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Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
Just letting you know so you can respond there if you wish. ] 14:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Just letting you know so you can respond there if you wish. ] 14:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
:To expand on the above, ] posted this on the RfA talk page: ''"Arbitrary code exception on the bot's machine? No. Arbitrary command execution on wikipedia? Depends on how the bot sends information back to the servers. I have not reviewed the code, nor has, to my knowledge, any python security expert, nor can I rely on distributed error checking to review the code, and as such, you just don't know what happens if a page to be protected has the following on it -> . Does it load and recurisvely protect everyting on malicioustemplate%2%6%9deleteallcontributions? Does it attempt to load and recursively protect the page deleteallcontributions, which has now resulted in the protection of the entire encyclopedia (oops!) Does it load http://en.wikipedia.com/w/deleteallcontributions and fail? I don't know! I can think of more way to beat the bot, but I'm just shooting in the dark. Real security audits involve reviewing the code."''
:That is the sort of concern I think people have, and which would be addressed by limiting the bot's tools to protection. ] 14:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Revision as of 14:39, 10 January 2007
I prefer to keep discussions unfragmented.
If I post on your talk page, I will notice any replies posted there.
Unless you request otherwise, I will reply here to comments made here.
I will usually post a brief note on your talk page to let you know that I have replied, unless your talk page instructs me otherwise.
If you write a reply to me here, I may decide to move your text back to your talk page in an effort to keep the thread in one place.
If you are just pointing out something written to me elsewhere, edit here.
Such pointers are useful if you've written to a comment I made many days ago.
I refactor my talk page, so
To see older messages please view the history.
Pings
This is kind of embarassing, but I have to come clean: I thought you were a jerk, once. I said a mean thing, I was kind of clueless... sorry. I think you're pretty cool now. ~MDD469604:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, indeed! I'm sorry about the confusion and I'm glad you understand it. Since talkpage spamming is only accepted in a few instances I didn't see any reason to be overly cautious, but I was mistaken. I'm curious, however, why did you use an image? --Gmaxwell20:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
No problem :). I used an image because it was the only effective way to convey the parody. -- Where22:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Dear GMaxwell, I dislike the fact that you and your "people" keep me from putting on my comments for the DISCUSSION OF THE DELETION of the Oolong page. This is hypocritical, I wish that page on Oolong to be removed, I said I wanted it to be removed, but every time I reloaded the page discussion page, my comments have been removed. You are all fascist jerkfaces. Just because a cat ate Oolong doesn't make it vandalism! Go ahead and remove this too, block me you too, Hitler, I don't care anymore because this is a mockery of real encyclopedias and should removed from the internet, this is not factual in anyway.
Quite a while ago now you created a higher quality version of a crude MS Paint image I created. If I gave you a crude diagram of a simple device consisting of a u-tube and a few wires would you be able to create a higher quality PNG image of it? You’ll notice that it’s a scanned image; even MS Paint doesn’t work on my damned computer now! The u-tube is meant to be fat on the left and thin (a capillary tube) on the right.
The device itself is called a “lipman electrometer” and it’s going to be connected to the article about the device (which doesn’t exist yet) and maybe the article about the ECG machine. Thanks and your input is much appreciated. Miller18:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't quite understand your objection, what harm would it be if not used enough? But that aside, I take it from your post that you would interested in creating a bot version? ed g2s • talk18:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
We already have far too many features which aren't used bloating the code. The hard part of control is making the list... so lets make the list. We could require the use of {{fairusein}} for each use, or perhaps something lighter weight. What do you think? --Gmaxwell18:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Fairusein|foo would work, although it would probaly be better to have the image control list separate from the fairusein template, using a template that explains the system and hand, and what the bot will do.
I have put the template on 20 pages (Premiership club logos) for a trial run. I imagine the bot running in the following way:
Iterate what-links-here for allowedin
{
Open image page, extract whitelist.
Remove non article namespace links from whitelist.
Check for redirects in the whitelist. Auto-fix (if possible) or add to to-do list.
Write cleaned whitelist back to image page.
Iterate file-links for image.
{
If page not in whitelist, load and remove image instances.
}
}
Incidents like the Jtkiefer / Pegasus1138 / Thygard stuff make me glad I'm in a different timezone to everyone else, but I couldn't help noticing your comment about needing to 'fix' FPC. Seeing as how I've been involved in FPC for some time now (although university commitments are eating into my time these days) I'm very interested in knowing what you feel needs fixing. Raven4x4x00:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
The image claimed fair use... even if the claim of fair use was valid (It wouldn't be there), we don't permit fair use images in user space, and even if we did the image was a derrivitive work... which aren't covered by fair use. In short the image was an obvious copyright violation. At least... thats why I tagged it. As for the deletion, you should ask the deleting admin. --Gmaxwell17:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Because its immaterial. That link was on the image page, which you flagged. Now that we've established that it wasnt claimed as fair use, and was linked to the source image, why did you flag the image page? -Ste|vertigo03:42, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Um. Image A claims to be fair use. Image B claims to be licensed the same as A. Thus it follows that B is also claimed to be fair use. What am I missing? The image is unlicensed content, and we don't permit such images on userpages. Linking the image is helpful because the flagged page has been deleted. --Gmaxwell03:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Good catches on my blog spam. I really shouldn't have put those there. I honestly thought they were useful references, but it's too vanity-oriented, and just not appropriate. -- Thekohser06:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
FFmpeg2theora issues
Ok, to review the stuff we talked about at Wikimania, here's a brief list of things I really want improved with ffmpeg2theora:
I was given bad information; the windows binary on the site appears, in fact, to be up to date. It just plain doesn't work.
It doesn't convert the quicktime movies shot by my camera (A Lumix DMC-FZ3). When I try to encode them (using the latest version, 0.16), it kicks out this error many times "Subsampling in JPEG-LS is not supported." I consulted the documentation which claims that JPEG-LS is, in fact, supported. Go ahead and experiment with the ones I gave you.
I want audio-video sync issues fixed; anytime I try to convert a file (typically already converted from ogg -> uncompressed avi), the audio and video go severely out of sync after a few seconds.
I want the ability to rotate in incriments of 90 degrees (clockwise our counter clockwise).
I've coded the rotation bit.. but I'm having issues with the ffmpeg windows build. Fking windows compiler crap. In any case, what if I setup a webpage where you can simple upload videos and it will transcode them for you? Web application. Save me the pain of deailing with windows. Thoughts? --Gmaxwell01:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, the problem with that idea is that you yourself become the bottle-neck ;)
In the short term, for a low volume of vidoes, I suppose that would work, but I'd much rather have a functioning toolchain of my own. Raul65401:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, if it would make it easier for you, I can, in the short term, use a linux-only version provided it was statically compiled - I do not want to go through the hell of having to make sure I have 50 other programs already installed. Raul65405:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Three reasons: The first, A significant number of respectable people strongly believe it does not remotely meet our feature picture requirements. I felt it would be disrespectful to their position to allow it to continue. Secondly, My interest in listing the image stemmed from my desire to demonstrate that the FPC process works counter to goal of encouraging the creation of quality media on Misplaced Pages, and I believe my point was made. And finally, I found the last oppose hurtful and I would rather not see the featured picture process continue if it will result in me being subjected to attacks as I have seen in a number of other FPCs. If you desire you may undue my withdraw, but be aware that I've unwatchlisted the page and will no be responding to any further comments. --Gmaxwell00:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about my comment Gmaxwell. Didn't mean it to offend. I'll revise it now that you've put it back. I see what you doing and support you fully in it. Jeeb01:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah I'd like you do un-withdraw it. #1 everyone has different opinions, there are quite a few supports. #2 I have removed the comment and replaced with a note about WP:CIVIL. -Ravedave00:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi Gregory, I hope you're not too busy and have time to have a look at this request. I have uploaded Image:Metropolitan Areas of Mexico.svg but it does not show up in the description page. The map was created with Inkscape, but I have uploaded as "plain svg". My guess is that the problem lies on the image size itself (in KB), but I have no way to know better. Since you seem to be the SVG expert around here, I was hoping you could have a look and figure out what's wrong. Would be appreciated. Regards -- RuneWelsh | ταλκ19:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh interesting. I see that you have some linked images (such as C:\Documents and Settings\Rune Welsh\Desktop\zonasmet2.png) in the file.. those need to go. I'm not sure yet what is causing us not to render it... but I am actively looking at it now. --Gmaxwell23:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I was drawing on top of that image, and some others too. All references to external images should go I guess, since they are not used anymore. Thank you for your help. -- RuneWelsh | ταλκ10:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
video formats
Hello, you removed a link in Apollo 11 because of propriatary video formats (MPEG or Quicktime). Which video formats are proprietary and which aren't? Is there some Misplaced Pages policy against linking to them? Bubba73(talk), 22:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. As documented in WP:EL we avoid external linking to content which should be in Misplaced Pages itself. Unfortunately most video formats are encoumbered by patents for both encoding and decoding. We accept Ogg/Theora videos on Misplaced Pages, because Theora is the only current state of the art codec which is substantially free of patent problems. The downside of Theora is that Windows and Mac systems do not support it out of the box (much as was the case for Mpeg4 or other formats just a couple of years ago). Instructions for these formats can be found on our Misplaced Pages:Media help page. In the next couple of months we will enable an inline player which should greatly increase the accessability of these files. --Gmaxwell23:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
OK. Then will it be possible to take videos that are free of copyright (such as the Apollo 11 videos) and convert them into the proper format, and include them directly in WP? Bubba73(talk), 00:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Please let me know when you have your Java Ogg video/audio players. FORscene is designed to support any number of codecs, and with a Linux distribution of the Misplaced Pages formats it will be a simple matter to enable re-publishing of existing FORscene videos in these formats.
As you appreciate, FORscene can provide a complete hosting service, which makes using it very simple. I would imagine that FORscene's Misplaced Pages publishing interface would mirror this by asking for the licensing conditions and associated messages, and then uploading any published videos automatically to the media servers here. Do you know of an automated interface at the Wiki end? Stephen B Streater23:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Possibly dumb question about PDF
I'm trying to understand more about this video linking thing (re Stephen's RFA :-). What is the difference between putting an external link to a PDF on Misplaced Pages and an external link to a video hosted on a external site in a proprietary format? If I read the article about PDF, it states PDF is a proprietary format, but nobody ever yelled at me about adding PDF links to Misplaced Pages. Apologies for being a total newbie on this (I would like to learn :-). --Ligulem10:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
It is not a difficult question: we routinely remove externals to content which belongs in Misplaced Pages proper, including content which has been saved into PDFs. PDFs are often provided by the official/authoritative sources (government offices, for example), and we are far more tolerant of such links. When it comes to formats, PDF isn't (usually) in the same group as most video codecs, because most PDFs are not created with any patent encumbered features... Truly free PDF encoding and decoding software exists and ships with Linux distros which include only free software. If we found someone linking to, for example, DRM enabled PDFs we would remove those links. Keep in mind, there is no technical reason that we don't permit the uploading of patented formats, the decision is intentional, and efforts to circumvent our upload restrictions via external linking are not smiled on... --Gmaxwell04:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining and thank your for your patience. I was not aware that Misplaced Pages has such a purist standpoint and as such I apparently didn't understand the Foundation issues as well. As I understand it at the moment, in this special case (videos), freeness of content requires freeness of format and codec software, so that there must be a GPL or similar free licensed codec with the quality and features of Stephen's codec to be able to benefit from Stephen's technology. So Stephen's company in fact would have to release their codec patent under a free license in order for Misplaced Pages to accept the video links Stephen put on Misplaced Pages, right? --Ligulem08:09, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
That's how I see it - except Misplaced Pages would be happy to host this content too, as internally stored content is always pregerable where attainable. Stephen B Streater10:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Ferrofluid image
Original
Edit 1
Greg -- I was having a hard time trying to choose between a couple of your ferrofluid images to nominate on WP:FPC. In the end I thought the one showing the magnet under glass was the most encyclopedic, but it seemed a little dark on my monitor. I downloaded it and did some selective levels work on it, and cropped it as well. If you'd take a look at it, and tell me if it meets with your approval, I'd appreciate it. Here are thumbnails to the original and the edit: -- Moondigger03:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The crop is fine, I prefer the one I posted because I think the tighter crop causes both the bottom of the image to dominate and the image to lose its visual center and containment (that is, it becomes somewhat overwhelming and the eye skims over it rather than being captured). That is fairly subjective stuff, and the Misplaced Pages preference tends towards very tight crops... I think our cropping has ruined a lot of images, but in this case there is no harm caused, it's just not my preference.File:Ff noise comparison.pngMoondigger edit on left, orig on right
However, I'm not quite so sure about the levels adjustments. I see two issues with them. The first of which is somewhat nictpicky, the levels change has caused quantization noise in the dark areas of the image. Of course, this is to be expected working from 8 bit images.. and the image was already close enough to the camera noise floor. Perhaps it's not quite so obvious on your display. This is a crop from the left side, but I especially dislike it from the right side right above the glass. In any case, this only an issue when looking at it at 100% on my display.File:Ff highlight detail.pngMoondigger edit on left, orig on right
The other issue I see with the levels adjustment is, however, more significant. In adjusting the levels you've blown out the highlights on the ferrofluid. This couldn't be avoided without avoiding any levels adjustment on the highlights because in my original image they were riding the rails (and, in fact, were the basis for setting my gain...). I consider this issue problematic not due to any religious distaste for clipped pixels, but rather because it changes the apparent shape of the highlights, taking them from something rounded (as the fluid is) to something more sharply shaped, the result is inaccurate, and to me unappealing. This change is visible on the thumbnails (well, it is obvious on the image page sized thumbnail, I couldn't call it good or bad on the smaller thumbs). If we are to avoid this we could simply adjust the levels on everything but the highlights, but I really prefer the contrast created by the maximum brightness highlights and the medium key background, oh what I would give for displays that go to 11. --Gmaxwell04:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Good points. My edits were quick attempts to see if I could make it more opposition-resistant, based on what I'd guess people might object to. I'll admit I hadn't noticed the quantization noise until you pointed it out, but it's visible on my monitor as well. I wasn't looking for it previously, and I think it's something the FPC crowd would be less likely to comment on than overall image brightness. (When I've done product photography of dark objects in the past, I have always made a point of overexposing by a stop or more, hoping to avoid problems with lost detail and noise in the darkest areas.) I also agree that the change in the shape of the highlights is a problem. Maybe something could be done with levels that's less drastic than what I did?
The crop was just to make the ferrofluid occupy a bigger percentage of the frame w/r/t the background, again because I'm assuming the FPC crowd would prefer the main subject to dominate. Side by side I think the cropped version would garner less opposition than the uncropped, but I've been wrong about people's preferences before.
I'll nominate the original or a cropped version that hasn't been so drastically levels-adjusted, if you'd like to provide one. Let me know here -- I'll watch your talk page for a reply. -- Moondigger05:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Important
Gmaxwell, I ask you to respond to my latest RfA post here. If I am mistaken, then I apologise for misinterpreting the evidence, but if not then I find this extraordinary. Stephen B Streater19:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Please have a look at my response to the removal of all the external video links I've contributed over the past few months over on Mark Kilby's talk page. I would appreciate a response when you have the time. Rgds. mk01:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Hello Gregory, thanks very much for replying. I have placed some further comments re external video links. Again, I appreciate any time you make available for them. Regards, mk13:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC).
Text analysis
Hi there. At Wikimania you suggested I ping you about getting an account on a machine with text dumps of Misplaced Pages to do some analyses. I'm really eager to run an analysis of the text in the next couple weeks; let me know if this is possible. My email is me@aaronsw.com AaronSw13:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Gregory Maxwell, just wanted to write you and express my appreciation for your having taken a look at this image question and edited accordingly. Thanks. (→Netscott)21:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
If the author of the image did not argue that it is new anti-semitism, then why is the image on an article about anti-semitism? --Gmaxwell02:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
How the hell should I know? just kidding...The picture/poster, content aside, is pretty cool, imo. The creator is wasting their time with that garbage...anyways...--Tom02:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Simple request
I usually learn by example here, but I couldn't find an example which does what I want.
Is it possible to have an icon appear in an article which I can click on to play the video (assuming installed plug-in etc)? I'm looking for something lik this (but not necessarily with the first frame graphic - a Commons icon would be OK too). If you have time, I'd appreciate an example as part of your reply. If it's not possible, then this might be a good area for me to fix. Stephen B Streater10:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Just been trying out your JOrbis player using the sample from The Ruts page and it doesn't seem to work very well on a dialup connection. The sample comes in a number of short bursts, presumably due to the low bandwidth available. Is there any way you can add an option for dialup users so that the sample is downloaded to a tempory file before the playing starts? I know this will delay hearing the sample but perhaps you can include a progress bar or something. Other than that, the 'play in browser' seems pretty good. Regards, Ian Dunster13:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
LOL! - Just after I wrote the above I got a persistant 'motorbike' sound after using the 'Stop' button. I think this may be a bug in either the Ogg Vorbis plug-ins or one in Firefox, as it stopped when I closed all my browser windows. Ian Dunster13:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the stop button is somewhat buggy and on my list to fix. It will download the file in the background and start playing when it has it. I'll see if I can add a progress bar. Thanks for your feedback. --Gmaxwell13:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
It worked on my Mac with Safari - after I had rejected giving trash permissions to the program. The point of Java is that you don't need to trust the other person - and this player doesn't seem to need it, even though it asks. Stephen B Streater13:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
It needs to connect to a third host (upload.wikimedia.org), so it shouldn't have worked after rejecting the permissions. I wanted to get a good handle on usage before setting up a proxy to relay the media through the wikimedia toolserver. Thanks for this datapoint. --Gmaxwell13:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. It now gives java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.net.SocketPermission upload.wikimedia.org:80 connect,resolve). Either its a question of belief, and you've sidestepped by total belief in your programming abilty by convincing me it shouldn't work, so we've no entered that reality, or I subliminally do trust you and clicked the wrong button by mistake ;-) I'll try again later, perhaps after clearing some cookies out, and let you know. There was definitely a siren in the background earlier. Stephen B Streater15:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
It will now work in an untrusted manner (and won't prompt to be trusted..). I've set up the proxy I mentioned above. --Gmaxwell02:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I came to see if there was a timeline for the inline video player but found this instead. It played for me; xp home, ie6, 1mbps broadband, just audio - right? mk21:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback! Yes, it's just audio for now. Although with about 15 minutes work I could provide video as well. There is another project to add full inline able video support through the same underlying java applets. That work is still a couple of months off... I saw no reason why I couldn't toss up a quick hack since the demand is obviously there. Today I resolved the need for trusted java, so now the module should work fully sandboxed. Next I'll rework the player page to make it a little more user friendly, then add some places for users to give feedback. Once audio is nice and stable, I'll make video work the same way. That should hold us over until the real support is done. --Gmaxwell02:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Video will be great - I look forward to that. Looking at other threads, I wonder what will be the next hill to climb - perhaps it will be infringement - but for that to be a problem of note, WP will have to have moved up a gear in terms of uploaded footage. So if it does become an issue it will also be a blessing. mk12:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
elo, i have no clue how these discussion things work but i've enconterd that little motorbike. annoying, you really should have put up a warning of some sort... also when i play stuff in iTunes it like speeds it up, sounds really wierd... now excuse me while i try to stop this annoying sound...-anonymous
Hello, i have just tried out the JOrbisPlayer with the Colors of noise samples. When one got turned off, it froze-looped in my sound system (the same tiny amount of sound gets played over and over again very fast). I believe it was the pink one, i can't quite remember. Anyway it's nothing a reboot might solve, but still the issue needs signalling so that a solution might be found. For info, I'm running Firefox with cable connection and the latest JVM on WinXP SP2. SmegEd19:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Compare the info which Judith Sims wrote and the illegal info Devios and Zoe revert to. Putting or reverting to copyright info on wikipedia's website is considered VANDALISM!!! Read carefully. You will find copyrighted info on wikipedia's website. This is against the law.
There is still a lot more info that I think may be copyright violations still left in the article. Devios and Zoe have broken wikipedia's rules. Check the history of GSE article. Then you will have to revert way back to BEFORE Devios put copyrighted material on wikipedia's website. This is an ongoing problem with Devios all over wikipedia. This person is taking copyrighted material and dumping it on wikipedia's website without permission from the copyright holder. Thanks again for all your help. And good luck trying to STOP Devios and this user's VANDALISM.
JOrbisPlayer trouble
Hey dude, very nice your player, bug its bugging with me, I started listing a song well, when i hit Back in the browser, 2 seconds of the song keeps repiting... even after i close the tab. (I'm using Opera 9.01 for Windows) --R2cyberpunk19:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Yet, it works for me with WinXP Home SP2 and Opera 9.02, "Back" (button or alt-rightarrow) stops "labiodental flap" while it is playing. Sometimes "Stop" doesn't! (I know a negative example proves nothing--just thought you'd like to know.) —Xojo (talk) 19:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Some other trouble here too: Clicking "stop" caused a loud buzzing that hasn't stopped even after closing the browser (IE 6.0 / Windows XP Home). I opened another window to play the sound hoping it would stop the buzzing, but the new sound played parallel to the buzz, and when I clicked "stop" it added a new buzz. The two buzzes are buzzing on harmoniously as I type.Dan Pelleg00:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Indeed the buzzing sound is a major issue - in Firefox if you play in browser and then click 'back' during play you get a very grating mechanical feedback that won't go away for some time unless you shut down your browser. I'll be happy to provide more detailed reports/testing for you if you like. Richard00104:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Musical examples in tuning articles
It would be appreciated if you took it to an appropriate talk page before making the same major edit to ten different articles. It wasn't urgent for you to make such a change, and there may be some other solution other than simply removing the content. We (the members of the wikiproject to which all of these pages belong) would like to have such a discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Tunings, Temperaments, and Scales. Would you care to join in there? - Rainwarrior20:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Are you talking about the talk page comments left *after* my changes? The links are, quite simply, not acceptable. If you'd like to submit content to wikipedia, then please submit content under our requirements... please don't circumvent our policy with respect to copyright and formats by external linking. --Gmaxwell20:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I have some questions about WP:EL with regard these links. It seems to me that the strongest reason for disallowing them is that the authorship and copyright information cannot be determined by the reader. However, this concern doesn't really appear at all in EL, and I'm wondering if it should be added. The wording of EL, specifically "If you do link to such material make a note of what application is required." suggests that these links are occasionally acceptable (as well, there is a distinction made between "guideline" and "policy" which weakens this position as well). At this point I'm not arguing that the links were acceptable (as I think the issue of authorship/copyright is an important one), but the wording of EL doesn't make it clear at all that the links a "not acceptable", and I think some changes should be made. I've seen all sorts of debate about what is acceptable as an external link, and it would really help to have a more strongly worded language (or maybe upgrade it to policy) with better explanation of its reasons.
I'm sorry if my reversion came off as "condescending", but I didn't see justification for it by your edit summary, and it removed material that I actually thought was one of the best things about their articles: being able to hear compositions in such a temperament. It wasn't my material, but I thought it was valuable (and I still think it's valuable), though at this point I can see at least one good reason for disallowing it. Do you have any thoughts about EL with regard my comments above? - Rainwarrior22:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I have to say that my interpretation of the flexible-sounding phrasing on the WP:EL guideline as advisory rather than compulary got a mauling by a few people at my RfA. When I looked into this, it turns out they were right. The logic behind this is that discouraging external links in random incompatible formats encourages people (at some point) to submit content in the effectively universally usable Misplaced Pages supported format, and adding free media content in a free format puts it on the same footing as text - ie allowing and enabling its free re-use. So this all makes sense. This information is not yet widely diseminated to the general Misplaced Pages population, but if interested parties help to spread the word, I think the knowledge will become more widespread. Several people can help with the creation of content in the required format. I think the WP:EL guideline should be amended to make it clear that media can be converted to the free formats available and uploaded instead of being linked to externally, as the correct procedure for getting from external links to supported format is not made clear. Stephen B Streater23:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
After some fiddling I finally managed to make it render. It seems that the calls to the outside images were indeed the problem. Thanks for looking into this anyway. -- RuneWelsh | ταλκ10:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
deleted Image:Friendship_is_a.jpg which seems to criticise EA as a dead end friendship
Hello, I have deleted from the main Esperanza page the image Image:Friendship_is_a.jpg (available from Wikimedia Commons) which in my interpretation seemed to criticise Esperanza as a dead end friendship. If you disagree with this, please discuss the appropriateness of the image on the Esperanza talk page. Thank you. --Tachikoma02:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
After thinking about it, I suppose that you may have intended to suggest that friendship in of itself is the end or destination. I hope you will understand that the image that you had inserted is open to interpretation and may not say to all users what you meant. I also hope you will understand if I suggest that the image not be reinserted on the page, precisely due to this risk of misinterpretation. Please don't feel offended, it's nothing personal. This message will be copied onto the Esperanza talk page as well. Sorry for the trouble. --Tachikoma02:18, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to add that I'm sorry if I misjudged you. To quote from one of my favorite TV shows, "occasionally, I can be callous and strange." Again, sorry. --Tachikoma02:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
You're good at sorting these things out: this user feels he's justified in placing fair use image Image:White p.jpg on his user page in violation of WP image use policy.
Current player doesn't support video. I can do video ... but I want to get all the bugs worked out from audio.. I still have several outstanding. --Gmaxwell18:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I created this image for use on the Poisson process page but it seems to have hit the chopping block for lack of specification of ownership. However, I don't believe such specific designation was available at the time I uploaded this image in 2003 and it certainly wasn't required. (I vaguely recall clicking a checkbox with some generic statement.) Given the semi-permanent nature of image deletion, you might consider notifying the image's original uploader (e.g. on their talk pages) before deleting, especially for these older uploads.
DRV haha
Hi,
So, you want to replace one process with two? People call me a "process-wonk", but it sounds like you've got me beaten by a mile! Have fun with the joke (since I won't be closing it, it could be at DRV for a few weeks, but who knows, really?) Best wishes, Xoloz14:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I would support a discussion about WP:DRV as long as it is done in the right place. I think that there are many people who have issues with it, and even many of us who think we need to keep it agree that it needs some fixes. DRV is just far too ingrained into current policy for its problems to be solved in an eight-day MfD. You're likely to get more (and better) responses at a place like village pump, which is where policy proposals usually go anyway. —Cswrye21:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Arrgh. I've been Wiki-depressed lately, I guess I snapped a little bit. I just de-watchlisted every Misplaced Pages namespace page in my watchlist. I'm going to be editing only main space articles for a while, and maintaining TfD like usual. Regardless, it might have been more appropriate to leave a shorter description. Regards, RyanGerbil10(Kick 'em in the dishpan!)18:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
country statistics
I've just found the country statistics page and would like to ask you, whether you could expand those statistics. I'd especially be interested in the 15.8% "others" of enwiki, statistics about trwiki, fawiki, arwiki and idwiki respectively the countries TR, ID, EG, PK, IR and SA. Thank you very much. Raphael111:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
sound player
Help! every time I try to stop the sound from the experimental sound-thingy, it keeps getting more and more corrupted! (Please respond on my talk page.) tinlv700:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I have also noticed this, when playing a vorbis audio file in firefox 1.5.0.7 (haven't tried any other browser yet). When the sound is stoped either by closing the tab or pressing the stop button sound continues to be heard, a very annoying repetitive low-pitch sawtooth like wave sound. Really don't know how to explain it but it is annoying and the only way to stop the sound is to close the browser. 210.49.176.14711:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
FYI, for some reason animations were not being made into POTDs for a while, but that's no longer the case. Otherwise, it would have been a POTD a long time ago. Better late than never, eh? ;) howcheng {chat} 17:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Just a quick note to let you know that the JOrbis player is working quite well on my Intel Mac running OS X Safari. A suggestion, though: Is it possible to have the player open in a new window rather than going to another page and necessitating hitting the "Back" button after the sample plays to return to the article? That way the reader could listen to the sample while reading the article, which should be providing critical commentary on it. Thanks, — BrianSmithson02:32, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
About the Music Player Beta for Misplaced Pages
I began to listen to a song by Micheal Jackson via the Misplaced Pages Song Player beta. I wasn't too fond of MJ's song, so I clicked backspace. Much to my dismay, my sound was utterly destroyed. I now continually hear a repition of a small part of his song, and I have no way to fix this other than restarting my comptuer. I was told to come here and submit any problems I had with the Beta. I'm pretty sure others have experienced this problem. I'd just like to bring it to your attention if it hasn't already been so.
images
hi there! in my various travels around wikipedia, i fell into your user page and was particularly impressed by your photography. i've been working on Barbecue sauce via Misplaced Pages:Spotlight of late and it could really use a pith image. there is a request for image place somewheres around i know, but gosh durn it i like your work a whole lot. think you can scare up a good shot of BBQ sauce? :) JoeSmack (p-review!) 23:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi
I remember a while ago you removed an image from an ethnicity page saying "the image is not fair use it's a decoration", now there is a similar image on Arab. What do you think about the image on that page? Is that fair use? --ManiF03:14, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for making the music player. I was hoping someone on wikipedia would get around to making something like this. I really enjoy it and it works great! Remember21:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Fair use images in lists
Hello, I see you have contributed your thoughts to Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use/Fair use images in lists. It's been dead for a while, but I have archived it and taken a new fresh start. I hope this time we will be able to achieve something as I have summarized the main points of both sides (feel free to improve them) and I call you to express your support or oppose on the concrete proposal that I have formulated. Thanks, Renata02:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
The image is a serious introduction of unsourced POV in the article. You hold the position that the icecream cone is a cause of her obesity. It should be qualified as an opinion proponent of the position or removed entirely. The standing version leave the connection between the icecream cone and her obesity as an implied fact which we can't allow to stand if we are to keep the article neutral.--Gmaxwell00:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Jorbis player in Hungarian
Hi!
I am an administrator at huwiki and would be interested in linking to your player in a similar fassion as the Vietnamese wiki does. I'm writing to ask, if translating the "landing page" would be possible? If so please let me know, so I can start working on it. Regards, and thanks for your tool --Dami18:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
your help to Kelly Martin
Hello,
I see that Kelly Martin credited you with help on the page that gives info on what countries edits to various different language wikipedias originated from. Great work! I fear that this work is going to stop or slow down, and find it very valuable. Is there some way that I could help? I've contacted Kelly too, but no answer yet. many thanks,
If you go to the old vote and exclude the users who didn't make any substantial contributions to English Misplaced Pages after the vote you'll find that the results were overwhelmingly in favor of enabling nofollow.
I have just been through the first 14 (of 61) voters to "disable nofollow on en" at the list at meta meta nofollow and 11/14 of them have edited en dozens of times recently (ten in the last week and one other has edited .de recently). I don't need to go through the other 47 who voted "disable nofollow" because only 12 people voted to keep nofollow on en, but I am sure they are around too. The "overwhelmingly in favour" seems well, fallible. I doubt you've got 20%. On the en vote Misplaced Pages:Nofollow I have just tried a straw sample of 20 people each who voted for and against. Surprisingly a high proportion of both are still active (17 and 16). No way you can fairly call this majority "disable" suddenly an "overwhelming majority enable" it still looks 60% disable.
This trick on wikitech was a bit of a hijack of democracy. By all means open a proper discussion but you should not have gone ahead on the basis of a few people on a tech list when there was a strong majority of the community opposed last time the subject was discussed. In the meantime *please* could I ask you to abide by the last community decision and not that it matters but Jimbo's personal view too Jimmy Wales on nofollow, and disable nofollow throughout en until you have a consensus to overturn the past. Most people haven't even noticed (I only just did) so we could revert and take a proper process without any upset.
I have just seen another survey of a handful of people on a Wikispam site. Perhaps you meant that one... but the other much bigger more public ones were left especially at Meta. --BozMotalk17:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Anyway I guess there was no deliberate minority conspiracy, just a failure to understand the breath of an issue and failure to engage people as well as all the previous times it had previously gone the other way. My role as democracy policeman is done. --BozMotalk18:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Results of restricting anon experiment
Hey: I heard you were crunching the numbers, and trying to quantify the effect of disabling page creation for anonymous users. Have you gotten anywhere on that (or was I misinformed?)? I ask because Jimbo ordered that done back in January or so of this year, so the first anniversary is coming up soon. It'd be good to know what effect it has - even a null result like "nothing apparently changed" would be useful, since one could then argue it's an unnecessary restriction, for example. Thanks. --Gwern (contribs) 20:10 27 November2006 (GMT)
play in browser
Hey!
good work making the play music in browser applet... its pretty good stuff
Hello : Yes, when it works, it's fine, but since some days, the "play in browser" seems to be silent ! I have this message : "Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/gmaxwell/public_html/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php on line 66" --Sonusfaber20:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
My first aquaintance playing O_Canada with this java applet brought me the identical message. My environment: Sun Java Version 1.5.0_09-b03, Firefox 2.0, Win XP SP2. --KaPe14:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
From Cazzolla: I love the audio playing in the browser. Is it possible to play Theora video in browser as well?
I too, am having difficulty with the beta player. While the instructions and stop button appear, but the aforementioned line of code appears as well, and it refuses to make a sound.
Sorry. The Wikimedia server that runs this is currently having problems. I'm going to try to implement a workaround tonight. --Gmaxwell21:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey, just wanted to say hi and thank you for coming to the WikiMeetup in NYC this past weekend. Thanks also for taking pictures...much appreciated. —ExplorerCDT04:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Mongo
I should point out that I have not analysed the entire MONGO case (yet; it's a long case). Rather, since I was asked, I have analysed the proposed decision. It is my understanding that this page lists the facts and reasonings the arbiters have used to reach their decision. It is my opinion that the finding that MONGO abused his admin tools does not accurately reflect the facts (e.g. it is not abusive to unprotect a page when a dispute there has ended) and omits some relevant facts (e.g. that he protected a page in a version he personally disagreed with). If a finding is incorrect, no motion should be based on this finding.
Do trust me on one thing: if I were truly politically-minded, I would never have involved myself with finding a resolution to the WP:CHILD controversy. (Radiant) 17:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
JOrbisPlayer
Hi, it's working fine, but the following keeps appearing before the play/stop button:
"Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/gmaxwell/public_html/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php on line 66"
Since it seems to be functioning I'm not complaining, but you might want to suppress / remove the bit of code that's causing it, since it's presumably non-essential; if nothing else it might reduce the number of messages you get here :) – Gurch05:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
It's working nonworkinness depends on if the file is a commons sourced file or an enwiki uploaded file. Without access to the database I can't form the correct URL to obtain the file. --Gmaxwell08:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
All the ogg files I try to listen with JOrbisPlayer are Commons sourced. before the actual "bug" all these files worked fine.--Sonusfaber10:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I have issues with it too. Same error (Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/gmaxwell/public_html/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php on line 66). I was trying to listen to Vivaldi's 4 seasons.--Bud10:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that continuous playback in the player is rather distracting. There should be two buttons for play and stop. Or perhaps just one - play/pause. --Derbeth19:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Please keep any personal information about me out of phone calls to that agency. It is my place of employment and could cause problems if someone calls making statements about me, using even my Wikpedia username which some people there know as a great number of us have contributed to this site. Awards and decorations of the United States military is actually a reference we use. No problem at all with calling them, no problem with asking any questions you want about the Air Force CD or other policies they have. Just avoid conversations about specfic people who work there as that could have serious ramifications. -Husnock07:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm always careful about that sort of thing. Basically I'm trying to discover the the authorship of the images and obtain them independently. You'll never come into such discussions. --Gmaxwell07:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Fault
media player fault:
Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/gmaxwell/public_html/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php on line 66--I'll bring the food22:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're getting at. It would be far better to raise whatever issue is troubling you on the talk page of the article, so that we can involve the key contributors, if necessary. Rather than asking a question, please state your concerns explicitly.
I'd be pleased if you reviewed the guidelines for using music examples at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Composers, if you have the required knowledge of copyright and fair use on WP.
Who removed them, if not you? I have seen no proper argument against their fair use. The text that you've thus far come up with is most unconvincing.
You haven't heard the end of this matter. And I can assure you that I'll be removing any sound excerpts that are subsequently added to that article, if there's the slightest thing wrong with them. There will be. Tony23:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't fully understand what you are saying there. Obviously I would not add any work to the article which was not freely licensed, so I do not see how there would be any problems. Obviously, if you were aware of any I'd want you to point them out. --Gmaxwell03:38, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
If you need some fair use audio excerpts, i can slam some Bach out on the piano...and record it. After 17 years of piano lessons, I should do something worthwhile with it. —ExplorerCDT14:22, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
"I have nothing to say about accusations about a "7 day rule", first of all I didn't delete anything, secondly copyright violations are always speedy deletable.
I answered your question with respect to the audio by linking you to the recordings we have. I have answered you over and over again. You ignore my words and respond only with attacks. We have several of high quality and on the correct instruments. Although, even if we didn't that would be no excuse to breach our fundamental mission of free content. Something of an aside, do you have something against Bach's extensive organ repertoire? It's one of the most substantial parts of his work but you have paid it very little attention."
A rule is a rule, and you've been mixed up in the breaching of it. Nothing you've said about this breach remotely justifies it. I find the rest of your statements tangential, and I certainly believe that the currently worded policy does not support the stance that you and Danny are taking.
I was a professional organist for 30 years. The standard of recordings of Bach's organ repertoire is generally not good. However, I'm willing to audition any that you think are good enough for inclusion in the article.
1. Perhaps that is because I think legalistically. As I said, the wording of the FU rules is now a major problem, as is the management of this new push.
It is extremely rare that anything on Misplaced Pages gets me angry, but when I read the log from Christmas Eve I was furious. I saw unending cowardice from people sniping at enemies, denigrating whole classes of editor, and, rather than elitism, self-satisfaction. It turned my stomach and then some. You were by no means the most offensive player, and you have already correctly guessed who was (and probably who was second). There was one thing that I felt you had done "to" me. That I addressed with you. Other people think that I'm reading the exchange wrongly. If so, I apologize. The central issue, however, has never wavered: no part of anything that might be called "Misplaced Pages"-anything should be used as a platform for private chat designed to harm others, to share and create negative impressions. The fact that en.admins is being used at this very moment to have a good, shared tear down of me is evidence of how addictive such insults must be. I do not spend my time (nor is it "my job") to go looking through user pages to find things to disagree with.
If there are sides, and God forbid that there are, then "my side" has been active about unblocking people, about demanding that we follow a single set of rules, that we do not get trigger happy. The things we have "whined" about have, in every instance, been the use of blocks and undeletes. They have been protests at misuses of administrative powers. To my knowledge, no one has had a single instance of any of "us" using administrative powers against consensus or policy. I have never heard a complaint that we're looking to tear down people. (Well, Kelly, on her blog, appeared to think that had to be the explanation.)
If people can "always do that stuff by e-mail," then that's by e-mail. That has no "Misplaced Pages" attached to it. It isn't our donations being used to fund and supply it. That's not a recruitment venue.
I'll say this about where I get my information: it isn't from the extremely ethical and scrupulous Bishonen. Instead, look to friends who may be too frightened to say anything. Look to people who might need a stuntman like me.
As for you and I, I never wanted to fight with anyone, and I didn't want to pick on you, but I will say and stand by the following: it is your ethical duty, as it is mine, to put the brakes on a mugging in progress. I have done so more times than I can count, and some recently and public. If the abuse-ready en.admins is going to stay in business, you can do your part to stop the venom. Geogre01:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I think it's regrettable that the whole thing blew up in that way, and would like the rules to be cast in such as way as to forestall misunderstandings. I guess I owe you an apology for being ... not nice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony1 (talk • contribs)
JOrbis Player trouble
I used to the JOrbis Player to play a file found on the Misplaced Pages. Everything went just fine, and I played several more files with no trouble. What I noticed later was a 1/2 second-or-so segment of a file playing every 2 or so seconds. The sound continued after all tabs containing the player were closed. I would guess that I closed the tab the player was running in while it was playing. I don't know yet if closing Firefox will stop the sound. Speaking of which, I am running Firefox version 2.0.0.1 on WinXP SP2 with Java version 1.5.0 (build 1.5.0_09-b03). I think this version is out of date. 24.17.150.6803:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
JOrbis player is very capricious ! Since some days, it worked fine and since yesterday and today, it seems to start but nothing, no music, total silent ?! The last bug we told about last two weeks has disappered, but now there a new problem. Tank you if you can see that.--Sonusfaber16:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Re: CC-by-sa
Luckily, the Flickr users I talked to are more interested in protecting their images than being named "throbbing monster cock" ;-) This user, in example, wants his real name to appear. I guess there is a little of ego working there, but if it helps us to get a little closer to our goal of freedom, why not accept it? It is no different from the comments in source files in the Linux Kernel stating who wrote the original version of a determined file. My concern continues to be whether this "exception" fits GFDL. I would hate to go to a RFC/RFAR with another user for including/removing a name from an image caption. -- ReyBrujo15:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. Someone linked to a wikitech-l pasting of yours, and I responded here: "One response there, from Gmaxwell, is: "If the operator of the bot is not trusted enough to have access to deletion or blocking, why do you trust him enough to have access to protection?" - my response to this would be that the bot will be running unsupervised, and there are concerns that defects in the code could lead to the other admin powers being used a vandal/hacker who exploits said defects to start deleting and blocking, rather than protecting and unprotecting. It is a request designed to limit the potential damage that could be done by the other admin tools if an unsupervised adminbot account was compromised. If the bot ran awry and was manipulated to do stuff, undoing mass protections and unprotections would be easier to fix and less damaging than the other stuff (such as deleting and blocking). I've posted to User talk:Gmaxwell to see if he wants to respond here."
To expand on the above, User:Hipocrite posted this on the RfA talk page: "Arbitrary code exception on the bot's machine? No. Arbitrary command execution on wikipedia? Depends on how the bot sends information back to the servers. I have not reviewed the code, nor has, to my knowledge, any python security expert, nor can I rely on distributed error checking to review the code, and as such, you just don't know what happens if a page to be protected has the following on it -> . Does it load and recurisvely protect everyting on malicioustemplate%2%6%9deleteallcontributions? Does it attempt to load and recursively protect the page deleteallcontributions, which has now resulted in the protection of the entire encyclopedia (oops!) Does it load http://en.wikipedia.com/w/deleteallcontributions and fail? I don't know! I can think of more way to beat the bot, but I'm just shooting in the dark. Real security audits involve reviewing the code."
That is the sort of concern I think people have, and which would be addressed by limiting the bot's tools to protection. Carcharoth14:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
