Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 04:32, 29 July 2020

• WP:ANI
• WP:AN/I

This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Allowing page movers to enable two-factor authentication
• Rewriting the guideline Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

Overly-long title shortened

Original title: "Repeated Warnings on My Talk Page From Other Editors - For Reasons Which Seem Either Ambiguous or Petty/Innocuous (not fully explained) Please Block ME FROM EDITING or Let Them Know to be Civil and Polite"

I am getting scolded and reprimanded on my talk page, I've got two warnings now. I do not clearly see why, specifically what rules are to be followed (that I'm not following), I'm not being given any opportunity to make amends, or apologize, and I'm feeling like it's harassment. To be clear, these problems are coming from several other editors, making me doubt that it's them, I have to admit, it is probably me, but they won't take the time nor do they have the wherewithal to make it clear why it's wrong, what it is, how to correct it. From my perspective I do not as yet clearly see how I'm out of line. Please review my situation, either BLOCK ME ENTIRELY from Misplaced Pages - since I'm such a horrible editor and have used up so many other editors' precious time and patience, or please let the other editors know that I'm trying my best and to desist, I'm losing my composure. When I go to the Teahouse, one of the editors complains continually, and tells me my entries are too long, and I suppose they're too hard to read perhaps? I don't know. The editor advised me to stay away from the Teahouse and not spend time there. This editor keeps writing about losing his patience with me. Another editor writes in ambiguous aphorisms that I'm unable to clearly understand, and I'm really not that experienced at this (Misplaced Pages). I've been trying to clear some things through the talk pages, and the feedback is just getting derailed and hijacked by other editors, who fail to directly respond to my entreaties. Then, they are complaining that I'm spending all my editing time in the talk pages and not on an article - when the discussion on the talk pages have stultified, without conclusion. So instead of continuously warning me, please do this. Cut me off completely from Misplaced Pages. Or, please keep these people from treating me so coldly, if that's in any way possible. If you think the answer is to set certain pages off limits to me, I'm not comfortable with that, I'd rather be an equal editor (from my IP address) I don't feel comfortable "staying away" from pages, just because other editors are too tired to directly respond to me or read my entreaties and stay on track with me. That's not a good reason for me to "stay away" from a page's talk section. If I were personally attacking or editing out other people's topics or obviously vandalizing pages, then, that would make sense, but this is not what is going on at all. If possible would a disinterested party get into contact with me - and if it means more scolding then PLEASE just BLOCK my IP and have done with it. (I am not comfortable mentioning names yet, maybe this is just me over reacting, I did read the header that says I need to inform the other editors and provide links; if you aren't blocking me after reading this & if you think I need to get the links and inform the other editors, then let me know, I see no reason that I shouldn't, but I'm not experienced at Misplaced Pages and I don't even know if this is the right place for this message - AGAIN-I HAVE BEEN WARNED NOT TO USE THE TEAHOUSE ANYMORE). Thanks for reading this, if you've gotten this far. I hope you don't freeze out my IP, but if you do, then please continue to make Misplaced Pages a great website and keep up the good work. No hard feelings. בס״ד 172.250.237.36 (talk) 22:59, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Oy vey, בס״ד. You flood the article talk pages with multiple, lengthy comments —like the above, for example, with it's excessive one-paragraph wall of text and excessive section header— without acquainting yourself with the basics, still. Yes, there is a limit to our collective patience. And still, you have not been sanctioned, which is a testament to the project's welcoming nature. El_C 23:17, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

בס״ד is not their name, it's part of their signature. _signed, Rosguill 23:38, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm aware. And yet it helps me remember, because... words. El_C 23:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I thought that was a double entendre joke, "Oy vey, with the help of Heaven", and I laughed. Levivich  03:01, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

It can be two things! El_C 11:28, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Why are you having fun at someone else's expense, El C and Levivich? Bus stop (talk) 14:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm friendly with בס״ד. They have not shown they take offense to the nickname so far throughout multiple encounters. It's not making fun of them, it's lightening up an unfortunate situation. El_C 14:11, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

• If 172.250.237.36 wants to stop editing Misplaced Pages, then 172.250.237.36 should just stop editing Misplaced Pages. If 172.250.237.36, for reasons many of us will understand, can't stop themself from coming here, then a short block might be helpful in breaking the habit. Otherwise I see no need for administrative action. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:41, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
• Blocked for 72 hours for persistently wasting the time and patience of constructive editors, which is Misplaced Pages's most precious resource. I know I'm like a broken record with the "precious resource" thing. Bishonen | tålk 11:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC).
  • In my opinion 172.250.237.36 was treated shabbily by very experienced editors long before they were blocked. Bus stop (talk) 21:13, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
    • It's a pity then that you weren't there weeks ago to help them along, and that so many others wasted so much of their time--and getting it all wrong, apparently. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
      • Yes, the clubbiness of "regulars" leave little room for newcomers to fit in. Bus stop (talk) 04:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
        • @Bus stop: I looked at the IP talk page and saw a lot of FORUM stuff, but also saw they were having a tough time navigating the waters. Do you have any diffs where they were treated shabbily? I would like to assist this IP if it is worth it, although they do have a TLDR habit. Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 06:05, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
          • Bison X—my hope is that experienced editors will stop trying to frustrate the efforts of inexperienced editors. Misplaced Pages is not about winning. Bus stop (talk) 20:14, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
            • No, Misplaced Pages is about building an encyclopedia. How did the IP help to do that? Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
              • You are asking: how did they help to build the encyclopedia? One of many examples: User talk:Bus stop#Attempted Arrest Errors - Talk Item Updated. Constructive suggestions help to build the encyclopedia. In my opinion experienced editors lend a helping hand to inexperienced editors. They do so by taking the inexperienced editor's suggestions seriously and demonstrating the guidelines that apply to edits that are being contemplated. Bus stop (talk) 02:14, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
• I sympathize with new users struggling to find their bearings, but aggressively asserting oneself in a variety of contentious articles and flooding talk pages with spammy forum-y or bludgeon-y or tldr posts is disrutpive, it wastes editors' time and inhibits constructive communication on the talk page. It's all the worse if you're a new user who doesn't know what they're doing. This IP may not have been treated the best but looking at their talk page many editors spent a significant amount of time trying to coach them and help set them on the right path. Really the effort people have been putting into this user is a bit absurd when there's no indication that any of it is getting through to them. Good block. ~Swarm~ 05:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Persistent disruptive editing by User:Browniesandicecreamcake

• Browniesandicecreamcake (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 108.46.228.135 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has been repeatedly changing the infobox photos of prominent US politicians without seeking consensus over several months. They've been warned many times by several users, and have always had their edits reverted. They've been blocked twice by BD2412 for this. They've apologized for their actions on their talk page but have resumed identical disruptive editing regardless. I thought they'd finally stopped, but after a period of abstaining from this behavior, they changed Hillary Clinton's photo at both 2016 United States presidential election and Hillary Clinton today; they've been warned about those exact changes before, which is thoroughly documented on their talk page. Here's a list of diffs of their photo-changing edits: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . — Tartan357   00:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• A minimum six-month prohibition on image changes is needed, with an automatic indef ban for any violation. The editor will remain free to make talk page proposals for image changes (within reason), but any consensus for a change must be carried out by someone else. BD2412 T 00:37, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Note: They've very likely been editing logged-out, too, which includes photo changes. The IP apparently suspected by S0091 implicitly acknowledged this on their talk page. I don't think there's CU evidence, but the evidence around editing behavior, language, and timing of edits is about as solid as it gets. The IP was warned repeatedly about editing logged-out, and, at one point, was blocked by Ponyo for adding poorly-sourced content. I don't know if this is actionable without an SPI, but it seems relevant to the discussion. — Tartan357   01:09, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• User:BD2412, I appreciate your attitude, which is much more gentle than mine. Drmies (talk) 01:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I'd like to think that we can nudge people towards productivity, but I wouldn't be steadfastly opposed to a harder line, if the community feels one is warranted. BD2412 T 01:34, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree, and support a block limited to image changes. Another disruptive feature of their editing is their overuse of the minor edit feature, but perhaps that can be addressed separately. I get the impression that they are still acting in good faith and legitimately don't understand the problems with their editing; they appear to be trying to follow advice, albeit poorly. For example, they've started trying to sign posts, but are putting the tildes in their edit summaries. They've also started leaving comments on talk pages but are still making changes before those comments even receive replies. Recently, they've been putting "my apologies" at the beginning of their edit summaries, which I judge as a misguided attempt to exercise caution. Ultimately, disruption is disruption regardless of intent, though, and it's becoming quite burdensome to undo their changes. I hate to say it, but this editor might have a WP:CIR problem. I'd support any response stopping the disruption while allowing them to contribute constructively in some fashion. — Tartan357   04:37, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Looking through their edit history again, I've decided to strike my above comment about them editing in good faith. They've been edit-warring heavily, using the minor edit feature for virtually all their edits and reverting anyone who removes their content, all without edit summaries. Particularly, they seem to be doing this a lot at pages related to The X Factor: . It seems like most of this user's contributions are disruptive, and I think a block limited to image changes would not be adequate to prevent further disruption. — Tartan357   07:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Tartan357. The vast majority of their edits have been reverted, both under their registered account and IP, which was blocked by Ponyo for three months . They have persistently reverted back to their preferred version without discussion as shown in the most recent edits , , , , even though they were provided guidance about gaining consensus by Tartan here and by BD2412 here along with being blocked twice but have yet to take guidance offered on board. The same is true for using edit summaries. I think they have already been provided enough rope but unfortunately have not shown they are willing to change their disruptive editing. S0091 (talk) 15:21, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

This account was created on April 18. See all the past warnings at User talk:Browniesandicecreamcake. Their response to the warnings has been inadequate. The next step is probably an indef block. EdJohnston (talk) 01:05, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

• I see they've picked up their edit-warring again and are simply ignoring this ANI case: . How much longer are we going to let this persist? — Tartan357   19:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Ritchie92

• Ritchie92 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Corriebertus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• European migrant crisis (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Editor Ritchie92 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (Rt) to my idea is disturbing and poisoning a good, constructive, respectful working atmosphere on page European migrant crisis by incessant insults and personal attacks on me there. I've asked him on his talk page, on 14 June 2020 and 1 July, to stop with such insults and personal attacking, but so far he denies committing them, so I'd like a statement now from the Misplaced Pages moderators, telling him to stop such attacks.

1. Rt’s personal attacks on me started on Talk:European migrant crisis on 27 March 2020(14:30) where he accuses me of being “really dishonest” for removing certain reference sources from the article. But there’s nothing dishonest in that removing edit: it was openly, clearly and honestly presented and motivated in my edit summary 27March and I even repeated that removal motivation in my opening statement in the talk section (‘Requested move 27 March 2020’), to give colleagues full and fair opportunity to disagree and ofcourse to revert. Indeed, minutes before 27March14:30, Rt had reverted my edit in the article (though without refuting any of my given motivating arguments for it); but simply disagreeing with my stated opinion and motivated edit is no ground to call someone "dishonest", which therefore is an unacceptable personal attack.
2. The next incident occurred when I had placed a tag ‘citation needed’ on 4 June in the lead of ‘European migrant crisis’, including some thoughts about possible meanings of the word ‘crisis’. Instead of solving the problem the tag was signalling, Rt started this talk section, linking to my placed tag, apparently to attack me for expressing those thoughts about the word ‘crisis’. Rt stated that I “kept going with their argument” about the word crisis “not being defined as "a period (of time)"”, a denigrating (and distorted) representation of either my thoughts about the word crisis or my tag’s request for a citation. Rt thus suggested that I (annoyingly) restarted an ‘argument’ that had been discussed before, but why then didn’t he tell where that presumed earlier discussion took place? Nevertheless, he clearly also wanted to ‘prove’ that my (supposed) ‘argument’ or opinion was wrong (by citing dictionaries). So, his clear message in that posting altogether was: 'I, Rt, know meanings to the word ‘crisis’ that Cb apparently doesn’t know; this ignorance of Cb annoys me; and Cb should not hold arguments on Misplaced Pages that annoy Rt'. That, in its uncorroborated suggestion that Cb is abusing Misplaced Pages with improper (repeated) ‘arguments’, is a personal attack.
3. The next attack occurred on 13 June in an edit summary of Rt’s, (again) in article 'European migrant crisis', directly after three motivated edits of mine. Apparently, Rt objected against a new subsection header which I had motivatedly introduced in the course of further updates in the same section (which Rt apparently did not disapprove of). Such simple editing disagreements are everyday’s practice in Misplaced Pages articles, in fact such disagreements and further improving of each other's work on the basis of (respectful!) arguing and reasoning are the very basis and strength of the unique project that the Misplaced Pages (interactive encyclopedia) is or wants to be. So it's contradictory, at odds with Misplaced Pages philosophy, but above all unfounded, insulting and a respectless personal attack, for Rt to say in his edit summary 13 June that the colleague (Cb) who made the previous three edits has "no clue of what and how to write on Misplaced Pages", at the same time revert only part of those three ('clueless'!?) edits, for no more reason than a simple disagreement over one edit.
4. The comment “(…) and let's not even talk about the writing style”, on 4 June, on Rt's talk page against me, where I had politely tried to address him about what I felt as his insulting behaviour (which he denied having committed), is ofcourse yet another insult and personal attack on me. --Corriebertus (talk) 16:36, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• This is really hard to read, @Corriebertus: can you please gist this, and just point out the diffs where you believe you have been personally attacked (the first one is not a PA). Also, you might think Rt and Cb are proper short forms but it's just harder to keep track of, too short that it mixes with the wall of text that you posted. --qedk (t 愛 c) 19:49, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• The June 14 exchange was uncivil, the user was appropriately warned for it, and apologized. The July 1st exchange on the other hand is a bit of a tendentious incident coming from the OP. The user was bringing up an incident from nearly a month earlier, in which nothing problematic or uncivil was even said. There's not bringing up past mistakes, and then there's going out of your way to frivolously dig up some harmless incident and then label them as disruptive, even though they're not. Based on the report and links here, I see a problematic exchange which the user has already apologized for, and a bunch of irrelevant nonsense that do not support any of the accusations that have been made. From what I see, the underlying content dispute is that the OP doesn't think "migrant crisis" is appropriate terminology, while the reported user has explained that it is, based on the definitions of what a "crisis" is. This appears to be a bad faith attempt to eliminate an opponent without sufficient cause, based on petty behavioral objections. Not impressed right now. More likely to BOOMERANG the OP than to action the reported user. ~Swarm~ 05:17, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I would agree that if anything, this should be a boomerang. The addition of the cn tag on the "crisis" part of the title after an RM had resulted in the title being kept is verging on disruptive editing. Can fully understand why Ritchie would be frustrated in having to deal with this. It's also unclear why this has only been brought here now, given that Ritchie has not engaged with this topic for over three weeks. Number 57 22:09, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
    • Hi, I share your feeling of confusion at the fact that the OP is still stuck on this matter. It looks like they got great offense by some of my (harsher) statements, also in edit summaries. It is true that some of them were the fruit of my frustration at constantly repairing and copy-editing the (in my opinion – dubious) content that the OP has been adding to the European migrant crisis article. However I apologized to the OP for my reaction already on my talk page, and I thought that was the end of it. Instead the OP kept replying once every one or two weeks, repeating over and over about my incivility, and I don't think that was going to bring anywhere, so I have not been engaging in this discussion and I don't think I should have. --Ritchie92 (talk) 08:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Coderdaddy1369 launching personal attacks

• Coderdaddy1369 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Some user may be familiar of Coderdaddy1369, as they have been blocked thrice for multiple reasons, including disruptive editing and personal attacks. Their talk is full of warnings for disruptive editing and personal attacks. Today, following a content dispute at East Bengal F.C., they went to User talk:ArnabSaha and left an extremely rude comment telling ArnabSaha: I understand you are mentally unstable, so leave the editing to us., which I have reverted. This editor clearly has nothing to contribute to the encyclopaedia and I suggest blocking them per WP:NOTHERE and WP:PA. — Yours, Berrely • ∕_Contribs 19:32, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• I blocked them for a month, leaving this thread open to see if an indef might be more warranted, seems borderline WP:NOTHERE to me (am I going too soft... hmm...) --qedk (t 愛 c) 19:45, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Agreed. It was a very rude comment. They have been doing this since they joined as Berrely has pointed out along with disruptive editing with nothing else to contribute. Clearly there is no room for improvement. I suggest an indefinite block. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 19:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Went nearly 2 years between blocks, but this behavior is beyond the Pale. They need to understand that this is unacceptable and that an indefinite duration block is certainly justified now. They should regard this as a last chance. They edit so infrequently that they mightn't notice a 1 month block. I might lengthen it, but we have time to decide. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 03:28, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

  To be fair, all the warnings I see are from ArnabSaha over yesterday's edit warring. A bit of overkill on the warnings there. So probably not much more to do here. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

95.145.94.68

An IP alerted me to another possible IP Vandal and potential disrespectful/rude behaviour towards the administrators (who for the record has not recieved four warnings) at my talk page:

"Hello Good sir PTO. Here’s the issue I’m talking about. User Special:Contributions/95.145.94.68 is continuously vandalises the pages of coronation street characters list and the Emmerdale characters list. Can somebody please ban him? He’s also swearing at June Gloom and bullying him and other administrators if they’ve delete his vandalism, using threatening behaviour, can you get somebody to take care of him please? Check out what he’s doing 2A02:C7F:5063:FA00:10CF:E997:1DA:DBDF(talk) 21:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)"

Thanks, P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 22:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC).

Note that this IP was reported to WP:AIV here , but due to a backlog, it was removed by a bot for being stale. As one of the editors who has been targeted by them, some action would be most welcome. - JuneGloom07 Talk 17:42, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Request help with article consistently being vandalized

This SPA has been vandalizing the article Nahko and Medicine for the People. Requesting ban, or perhaps partial protection of the article due to the contentiousness of the allegations recently made against Nahko and his bandmates. Linking SPA contributions:https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/2604:6000:140F:802C:B10C:D9B5:2260:3E47 werewolf (talk) 05:24, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Have you really been editing since 2007? The IP user is removing too much content and proving a point, but the real focus of their complaint is the recently inserted unsourced allegations paragraph. Unproven allegations are one thing, which should always be treated with a great deal of caution, but unsourced allegations of this nature are simply always unacceptable. I've therefore removed the paragraph, and deleted it from the history, and taken no action against the other user. -- zzuuzz 05:47, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Wow, zzuuzz, that was a lot of sifting. Weel done. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

You should see what I can achieve after I've had some morning coffee, and I'm not on a wikibreak. And if any of you are still not using WP:POPUPS, you might want to. So anyway, before anyone hastily closes this, at this time there remains on the talk page some commentary on the allegations. There's a lot of Facebooking going on, including by the subject, but I don't see a whole lot else... this is probably one of those situations where some experienced eyes will come in useful. -- zzuuzz 09:37, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I think that section should be blanked. We are not FaceBook and FaceBook posturing is no substitute for for WP:RS. WP:BLP applies on talk pages as well as anywhere else. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:50, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

zzuuzz You could have said the same thing without resorting to ad hominems. There is never any call for being a jerk to other users simply for being unaware of something or making a mistake. Get off your high horse. werewolf (talk) 15:09, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Calling for a ban of someone with a possibly legitimate grievance is somewhat jerkish too, don't you think?--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 15:47, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

No, it isn't. 1. Vandalizing an article shouldn't be a behaviour we condone. I'm surprised to see a complete lack of condemnation of this action here among administrators. 2. Is the grievance legitimate? The allegations have in fact been made, a cursory google search proves this. Whether or not the allegations are true is a separate matter, and the article never stated that they were. 3. Why would calling for the ban of an article vandalizer be jerkish? Mistaken or misinformed, sure, but jerkish? Perhaps you are using the wrong word. 4. According to your logic, it would seem that one "jerkish" action calls for a "jerkish" reaction. An eye for an eye, or perhaps stooping down to the level of another jerk. Is that really a position you wish to stand by? werewolf (talk) 16:51, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Please realise that real-world allegations of such conduct are more important than any local Misplaced Pages rules about vandalism. If such allegations are not supported by reliable sources as being correct then we shouldn't be repeating them. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Maybe we can refrain from jerk language. A lack of condemnation for doing the right thing (and you agree this is the right thing, right?) is not the same as condoning the way it was achieved. Secretly though, I admire their perseverance. It would have been better all round if they were able to successfully and tidily remove the paragraph in good faith and in accordance with policies, as they attempted to do, without being reverted as a common vandal. Like it or not, whichever horse I'm sitting on, that reversion was plain wrong and not expected from an experienced editor. And bottom line, with this inappropriate paragraph gone, I'd expect no more editing from this IP: good, bad, or questionable. -- zzuuzz 20:08, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I understand the point being made. I perceived the user's actions as vandalism since the allegations have indeed been made and they were attempting to conceal this fact from the article. My mistake for not realizing that this shouldn't be included in the article if the allegations aren't strongly supported. I stand by what I said earlier, however, that your language wasn't necessary. You could have let me know that I had blundered without necessarily making me feel stupid or inexperienced. werewolf (talk) 04:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Date changing IP Vandal

23.169.64.11 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I have seen this behavior pattern before but don't remember where. LTA? --Guy Macon (talk) 18:48, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Don't know of any long term abuse, but another IPv6 made similar edits... albeit a bit different. Here are there contributions. Another Ipv4 made edits right before that. Granted, these were a year ago, but it might help in figuring out who it is. I'll look through some SPIs and LTAs and see what I find. Ghinga7 (talk) 19:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The /21 is all bad: Special:Contributions/23.169.64.0/21. Eagle Mountain, Utah. Binksternet (talk) 20:01, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I blocked Special:Contributions/23.169.64.0/21 for three months after seeing a bunch of arbitrary date changing. The IPv6 user was two edit on 6 April 2020 so I took no action there. Johnuniq (talk) 04:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Broken-backed camel (the straw that ...)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Porterjoh left a Level 4 warning on my talk page over a justified and appropriate (but fairly insignificant) edit I made regarding Republic of Karelia (see ). This did not merit a Level 4 warning -- it is a complete abuse of process, discretion, and of Misplaced Pages's warning protocols (see , ). As @Porterjoh, who does not deign to leave edit summaries or explanations, has refused to contact me regarding the above, I am leveling my complaint here. My talk page should not have become a multicoloured dartboard for missives from Wikipedian patrollers who clearly have trouble distinguishing between appropriate and inappropriate edits. Going now to leave {{subst:ANI-notice}} now on his or her talkpage. 2604: 2000: EFC0: 12: 7922: 1B66: 98F2: E6E1 (talk) 21: 12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Your removal of a redlink from a "see also" section is certainly not vandalism and does not merit a threat of blocking. I cannot speak for Porterjoh, but certainly it can become easy for editors using Huggle to see a user with recent warnings make a deletion with a nonspecific edit summary ("c/e") and assume the worst without checking the previous version. Usually when I delete a redlink like that, my edit summary is something like "page does not exist" or "redlink. " In the meantime, Porterjoh does owe an explanation for their warning. Ideally this could be sorted out on user talk pages, without admin involvement necessary. --Jprg1966 21: 34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I made a huge mistake. Was my first time editing for a while. Apology posted on talk page. Porterjoh (talk) 11:48, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Appealing my topic ban

User is acting as a bully against genealogies of monarchies

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have *NEVER* seen such a bias on Misplaced Pages. User:Agricolae is *single-handedly* deleting swaths of information and has already been reverted and given notices by other people several times for the same reasons.

The deletions in question involve a "questionable source" for which there is a special page dedicated to that debate, and where it is confirmed by consensus albeit admitting some "uncertainty" to be a still "valid" source: the talk page of Template:Medieval Lands by Charles Cawley.

I am dismayed at all of the information that has been removed. Here are some examples:

• The entire recent contributions page of this user is basically deletion (big bytes in red font) on similar topics, usually again pertaining to the Medieval Lands by Charles Cawley source.
• Franks:
• Medici family tree:
• House of Plantagenet:
• William the Conqueror's family tree: diff (major link removed, this is *definitely* not acceptable for an experienced Misplaced Pages editor)
• History of the English line of succession: diff (The edit summary that was given for this diff is to be honest, ridiculous.)
• Mercia (pre-English kingdom) family tree: file history

Proposal: Template:Medieval Lands by Charles Cawley has been used as a source on Misplaced Pages for a long time and if there are objections it must be brought up on its talk page because the consensus has already been reached in the past and unless it is formally changed then these behaviors are unacceptable. The user should no longer engage in such disruptive editing at the consequence of a community topic ban on the genealogies of monarchies.

Altanner1991 (talk) 04:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

This is absurd. The "William the Conqueror's family tree" complaint relates to a diff from 2012, and removes a link which at the time pointed to Pope Callixtus II, who was a different person than mentioned on the family tree. If a correct, 8-year old diff is what the complainant feels is "*definitely* not acceptable" and worth our time at ANI, it is their judgment I question. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:13, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

After more examination, this seems to be a content dispute over whether Otto I is a descendant of Louis the Pious, which Altanner1991 is trying to win by arguing a behavior dispute. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:25, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Not at all. Altanner1991 (talk) 04:29, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Can you show where consensus was reached that Medieval Lands was a reliable source and you have informed the editor about this? If not, it is a content dispute and should be discussed at RSN. I can't see anything at RSN where it is declared reliable and in fact I voted against it at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 115#Medieval Lands by Charles Cawley about 8 years ago. TFD (talk) 04:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Indeed the noticeboard had concluded the source was unreliable but the Cawley talk page (from later in 2012) had ended with supporters. Altanner1991 (talk) 05:29, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

User:THE COLOSSAL GALAXY NAMED IC1101

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This user is clearly WP:NOTHERE: they have mostly made edits to their sandbox and userpage (both of which are currently tagged with U5 and may be deleted shortly) and to talk pages (disruptively) as at Talk:List of largest stars. Some example replies:

• "Whoa! WOH G64 is 2,100 solar radii??? and HV 888 only 1,300??? LOL! Sam Halls will be embarrassed seeing this ! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Let's Discuss and mock him so he will be forced to Redo his article ! --THE COLOSSAL GALAXY NAMED IC1101 (talk) 14:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)"
• "Also mine.I already exceeded 300 + edits, and made a list of Users whom I surpassed in terms of Edit Numbers. I have something to tell, Reply To the comment about SpaceImplorerExplorer and an IP User who does not like extreme numbers and how they should appreciate the extremities of the universe In #RX Telescopii. — Preceding unsigned comment added by THE COLOSSAL GALAXY NAMED IC1101 (talk • contribs) 08:41, 23 July 2020 (UTC)"
• "What star is that? is it RHI84 10-683 ??????? Oh My GOSH ! STEPHENSON 2-18 IS ABOUT TO LOOSE ITS TITLE AGAIN TO AN INACCURATE STAR ! I CAN'T HANDLE THIS ANYMORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  I'm not angry.--THE COLOSSAL GALAXY NAMED IC1101 (talk) 07:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)"

There's lots more on that talk page which could be helpful in this discussion. My conclusion is that this user is WP:NOTHERE and is misusing Misplaced Pages as a forum (at least to an extent). There are also WP:CIR issues here. JavaHurricane 04:39, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

What? Don't threaten Me... If yoyu do I will become toxic... Don't agitate me... I will become VERY mad. --THE COLOSSAL GALAXY NAMED IC1101 (talk) 04:44, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I believe the above reply (which I consider a threat) perfectly demonstrates my point. See also and for more. JavaHurricane 04:50, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Im Going to delete Everything. BYE. --THE COLOSSAL GALAXY NAMED IC1101 (talk) 06:36, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Their replies here really tell me everything I need to know...but looking at their contribs its mostly garbage. I have NOTHERE'd them, they are welcome to format a reasonable unblock request, but I'm not holding out hope. CaptainEek ⚓ 06:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Legal threats from 2020Editor

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2020Editor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Legal threat and here. I dropped them a warning. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 00:23, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

lblocked. I just don't think a warning is enough, in this case. If they categorically withdraw the legal threat, they may be unblocked. El_C 00:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Noting Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Dubai knowsitsall --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Editor without willingness to learn

The editor The kan123 has repeatedly added endorsements of living people to the article List of Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign endorsements. I have given then 2 warnings on their talk page and editor MelbourneStar gave them 3 warnings. The my continued to edit without responding except by saying “ you’re annoyingly” in response to my most recent warning where I had to revert two of their edits. I have encouraged them and given them links to the tea house, the endorsement page, as well as my talk page where I offered to help. It also appears that they misused their user page as it was deleted with a warning stating that they did not follow Misplaced Pages guidelines. While this editor seemed to make one or two genuine edits, they do not seem willing to learn/improve and their uncivility makes me believe they are not here to help the project of Misplaced Pages. Any thoughts? Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 00:57, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

The user has just three edits outside of that article, and they border on bad-faith edits (see , ). I also believe this user is not here to build an encyclopedia. The kan123, I strongly recommend politely and patiently explaining your actions here, because refusing to talk to other editors except to call them annoying will not get you far. --Jprg1966 03:28, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Edit: @Lima Bean Farmer:, please amend your notification of the user. It says the discussion is at AN, not ANI. --Jprg1966 03:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I completely concur with Lima Bean Farmer and Jprg1966; editor seems unwilling to get the point and at the very least, read WP:ENDORSE which is crystal clear -- let alone describe their edits in an edit summary or to adequately respond to queries. Labeling a good faith editor as "annoying" is the icing on the cake. If The kan123 is unable/unwilling to adequately respond to this, I too, believe they are not here to build an encyclopedia - collaborative or otherwise. Regards, —MelbourneStar☆ 04:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I took a look at the deleted userpage. It turns out it was created and then edited (with childish nonsense) by the now blocked DaltoReborn on 13 July. According to Ponyo, a checkuser, DaltoReborn is a confirmed sock of DaltoUprising. I conclude that The kan123 is one too, though I suppose there may be about 1% doubt about that. Not sure whether to block as a sock or per WP:NOTHERE. Ponyo, what do you say? Bishonen | tålk 16:04, 28 July 2020 (UTC).

@Bishonen: technically it's  Inconclusive with large ranges and common UAs involved, so much so that I'd feel more comfortable a block coming based on their individual behaviour as opposed to tying them to the DaltoUprising group.-- Jezebel's Ponyo 18:26, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, thank you very much, Ponyo. On second thoughts NOTHERE might be overly harsh. I have partially blocked the user for a week from List of Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign endorsements for persistent uncollaborativeness. Giving them "annoying" warnings or advice is obviously pointless. Bishonen | tålk 19:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC).

Is InternetArchiveBot malfunctioning?

Special:Contributions/InternetArchiveBot. Seems to be placing non-existent or foreign language templates all over the place. Adam9007 (talk) 03:31, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Adam9007, I've temp blocked in meantime but this is far from my area of expertise so anyone please unblock if there's a better solution. In the meantime pinging @Cyberpower678: and @Kaldari: for feedback? Glen 03:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Glen, I've reverted all instances of {{Lidhje e thyer}} in articles I can find, but I haven't touched the foreign-language messages the bot left. Adam9007 (talk) 03:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Lidhje_e_thyer still has a half-dozen (other than this here discussion:) DMacks (talk) 04:02, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

DMacks, They should all be gone now. Thanks. I'd missed those. Adam9007 (talk) 04:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I made a change to the Albanian wiki (sqwiki) configuration and it seems to have overwritten the enwiki cfg with the Albanian cfgs. Weird. Thanks for the halt and cleanup. -- GreenC 04:20, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup on aisle internetarchive bot.

The thing is posting...well, look for yourselves. Qwirkle (talk) 03:42, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Qwirkle, See above :). Adam9007 (talk) 03:43, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Merged into above. SQL 04:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

User Visioncurve / Anthony J. Tata entry

I can find no way to contact Visioncurve. I went to his page and there is no way to contact him.

In discussing Tata's school board service, the article used "democratic majority" instead of "Democratic majority." The majority was from the Democratic Party, not those holding democratic beliefs. I edited pitalized Democratic.

The school board dismissed him because of concerns over his leadership style. The article put quotation marks around "leadership style," a common way of negating a term used by an adversary. This is inappropriate and prejudicial for a Misplaced Pages article.

User Visioncurve undid my edit, saying it "was not constructive," and re-edited democratic with a small "d" and replaced the quotation marks.

This user Visioncurve should be investigated to determine that he is really who he says he is, and not a Russian troll sewing dissent in the U.S., and he should be removed from his position at Misplaced Pages for his prejudicial conduct, and sent back to from wherever his immigrant ancestors came (figuratively speaking). This kind of behavior taints the respectability of Misplaced Pages.

John King, age 77, Denver, Colorado USA, a Savage from Virginia, the oldest immigrant family in America, and descendant of Wahunsenacawh, Mamanatowik of the Powhatan Nation (Chief Powhatan), and descendant of Rollo, first Duke of Normandy, who established the Rule of Law in the West. I love my country and the Rule of Law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.208.30.69 (talk)

IP editor, if you wish to contact Visioncurve, leave a message on his talk page and start a new section with one of the buttons at the top of the page. Please assume good faith of other editors until there is sufficient evidence otherwise. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Mr King, first of all, let me put your mind at ease and assure you that my revert has nothing to do with the Russians (I feel sad that this phrase passed its peak of popularity...). The sole intention of my revert was to remove the question: (who was his second wife?) you had posted at the bottom of the "Personal life" section of the article, which was indeed not constructive (next time, please use article's talk page if you have any questions regarding an article). As for that "Democratic majority" phrase, to tell the truth, I still don't quite understand how my revert actually had an impact on that as well, as I clearly remember that I saw only the above-mentioned edit in the "Personal life" section. I think that should be put down to the fact that there was almost no time between your first and second edit, and unfortunately, my revert accidentally nullified them both. Keep well and stay safe! Thanks! Visioncurve 10:36, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

sent back to from wherever his immigrant ancestors came

I think this rather racist comment from the IP has been overlooked in the above rant. That alone deserves a WP:BOOMERANG. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:31, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

IP: this isn't a serious complaint, it's a rant, larded with a weird xenophobic insult and concluding with a very odd claim of...what? patriotism? Who gives a damn who the hell you descended from? No one will claim to be descended from the garçon de pis, and yet... Anyway, I don't know why you weren't able to edit User talk:Visioncurve. Try clicking "edit". Then, all this Russian troll stuff, just drop it. It looks silly. Anyway, you were right about the D and wrong about the quotation marks--quotation marks are also used to, ahem, indicate that something is a quotation. Drmies (talk) 01:14, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

IS 7 foolery

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

someone messed with the IS 7 wikipedia article

making it say in action "It became a war tank in the 1809's from way back in the 1620 they had war that was included the is7"

iduno who did it or if i am even reporting this right i just wanted to make that little foolery known?

https://en.wikipedia.org/IS-7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.27.237.11 (talk) 05:43, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Y Thanks for reporting this. It looks like it’s been sorted. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 06:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Impersonation of an admin to close an AfD

User:Fish end karete closed Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Simply Nailogical after only one vote! and after only 5 days. Clicking on their user name redirects to User: Fish and karate who is an admin. This is clearly a deliberate impersonation of an admin in order to protect a page where the user has some interest in preserving. The account claims to be a doppleganger account of the genuine admin but there is no evidence on the admin user page or talk page of any such account. The knowledge of AfD processes, use of doppleganger accounts etc suggests a sock. All edits from this account have been today.  Velella    09:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

It would have been easy to rollback these changes if MusikBot II's FixPP task hadn't been abused to prevent rollback. I have disabled the task in Special:Diff/969944700 and informed MusikAnimal about the issue now. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 09:32, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Ach, so! --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:34, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

All the blocking, deleting, reverting and protecting looks done now. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Alejandro Developers is clearly the focus of this sock drawer's attention. Cabayi (talk) 09:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

User:ToBeFree, thank you. I noticed this the other day, how this ahole exploited that little loophole. Drmies (talk) 00:25, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Riku maina and NOTHERE

Riku maina (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
This user appears to be obsessed with various Manchester United F.C. players past and present, and continues to add content to the lead section of articles such as Ryan Giggs, Denis Law, Ruud van Nistelrooy and Michael Carrick despite the objections of other editors. I have attempted to contact the user on their talk page, but despite having edited on Misplaced Pages since January 2019, their only edit to a talk page in that time was to their own talk page, making a spurious claim about having a reliable source for their edits, which has never been the issue as far as I can see. Given that they are clearly WP:NOTHERE to collaborate on building an encyclopaedia, I think it's about time they were blocked from editing. – PeeJay 10:21, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the edits largely constitute FANCRUFT and whilst some content might be suitable elsewhere in those articles, not in the lede. Their refusal to use edit summaries or engage, and their repeated editing pattern, means that a block would be suitable. GiantSnowman 10:27, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Snooganssnoogans

Snooganssnoogans (talk · contribs) has accused two editors of stalking their edits without proof and made personal attacks.

• I reverted his numerous changes to January 2019 Lincoln Memorial confrontation made by Snooganssnoogans and had yet to be able to chime in at the talkpage when he showed up both on that article talk and at my userpage with: "Do not stalk me and indiscriminately revert me, as you did on January 2019 Lincoln Memorial confrontation (a page you've never edited before). You restored a bunch of completely indefensible content, including recently added citations to deprecated sources (such as RT) and a crap op-ed in the lead that accuses progressives of being anti-Catholicism. Your behavior on that page is a disservice to the Misplaced Pages project." Telling me my "behavior on that page is a disservice to the Misplaced Pages project" is ridiculous. I reviewed his changes, reverted myself and then examined each of his changes on the article talkpage, where he has yet to even bother to chime in since. I even agreed with some of his changes. He doesn't own pages, sorry.
• Here he accuses another editor of stalking them . As he is on a 1RR restriction he alerts others about a "stalker revert", then refers to the same editor as engaging in "creepy harassment".

I am tired of these kind of bad faith accusations. I initially did not agree with Snooganssanoogans changes, reverted them but then restored and analyzed them. I don't need to be accused of stalking and have my edits accused of being a "disservice to the Misplaced Pages project". That's bullshit and I am calling Snoogansnoogans on it.--MONGO (talk) 23:19, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any evidence of stalking (based on looking at the linked page and its talk page), nor do I see indiscriminate reversion (explanations were given in the edit summaries. Obviously, I'm not commenting where I stand content-wise). I agree that accusations of stalking should not be used lightly. Snooganssnoogans, if you have diffs that show that MONGO is stalking you, please provide them. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:30, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Shortly after I made a series of edits to the page, you indiscriminately reverted all of my edits (which included restoring deprecated sources and a ludicrous statement in the lead which accused progressives of being anti-Catholicism). You had never edited the page before nor commented on the talk page. The combination of no verifiable history on the page coupled with the ludicrous nature of the revert led me to accuse you of stalking me to the page. Since you say that you watchlisted the article and given that others are vouching for you, you have my sincere apologies for the false accusation. As for Malerooster, that editor is 100% stalking me, as shown by the diffs here (which includes editing on very obscure pages). The behavior of Malerooster, coupled with numerous editors in the past who were 100% confirmed to hound me and warned by administrators for doing so (incl. Winkelvi, SashiRolls and James J. Lambden), sheds light on why I may have been too eager to accuse you of stalking. It is a reason, not an excuse. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 23:41, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

You lost me at "ludicrous nature of the revert". This is Misplaced Pages and sorry but your edits are not all gold and unworthy being "edited mercilessly" Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages is free content and once you hit publish changes, they do not belong to you nor to me.--MONGO (talk) 00:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

• I did not realize this was a common thing. It recently happened with me when I reverted them at Tyson Foods. PackMecEng (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

• You did stalk me to that page. Two minutes after responding to me on the admin noticeboard, you followed me to the page (which you had never edited before), only to revert me in full and make sure that the lead of the article no longer summarized the body of the article. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 00:44, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

• Like Mongo that page was on my watchlist for a long time and never got around to editing it. In my past life I used to be in the food packaging industry, that is the Pack in my username. The timing is because that is when I got back to my computer and saw my watchlist. PackMecEng (talk) 02:42, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Snooganssnoogans, I think you should stop posting the 'please stop stalking and reverting me indiscriminately' accusation in general. There are many ways an editor you're familiar with from having opposing views might wind up editing the same page you do. Even following your edits doesn't necessarily make them stalkers. There are a couple of people whose edits I occasionally follow out of curiosity and it has occurred that I've changed or reverted their edits. That doesn't make me a stalker nor have any of the victims ever accused me of being one. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:38, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I guess one relevant distinction is whether you're being reverted in order to needle, provoke, intimidate, skunk you, or whether you're being reverted because the reverter believes it is the better version for an encyclopedia. Ultimately, only the reverters can answer this, but I don't sense any creepy stalking with MONGO or PackMecEng's edit(s). ---Sluzzelin talk 01:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

The beauty of editing on American politics-related pages is that every single substantive addition of content can be reverted with the justification "WP:NPOV". In the past when I've been 100% confirmed to have been stalked, admins only acted when the stalkers went to non-politics-related pages to continue the harassment (e.g. Winkelvi, SashiRolls). Was it not stalking before that point just because the editors could always plausibly argue "NPOV" every time that they reverted me in US politics-editing? This is not a defense of baseless accusations of stalking –I'm just pointing out that in practice, someone intent on stalking someone else in American politics-related editing could do so without ever falling afoul of the standard you set. If I were intent on nullifying someone else's editing in a controversial sphere of Misplaced Pages, I could follow them around (which you say is alright), act civilly and cite Wiki guidelines in all my reverts, and tie the other editor up on the talk page. It would serve the goal of nullifying the other editor's contributions, wasting their time and annoying them, but it would not cross any red line in terms of stalking (as you would define it). Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:44, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I see what you mean, yet I definitely don't equate MONGO and PackMecEng's behaviour with Winkelvi and SashiRoll's, not by a long shot. I don't think you're being followed around like that by MONGO and PackMecEng. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:56, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

• MONGO, it sure looks like WP:OWN to me. The same with PackMecEng so he doubled down - with two different articles. _Talk 📧 01:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

  No, it's not about WP:OWN. It's about the same groups of editors, allocated on two sides, battling each other over every conceivable instance where they stand opposed on whatever political spectrum you choose. It's tedious. It's tiring. It's unproductive. ---Sluzzelin talk 02:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

• This bad faith reaction on Snoogan's part is a reoccurring problem. In addition to MONGO and PackMecEng, GlassBones], Malerooster], Calidum] and myself] have been accused of "stalking" in the last few months. Additional editors have been accused of stalking in the recent past; Toa Nidhiki05], Dy3o2], 84percent], KidAd]. The common theme is Snoogan's makes a lot of edits. Many of those edits are POINTy and not in frequently low quality. Not long ago Snoogan's was the subject of an ANI for edit warring when others objected to such edits ]. Part of that sanction included a civility warning from Awilley. Note that the "additional editors" were accused prior to that Nov 2019 ANI. Ultimately Snoogan's feels they are righting great wrongs by patrolling many pages and preventing the POV edits from making it to articles]. All the while they are ignoring their own similar edits. Other editors take a look at something Snoogans has done, see the problematic nature of the edits and revert. That fails to meet WP:HOUND. However, accusing others of hounding rather than reflecting on the reoccurring problems with Snoogan's own edits is also a problem. Being a prolific editor isn't a benefit to Misplaced Pages if many of those edits result in lower quality or less neutral/impartial articles. If Snoogan's can recognize the problem with their own edits then perhaps they shouldn't be making those edits. Springee (talk) 02:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Only commenting because my name was invoked, and I'll try to keep it short. Springee's assessment above is (partly) correct. Snooganssoogans is a very prolific editor and mainly edits within the American politics (post-1932) subject area. I believe Snoogans is a fundamentally productive contributor, who is willing to "get down in the weeds" and edit the pages of conspiracy theorists, fringe thinkers, far-right provocateurs, and other abhorrent individuals. After spending significant time in that corner of American politics, it's only natural that one believes others may be targeting them. Snoogans has been the target of harrassement and hounding, off- and on-site. (See this google search) for a taste. Taking a glance at the interaction tool between Snooganssoogans and MONGO, it becomes clear that the two interacted on talk pages – discussing controversial subjects – prior to the alleged stalking. It is not difficult to notice a user pop up on talk pages or page histories a few too many times and think "is this more than a coincidence?" KidAd (💬💬) 02:34, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Odd because his name does pop up on many pages on my watchlist yet I rarely if ever bother to edit those pages or engage them in discussion. Over the past couple years I can think of 2 times we exchanged a conversation about content directly one on one. I go to those pages and make an edit and both times am attacked....accused of stalking him, told my edits are ludicrous, am told I am "edit warring" after I make ONE revert of his edit....--MONGO (talk) 02:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

How is it that I, mostly an observer of articles on current American politics, am less astonished on this particular clash. I don't buy it. Please be more sincere, then we might actually achieve a step forward in this boring battle. ---Sluzzelin talk 03:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm not going to roll out my Wiki-resume and edit history to show this editor and I have only had a tiny few exchanges but when they do always start off with him assuming the worst of me. Even the pages we may comment on we are not "talking" with each other. I just checked the talkpage for the Donald Trump article and I don't see us conversing directly...I could be mistaken of course. I go and revert him twice and am attacked...apparently this is a ongoing pattern of which I am but one person to have had this experience of him telling editors they are stalking him etc.--MONGO (talk) 03:34, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

They don't even bother to respond to me after I make a comment. In the two times I can think of us "discussing" anything, he posts his inflammatory tirade then I respond and he never comes back. Does he expect me to offer him a pink unicorn to cuddle by in my wording or just turn the other cheek. I'm not posturing for an admin run so why the hell would I put up with his bad faith accusations?--MONGO (talk) 03:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I was surprised to see my username invoked as I haven't been active on Misplaced Pages in a while. There are editors that I have had disagreements with; I've even learned from them and apologized, but Snoog is by far the most aggressively mean-spirited editor I have come across - Snoog is a bully. We need diverse people to contribute and balance each other out on these articles, but Snoog's continual lashing out at people make apparent that their biases are so large they don't believe they should be subjected to Wiki's checks and balance system. Snoog does not engage in good faith dialogue and is not afraid to quickly escalate any interaction to demoralize any new contributor they disagree with. I know some have commented on some of Snoog's merits, but frankly, editors like Snoog tarnish the brand and authority of Misplaced Pages. Dy3o2 (talk) 04:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

• So we have some edits by snooganssnoogans, a revert by mongo, a hasty accusation by snoogans, a restoration of some of the edits (and discussion) by mongo, and here an apology by snoogans for the accusation. Then we have a whole bunch of other inevitable stuff complete with pings of many people who have been in disputes with snoogans in the past (I'm not saying those pings were inappropriate btw). There seems little doubt that snoogans has been stalked by multiple people in the past. There is also little doubt that snoogans is being too quick to assume as much. How about this for a close to avoid a potentially long, heated thread: "The issue that brought us here is resolved and discussed on the talk page. All editors are reminded that stalking other editors' edits is unacceptable, and snoogans is cautioned to be careful with accusations of stalking." — Rhododendrites \\ 04:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

  I fully reverted myself and have not restored anything. No, I think Snooganssnoogans needs a site ban but that will only come with a full arbcom case.--MONGO (talk) 04:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

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