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A more detailed and chronicled history of censorship

What does the group think about, adding a detailed etymology of the term censorship? Also, why is the current reference used, as it not the most defining, earliest, or best way to understand the history of the concept of censorship.

Any thoughts on what would be included in the ideal history regarding censorship? Julientremblaymclellan (talk) 18:27, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Definition?

The current definition of censorship seems to be contradicted by the source.

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or "inconvenient" as determined by government authorities or by community consensus"

When you follow the reference (Merriam-Webster) it doesn't say anything about community consensus, only governments Unfortunately I don't know how to change it for the better, maybe someone else has a good idea? 85.226.145.74 (talk) 14:57, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes you are completely correct. There is no such thing as censorship by community consensus. The article mentions community once in relation to books. Its not appropriate to add community consensus to the lead because its not supported in the article below. - Shiftchange (talk) 23:35, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

This abstract succinctly describes what is going on. We need to clarify that censorship is undertaken by government but sometimes carried out by private institutions. Its polemic use and its more specific use in the USA needs to be clarified. To be considered censorship the "activity has at least to be publicly recognized". - Shiftchange (talk) 09:02, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

The key word in the definition sentence is suppression. Suppression means "to put an end to" or "to do away with" or "to withhold from disclosure or publication". That is not what happened to Alex Jones when he was "deplatformed". His speech is still free at infowars, so it hasn't ended, been withheld or been done away with. True suppression can only come about through the actions of authority, such as jailing dissenters, not by the actions of individuals or companies making business decisions that moderate extremes. We need to make the distinction between moderation and censorship clear. - Shiftchange (talk) 07:38, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

New interesting images of censorship uploaded, feel free to use or ask for more

If you go to media and look up 'Censorship in the Republic of China', you will find some interesting photographs.

I've uploaded two images of censored texts found in a 1978 edition of Encyclopedia Americana. The texts were censored by the Republic of China (now commonly known as "Taiwan"). In one image, (what I believe are) Communist slogans in a photograph have been censored. In the other photograph, words in the article itself as well as in a map of Mongolia have been censored. Stamped on the bottom left of both images are the words "Contents deleted as instructed by the Ministry of Interior, ROC."

I find these interesting because there is hardly any English content about censorship in Taiwan, which used to be a dictatorship, and also because there aren't a lot of images of such blatant censorship uploaded so far. Additionally, for one article the censorship is motivated by anti-Communist sentiment. Because people might tend to (problematically) think of Communist governments as the only ones doing the censoring, that they are here the ones being censored seems mildly ironic and quite informative.

Feel free to use the images. There are much more from the same Encyclopedia Americana that I can upload. I will not be inserting the images right now (maybe later) because I want to give the whole Wiki article a good read first before I change anything. CensoredDog (talk) 06:22, 12 March 2019 (UTC) CensoredDog (talk) 08:01, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

CensoredDog has started edit warring. I have given reasons why his edit is not relevant but he has reverted by revert. The reasons are simple. A photo of a page of an encyclopaedia is not a relevant photo for a page no matter what the accompanying text. I asked for the text to more appropriately put into prose and the encyclopaedia that was in the photo to be used as a source but to no avail. WP:BRD is relevant here which I pointed out. CensoredDog needs to justify why his edit improves the article. I await a cogent response. Robynthehode (talk) 17:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

@Robynthehode: Thank you for your concerns, but I believe there are some inaccuracies in the way you have characterized our dispute. I will quote you to avoid straw manning.

• "The reasons are simple. A photo of a page of an encyclopaedia is not a relevant photo for a page no matter what the accompanying text."

This is inaccurate and misleading. The page of that encyclopedia was very obviously censored. If you'd take a careful look at the photograph, Communist texts in the image at the top left have been crossed out by the Nationalist party of the ROC. Likewise, the caption of the photograph has been crossed out by the same dictatorship. The bottom left is stamped "Contents deleted as instructed by the Ministry of Interior, ROC."

Now, there are a few hypotheses that a rational individual might make about your misleading statement which refers to that photo as simply "a page of an encyclopedia."

One hypothesis is that you did not look at the image carefully enough to see the censored parts. That would not be my fault. Another hypothesis is that you did see the censored parts but failed to mention it in your "simple" reason for deleting it. That would be disingenuous of you. However, I will assume good faith and believe that you did not look at the photograph carefully enough. So, please look at it more carefully. If you have seen the censored portions and still think that it is simply a "page of an encyclopedia," please let me know why.

• "I asked for the text to more appropriately put into prose and the encyclopaedia that was in the photo to be used as a source but to no avail."

This is accurate but misleading.

(1) I noted in one of the edit summaries that this requirement is debatable. There are legitimate academic sources that do not abide by this practice. Perhaps--if I may so boldly suggest--a criterion of relevance is more reasonable. If we can agree on this criterion, then I think it is reasonable to say that an image depicting one former Chinese dictatorship's censorship of the Chinese Communist Party is relevant to a section about political censorship.

(2) You also made the quite subjective comment that the original caption is "overly long." My caption was 46 words (now 40 words, following your suggestion). The longest and second-longest captions on the page are 83 words and 39, respectively:

83-word caption: "Wieczór Wrocławia – Daily newspaper of Wrocław, People's Republic of Poland, March 20–21, 1981, with censor intervention on first and last pages—under the headlines "Co zdarzyło się w Bydgoszczy?" (What happened in Bydgoszcz?) and "Pogotowie strajkowe w całym kraju" (Country-wide strike alert). The censor had removed a section regarding the strike alert; hence the workers in the printing house blanked out an official propaganda section. The right-hand page also includes a hand-written confirmation of that decision by the local "Solidarność" Trade Union."

39-word caption: "Chinese troops destroyed the statue Goddess of Democracy in Tiananmen Square in 1989, and continue to censor information about those events. This statue, now known as the Victims of Communism Memorial, was recreated by Thomas Marsh in Washington, DC."

I think we can agree on a few premises. (1) The above two captions are not overly long. (2) If they are not overly long, then a 40-word caption (mine, trimmed down from 46 words) is not overly long. (3) Length is highly subjective. (4) There are captions in legitimate academic sources that are just as if not longer. (5) There are images and captions in legitimate academic sources that are not put in prose in the article itself. (6) If we agree on some of the premises (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5), then it is reasonable to say that your objection to word length and lack of prose has been adequately addressed. CensoredDog (talk) 04:54, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for coming back with a detailed response. Having looked again at your edit I can admit I made an error in assessing what the photo depicted. I should have been more careful. So I think your original edit was legitimate but stand by the following points. I think it is good practice to follow WP:BRD. While not mandatory coming to the talk page to explain an edit can more easily reveal the reasoning behind it. Your detailed explanation above is a case in point. Second your comparative word length argument is not valid (unless the comparison is based on an accepted consensus for caption word length). Although we may agree on an acceptable word length for captions comparing word length of one caption to another does not justify a general word length. However, looking again at the photo I believe your re-edited caption is perfectly acceptable. So apologies for my mistake in misreading your initial edit and happy to leave it as is. Robynthehode (talk) 06:05, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! As our previous dispute has been resolved, I will leave the issue of caption word count for another day (if necessary). But most importantly, I want to thank you for being civil and honest. CensoredDog (talk) 08:03, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Congrats to you both for civility. Zezen (talk) 05:59, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

should show more distinction between state censorship and censoring of inappropriate content

Edit warring

47A74, Lothkans - this is an article talk page. It's here to allow you to discuss changes. Please quit reverting each other without edit summaries, and discuss these changes, or do I need to start handing out edit warring warnings? Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 17:00, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know! The section was removed as my edit summary because it is giving advice to journalists about how to protect themselves from surveillance and it's not the subject of the article. Lothkans (talk) 17:11, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I understand what you meant now. I'll be more careful next time. 47A74 (talk) 17:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

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