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Revision as of 14:29, 19 June 2006 editCarcharoth (talk | contribs)Administrators73,550 edits →Three-way ties - problem?← Previous edit Latest revision as of 11:32, 10 January 2007 edit undoCarcharoth (talk | contribs)Administrators73,550 edits blanked to page history 
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== Three-way ties - problem? ==

It is possible that a three-way tie could occur in Group G. If Switzerland beat Togo today, and then France beat Togo while Switzerland and South Korea draw (all three results are quite likely), then three teams will finish tied for 1-3 place in the group.

The problem I foresee, from looking at the FIFA tiebreak criteria, is that they do not say what happens if a three-way tie is only partially resolved when applying criteria d, e, or f (the ones that look only at the points, goal difference and goals scored between the teams in the tie). Eg. One team has inferior points/GD/GS to the other two teams, but the other two teams are still tied on points/GD/GS. Do you then move on, say, from criteria d to e, and still use the values for the three-way tie, or do you recalculate the values for criteria d/e/f for a 2-way tie (effectively reverting to criteria d, as criteria e/f are irrelevant for a 2-way tie)?

The same would apply for a four-way tie, except for the fact that a four-way tie is no longer possible at this World Cup (in Group H, Spain drawing or winning one of its last two games, or losing them both - these conditions cover all possibilities - avoids a 4-way tie). Thankfully. ] 11:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, the hypothetical three-way tie would only reach criteria d/e/f if Switzerland beat Togo 3-2 today, thus bringing the Swiss level with South Korea on points, GD and GS, all of which would be preserved in the hypothetical final draw between Switzerland and South Korea. For France to join that tie, they would have to beat Togo by 2+x:1+x, where x-x is the score in the South Korea-Switzerland draw! ] 12:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
::So... the scenarios are:
::* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 0-0 South Korea; France 2-1 Togo
:::''Switzerland eliminated on goals scored within the tie; lots drawn between France and Korea to decide first and second place.''
::* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 1-1 South Korea; France 3-2 Togo
:::''Korea qualify first on goals scored within the tie. Lots drawn betwen France and Switzerland to decide second and third place.''
::* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 2-2 South Korea; France 4-3 Togo
:::''Korea qualify first, Switzerland qualify second, France eliminated, all on goals scored within the tie.''
::* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 3-3 South Korea; France 5-4 Togo
:::''Korea qualify first, Switzerland qualify second, France eliminated, all on goals scored within the tie.''
::* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 4-4 South Korea; France 6-5 Togo
:::''Korea qualify first, Switzerland qualify second, France eliminated, all on goals scored within the tie.''

This pattern continues for similar scorelines involving more goals, but the same results and goal differences.

The other 3-way tie would involve a Togo win over Switzerland, a Togo draw with France and a Switzerland defeat of Korea. The scores are: Togo x-y Switzerland; Togo z-z France; Switzerland a-b Korea. For Swiss and Togo GD to be identical: Togo win by 1, Swiss win by 1; Togo win by 2, Swiss win by 3; Togo win by 3, Swiss win by 5; Togo win by 4, Swiss win by 7; etc. But the Swiss defeat of Korea reduces Korea's GD from +1. So the only way Korea and Togo can tie on goal difference is for Togo to win by one, and Korea to lose by one, which also brings Switzerland's GD to 0. ie. the only way for a three-way tie on GD is x-y = 1, and a-b = 1. For example: Togo 1-0 Switzerland; Togo 0-0 France; Switzerland 1-0 Korea. To get ''overall GS'' identical for Togo, Korea and Switzerland, the required scores are: Togo 3-2 Switzerland; Togo z-z France; Switzerland (2+z)-(1+z) Korea.

The tie would then be broken by discounting the France results, which in this scenario were all draws, so the match points and GD are not affected within the tie between Togo, Switzerland and Korea. The tie would then be broken by goals scored within the tie by discounting the results against France (France 0-0 Switzerland; Korea 1-1 France; Togo z-z France).

Thus, the closest tie-break scenarios are:

*Togo 3-2 Switzerland; Togo 0-0 France; Switzerland 2-1 Korea.
:''Korea eliminated on goals scored within the tie; lots drawn between Togo and Switzerland to decide first and second place.''
*Togo 3-2 Switzerland; Togo 1-1 France; Switzerland 3-2 Korea.
:''Switzerland qualify first on goals scored within the tie. Lots drawn betwen Korea and Togo to decide second and third place.''
*Togo 3-2 Switzerland; Togo 2-2 France; Switzerland 4-3 Korea.
:''Switzerland qualify first, Korea qualify second, Togo eliminated, all on goals scored within the tie.''

==With tables==

* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 0-0 South Korea; France 2-1 Togo
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
!width="185"|Team
!width="20"|Pts
!width="20"|Pld
!width="20"|W
!width="20"|D
!width="20"|L
!width="20"|GF
!width="20"|GA
!width="20"|GD
|-
|align="left"|{{KORf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||3||2||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{FRAf}}
|'''5'''||3||0||2||0||3||2||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{SUIf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||3||2||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{TOGf}}
|'''0'''||3||0||0||3||4||7||-3
|}

Discount Togo results:
*Korea Republic 2-1 Togo
*Switzerland 3-2 Togo
*France 2-1 Togo<br><br>

* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 1-1 South Korea; France 3-2 Togo
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
!width="185"|Team
!width="20"|Pts
!width="20"|Pld
!width="20"|W
!width="20"|D
!width="20"|L
!width="20"|GF
!width="20"|GA
!width="20"|GD
|-
|align="left"|{{KORf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||4||3||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{FRAf}}
|'''5'''||3||0||2||0||4||3||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{SUIf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||4||3||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{TOGf}}
|'''0'''||3||0||0||3||5||8||-3
|}

Discount Togo results:
*Korea Republic 2-1 Togo
*Switzerland 3-2 Togo
*France 3-2 Togo<br><br>

* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 2-2 South Korea; France 4-3 Togo
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
!width="185"|Team
!width="20"|Pts
!width="20"|Pld
!width="20"|W
!width="20"|D
!width="20"|L
!width="20"|GF
!width="20"|GA
!width="20"|GD
|-
|align="left"|{{KORf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||5||4||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{FRAf}}
|'''5'''||3||0||2||0||5||4||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{SUIf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||5||4||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{TOGf}}
|'''0'''||3||0||0||3||6||9||-3
|}

Discount Togo results:
*Korea Republic 2-1 Togo
*Switzerland 3-2 Togo
*France 4-3 Togo<br><br>

* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 3-3 South Korea; France 5-4 Togo
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
!width="185"|Team
!width="20"|Pts
!width="20"|Pld
!width="20"|W
!width="20"|D
!width="20"|L
!width="20"|GF
!width="20"|GA
!width="20"|GD
|-
|align="left"|{{KORf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||6||5||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{FRAf}}
|'''5'''||3||0||2||0||6||5||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{SUIf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||6||5||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{TOGf}}
|'''0'''||3||0||0||3||7||10||-3
|}

Discount Togo results:
*Korea Republic 2-1 Togo
*Switzerland 3-2 Togo
*France 5-4 Togo<br><br>

* Switzerland 3-2 Togo; Switzerland 4-4 South Korea; France 6-5 Togo
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
!width="185"|Team
!width="20"|Pts
!width="20"|Pld
!width="20"|W
!width="20"|D
!width="20"|L
!width="20"|GF
!width="20"|GA
!width="20"|GD
|-
|align="left"|{{KORf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||7||6||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{FRAf}}
|'''5'''||3||0||2||0||7||6||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{SUIf}}
|'''5'''||3||1||2||0||7||6||+1
|-
|align="left"|{{TOGf}}
|'''0'''||3||0||0||3||8||11||-3
|}

Discount Togo results:
*Korea Republic 2-1 Togo
*Switzerland 3-2 Togo
*France 6-5 Togo

Latest revision as of 11:32, 10 January 2007

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