Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ealdgyth (talk | contribs) at 23:43, 11 May 2023 (→Please...: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		"happy that we finally got a 'self-described neutral observer'" - that made me laugh. That was a positive add. Rockypedia (talk) 00:02, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

you might want to see this

. 😍Doug Weller talk 12:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

A beer for you!

I was wondering why I saw you clearing your talk page. Drmies (talk) 04:49, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Gandy orders a second round. Cheers to one of our best! Gandydancer (talk) 15:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

*hic* here's another :) sláinte! ——SerialNumber54129 15:27, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

	A Resilient Barnstar
	I’m very sorry to see the harassment you have faced. Stay strong Volunteer Marek! starship.paint (talk) 16:00, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

A kitten in the hopes that it improves you evening.

HighInBC 12:23, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

FYI

Please note that I (favorably) mentioned one of your contributions here. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:23, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Man, all those old school people of days long past. Volunteer Marek 19:35, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Torture and castration of a Ukrainian POW in Pryvillia for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Torture and castration of a Ukrainian POW in Pryvillia until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

‒overthrows 23:56, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Only a small part out of the tens of thousands Kadyrovtsy serve in this regiment

Just see the Russian article about the concept of theKadyrovtsy with the incomplete list if Kadyrovtsy units (most with their own articles):

https://ru.wikipedia.org/Кадыровцы

This isn't any sort of "common name", but a confusion and misinformation, perhaps based on the name (Kadyrov regiment). The Kadyrovtsy are all armed men serving the Kadyrovs. Today they're consolidated in many regiments, battalions, and so on, in addition to unofficial militias and reservists. And this one is just one of these.

It's not even the only one bearing the name "Kadyrov" (in fact most units are named either "Kadyrov" or "Akhmat", after Akhmat Kadyrov as part of his cult). And detachments from all of these existing today were sent to Ukraine, too.

So.please restore split tag, or just split the unit yourself.

Also since you're interested in the castration incident, the Russian policeman was a member of one f the Kadyrovtsy unitz the SOBR Akhmat. The unit on Ru Misplaced Pages:

94.254.185.85 (talk) 08:43, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Which particular article or edit are you referring to? Volunteer Marek 21:24, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

#Nomination of Torture and castration of a Ukrainian POW in Pryvillia for deletion - it's been done by a Chechen special police (SOBR) unit from Grozny, even if the man with the knife wasn't even a Chechen nor from Chechnya. (He also wasn't a "soldier" as the article kept describing him, but a policeman in the service of Chechen Interior Ministry, meaning of course the service of Kadyrov.)

Salso, several Kadyrovtsy units listed in the Russian Misplaced Pages article have been just recently (late 2022) created by Kadyrov specifically to be sent to Ukraine. Including at least 1 new regiment and multiple separate battalions of the National Guard (former Internal Troops), Russia's paramilitary police.

Ah, ok, could be right. Do you have any sources other than Russian Misplaced Pages? Volunteer Marek 23:53, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

The Russian article quotes https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/chechens-putins-loyal-foot-soldiers and several Russian language articles, I do not know if this Misplaced Pages accepts all of them as reliable. Xx236 (talk) 08:12, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

ChatGPT

I asked ChatGPT what your real name is, and it replied "Misplaced Pages has a policy of preserving the anonymity of its editors, and as such, the real names of its contributors are not publicly disclosed." Zero 05:26, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Apparently ChatGPT has a better understanding of Misplaced Pages policy than some editors on here. Volunteer Marek 05:43, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Mikhail Tolstykh

thank you for adjusting the text on Mikhail Tolstykh to match the truth. i had been getting the runaround on the talkpage and the various noticeboards. :) .usarnamechoice (talk) 17:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Arbitration case notification

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Holocaust in Poland and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, GeneralNotability (talk) 20:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

@GeneralNotability: Since you filed the case request is there a reason why you didn't include User:Chapmansh, the author of the article? Volunteer Marek 20:15, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Volunteer Marek, they were left off of the initial list because they are not actively editing in the topic area. If you believe they should be included, I recommend that you bring it up at the case request. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:22, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Uh... they wrote the article that is prompting the case. Volunteer Marek 20:24, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

And I'm sorry @GeneralNotability: I find the rationale of "not actively editing in the topic area" as a justification for exclusion to be quite strange since the list of parties includes User:Poeticbent who hasn't edited Misplaced Pages AT ALL in four years, which I believe qualifies as "not actively editing in the topic area". Volunteer Marek 20:32, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Seen, and I see you've brought it up on the case page, so nothing further to add here. GeneralNotability (talk) 21:13, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

I saw...

Your comment. I'm currently working through that pile again in prep for the expected opening of the arb case. And will be looking at other articles too. I guess I know what I'm doing for the next few weeks. I need to order that book on Chelmno... I never did get it last year. In my defense, when I got back to the house last Feb, my son left so I had to take on all the hobby-farm work as well as the outdoor work and the computer-gaming-work and the research I'm (supposedly) doing on my own books. So wiki editing has moved down the priority list. I looked to have some free wiki editing time coming up but I guess it's going to get swallowed up by arbcom. I never did thank you for the editing you did do, so thank you. Ealdgyth (talk) 01:30, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

License tagging for File:0 AE cases 2022.png

Thanks for uploading File:0 AE cases 2022.png. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Misplaced Pages uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information; to add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click the "Edit" tab at the top of the page and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Misplaced Pages.

For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 10:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I think I fixed this for you. In the future, I recommend uploading such stuff to Wikimedia Commons. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:44, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Of course it’s listed at

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Doug Weller talk 18:32, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Yup, I see it. Volunteer Marek 18:48, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Russo-Ukrainian War Extended-confirmed protection

Greetings! Turns out non-extended-confirmed editors (as me, having less than 250 edits I guess) are barred from editing articles on a subject per Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Russo-Ukrainian War . My contributions to enwiki are limited but I have contributed alot to ruwiki articles on a subject however - (most article edits are hidden for security concerns). Is there a chance to allow particular non-EC editors to make contributions? Thanks! Manyareasexpert (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

You can make a proposal or a request on article's talk pages. Volunteer Marek 03:03, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Tec

I have Tec's When Light Pierced the Darkness... but it's available on Internet Archive in two editions 1986 with red lettering and 1986 with yellow lettering. (For disclosure - I have the yellow lettering edition and it's even signed by Tec, although I got it used so...not inscribed to me) Ealdgyth (talk) 13:16, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh wow, awesome. Thanks! Volunteer Marek 15:37, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I've found that InternetArchive is a lifesaver lately...there are a LOT of books I need for "fact checking" available there, thus saving my bank account a good bit. I did just order this work and it should be here next week... Ealdgyth (talk) 15:47, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

That looks like a really good book. I don't know if I'll have the time to obtain and read it myself in the near future though. Let me know what you think of it once you get it. Volunteer Marek 05:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

AE

I am using GCB's diffs and replying to them, by indenting my posts. Why do you think that diff is the evidence of my claims? Also, note my usage of "a" instead of "the". TrangaBellam (talk) 06:14, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I have added the diff. Fwiw, as I said, I do not think that you casted any aspersion - I guess my framing was clear enough? TrangaBellam (talk) 06:19, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I see, you were talking about a completely different article. Still, I'm not sure how that addresses the relevant diff, nor how reminding everyone (not you specifically) that BLP applies to a particular article is "aspersions". Volunteer Marek 06:34, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I do say that it is NOT an aspersion. Because you had reasonable basis to make the claim from my edit! Is that not clear from my writing? TrangaBellam (talk) 06:43, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Btw, can you please strike through the first part of your statement - since it was based on a misunderstanding. Regards, TrangaBellam (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm actually not quite clear what it is you want me to strike because I never said you were casting aspersions - I said you invoked them. I did strike that part though. Volunteer Marek 22:09, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

RS

Thank you for being honest. Slatersteven (talk) 11:32, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I mean... kind of obvious? Volunteer Marek 19:16, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

True, but it seems that too many think they are RS. Slatersteven (talk) 12:40, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey are you paid by pentagon to remove Amensty report on Ukrainian war crimes?

Generally curious are you on pay roll of Pentagon for past 6 months to continuously remove following report of Amnesty International on war crime committed by ukrainian forces?

Or you are doing it voluntarily ? Proud Indian Arnab (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Apparently I'm being paid by multiple governments except the checks never arrive! Volunteer Marek 19:13, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Famine

Hi there Volunteer Marek! The discussion on Talk:Bengal famine of 1943#False claim in text has seen significant contributions by multiple editors (including me). Can you share your view whether we should mention Japanese culpability i.e. Japanese invasion of Burma on first paragraph of the lead as one of the causes of the famine? Thanks Capitals00 (talk) 04:08, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Ayayay, gimme some time to read through all that and catch up. Volunteer Marek 04:21, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction

The following sanction now applies to you:

You are now subject to a two-way interaction ban with Levivich, with the exception of participation on the case pages of the upcoming Holocaust in Poland case. This sanction will expire at the resolution of the Arbcom case.

You have been sanctioned The back and forth between you two is disruptive to the topic area, and you're both crossing the line into personal attacks. Keep your commentary at the case pages on point, and I suggest you avoid back and forth on the case talk pages.

This sanction is imposed in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator under the authority of the Arbitration Committee's decision at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision and, if applicable, the contentious topics procedure. This sanction has been recorded in the log of sanctions. If the sanction includes a ban, please read the banning policy to ensure you understand what this means. If you do not comply with this sanction, you may be blocked for an extended period, by way of enforcement of this sanction—and you may also be made subject to further sanctions.

You may appeal this sanction using the process described here. I recommend that you use the arbitration enforcement appeals template if you wish to submit an appeal to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. You may also appeal directly to me (on my talk page), before or instead of appealing to the noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:56, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Volunteer Marek 22:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

World War II and the history of Jews in Poland: Arbitration case opened

Hello Volunteer Marek,

You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes. Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence/Summary. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.

Details about the summary page, the two phases of evidence, a timeline and other answers to frequently asked questions can be found at the case's FAQ page.

For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration Committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Typo

You spelt my username wrong at the evidence page. Can you please fix it? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:23, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Done. Volunteer Marek 16:25, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. For what it's worth, I do have a heart. It sounds like you've been through a lot. I don't have kids (I'm 20) but I can sympathize that that experience would be indescribably awful. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:28, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Along those same lines, I've been aware in a general sense of what Icewhiz was, but reading the case pages really makes the details real to me. I am very sympathetic to what you (VM) have had to go through. If there is anything I can do to help during the case, please let me know. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I tried to help

I posted the G&K article as evidence to the ARBCOM case, explaining how it's relevant and why it's high priority, but it seems that certain types of evidence are not being recognized or considered. The presentation and explanation is here if you find any sort of practical use for it. I also thought you'd like to know that when I searched the author's names in Google to find the article, your rebuttal on Substack was the second result after the article itself, so it's clearly visible. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:33, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Thebiguglyalien Perhaps your post would be allowed here. Or you can ask the Arbitrators. Some similar stuff was moved to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Analysis. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Impressive writing

On your substack, and the recent piece of analysis to ArbCom (). Just saying. Ps. You may want to put that piece on your substack for more visibility? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:22, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

More articles

My broader interest is not Poland per se (the Arbcom led me to the G&K paper and the topic) but rather the appropriation of history by state-backed actors, esp. from the right/far-right. Do you have a list of edits/article creations made by Icewhiz on IPA topics that have parallels to the egregious stuff at A History of the Palestinian People? I plan to review the list at my leisure and clean stuff up. Regards, TrangaBellam (talk) 18:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Evidence etc.

I do not plan to take part in the case any further, and the project until the resolution of the case. So, I will appreciate to know if you plan to submit any evidence against me. Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 09:26, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

As of right now, I don’t. Volunteer Marek 15:48, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Horse rsn snapshot.png

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To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Misplaced Pages. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 02:30, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Oder–Neisse line

Your note led me, in the end, to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Phạm Văn Rạng. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 20:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Regarding no help

Re: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World_War_II_and_the_history_of_Jews_in_Poland/Evidence#Ealdgyth's_2022_attempt_to_improve_Holocaust_in_Poland_article and User_talk:Ealdgyth/Holocaust_in_occupied_Poland_arb_com_evidence. I guess I became aware of this as I did make one talk page comment there with suggestion on how to get some sources. Why I did not help out more, I am unsure. Could be because just like you, I was (still am) mostly burned out and scared of this topic area. Could be because other stuff seemed more enjoyable (and safer) to edit. In either case, if you would ever like me to look at anything, I am just a ping away.

Btw, if you or any talk page stalker knows which wiki tool to use to quickly check what articles I was editing around that time (January 2022) I'd be glad to learn about it. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:21, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Go forwards and backwards from Special:Contributions/Piotrus&target=Piotrus&offset=20220127051328. Note how the date is encoded in the address, so you can jump to a particular period easily. Zero 10:42, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

@Zero0000 Thanks. Hyperspace, Venus in fiction, and Adam Naruszewicz. And some Good Article work on Sabacc. Sorry, but particularly these days I can't imagine why one would want to force themselves to do serious work in this topic area when there are so many other topics to work on, topics where you can edit without having to deal with harassment in various forms. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:49, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

VM, breathe, buddy. As one "Ukrainian nationalist" to another I've been meaning to salute you for dealing with Sexual violence in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine when the rest of us just couldn't keep up.Elinruby (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Elinruby - thank you, I need that. It's funny though how Gitz6666 first went around calling me a "Ukrainian nationalist" and it took him awhile to figure out that I wasn't even Ukrainian so now he switched to "Polish nationalist". Volunteer Marek 00:01, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Yep, and he just recently said this to you and me and MVBW as a group. Still. I don't discuss my citizenship or ethnicity, which are complicated anyway, but that's pretty funny, actually, when it comes to me, and afaik MVBW also. More importantly, it's a really really simplistic way of objectifying people.

I also want to say out loud that although you have on occasion made me quite angry, the suggestion that you deliberately falsify anything is ludicrous to anyone who's dealt with you. Well. Apparently there are exceptions but... you're mouthy as hell and sneakiness is not in your DNA.

Above all, in a difficult topic area, you persisted and the encyclopedia is better for it. Even if we all had to get sanctioned to make it not a content dispute. By the way, a recent decision on the kidnapped children completely validates what you were.saying about that, fyi. i forget the details -- been pretty preoccupied for the obvious reasons -- but let me know if you haven't seen it and can't find it; it was recently in my news feed so I should be able to put my hand on it. Elinruby (talk) 03:04, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Actually, it's better than that, even. Look look what happens when people speak the truth: ‘We had to hide them’: how Ukraine’s ‘kidnapped’ children led to Vladimir Putin’s arrest warrant: Thousands have been taken to Russia for ‘adoption’ or ‘re-education’, but the international community is seeking justice Elinruby (talk) 03:23, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Malik Shabazz

Probably this is of no importance, but in your last comment at ArbCom you say User:Malik Shabazz (whom you mentioned in another context. Since the post is addressed to me, I was wondering: are you sure I mentioned this Malik? I've no idea who they are and where/why I mentioned them. Or were you addressing there another (unnamed) editor? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 09:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Any easy way?

Is there any easy way to calculate the % of one's edits in a topic area? How did you do it for yours? Painstaking one by one analysis is not what I have time for right now... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

@Piotrus: This tool might be useful. Zero 08:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

@Zero0000 Thanks, that's great, I've used it to do an analysis of my own activity. It was interesting even for myself to see how much Icewhiz impacted my wiki-focus. Posted it in evidence too. TL;DR - I guess Mr. I both drew me into this topic area, and made me burn out of it as well... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:19, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

driveby copyedit

"still irks me that his behavior is being reworded". In most contexts I would just fix this, but in this one you probably should yourself. Also, a little further up, you almost certainly mean COI not CIO. Elinruby (talk) 15:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion

I just read your most recent comments at WPO. In my opinion, the stuff about how G&K would have gotten that particular diff is something that ArbCom should be made aware of. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:32, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Do you draw?

I guess you do? (File:Arbitration.png (Or is it a painting?) And why not upload it to Wikimedia Commons? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:19, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Original prints of that could have been traded for a meal at certain Paris bistros in 1923. Cullen328 (talk) 06:38, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Release it as NFT? Volunteer Marek 17:51, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

This is sad. It reminds me Soviet troyka or maybe inmates looking in the last shots of movie Runaway Train. My very best wishes (talk) 02:21, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Mmm, i can see how you make that association but that wasn’t the intent and I think is a little unfair. Volunteer Marek 21:56, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I am not sure what exactly you mean by this picture. This is like a Rorschach test, i.e. everyone will say something about himself while interpreting the image. I think you made very good explanations during the entire arbitration, even in the very end . I can's say the same about some others, however. The amount of distortions by at least a couple of other contributors during this case was significant, although some (or maybe all) of them probably believed in what they were saying. My very best wishes (talk) 23:02, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

World War II and the history of Jews in Poland: Proposed decision

Hello Volunteer Marek,

In the open arbitration case about World War II and the history of Jews in Poland, one or more remedies or findings of fact have been proposed which relate to you. Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration Committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:53, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

breathe,buddy

I am not entirely certain that he cast that vote based on evidence but remember, he is trying to make a case that you are some sort of wild man. Go play with your kids then after that break research whether findings of fact aren't supposed to be based on the evidence submitted, is my suggestion. Elinruby (talk) 23:14, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Please...

You aren't doing yourself any favors with the back-and-forth. I say this as someone who sometimes finds your style of editing a bit off-putting, but I have no real desire to see you site-banned. Right now, totally understandably, you're upset and when you get upset, you often slip into behavior that doesn't help your case. Yes, it's somewhat of a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation, but it's not going to help things to engage in this manner. Go out, walk around the block, garden, anything but get into a back and forth at this time. (I'd say do yoga but... its so silly!) Right now, doing what you're doing on the talk page, its not going to persuade Wugs and it may make others buy into his arguments. I know how hard it is to calm down when folks tell you "calm down" but I really do think it's in your best interest to step away for at least six hours, more would be better. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:43, 11 May 2023 (UTC)