Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 10:05, 23 May 2020

This redirect was nominated at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion on 12 May 2020. The result of the discussion was retarget.

Obamagate - A hashtag in search of a scandal - A Fake scandal. Looks like Trump is trying to create the "birther movement" II Conspiracy Theory

I was surprised when I was unable to find a Misplaced Pages article concerning "Obamagate". Maybe it isn't history yet.

Obamagate is the Orange Donald's latest wackadoodle conspiracy theory concerning how President Obama has/is undermining the Orange Donald's presidency. Somehow he has included the Democrat Presidental Candidate Joe Biden as one of the conspirators.

The Orange Donald is trying to make Obamagate a "thing". President Obama, according to the Orange Donald, has "done some bad things"; however, the Orange Donald Trump has not actually explained what those illegal acts are. When asked what crimes Obama had committed, Trump told reporters: “Uh, Obamagate. It’s been going on for a long time. It’s been going on from before I even got elected, and it’s a disgrace that it happened.” Trump has called the alleged scandal “worse than Watergate”.

Philip Rucker of the Washington Post called Trump’s bluff. He asked, “In one of your Mother’s Day tweets, you appeared to accuse President Obama of ‘the biggest political crime in American history, by far’ — those were your words. What crime exactly are you accusing President Obama of committing, and do you believe the Justice Department should prosecute him?” The Orange Donald's reply was "You know what the crime is. The crime is very obvious to everybody. All you have to do is read the newspapers, except yours.”

It seems that the Orange Donald is being pretty lazy in laying the foundation for this conspiracy. But we have a President and his conspiracy theory, and madness enthuses.

Ned Price, a former CIA analyst who served as a National Security Council spokesman under Obama, said, “No one knows what ‘Obamagate’ is, and that includes President Trump. It’s a hashtag in search of a scandal. The only people it will galvanize are those already 1,000 percent behind Trump".

The Orange Donald is trying to recreate a new birther movement-type conspiracy theory to deflect attention from his failures to lead and botching, actually failed to respond rationally, his response to the COVID19 pandemic.

There is plenty of grist for the mill here. It seems that a Misplaced Pages article is needed to document this next chapter in Trump Conspiracy Theory Politics.

Osomite (talk) 20:58, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

This doesn't need it's own article. The only notable coverage of it from reliable sources is donnie and his cronies bumbling as they try to explain what it even is. All "obamagate" is, is an insignificant sidenote. It needs to be acknowledged on the list of conspiracy theories promoted by the orange traitor, but dedicating anything more to it than a single sentence and maybe two citations, is giving undue attention to right wing bullshit, which is not what Misplaced Pages is for. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 07:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

This seems more a puerile anti-Trump tirade than a genuine suggestion for editing changes. Can you provide citations that "Obamagate" is worthy of a standalone article? Zaathras (talk) 12:23, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Do you have anything legitimate to say, or are you just going to troll people here? 46.97.170.78 (talk) 13:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

If you need help comprehending my English-language statement, I'm sure there are resources out there for you to reference. Zaathras (talk) 18:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

This issue is not going to go away anytime soon especially in a US election year. Some of my colleagues are already saying Misplaced Pages is pure left wing propaganda. Now I know that is total nonsense but if you do not have an article or a redirect Misplaced Pages is in effect making a political statement and that is not good. Even the comments on this talk page are a little nasty and not balanced and not worthy of an encyclopedia in my humble opinion GRALISTAIR (talk) 12:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Anyone with a brain knows wikipedia is not left wing propaganda. It's not our fault that right wingers are so out of touch with reality that they whine about "left wing propaganda" any time they see something that doesn't try to push for false balance between verified facts and their crackpot conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and religious idiocy. Reality itself has a left wing bias. That says more about the right and the trump cult than us. Also, it doesn't matter how much we will hear about this conspiracy theory for the next few months, all wikipedia cares about is what the reliable sources say. Ajd mark my word, this is ALL we will hear from reliable sources on this subject: unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, pushed by trump cronies, that even they themselves don't know what it's about. End of story. The WalkAway campaign was supposedly a big deal during the midterms if you got your news from the right wing ideolical bubble on YouTube. Misplaced Pages only had a redirect to Russian web brigades, and I'm still not sure why it wasn't kept that way. The closest thing that "movement" has to coverage by a reliable source is a skit where Stephen Colbert exposes it as fake. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 13:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

And you have just made the point for me and not signed in so kept yourself anonymous. That does not bode well for a good encyclopedic entry in my humble opinion GRALISTAIR (talk) 16:42, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I presented actual points and you respond with an ad hominem. Is THAT your idea of what an encyclopedic entry shiuld be? 46.97.170.78 (talk) 16:53, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

You first sentence - "anyone with a brain" - you tell me who is engaging in ad hominems - I gave a point of view and actual talking points too and there is no ad hominem because you are anonymous GRALISTAIR (talk) 17:20, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Ignore the troll, they soon move on to shiner things in a moment. Zaathras (talk) 18:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Maybe everyone can refrain from bickering and focus on the topic at hand. I don't believe that Obamagate warrants a standalone article status. Although it seems similar to SpyGate, the SpyGate scandal appeared to have specific allegations. Granted, those specific allegations were revealed to be false, but they were specific, unlike the allegations made about Obamagate, which appear to be incredibly vague.DreamShuffler (talk) 23:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. It doesn't matter how much media coverage this will get, we can't just make up a new article for every separate conspiracy theory trump make up. That would just help validate him in the mind of his cultists and it's not what wikipedia is meant for. Just add it to the long list of other lies he made up. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 05:06, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good to me.DreamShuffler (talk) 22:20, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Nobody gives a damn about your opinions we want a real objective and neutral article so if you can't stop being a partisan biased hack and if you can't stop spewing your "Orange Man Bad" narrative then step aside and let the real editors do their jobs. --177.230.47.65 (talk) 21:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but neutrality means presenting facts in an unbiased way. Neutrality does NOT mean skewing facts to make trump appear less bad than he is. You want a real objective and neutral take on obamagate? Here it is: "A baseless conspiracy theory made up by trump that even he himself doesn't know what it's about". THAT is objective and neutral, because it's the plain, undiluted black amd white truth. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 05:50, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Please provide a page about Obamagate

Please provide a clear redirect to a section discussing the topic Obamagate or describe it in this page. I saw a tweet by Trump with this text "OBAMAGATE!", but I'm unable to find info about this on Misplaced Pages. This page redirects to a generic page that does not help. Jan Vlug (talk) 06:30, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages only documents what reliable sources say. In this case, it's trump just dropping the hashtag out there, then bubling like an idiot because even he doesn't know what it's about. There's an ongoing discussion, and it will hopefully settle with a redirect to a longer list of bullshit claims trump made, pr a list of alt right conspiracy theories, which is the only coverage it deserves. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 10:26, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Nobody gives a damn about your opinions we want a real objective and neutral article so if you can't stop being a partisan biased hack and if you can't stop spewing your "Orange Man Bad" narrative then step aside and let the real editors do their jobs. --177.230.47.65 (talk) 21:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Hate to break it to you buddy, but the real editors are with me on this. This is NOT conservapedia. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 04:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Veracity of statements by Donald Trump#Obamagate is where there is a current discussion about that article being a landing point for the Obamagate to redirect to. But IMO the proposed text of what would be included leans way too heavily towards legitimizing this non-factual accusation of the president. Weigh in over there of you have opinions one way or the other. Zaathras (talk) 13:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I love how this Liberally-biased Left-leaning Misplaced Pages follows the "Orange Man Bad" narrative

I love how when Comey was fired the Liberally-biased Left-leaning Misplaced Pages immediately opened a new article titled "Dismissal of James Comey" filling it with biased sources such as The New York Times (when I edited the article and tried to add a source from The Daily Mail it wouldn't allow me calling it "a dubious source") so they made it look like everyone was opposed to Comey's firing and even quoted a biased source calling it "Trump's Saturday night massacre" and claimed that the entire FBI service was very "demoralized" for Comey's firing; but of course they haven't opened an article titled "Obamagate" and I bet all FBI agents will be even more "demoralized" now when Comey is sent to jail for being a partisan incompetent hack and for being the worst FBI director since Edgar Hoover; now the discussion page for the Obamagate article is filled of other biased partisan users making idiotic statements such as that this is a "conspiracy theory" and calling President Trump the "orange man"; stop this tiresome and old Orange Man Bad narrative and do your jobs and be professional and create a real objective and neutral article, nobody cares about your opinions, if you can't do that then step aside. --177.230.47.65 (talk) 21:04, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

LOL, FTLOG. 177.230.47.65, you thinking that the Daily Mail is a "source" is laughable. Consensus has determined that the Daily Mail (including its online version, dailymail.co.uk) is generally unreliable, and its use as a reference is to be generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist. In an analysis of world news organizations, the Daily Mail falls into an area near the twilight zone described as "Skews Right to Hyper-Partisan Right" with "Extreme/Unfair Interpretations of the News".

If the Daily Mail is your news source (and other new organizations nearby in that twilight zone), I can understand why you have very strange views about the Orange Donald's current conspiracy theory about Obama.

How is it possible to create "a real objective and neutral article" about a loony toons batshit idea that was created by the Orange Donald for the sole purpose of misdirection from his massive failures as the Not Leader of the United States and feeding raw meat to his "base". He is showing how desperate he is. After all, what is another lie when he has lied over 18,000 times during his term of office (as of April 3) and counting.

177.230.47.65, you have had your say, you have not offered anything constructive. Nobody cares about your opinions, please step aside.

But if you won't step aside, please come out from hiding behind an IP address. Quit lurking about and trolling.

Osomite (talk) 02:40, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Stop threatening me I'll do whatever I want, I am a contributor of this Misplaced Pages, financially and editorially and I'll say what I want, especially since I have pro-Trump bias: I am a Mexican living Mexico. Oh and what's with that stupid childish comment about me "hiding"? Are you one of those keyboard warriors? Do you want my physical address? I live in Obregon, Sonora, send me a message and I'll send you my home address and the times of the day at which you'll find Mr. tough guy --177.230.47.65 (talk) 20:17, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

I have to agree. I love Misplaced Pages and contribute - also financially. I like balanced articles. If this gets glossed over its says that Misplaced Pages is not neutral and that everything POTUS Trump does or says is bad. That is clearly not true. Everyone, Please take your hate out of the equation. An objective neutral article is what is needed. GRALISTAIR (talk) 00:54, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

BTW I disagree with subtitle above I hate ( not love) how the everything Trump does is bad narrative. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be neutral. GRALISTAIR (talk) 00:57, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

That's pretty dishonest. Misplaced Pages is neutral. Presenting trump in an uncritical light is NOT. Much like civil rights, evolution, the shape of the earth and climate change, there are no "two sides" here. If you want a false balance between facts and hyperpartisan right wing propaganda, then wikipedia is not the place for you. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 04:33, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Read carefully. I did not say present Trump in an uncritical light - the opposite. Objective and neutral. I said Balance balance balance and keep hate out. Keep the article neutral GRALISTAIR (talk) 10:51, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

You have zero idea what neutrality is. Spoiler: it's not false balance. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 05:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

sounds like you are employed by T Roll Price GRALISTAIR (talk) 07:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Bias has no place on wikipedia. Any distortion of the facts with the intention of making trump look better than he is, is the definition of bias. If you cannot comprehend that much, you have no business making edits to the site. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 10:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Bias has no place on Misplaced Pages. Any distortion of the facts with the intention of making Donald Trump look bad, is the definition of bias. If you cannot comprehend that you have no business making edits to this site GRALISTAIR (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

No need to distort facts to make trump look bad. He's just like that by default. You're pulling a fox news style false balance bullshit here and it's unacceptable. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 04:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

No need to distort facts to make trump look bad. You're pulling a CNN Fake style false balance bullshit here and it's unacceptable. GRALISTAIR (talk) 12:49, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

CNN does not push for false balance narratives. Fox news on the other hand is infamous for treating right wing propaganda and factual information like they're two sides of the argument and the truth is in the middle. No, the truth is what's supported by verifiable facts. And facts are NOT on trump's side. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 18:47, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

CNN does push for false balance narratives. It spent 3 years on the false Russian hoax not supported by verifiable facts. Fox news on the other hand is famous for being balanced like there are two sides of the argument and the truth is in the middle. No, the truth is not what CNN does. GRALISTAIR (talk) 20:57, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

"False russian hoax". Yeah right. Tell me, have you ACTUALLY read the Mueller report, or are you just mindlessly parroting whatever mindless propaganda Faux Entertainment is spewing on a regular basis. CNN is a reliable source which reports on verified facts that have been confirmed by independent fact checkers. Faux Entertainment on the other hand is a right wing propaganda channel. I understand if that's a difficult idea for you to digest. Independent press is a concept that right wingers have trouble comprehending. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 13:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

You are correct black is white GRALISTAIR (talk) 15:17, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

GRAILSTAIR. Another discussion where you did nothing but call me a troll has already been locked, and this will soon be as well. You're not helping yourself with your persistent antagonism. You're only making yourself look bad. You said it yourself that you're going to leave wikipedia so take your own advice and leave. Nobody here liles your trolling, or your disruptive behavior. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 04:42, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Obamagate confusion - what is it?

Misplaced Pages really need something on this. Yesterday Barr said: “Whatever their (Obama, Biden) level of involvement, based on the information I have today, I don’t expect Mr. Durham’s work will lead to a criminal investigation of either man. Our concern over potential criminality is focused on others.” If "the crime is very obvious to everybody" why do Barr fail to see it? If Obamagate is, Obama being responsible for an administration that was leaking confidential information to the press, that is an accusation I can understand, but is that all? Misplaced Pages really need some kind of timeline showing who said what when. Obamagate seems (to me) to be an election-campaign strategy more than an accusation of a crime commited. Being neutral about Trump is practically impossible (even here in Europe), but getting the timeline right should be possible regardless of any bias. Spygate is, in my opinion, not the same as Obamagate. Markuswestermoen (talk) 10:35, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry but in case it isn't painfully obvious, there is nothing to Obamagate besides trump making stuff up. Misplaced Pages will report on what the reliable sources say and what reliable sources say is that neither trump, nor his cronies have the faintest clue what Obamagate is supposed to be about. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 12:23, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Of course it is fake, the voluminous sources bear that out, but it's still ok to have a redirect or maybe even an article about it. Birtherism was fake, and its article is not at all presenting the matter as truth, but rather (and factually), that it was a racism-tinged conspiracy theory. Zaathras (talk) 23:55, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Obamagate is here to stay according to the Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/18/obamagate-is-all-about-your-definition-freedom/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by GRALISTAIR (talk • contribs)

Assume you meant "here to stay" ? Zaathras (talk) 23:53, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Well spotted- thank you GRALISTAIR (talk) 02:12, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages co-founder Larry Sanger just spoke out on his blog on bias in Trump-related articles

“Meanwhile, as you can imagine, the idea that the Donald Trump article is neutral is a joke. Just for example, there are 5,224 none-too-flattering words in the ‘Presidency’ section. By contrast, the following ‘Public Profile’ (which the Obama article entirely lacks), ‘Investigations,’ and ‘Impeachment’ sections are unrelentingly negative, and together add up to some 4,545 words—in other words, the controversy sections are almost as long as the sections about his presidency,” Sanger explains. “Common words in the article are ‘false’ and ‘falsely’ (46 instances): Misplaced Pages frequently asserts, in its own voice, that many of Trump’s statements are ‘false.’ Well, perhaps they are. But even if they are, it is not exactly neutral for an encyclopedia article to say so, especially without attribution. You might approve of Misplaced Pages describing Trump’s incorrect statements as ‘false,’ very well; but then you must admit that you no longer support a policy of neutrality on Misplaced Pages.”

Is this relevant to the arguably biased redirect of this (non-)article? Narssarssuaq (talk) 19:49, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

All I can say without hesitation, this Misplaced Pages page/lack of has really opened my eyes. I will no longer be donating financially to Misplaced Pages. Really sad about it as I still think on balance it is a valuable resource. Probably won’t write anymore articles either- very sad. GRALISTAIR (talk) 22:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

So we've learned here that this Sanger guy is a Trumpkin, and that your contributions won't be missed. Oh well. Zaathras (talk) 23:37, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

As you say no big loss. See you all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GRALISTAIR (talk • contribs)

Wonderful. A wikipedia co-founder of all people demanding false balance just to confirm his own political bias. The reason why there are so many "negative words" is because that is what reliable sources tell us. If trump lies, and reliable sources fact check him and expose him as a liar, then Misplaced Pages will convey that information. What is Larry Sanger expecting here? That the independent fact checking be counterbalanced by lies from pro trump propaganda outlets? This is absurd. I'm not even a regular user and I understand Misplaced Pages's policies better than it's own co-founder? Let's he real here. He's proposing the same bullshit that he claims ruined the site. He left the project over 10 years ago. He has no authority on this issue, or any other issue for that matter and his word carries no weight. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 04:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Despite the weird cult of personality around him, Sanger is really as much a Wiki "founder" as Ronald Wayne was of Apple, he may have been present early, but soon left and contributions amounted to very little in the end. The invoking of this person's name is a naked appeal to authority and should really be ignored henceforth. Zaathras (talk) 12:44, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

That's more or less what I was thinking too. Glad we all agree, but it makes me wonder how many other trump cultists are hiding among the regular contributors. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 14:25, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

They have to hide, Misplaced Pages has no Trump cult. Not even a Trump statue or Trump grove. If you build these, some will come. Heed my words, mortal, for I am a herald of the great unknown! Lead thy enemy not into the void, but into thy honeypot so that they may be held and countable. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:03, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Are you going to actually say something useful? 46.97.170.78 (talk) 03:48, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm...Larry Sanger's opinion is not relevant to the arguably biased redirect of this (non-)article. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:35, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

The redirect makes perfect sense. Trump lies every time he opens his mouth. If wikipedia has a separate article for every single one of his lies, we may as well create a separate wiki project just dedicated to exposing and debunking the orange buffoon. And I'm sure he and his worshippers would love that kind of attention because it would count as "owning the libs". Obamagate is yet another insignificant conspiracy theory among insignificant conspiracy theories pushed by trump and it needs to be treated as such. Any more credit to him and the right wing propaganda machine and we'd be enabling their lies. 46.97.170.78 (talk) 10:05, 23 May 2020 (UTC)