Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason (talk | contribs) at 20:38, 15 February 2005 (Misplaced Pages:Nofollow/Vote). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

My associates and I have installed the wikimedia-1.1.0 software at http://www.wikinfo.org, alternative address, http://www.internet-encyclopedia.org/. It is hosted by ibiblio.org. The wikidata base dump was not installed. Software has been developed which allows easy importing of Misplaced Pages articles and to date about 30,000 have been imported. Certain policies have been changed from Misplaced Pages although the notion of using American English has been abandoned; International English is used. The concept of neutral point of view for each article has been changed to a policy of accepting a cluster of articles with differing points of view. Several policies which have been observed to cause tension on Misplaced Pages have been liberalized. See Wikinfo. Fred Bauder 13:51, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It may be useful when trying to locate information on a book to try the search engine at Redbaud.com

Material has been removed here and placed in User talk:Fred Bauder/Archive 1, User talk:Fred Bauder/Archive 2, User talk:Fred Bauder/Archive 3, User talk:Fred Bauder/Archive 4 and in User talk:Fred Bauder/Archive 5

Ruy Lopez

Ruy Lopez violated remedy #4 (Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Gzornenplatz, Kevin Baas, Shorne, VeryVerily) two times, reverting the article about Joseph Stalin with no attempt at discussion ( ). What to do? Boraczek 22:59, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Soviet Union

The text you added to Soviet Union did not fit into the structure of the article, which summarizes main articles on specialized areas (history, politics, foreign relations, economy, republics, demographics). Note that Politics of the Soviet Union is blank. I suggest that you use it as a basis to start an article there. 172 13:05, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I moved it to Politics of the Soviet Union. 172 13:08, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fred, why don't you move the text you added about Soviet Union to Wikinfo, where articles expressing one of the positions are welcome? It was clearly written without the NPOV goal in mind and doesn't belong in a neutral article. Paranoid 22:36, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think your changes to the Soviet Union article were the best hope to have an article that tells the whole history of the country. I am trying to find sources for everything I put in the article although I doubt they will be acceptable to 172 who seems to have a very strong POV. Libertas

Agree, totally, he is artful but the end result is dismal. It's a strange article indeed on the USSR that doesn't mention political repression etc! It's kind of like arguing the sky is green. I don't really know how to rebut such a POV. I tried to make some changes which have been rejected by Paranoid and would no doubt be similarly rejected by 172. I think reverting is pointless (tried that!) so I'll just leave the article as it is with the appropriate tag. I would like to work with you on fixing it. I don't like communists, and I don't pretend otherwise but I think I am capable of improving the article without an agenda. Libertas

LOL, yes, I will come up with sources wherever I can find them, although I notice 172 denounces sources other than his own! Even the BBC! Libertas

Noting the text that you added on totalitarianism to the Soviet article, I added a subsection on internal security to the politics section of the article. This way, we can deal with the subject while fitting it into the structure of the article. 172 09:57, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the note. I don't know if it was a concession, though. I was happy to add it once I'd figured out how to fit it into the current structure-- the more links to specific institutional pillars of the regime in that article the better... Regarding Politics of the Soviet Union, I spent a few minutes copyediting it before getting your note. I can see a structure starting to coalesce there. It turns out that your "text dump" was a pretty good basis for starting that article. I'm sorry for being too critical when I first saw it... Also, thanks for you intent to talk with Libertas. 172 11:53, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fred, I welcome your intervention. I don't want to - or want to be seen to - be browbeating 172. I am challenging his POV and he is responding. I get the impression he doesn't like being challenged and I guess none of us do but he is certainly capable of standing up for his POV. It seems I am not the first user to incur 172's wrath and probably won't be the last. I am certainly digging up more quality references to Soviet dictatorship, although it seems he is conceding on that point, perhaps. Now he just wants the reference buried deep in the article. He is clever. But the article is suffering from his clever POV pushing. Libertas

I'm proposing the idea of replacing the Soviet Union article with Soviet Union/temp, which is based on LOC text (something that can satisfy all the contending points of view). Given all the browbeating going on on the talk page, this strikes me as the only way of reworking the article so as to get it unlocked. Please take a look if you're interested. Thanks. 172 15:31, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Blocks of Irate and Cookiecaper

I was under the impression that the third revert was the blockable offense. I don't really care, I'll unblock these characters on your authority. JFW | T@lk 07:58, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Closely related

Sir, in your posting regarding the LaRouche Arbcom decision, here, you state that Frederick Wills is "closely related" to Lyndon LaRouche. I have been reviewing Wills' life and find little available outside of LaRouche sources (and little within LaRouche either). I have written a biography drawn from the few web-available sources. He is marginally notable as a foreign minister under a minor dictator, a leading cricket player of his time and country, and a co-founder of the Schiller Institute. Yet he is not mentioned in the articles on LaRouche or the Schiller Institute, so claims of his importance to LaRouche and Schiller Inst. seem hollow. From LaRouche sources, he was not even an officer of the Schiller, just a board member. If his name did not appear on the Template:LaRouche, only one article would link to his biography, an article on Third World debt moratorium. So there is nothing to indicate that this man was a close associate of LaRouche. LaRouche has been involved with numerous organizations, with what must have been scores of other board members. LaRouche was not even on the board of the Schiller himself. In short, I am requesting an interpretation of the Arbcom decision. Please reconsider Wills' status as "closely related to LaRouche", and his place on the LaRouche Template. (Please let me know the correct way to proceed with this request if it needs formal approval). -Willmcw 00:13, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wise answer. Thanks. -Willmcw 19:09, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Libertas RFC

I've just opened an RFC regarding RFC's habitual personal attacks and other disruptive behavior. I've no idea if you're able or interested in getting involved, but I figured I owed you the courtesy of letting you know that your comments on his talk page are invoked as evidence. Let me know if you have any concerns. RadicalSubversiv E 03:55, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Radicalsubversiv RFC

Aside from the merits of the case (which has a vast body of evidence going back a long time), I am having technical difficulties creating the the comment page. Can you let me know how I go about doing this. Libertas

I have tried to extend the olive branch to Radical but I gather he's not interested. I appreciate your advice though. There were technical problems saving new pages at the time I had problems. All fixed now. Libertas

Translation of en:Wikinfo

Hello Fred, I translated en:Wikinfo to de:Wikinfo. I left out a few sentences which might offense some people so I have called the translation "partly". --Roland2 15:33, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Image:Marduk02.jpg

The original uploader of this image left two years ago (unless he/she changed usernames), but you seem to have edited it. It has no source on its copyright, so if possible, could you use a copyright tag on it? Thanks, ugen64 01:36, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Same with Image:Marduk ziggurat.jpg. ugen64 01:37, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've never noticed these before and know nothing about their status. They may be homemade or scanned from an older book, judging from their looks. Fred Bauder 10:54, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

SlimVirgin

SlimVirgin deleted information from Richard Mellon Scaife about Scaife's support of "research about Lyndon LaRouche", citing the arbcom decision. This was information that could in no way be construed as "promotion of LaRouche." Is this a legitimate reading of the decision? Weed Harper 16:11, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I deleted the information because there is no source for it other than the LaRouche organization, and Richard Mellon Scaife is not an article that is "closely related" to Lyndon LaRouche; therefore, material that emanates only from the LaRouche organization, with no third-party source, is not allowed to be inserted. The information Weed Harper inserted was the promotion of a Lyndon LaRouche conspiracy theory about Richard Mellon Scaife for which there is no evidence, so it certainly would be regarded as a promotion of LaRouche's ideas, if not a promotion of the man himself. SlimVirgin 17:06, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)

I googled "Richard Mellon Scaife" and "Lyndon LaRouche" and while most of the 400 or so hits were LaRouche sites, not all were, see . Richard Mellon Scaife seems to have taken an independent interest in La Rouche and that has been reported by others, besides La Rouche. Removal of the link to Executive Report was proper, I think, as Richard Mellon Scaife is not an article directly related to La Rouche. I think a one or two sentence mention of his interest in La Rouche is appropriate. Fred Bauder 23:22, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)

Fred, the article you provided, written by Chip Berlet who is now a Misplaced Pages editor, says that Scaife once attended a meeting at which LaRouche was discussed. This was a meeting attended by several others, including journalists. That's far removed from Weed Harper's claim, which he inserted into the Scaife article, viz. "Scaife also was involved in funding research against Lyndon LaRouche", citing a LaRouche publication as his source. The Scaife funding claim is a LaRouche fantasy, and Weed Harper was in clear violation of the ArbCom ruling by inserting it, then inserting it again when I deleted it, as Scaife is not a "closely related" article to LaRouche, except in the minds of LaRouche supporters. Weed Harper also deleted the article's external links while he was there, for reasons best known to himself.

If we mention that Scaife attended a meeting at which LaRouche was discussed, we'll have to mention other meetings Scaife has attended over the years where other people were discussed; or else we'll have to say why the LaRouche meeting was special enough to be singled out by Misplaced Pages for a mention. This is just an attempt to get an unverifiable LaRouche conspiracy theory mentioned. SlimVirgin 19:28, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

I do not find the violation clear. I think there may be other evidence if you look at all 400 of those hits. Fred Bauder 22:23, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

However many hits there are on Google, Fred, this information originated with the Lyndon LaRouche movement. They invented a conspiracy theory called the John Train Salon, which Herschelkrustofsky even created an article about, before it was redirected. At this "salon," a number of people, including Scaife, met with journalists several times, and supposedly plotted the downfall of LaRouche, which is why he was convicted and jailed, according to the movement, and why the media blackened his name. There is no evidence of this conspiracy outside the LaRouche movement. The only "evidence" that exists is an affidavit sworn by a LaRouche member who claims to have information about these meetings. Any Google material you find that appears to confirm this is a false echo. I won't torture you with any more of the details. I personally don't care whether Misplaced Pages says LaRouche is a monster or whether we endorse him for president. The only thing I care about is that we cite sources that are reputable, and they never are with these editors. SlimVirgin 01:24, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

People have tried to deal with the La Rouche movement in various ways and their activities may properly be reported. Fred Bauder 12:26, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

Ironically enough, the reference Fred found on Google to the article by Chip Berlet, is a reference by Berlet to the John Train meeting he attended. --HK 16:49, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Correct, and he's therefore in a position to know that the meeting was not as you and LaRouche describe it. SlimVirgin 01:10, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

Another SlimVirgin caper

I note that SlimVirgin has now removed an external link to the Schiller Institute website from the Friedrich Schiller article. In your view, Fred, is this an appropriate usage of the arbcom decision? --HK 02:50, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

LaRouche's Schiller Institute, a far-right extremist cult, has nothing whatsoever to do with the philosopher Friedrich Schiller or his ideas. We might just as well place a link to Adolf Hilter on the socialism page on the grounds that Hitler called his movement "national socialism." Also, I'm unclear as to the appropriateness of having this discussion on Fred's talk page. If you'd rather we didn't, Fred, please do say. SlimVirgin 02:59, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

As I barely edit on Misplaced Pages, this is an ok place. As to the link, I think it probably belongs in a paragraph in a LaRouche related article, which sets forth details about how the Schiller Institute site relates to La Rouche. Isn't it his wife's project? If you look at the site, it is mostly about La Rouche ideas, with only a gesture towards Friedrich Schiller. Slim's edit was good. Fred Bauder 14:33, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

Autoblock

A block against me expired at 12:34 today. It is now 15:07, and I find myself unable to edit. The reason I am given is: "Autoblocked because you share an IP address with "Jakew". Reason "user page vandalism"." (from the mailing list) Fred Bauder 16:05, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. --fvw* 16:33, 2005 Jan 27 (UTC)

OneGuy in violation of arbitration ruling

Hi. You participated in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/168.209.97.34. OneGuy is violating the part of the ruling against him by continuing to make personal attacks against me. Please see Talk:Islamophobia. This is a quote from OneGuy "Gosh! Are you playing games or are you really this stupid?" Can you please let him know that rules apply to him too? 168.209.97.34 13:46, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Housecleaning

To all those on the ArbCom: Man, you guys cleaned house! Great work. My number one hope for the 2005 ArbCom was that the backlog would shrink due to prompt decisions, and you all surpassed my hopes. My hat's off to you. – Quadell 20:46, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

RfA User:WikiUser

Fred, what is it exactly you don't understand about the concept of recusal? - Robert the Bruce 12:57, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

LaRouche arbitration

FB - I saw your comment on the Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche 2/Proposed decision in which you wrote of HK, "basically he edits in two areas, La Rouche related articles and in classical music." I believe you are incorrect. Here is a list of all the more than 150 articles that the HK team has edited: User:Willmcw/sandbox2 You'll see that only a few are music related (and of those, several of the edits were to express LaRouche theories). Many of the article edits are related to esoteric topics, which are purely LaRouche theories. (Counterculture, Henry Luce, Tavistock Institute, etc).

Separately, the last ArbCom decision on LaRouche banned the re-insertion of LaRouche original research in edit wars. I have presented a complaint about this, but have received no reply from the ArbCom, even to dismiss it. Can you let me know the status of this complaint? Thanks, -Willmcw 23:04, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Fred, the arbom is voting on the disruption aspect, and appear to be voting in accordance with your claim that Herschel edits only in two areas: LaRouche and music. Sannse has changed the vote citing your comment, but your comment is mistaken. Herschel edits in a wide variety of areas, invariably inserting LaRouche material when he gets a chance, or feels he can get away with it. Can you please correct your claim, or provide some evidence for it, so that the vote is based on accurate information? Many thanks, SlimVirgin 02:44, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Attn. Fred:

I am never one hundred percent sure that I understand all the Misplaced Pages rules, but I have read the temporary injunction, and I believe that this post by SlimVirgin and this post by Willmcw are in violation. Weed Harper 21:00, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Herschel, you should read the injunction more carefully. The bold is mine. It says:

"User:Cberlet, User:Willmcw, and User:SlimVirgin are also prohibited from editing articles on Template:LaRouche or creating new articles related to the LaRouche movement pending resolution of this matter, though they may continue to work in the present sandbox articles Talk:Lyndon LaRouche/sandbox, Talk:Political views of Lyndon LaRouche/sandbox and Talk:United States v. LaRouche/sandbox. Arbitration pages relating to this case are not included. This includes editing by anonymous AOL accounts.

The links you provided are to Talk pages, not articles. Cberlet, Willmcw and I have not edited "an article on Template:LaRouche or created new articles related to the LaRouche movement." Regarding my own edit, I copied a recent comment posted by Mrs. Erica Duggan, the mother of Jeremiah Duggan, to the bottom of the most recent Talk page of Jeremiah Duggan, as she had mistakenly posted it to the Talk archives. I added no content of my own. I must say it's nice to see you persist in trying to cause us trouble. SlimVirgin 21:23, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Nofollow/Vote

Template:OS9 –Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 20:38, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)