This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ilena (talk | contribs) at 21:20, 17 February 2007 (Despite claims ... Barrett & Wallace Sampson were ruled to be "biased and unworthy of credibility" by the Appeals Court ...). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 21:20, 17 February 2007 by Ilena (talk | contribs) (Despite claims ... Barrett & Wallace Sampson were ruled to be "biased and unworthy of credibility" by the Appeals Court ...)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.
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Evidence presented by Wizardry Dragon (Peter M Dodge)
Fyslee and Ilena are valued contributors that have made positive contributions
(Evidence forthcoming)
Fyslee posted an negative website that provoked a strong response
(Evidence forthcoming)
Ilena's responses to Fyslee were inappropriate
(Evidence forthcoming)
Ilena made several pointed personal attacks
(Evidence forthcoming)
Fyslee made unreasonable demands that prolonged the dispute
(Evidence forthcoming)
Evidence presented by Ilena
Fyslee attempted to destroy valuable evidence and Privacy Issues
A. One of the most serious accusations against me, behavior that was called egregious, was that I had somehow outed and endangered Fyslee and his family's safety by posting his real world name on Misplaced Pages. In fact, I found evidence that as recently as December, 2006, on Misplaced Pages, he himself was using his own name right next to his Wiki name. On January 30, 2007, as I began searching for the diffs for this Arbitration, I found the archives had been tampered with. After this was exposed and much ado, he then had the 160 revisions of the Wiki records un-revised.
Here is just one of many links to his websites, as well as several of Barrett's on Misplaced Pages, posted by him. Recently on his user page, he admits that he has used his own name and links on Misplaced Pages, but forbids anyone else to do the same. It feels like he is hiding behind a rule he doesn't follow in order to appear to be victimized by me. Despite his accusations, I have never posted one word of personal information about him, the entire brouhaha is regarding his name ... nothing more, which he has profusely used on Misplaced Pages and the rest of the internet. No addresses, no family discussions etc., nothing but his name. I further believe that his unproven and very possibly false claims that "chiropractors" and "promoters of alternative medicine" have given him death threats is a subtle way of continuing his smear_campaign against the same groups he demonizes throughout the internet. I fully believe that much of what he and his friends call attacks against him, are merely pleas for pity, and an attempt for theatrics. In fact, in this Chirotalk post (2 versions since he is altering the posts) you can clearly see his fantasies of being victimized, Anti-Quackery activist crucified by chiropractors. Scroll down to Reply #14 on Dec 29, 2005, 5:36pm
B. After Fyslee posted a link to Chirotalk during discussions of a lawsuit against Stephen Barrett and Quackwatch on January 30, 2007, I followed his link . I found 668 posts by him with his real world name and fyslee together. I found him called, "..., the wikipedian expert" and on this post Re: Life University Misplaced Pages entry Reply #12 on Jun 5, 2006, 5:45am he was soliciting others from the group to come onto Misplaced Pages and gave precise instructions. When I went back on January 31, 2007, I found that he had removed his own name and administrator status, and replaced it with fys God at 6:06 that morning. On February 1, 2007, it was again revised, this time calling himself Abracadabraarbadacarba and again identifying himself as an administrator, but removing his name which had been there since 2004. Then on, February 15, 2007, he was HerAardvark and today (2/16) he calls himself Cyberstalked from the Jungles. (Update of 2/17/07 ... now he changed the archives yet again, this time to call himself Along the watchtower.)
Most importantly, is reviewing his work on Chirotalk (664 posts) and seeing his frequent discussions of Misplaced Pages and urges to join and help him collaborate with him here Change the 10 to 700 and you will get all his posts. (I have a copy if all 668 are not there any longer.)
C. After finding Chirotalk and watching the above happen, I witnessed another case of disappearing evidence. Here are two versions of the same thread that got altered during the first week of February. The removed comment was "This sounds like a job that (Fyslee's real world name) could help spearhead." Here is the archived version and the altered one -- within 24 hours of each other. (As of 2/16/2007 cache has been deleted and evidence destroyed.)
Fyslee functions on Misplaced Pages and several other internet venues as Barrett / Quackwatch / NCAHF Publicist
In the simplest terms, a public relations or media publicist is one who attempts to get as much positive information as possible into ... and keep as much negative information possible out of ... the public eye. Although fyslee has repeatedly and vehemently denied that he is Barrett's publicist, and claims to have never misrepresented anything, that is absolutely not factual. When caught in blatant lies, he has been known to feign surprise and make apologies and retractions, winning him praise for his flexibility.This is a technique to win favor when caught disseminating blatant disinformation.
Despite repeated claims to the contrary, Fyslee, on Misplaced Pages, and many other places on the internet (blogs, lists, forums, etc.), clearly functions as one of Barrett's (and his related operations) publicists. During his early Wiki days, he was promoting his and Barrett's Healthfraud List where he remained Barrett's assistant from 2000 through 2006. As here on Wiki, he publicized the same Barrett websites . I believe his denials are perfect examples of doublespeak.
In fact, this quote from him shows undeniably that his behavior is as Barrett's publicist. If you have any other matters that need answering, just ask. The answers usually exist, and I know the people who can provide them. Keep in mind that Barrett, the NCAHF, etc. are open about their activities. They have nothing to hide. The information is there if you know where to look. Even participation on the Healthfraud Discussion List requires using ones real name. Regards, Paul -- Fyslee 21:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC) (I believe that the diff that is meant here is — Paul August ☎ 18:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC))
He posts links to his own homepages, blogs and webrings, and openly and repeatedly discusses his years of responsibilities as assistant listmaster for the plaintiffs' Healthfraud List .
As Barrett's Assistant Listmaster for several years (until December, 2006 when he said he resigned but continues posting there) he has solicited members to come to Misplaced Pages to help him collaborate. This is but one example. Please note the list of his affiliations advertised on this link, which he also advertises on Misplaced Pages. Here is a list (if it disappears too, I have the evidence in my files) of his hundreds of posts as Assistant Listmaster. Perusing this list you will see, in addition to his Wiki conversations, and in November, 2006, many posts relating to the lawsuit members of the Healthfraud list lost to me. Any who investigate will easily and clearly see that he continues the Quackwatch / NCAHF agenda here on Misplaced Pages.
Sampling of Disinformation intentionally posted by Fyslee
A. " ...The NCAHF is still registered in California." -- Fyslee 18:37, 13 December 2006(UTC) In fact, NCAHF was suspended in May, 2003 by the State of California. This falsity had been discussed (with this link) for over 6 months, yet Fyslee and others working closely with him, managed to keep this verified fact off of the NCAHF page for that period of time, causing much of the edit wars between he and I.
B. Barrett has been libeled repeatedly, and that fact is undeniable. ... Barrett has, because of technicalities, not been able to get a favorable judgment. When I first came back to Misplaced Pages after the Supreme Court decision in my favor, it was because I had been told that the facts of the case were being misrepresented on Wiki, almost identical to this comment, a blatant PR attempt on fyslee's part to change the public's perception of Barrett's many court losses.
C. None of the suits were ever SLAPP suits..." . This is pure and utter propaganda and a blatant attempt to change history. Barrett's loss to me was but one SLAPP suit loss and there have been others. Comments such as these, can only be construed as an attempt to spin Barrett's case into something they wish it to be. These claims are particularly important to counter, as other defendants' cases are on the horizon, and blatant PR is not what Misplaced Pages is all about.
D. Nor have any of Barrett's activities or the libel suit against her ever had anything to do with her breast implant POV or activism. This is another fine example of his classic doublespeak. Once again, Fyslee is claiming to speak for Barrett, although he also claims he doesn't. In fact, this was covered in full in both of my declarations and after careful consideration, the judge ruled in my favor and against Barrett in a 27 page decision. The industry backed, The Amercan Council Against Science and Health, for which Barrett is an "advisor" and writer, has spread pro-silicone industry propaganda since the mid 1990's and other writers for them also, have frequently taken pot shots at other breast implant awareness activists. I have been highly critical of his writings on Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, a complex syndrome from which many women in my support group suffer. Barrett, unlicensed himself, writes about going after the licenses of those scientists working to figure out this complex puzzle. Although the chemical industry funds ACSH, Barrett refuses to offer disclaimers about this. This article in Philanthropy describes Barrett's actions against me perfectly Legal Tactic Chills Debate, Activists Say .
Fyslee is a vital part of a Barrett Satire Group ... formed to 'round up net quacks' on the internet
Rag-tag Posse of Snake-oil Vigilantes (this is an archived copy - the website was up from 2000 (when lawsuits were filed) until December, 2006
Concurrent with waging several legal attacks against dozens of us in late, 2000, Barrett and the others in this group (including Fyslee) augmented their smear_campaigns on various fronts: Usenet, Blogs, Webrings (owned by Fyslee), Healthfraud List, and eventually brought here to Misplaced Pages. Fyslee reports that he never came interacted with me in Usenet. That is accurate. However, that's not his domain. In fact, there are members of this list who specialize in Usenet, donning many disguises such as "Nanaweedkiller" and "Marla Maples" etc. They have directly targeted me on Usenet for years. Others of this list have blogs (Fyslee included) and they all cross promote each other and attempt to control all sides of debates on: chiropractic, alternative medicine, vaccinations, breast implants, second hand tobacco, amalgams, and who is, and who is not, a quack.
Fyslee and Barrett and the other plaintiffs (all who lost their lawsuits to me) voluntarily remained on this list from 2000 until December 2006, when it was removed from the internet. This is an archived copy (I have copies if this also gets removed).Rag-tag Posse of Snake-oil Vigilantes. People on this list with Fyslee have used many names to attack me and other defendants on Usenet for years, including attempting to infiltrate my support group for women harmed by breast implants, hiring private investigators to hunt me down in San Diego and Costa Rica, spreading webpages claiming I was "arrested for selling crack cocaine to minors in Costa Rica" and falsely claiming I was "bankrupt" etc. etc. etc. They are members too, of the Healthfraud List with Fyslee, and have attempted to change the facts of Barrett's failed litigations throughout various medium such as he does on Misplaced Pages. Many of the abundance of claims of attacks by Fyslee were mentions of this, which he calls a satire. I agree with this excellent definition of satire, from Misplaced Pages: Although satire is usually witty, and often very funny, the purpose of satire is not primarily humour but criticism of an event, an individual or a group in a clever manner.
Attacks by Fyslee Against Me
I will be including just a tiny sampling of the attacks Fyslee has made against me here on Misplaced Pages. Far from pursuing him, as he is claiming, any glance at my earliest edits will show him reverting me, often within seconds. I'd also like to comment that when one administrator unilaterally banned me for a week, it felt to me like I was being held down while she, Fyslee and others took turns beating me up. Attempting to appear as a victim is a public relations strategy Fyslee uses frequently.
A. This whole business makes me wonder how many people Ilena has driven to suicide.
B. Here he uses, what I c onsider, aspartame fake "sadness" to baselessly and viciously attack the work I have done and my thousands of relationships with women harmed by breast implants, their families and loved ones. I am also frequently interviewed and quoted in the press, highly critical of the breast implant industry, and I was recently quoted in Wired Magazine , MyDNA, "The Scientist" etc. voicing my opinions. My support group increases daily, and we work harmoniously and lovingly with many other support leaders and groups.
C. I am greatly saddened by the effect your abominable behavior has on the cause of women with breast implant issues. I sympathize with that cause, and I also sympathize with the women who are ashamed to have you in their company. (I have to find diff) In fact, I head a large, international support group and receive enormous support and love and accolades for my group. Fyslee's attack is just repeating propaganda put out by my losing plaintiffs and their other publicists. Terry Polevoy, the plaintiff who also posted here on Misplaced Pages, has publicized that I am "the laughing stock of the internet." This is repeated on Usenet on the attack website that Fyslee posted on Misplaced Pages, and others on this list, distributed on other internet medium. These women, coincidentally enough, are also working with a silicone manufacturer who spent years on Usenet attacking me, which ended in legal battles as well as the plaintiffs. If anyone has any doubts that enormous industries like the silicone and breast implant and chemical industries do not attacks activists such as me, I highly recommend, Deforming Consent: The Public Relations Industry's Secret War on ActivistsI further highly recommend this piece on why activists who run tiny non-profits like ours, are targets of SLAPP suits such as Barrett Vs Rosenthal. Legal Tactic Chills Debate, Activists Say In the 27 page opinion against all three plaintiffs in the Superior Court of California, the judge clearly sided with our declarations. (cites to come)
D. Fyslee repeatedly claimed I had "libeled" him ... another unsubstanitated, deprecatory accusation. Even as he refused Mediation, he posted this blatant repetition of propaganda that bears absolutely no resemblance to the decisions made about this case in the Superior, Appeals and even the Supreme Court of California. Fyslee wrote: The only reason she won is because of a totally new application of a new law that protects republishers of even the most defamatory material. I have discussed the many reasons I won here . Connected to this, is my frustration that editors on Barrett V Rosenthal decided that the final words of Justice Moreno (page 39) in the Supreme Court decision were not relevant to the article. "As the lower courts correctly concluded, however, none of the hostile comments against Dr. Barrett alleged in the complaint are defamatory." .
Response to Joshua below
I have no experience with editor, Joshua and am astounded by his comment regarding Barrett's NCAHF loss to King Bio. When I followed the link provided, I see that the page has been archived and I am no longer able to even correct the serious disinformation being posted there, and his inaccurate claim that she made a massive distortion of a court decision involving him.
a. I have many varied interests and experiences that I bring to my editing on Misplaced Pages and am not a single purpose editor as he claims.
b. In fact, I misrepresented nothing. Here are both rulings against NCAHF. NCAFH loses to King Bio in Superior Court. The Appeals Court case (which I provide the pdf for here specifically uses the terms "biased and unworthy of credibility" directly describing both Stephen Barrett and Wallace Sampson.
Conflict of Interest Issues
Evidence presented by Fyslee
Comments
Missing evidence from Peter M Dodge
I'm still waiting for evidence in the form of diffs to be provided by Peter Dodge, who (as Ilena's mentor and defender) started this RfArb. He has just listed some charges in a very misleading order and fashion, (commented here), and has not provided any evidence at all at this time. Without it it's hard for me to proceed. I expect my involvement to be tried by evidence, not by allegation. I request that he either provide the diffs quickly, or his charges be (temporarily) removed, as search engines pick up these (as yet) unproven allegations. He can always reintroduce his entry when he has the evidence, which I would expect quickly, since it would be rather unusual for the one who raised the charges to not "meet up in court." I will then be able to show what evidence he is ignoring or leaving out, and the misleading nature of the order and nature of the charges. Undocumented charges are simply violations of NPA, even here. If they are accompanied by documentation, then it's a very different matter, since that is a legitimate part of the proceedings here. -- Fyslee's (First law) 10:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Ilena is wasting our time
She is wasting her own and our time by all the talk above about any deletion of evidence. What has been deleted is something I do not hide from this group -- my identity and affiliations. As long as this RfArb is in progress, I will leave the edit history of my user page intact, and anyone can see what I have written, my newbie mistakes, and everything else. It is my user page, and nothing inappropriate was posted there.
I do not deny that I have earlier revealed it, so she has no case by continuing to point out the fact I have earlier revealed it. I admit that. Case closed. I have the right to change my mind, and I am asking her to respect that decision.
She is also getting way off-topic by discussing her Usenet and other battles with many people, of which I have not been a party. Nor have any of Barrett's activities or the libel suit against her ever had anything to do with her breast implant POV or activism. She has such issues with others, but not Barrett or myself. I am actually sympathetic to her cause, but not her methods. I request that she stay on topic. I am not obligated to respond to such charges and conspiracy theories. -- Fyslee's (First law) 21:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
My privacy concerns should be respected
My current attempts to regain my privacy are perfectly legitimate: I just wish to avoid harassment by Ilena and others. Before her arrival here I didn't feel as great a need for privacy.
A few events and warnings leading up to my actively seeking more privacy (also note edit summaries):
- Vandalism and personal attack on my own user page, accompanied with the obligatory vanity spam link to her special website designed to attack Misplaced Pages editors (one of many such attack sites).
- Vicious attack placed at the top of my talk page (accompanied by yet another vanity spamlink to her attack site).
These types of attacks are usually accompanied by false politeness to this day in nearly all per posts. I'd rather she were just honest.
- I notify her not to use my name (done in her vicious and misleading attacks in violation of AGF and NPA), and I delete it.
I finally sought the help of admin Guy to delete the beginning edit history of my User page, where my true name was listed. (He has my email request and may provide it privately to admins here upon request.):
As requested by myself, Guy kindly restored the history of my user page.
- Jance (a lawyer) chides Ilena for not respecting my privacy requests.
I have never denied my true identity or affiliations and will reaffirm them here as necessary. (I expect specific questions from admins, and I will answer them.) Nothing that has been changed or deleted will change that. I will reaffirm any deleted content as necessary. The deleted post at Chirotalk was not my doing. On the contrary, it is in my own interest to preserve it, as Ilena has previously(diff) used it to make false charges about me. (It was not Botnick, but the poster of the now deleted message who called me an "expert", simply because I was apparently known as a Misplaced Pages editor, and the others figured I knew something about editing here, which I take as a compliment, not a crime.)
There are six admins at Chirotalk and no one has confessed to deleting it, in fact no one is responding at all! I requested that they help me regain my privacy by removing my name anywhere they found it, and to substitute it with "Fyslee". I did not request that anyone delete posts. I only edited posts to eliminate my real name. Fortunately the content of that post has been copied by Ilena and is available for examination, and it contains nothing of an incriminating nature, since I am not responsible for other's comments, only for my own actions. My very limited activities at Chirotalk or elsewhere are none of her business, as far as Misplaced Pages is concerned. -- Fyslee's (First law) 11:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Ilena has made personal attacks
The most serious is the "publicist" accusation, which is an example of failure to AGF, (an admin comment), and it should be treated as a personal attack she (and others) have repeatedly made because of my "affiliations" with Barrett (any "affiliations" I have with him are honorable and something of which I am proud.)
Using my interests and affiliations to discredit me is clearly labeled a "personal attack" here at Misplaced Pages:
- "Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views — regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme."NPA
I have repeatedly been the target of such accusations here at Misplaced Pages, even before Ilena came here, and I have repeatedly answered them, so here's a previous explanation:
I have since stopped as assistant listmaster, since I didn't participate very often, and had a backlog of over 3,000 unread list mails, so I wasn't following along enough to do my "job" decently. I rarely did anything anyway.
I eagerly await clear evidence of wrongdoing. I am not a member of the NCAHF, on any board, paid by anyone or any pharmaceutical company, or acting at anyone's bidding or obeying instructions (explained to Ilena here). Barrett and I don't even see eye-to-eye all the time! What I do is my hobby because it interests me as a private person, as well as a healthcare professional interested in consumer protection issues. That is not a crime, while some of those who oppose mine and Barrett's efforts actually are criminals, scammers, and deceivers. The rest who support various forms of quackery are just true believers or innocents who do little or no harm. It is not a crime to provide them with consumer protection information.
(A longer list of other types of personal attacks coming later.)
Ilena has serious COI, BLP, and NPOV issues here
- COI issues
She has been involved in litigation with Stephen Barrett, as described in Barrett v. Rosenthal. This places her in a conflict of interest regarding anything to do with him or Quackwatch on Misplaced Pages, whether in one of those articles specifically or elsewhere. That is the situation as summed up by admin SlimVirgin, with the following consequences for Ilena:
- "....I think your input would be welcome on the talk pages, so long as you don't post anything contentious, but I don't think you should continue to make edits to the encycylopedia that involve Barrett or his organization." (My emphasis, since I have little hope of that being possible. - Fyslee)
Ilena was unreceptive, so SlimVirgin had to repeat:
- "...you should not be editing articles related to Barrett, or making edits that involve removing his material."
- "I think Ilena should stay away from articles directly related to Barrett, and should refrain from adding or deleting material about him from any other article."
I find her advice to be wise, in harmony with Misplaced Pages policies, and if followed would lead to a more peaceful atmosphere here, without 3RR edit warring, personal attacks, blocks, RfM, RfArb, etc.. Her presence here has created a nightmare situation for many editors and admins. This is not Usenet, where anything goes.
- BLP issues (as related to her COI issues)
Especially in light of BLP principles (which favor prevention of possibly libelous edits, rather than favoring protection to make such edits), Ilena's demonstrated propensities to attack Barrett, Quackwatch, quackbusters, and anti-quackery efforts in general, make her a liability to the Misplaced Pages experience as a whole, and in an interesting twist places her in direct COI with BLP itself. She has not demonstrated an ability or willingness to refrain from allowing her COI to cause her to be in constant danger of violating BLP as regards the parties and POV of those parties.
- She didn't accept the advice, and seemed not to understand the point at all, and why? Because of the next point:
- NPOV issues (related to both of the above)
To top it off, she still fails to understand NPOV:
- "Now I'm quite confused. Fyslee claims that "POV suppression is not allowed here." I had understood that Misplaced Pages was not about POV but verifiable facts. The term "quackery" is totally subjective, pejorative, and who is and who is not a "quack" is just one's opinion. I don't believe these non objective quackery discussions belong on Misplaced Pages at all since it's so subjective. So someone please, is Fyslee being correct in his claim? Thank you. Ilena" 20:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Conclusion
All of these factors reveal that she is a POV warrior who fails to understand, or is willing to respect, NPOV. Such editors are a constant threat to Misplaced Pages's collaborative spirit and mission, which are governed by the following
Fundamental principles
- The best articles are produced through the collaborative efforts of editors who hold opposing POV, who truly understand the NPOV policy, and who either "write for the enemy" themselves, or who at least don't suppress it. As regards other's POV, they are inclusionists, rather than deletionists who exercise POV suppressionism. Collaborative editors work in a "checks and balances" relationship. This ensures that all significant POV are presented without being promoted. What could be more Wikipedian than that? It's fantastic when it works, but such a relationship is rare on controversial subjects.
- Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy must not be misused so it becomes synonymous with revisionism, censorship, whitewashing, or political correctness. Editors must actively enable the presentation of all significant sides of any controversy. To leave out one side amounts to promoting the other side's POV. Misplaced Pages should include more information than other encyclopedias, not less.
-- Fyslee's (First law) 23:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Ilena falsely claims that BvR is motivated by opposition to her breast implant activism
This is a response to this charge above:
- "D. Nor have any of Barrett's activities or the libel suit against her ever had anything to do with her breast implant POV or activism. This is another fine example of his classic doublespeak. Once again, Fyslee is claiming to speak for Barrett, although he also claims he doesn't."
(Let's just start by ignoring her obvious admission of lack of understanding of my statements and proceed. An AGF would remove that confusion, but she refuses to AGF.) I speak from what I am currently aware, not "for Barrett". I have made similar statements more than once on my own account, and Ilena has failed to present any evidence that proves the libel suits had anything to do with anything other than attempts to stop specific libelous statements unrelated to breast implant issues. To the best of my knowledge Barrett has not attacked her for her breast implant issues (or even discussed them). If she can present such evidence, then I will stand corrected. I'm open to learning more. I have searched and failed to find him dealing with this issue.
Here are the statements I have made here (that I can find):
- "Peter (Wizardry), I believe you have some serious misunderstandings and assumptions about this issue. To the best of my knowledge, Barrett and Rosenthal have never had any serious discussions over the issue of breast implants. Barrett doesn't even comment on them or write about them, or even criticize Rosenthal's position on the issue. (Barrett may have at some long distant point in the past expressed views common among MDs, but he's never made it an issue in his activities. He concentrates on other subjects.) I personally support much of her position on the subject, but find her activities to be very damaging to her cause.
- The attacks made by Bolen and Rosenthal against Barrett (that have led to libel lawsuits) have nothing to do with the breast implant issues, but are regarding Barrett's anti-quackery activism....... -- Fyslee 10:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)" (Emphasis original. The original diffs listed in the next paragraph there no longer function, so that copy will have to do. Their deletion (by an archiving bot?) has also removed them from my own contributions listing (!), which I find to be an unfortunate glitch in the way permanent deletions and automated archiving function.)
We had an exchange on this very point on her user page:
- "To the best of my understanding, BvR all started solely because she started attacking Barrett (without him having attacked her first) by republishing Bolen's "opinion pieces" (his words) newsletter, and also adding her own comments. Nothing ever involved breast implants, so it wasn't a "spat" between them. (Barrett doesn't comment on those issues at all.) It was Barrett's (and Polevoy's) libel suit in an attempt to get her to stop posting what they still consider libelous statements made by Bolen. He is now awaiting trial, since the SLAPP suit was overturned. None of the suits were ever SLAPP suits (as the reversal indicates), and everything is now back on focus as a malicious prosecution and libel suit against the originator(s). ] I'm not a lawyer, so if my understanding is incorrect, I welcome hard evidence to the contrary. -- Fyslee 10:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)" (Emphasis (and links) added to show where I clearly express my lack of absolute certainty, willingness to be corrected, and to clarify my meaning about the SLAPP suits.)
- "I originally included and widened (by wikilinking) the description of her as a women's health advocate, but since that is not, and never has been, at issue here, then it's not relevant to the article, and can only function as a distraction and platform for soapboxing (of a good issue!). None of this was ever about her activism, about breast implant issues, or about industry attempts to suppress her activities. That's a straw man, and should not be allowed to divert the discussion or article."
- Her reponse here, where she repeats her conspiracy theory of being a persecuted breast implant activist. Maybe she is, but the BvR case didn't involve those issues, to the best of my knowledge, and therefore the BvR article should not include such information, as she insists it should: "The fact is it was quackwatch vs breast implant awareness advocate."
She falsely accuses me of attacking her breast implant activism:
That makes no sense, since I am sympathetic to the cause of women injured by breast implants! I would like to see proof of that false charge. Lacking such proof, I expect an apology.
Ilena changed my contribution
Here and here she alters my "post header into something inflammatory while she accuses of inappropriate action." (That is a later summary of the whole incident by admin Durova.)
I finally succeeded in getting a restoration of my post header to stick. (Note my edit summary.)
The whole section, with the clear documentation of Ilena's "error" (I'll avoid using the true description here) was later deleted by Peter Dodge. While well-intentioned, these types (there were several more) of deletions have made documenting things much harder, since the deleted evidence can only be found in the edit histories.
Her action led to a well-reasoned final warning (also deleted by Peter Dodge ), that ended in yet another block.
Evidence by JoshuaZ
Fyslee's involvement
Fyslee called for outside editors to edit Misplaced Pages. Ilena's evidence for this- is incontrovertible. In general, such behavior is not a good thing especially when it occurs in a partisan forum. However, Fyslee did say in the request "Keep in mind that POV (point of view) editing is forbidden, and one must cooperate with other editors, also antagonists. Articles must present all POV, including unfavorable ones. Think carefully before saving edits, since every edit is recorded publically for posterity, so mistakes will haunt you" Given that, it seems that at least in that limited matter Fyslee's behavior was not so bad, since Fyslee seemed to be trying in a good faith way to make sure the editors who joined in understood that they should be neutral.
Ilena
Ilena has been editing a wide variety of alternative medicine related articles, and has been editing them all with a strong POV. This has included most recently her getting blocked for 3RR on Clayton College of Natural Health (this was in fact an NRR for large N, see , her sixth block over all, and her second for 3RR on a Barret related matter). Some of this may just be her general problems with Barrett spreading to other articles. In this case, her POV about Barrett was so strong that she made a massive distortion of a court decision involving him. . This editor has acknowledged her conflict with Barrett and despite that has continued to attack him and edit articles removing material about Barrett and adding attacks to Barrett in a variety of articles. The conflict of interest is clear and her refusal to back down despite it is also clear. Ilena is a single purpose account with a strong POV and should be treated as such.
JoshuaZ 03:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Evidence presented by Arthur Rubin
Comment
Waiting for Wizardry Dragon
I concur with Fyslee that it's difficult to present evidence when you don't know what is intended by the proposer, Wizardry Dragon. I understand that Peter is going through difficult times, but I'm not entirely sure what he has in mind. At this point, I will only present assertions which are likely to be overlooked by the principals.
Ilena makes off-Wiki personal attacks against specific Misplaced Pages editors
As it's off-Wiki, and most of them have been removed, diffs are problematic. However, is a request that she remove off-Wiki libel. I can't find my request that she remove off-Wiki attacks, but there are still attacks against "Paul Lee", who she claims to be a Misplaced Pages editor, at http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/Wikipedia.htm (I would like to note a non-Misplaced Pages-related misstatement of fact. She wrote "The 7 Justices ruled that the re-posting of potentially libelous material on the internet is not actionable." (Emphasis in the original.) The actual ruling more resembles "The 7 Justices rules that the re-posting of defamatory material is not actionable.") Although repeating the defamatory material from her web site here would not be libelous, it might very well be a violation of our "right to privacy" provisions, so I won't do it here.
Ilena spammed her web site in her signature, in violation of WP:SIGNATURE
Sections are generally in chronological order. I didn't feel the need to list a number of "normal" signature links, as most of the links that day were in violation.
- General warning about linkspam
- Additions before a formal signature was created include .
- Normal signature links include:
- Warnings (by me)
- Re-editing signature areas to insert the link include January 15 links
- It should be noted she has generally stopped adding inappropriate links to her web site, but still ocassionally adds questionable links to it.
Ilena was uncivil and committed personal attacks
References noted on her talk page by Ronz include :
Evidence presented by MastCell
Extension of a real-life dispute
Two people have a real-life conflict going back years, and are essentially professional antagonists. One sues the other for libel, and the case goes all the way to the California State Supreme Court, resulting in what may well be a landmark decision. Then one party in the lawsuit (Ilena) shows up here to edit almost exclusively articles relating to her antagonist (Stephen Barrett) and said lawsuit. This is the definition of a conflict of interest. If Ilena's participation was directed toward identifying and fixing WP:BLP issues, that would be one thing, but she's been disruptive, prone to personal attacks, and an edit warrior. She's continued her battle against Barrett here even while this ArbCom case is ongoing (). Regardless of right or wrong, the importation of a real-life dispute onto the talk and article pages of Misplaced Pages by one of the litigants violates both WP:COI and ...not a battleground. In spite of mentorship from an experienced user, Ilena has not modified her approach to work within Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines - witness the recent block for 3RR.
WP:BLP
Any solution adopted by ArbCom would need a mechanism for Ilena to raise WP:BLP issues, whether directly on talk pages or via email or posts to the BLP noticeboard. By the same token, Ilena's constant repetition of attacks on Barrett and accusations of a smear campaign (e.g. ) are definitely skirting a BLP violation and, in any case, have no place on Misplaced Pages (per ...not a battleground).
Reformability
Fyslee's behavior hasn't been sterling and has crossed the line at times - I'll leave it to Peter Dodge and Ilena to fill in the blanks - but he's had a history of reasonable participation as a good Wikicitizen before all this. It's harder to be optimistic about Ilena becoming a constructive editor - even with this case ongoing, she's been engaged in an edit war at Hulda Clark, and her evidence above is mostly a repetition of the personal attacks and claims of victimization that landed things here in the first place. She's not a newbie and has had the benefit of assistance from experienced editors.
MastCell 17:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Evidence presented by {your user name}
{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.
{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.