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: I agree with you and support your change. Actually the main source, Joly, doesn't mention Jews at all. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:44, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
: I agree with you and support your change. Actually the main source, Joly, doesn't mention Jews at all. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 11:44, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
== Umberto Eco ==
It is weird that Eco's writings on this have been reduced not to ] but to ]. In the latter, the Protocols are just a minor aspect in a vast construct of conspiracies. The former is about the Protocols, narrated by the person who faked them. --] (]) 09:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
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Q: Why does the first sentence of the article say the Protocols is fraudulent? Aren't Misplaced Pages articles supposed to be neutral?
A: Misplaced Pages articles are absolutely required to maintain a neutral point of view. It has long been established that this work is fraudulent; its author(s) plagiarized a work of fiction, changing the original, Gentile characters into the secret leaders of a Jewish conspiracy. That plagiarized, fictional material is presented as though it were fact. That constitutes a literary fraud.
Q: So Misplaced Pages is saying that there was not a secret Jewish conspiracy to rule the world?
A: That is an entirely separate issue from the established fact that the Protocols is fraudulent.
Q: Why not let the reader decide for him- or herself whether the document is fraudulent or not? Doesn't drawing conclusions constitute WP:OR?
A: The article does not draw any conclusions; journalists drew the conclusion in 1921, and numerous scholars have reaffirmed it since then. It is not original research to state that the the Protocols is fraudulent; it is a well-established scholarly fact, as documented and sourced in the article. Numerous similar examples exist throughout Misplaced Pages; for example, the Hitler diaries are demonstrably fake, and the WP article says so—and sources it.
Q: But if the fraud is a well-established fact, why do some groups still assert that the Protocols is a genuine document?
A: It is difficult to answer why anyone still believes that the Protocols is a real document, other than to say that some people have beliefs that are simply immune to facts (Exhibit A: Holocaust deniers). To those whose minds are made up, it makes no difference that the Protocols have been debunked countless times—or that so much incriminating Holocaust evidence survives that a dozen museums can't hold it all.
Q: But you can't disprove the contention that a bunch of Jews got together sometime in the mid-19th century and plotted a conspiracy, can you?
A: As already stated, the conspiracy issue is not relevant to this article. But to answer your question, if one was told that the Moon is a giant ball of Gouda cheese covered with a foot-thick layer of dirt, it would be their responsibility to prove them.
This person is of no interest other than his association with the Protocols; let's clean up another of one Ludvikus' messes. --jpgordon15:48, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
I came to this article knowing nothing about the Protocols except it was an antisemitic hoax. I was astonished, and somewhat shocked, to find that the document had originally been written by Alexander Dumas, who I knew mostly from The Three Musketeers. I had had no idea he was antisemitic. Of course, when I read the article, I found that the infobox was completely misleading: what had been plagiarised was a scene about ‘the affair of the diamond necklace’. I do not think it likely that I am the only person who was misled in this way. I do think it likely that many people never read beyond the infobox and the introduction. So, many people will leave this article thinking that the author of The Three Musketeers wrote The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
I agree with you and support your change. Actually the main source, Joly, doesn't mention Jews at all. Zero11:44, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Umberto Eco
It is weird that Eco's writings on this have been reduced not to The Prague Cemetery but to Foucault's Pendulum. In the latter, the Protocols are just a minor aspect in a vast construct of conspiracies. The former is about the Protocols, narrated by the person who faked them. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
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