Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:17, 1 June 2003

I will respond to messages on this page. Please check your contributions list ("My contributions") for responses. If there is a response, your edit is no longer the "top" edit in the list.

Unlike other Wikipedians I don't archive Talk pages since old contents are automatically archived anyway - if you want to access previous comments use the "Older versions" function. But I keep a log of the removals:

• Removed all comments prior to Jan 2003. --Eloquence 04:42 Jan 1, 2003 (UTC)
• Removed all comments prior to Feb 2003. --Eloquence 10:19 Feb 3, 2003 (UTC)
• Removed all comments prior to March 2003. --Eloquence 21:19 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)
• Removed all comments prior to April 2003. --Eloquence 08:14 25 May 2003 (UTC)
• Removed all comments up to May 31 2003. -Eloquence 19:14 31 May 2003 (UTC)

Sehr geehrter Herr Moeller, ich finde Ihre Reaktion sehr befremdlich. Bitte loeschen sie die Eintraege auf meiner Talk Seite umgehend - ich moechte meinen Namen nicht in einen Zusammenhang mit den pornographischen Seiten verlinkt sehen - ich habe eine Ruf zu verlieren - Professor Dr. Uwe Kils Kils 19:26 31 May 2003 (UTC)

Sehr geehrter Herr Kils, auf Ihrer Diskussions-Seite befindet sich kein Link auf "pornographische Seiten". Für die laufende Diskussion auf wikien-l ist diese Seite jedoch wichtiges Hintergrundmaterial, und es wäre unfair gegenüber Nicht-Administratoren, sie einfach zu löschen -- zur Löschung von Seiten gibt es auf Misplaced Pages strenge Regeln, an die ich mich halten muss (siehe Misplaced Pages:Administrators). Wenn Sie allerdings ein Posting an wikien-l schicken und freiwillig auf Ihren Sysop-Status verzichten, erübrigt sich die Debatte und ich werde den Schutz der Seite gerne aufheben. Ich würde mich freuen, wenn Sie auch weiterhin bei Misplaced Pages mitarbeiten. --Eloquence 19:33 31 May 2003 (UTC) ---

Dear Mr. Moeller! I asked you to erase my talk page which you reverted even though I erased some of it as invited sysop. Instead of doing it you threat me now you will leave it up longer and even blocked it, opend the ugly content of user:Mbecker discussions and threat me that only if I voluntarily let go of the sysop status you will open the "protection". If you think you can take these liberty as a developer and act accordingly I ask you hereby to immediately erase the whole user:kils page or immediately give me back my sysop status so I can do it. I am not willing to appear in a project which hosts images like the clitoris.jpg on http://www.wikipedia.org/upload/archive/1/19/20030520015715!Clitoris.jpg , which is a clear conflict with USA pornography law, probably even copyright law. This image has been mounted by your partner Michael Becker user:Mbecker who made a motion to ban our viking project. After I read as administrator that six users on the sysop mailing list requested to ban viking I did what they asked me for as sysop.

As soon as the pornographic content is gone and some other pages are edited to be within the rules again I might discuss with BOMIS CEO about a further cooperation as editor and the reason for the pause. Sincerely yours Dr. Uwe Kils Kils 03:28 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Professor Kils,

several responses appear to be in order.

1) You were invited as a sysop under the condition to respect our policies, one of which is the Misplaced Pages:Policy on permanent deletion of pages. By deleting your user talk page and the Viking user pages, you removed the documentation of your Viking experiment. This was an inappropriate abuse of your sysop privileges, as two other users on the wikien-l mailing list have already noted. It is therefore likely that your sysop status revocation will be upheld until you promise to act in accordance with our policy in the future.

2) Your talk page, in its current protected form, does not link to any "pornographic" page, not the clitoris image, not Mbecker's user page, not Mbecker's user talk page (which references the image). The content which you removed from that page has nothing at all to do with the clitoris image.

3) I happen to be an expert on the scientific study of pornography ,. Pornography, according to Supreme Court precedent law in the United States, are texts and images which lack redeeming artistic, scientific, or social value and have no purpose except to appeal to "prurient interests"; the German definition from the Strafrechtskommentar to §184 StGB is:

"Ein Medium ist pornographisch, wenn es unter Hintansetzen aller sonstigen menschlichen Bezuege sexuelle Vorgaenge in grob aufdringlicher Weise in den Vordergrund rueckt und wenn seine objektive Gesamttendenz ausschliesslich oder ueberwiegend auf Aufreizen des Sexualtriebes abzielt."

The clitoris image in question is not pornographic according to the American or the German definition. An even further refined version of that image is used to illustrate the Clitoris article and therefore has quite obvious educational value; it is not directly embedded into this article but rather linked to with a clear description to avoid offense. This is the result of a long discussion regarding the proper placement of the image. You seem to be intent on removing educational information from Misplaced Pages -- this will not be allowed.

4) Mbecker is not my "partner" any more than anyone else on this project. He was not the only user who considered a ban of the Viking user, and has no special authority.

5) Nobody asked you to delete the viking user pages, and certainly not to delete your own talk page. People asked you to stop whoever it is who was acting under the user name Viking (and now Vikings) from needlessly removing perfectly valid content from articles like fisting.

Your moral standards seem more appropriate for a monastery than for an encyclopedia. Certainly Misplaced Pages will not be edited to reflect these standards, and if this means that you will no longer participate in the project, so be it.

I stand by my decision to protect your user page to prevent you from removing your own explanation of the Viking experiment without any reason. I also stand by my revocation of your sysop status and hope someone responsible for the German Misplaced Pages will make the same decision there.

Sincerely,

--Eloquence 04:15 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Moeller, thank you for your extensive letter. To your comment: "You seem to be intent on removing educational information from Misplaced Pages -- this will not be allowed.": I never used my sysop rights to do such, nor am I planning to do so. I just made suggestions in the hope some would support it. If it stays like this we can only contribute, maybe we should do it anonymous.

Sincersly

Uwe Kils

Just wanted to thank you for all your help with User:Kils/User:Viking. It was certainly an unpleasant situation. MB 07:30 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Check the new article I just started Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages and Religion... Bad idea? --Dante Alighieri 08:56 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

No, but someone will tell you pretty soon that "this belongs on meta", specifically, that it should be merged with m:Wikipedians categorized by sub-cultural affiliation. --Eloquence 08:59 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

To all: I appologize to everybody that might have felt insulted. I did not mean it that way. You can delete whatever you want from my content. I do not want to keep my sysop status nor the user page.

uwe Kils 12:17 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)