Misplaced Pages

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Evidence presented by Constanz

The Soviet rule is (most probably always) referred to as occupation in reputable sources

Variety of sources, as was cited on Talk:Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945 (diff):

- '"Ultimatums of June 15, 16, 1940, charged hostile activities; Russia had occupied the Baltics militarily and had arranged for pro-Soviet administrations to request admittance to the Soviet Union."' --Encyclopedia of World History

- '"Nazi-Soviet Pact of Aug., 1939, placed the Baltic countries under Soviet control, and the following month the USSR secured military bases in Estonia. Complete Soviet military occupation came in June, 1940."' Estonia, The Columbia Encyclopedia

- '"Soviet troops occupied Latvia in 1940, and subsequent elections held under Soviet auspices resulted in the absorption of Latvia into the USSR as a constituent republic."' --Latvia, The Columbia Encyclopedia

- Encarta uses it.

- multitude of results on google book search just for for "Soviet occupation" Estonia OR Latvia OR Lithuania

-Also Britannica:

Thus, as I've already claimed with my request, the 3 users - Irpen, Grafikm fr, User:Petri Krohn who dispute the fact of occupation, have engage in promoting MINORITY POV, and rigidly reject the Misplaced Pages:Verifiability principles. Constanz - Talk 10:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Disputing occupation term relies on WP:OR or straw man arguments

Irpen, Grafikm fr, User:Petri Krohn merely use WP:OR or straw man arguments instead of sources. Just some of their 'thesis':

1. “Baltic states joined USSR in 1940” - this here is one's own invention (doesn't satisfy WP:V)
2. Baltic states “were SSRs on their own rights, their representants sieged in the Supreme Soviet” and “All this hardly qualifies as "occupation"” - we can't base a dispute on one's sentiments
3. Calling the events Soviet occupation is called a modern form of Holocaust denial” - Are Western mainstream sources also holocaust-denying? The argument used by P.Krohn and others is esp. malicious (but is often repeated: )
4. The term 'occupation' is said to be “crafted during the Cold War” - again no sources, but own argumentation
5. To support (!) the thesis that Baltic states were not occupied by the USSR it is claimed that Baltic states collaborated quite willingly with Nazi Germany” (more willingly than the USSR 1939-1941?)
6. Another argument why 'occupation didn't take place': “Well, because Baltic people (in average, again) gladly collaborated with Nazis. Something they quite willingly "forget", I wonder why.”

From statements for Request for arbitration, there are following 'arguments' found, which should prove that 'Latvia was not occupied by the USSR':

1. “Anyone who follows political news from this region closely (or even remotely) knows that there is currently a heavy return to nationalism in these three countries, bordering sometimes on Nazism and Holocaust denial”
2. “The heart of the matter here is the Nuremberg style denaturalization laws and the right of the newly independent Baltic States to deprive citizenship from their ex-soviet citizens. The view expressed in this article is the one promoted by the Museum of the Occupation of Latvia, a propaganda tool of the Latvian government”. (diff) - Most probably, P.Krohn also find Britannica and Encarta “propaganda tools” of Western imperialism.
3. About the present article it is said: ”In its present form it only serves as a tool for ethnic POV-pushing and associated hate speech.”
4. “Until 1991 most of the worlds governments saw the incorporation of the Baltic States into the Soviet Union as legal.” - which is obviously false: compare intro of Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945
5. And there are said to be “also sources that show that Latvia and Latvians voluntarily joined the Soviet Union in 1940.” -- Curiously, none have been cited so far! Constanz - Talk 10:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thus, if User:Grafikm fr says that (diff) “while some sort of consensus is not reached, the tag has to stay as a warning for a casual reader” I'm afraid that the tag will remain forever, since how can we achieve a consensus which would include opinions based on original research, straw man arguments or propaganda ideas of And you are lynching Negroes type? How is it possible to reconcile Flat Earth Society members with a modern viewpoint? Constanz - Talk 10:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thus, the result of the dispute carried on by 3 users is disruption. Constanz - Talk 07:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Evidence presented by Martintg (to be completed soon)

POV Tag Initially placed by Ilja

POV tag initially placed by Ilja on November 9th on basis that he personally believed it would affect his residency status in Latvia .

After discussion on talk page with Ilja and addition of section to substantiate correctness of title and no further issue raised by Ilja to reasons to remove tag , consensus assumed and tag removed.

Article tagged non-compliant by Irpen

Irpen initially tags the article non-compliant on Nov 10th along with corresponding discussion as to reasons in "General Criticisms" section in talk . Discussions on this matter continue until Nov 19th, with no further input from Irpen since Nov 14th

While the discussion on the talk page is focused the non-compliant tag, Irpen adds an additional POV-title tag on Nov 13th without any reason given in talk page.

By Dec 5th, after 20 days with no further rebuttal by Irpen of points by Peteris Cedrins on Nov 14 or by Doc15071969 on Nov 19 implying Irpen's dispute is unsustainable, POV-title tag removed by Constanz giving justification on talk, to underline "General Criticisms" section

POV tagging by Grafikm

Grafikm applies the POV-title tag for the first time on Dec 5, immediately after Constanz removed it (see above) , claiming there is no consensus. Ensuing discussion on talk page. Constanz provides verfiable evidence of published sources , while Grafikm offers only conjecture and opinion as to why title is POV.

A third opinion by Grouse on January 6 states that Grafikm ought to provide citations to reliable sources and POV tags cannot be applied without question . And yet Grafikm continues to sustain the dispute up till January 25 without offering any cites to reliable sources, only to claim his uncited, unverifiable opinion that "occupation" is a term crafted during the Cold War as fact .

POV tagging by Ghirlandajo

Ghirlandajo applies the POV-title tag for the first time on Dec 6 , with no justification on talk page, apart from his contribution in regard to Heroization of Fascism:

POV tagging by Petri Krohn

Petri Krohn applies the POV-title tag for the first time on January 15 , on the basis of his personal opinion the article is a form of Holocaust Denial . Yet he offers no cites to reliable sources to sustain his dispute.

Evidence presented by {your user name}

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