Talk:Persecution of Uyghurs in China

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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: When was consensus established to name the page Persecution of Uyghurs in China? A1: The current title reflects the consensus established in the most recent move discussion (22 January 2024). Two previous widely attended move discussions (30 June 2020 and 1 April 2021) had resulted in this page being titled Uyghur genocide. Please see Logs and discussions below for the full list of move discussions. In these discussions, editors discussed reporting from reliable sources in light of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA, the first two times establishing an affirmative consensus that the title "Uyghur genocide" is an appropriate name for the article. The third debate, immediately following a 12 January 2024 discussion that was closed as "not moved", citing WP:NCENPOV as the naming convention guideline justifying a shift to the new name.

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The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to Uyghurs, Uyghur genocide, or topics that are related to Uyghurs or Uyghur genocide, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Logs and discussions:

Discussions:

RM, Ethnocide of Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs, Moved, 4 February 2020, (discussion)
RM, Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of Uyghurs, Moved, 16 February 2020, (discussion)
RM, Cultural genocide of Uyghurs → Uyghur genocide, Moved, 30 June 2020, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs, Not Moved, 3 February 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur cultural genocide, Not Moved, 1 April 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Repression of Uyghurs in China, Not Moved, 5 September 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur ethnocide, Not Moved, 20 September 2023, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur genocide accusation, Not Moved, 12 January 2024, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs in China, Moved, 22 January 2024, (discussion)

Denial of abuses

Should Uyghur genocide denial have it's own article?, I've seen a fair amount of people on the internet who deny it's happening Consistently Heinous (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

The Uyghur genocide has been largely been debunked so no. It should not have its own article. 81.44.54.21 (talk) 15:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I’m not sure there’s enough content on the denial itself to generate a separate article, but it should definitely be included in this one. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

I concur with Butterdiplomat's doubts about the volume being enough to start a new article. Personally I only know of a handful of 'apologist' news sites. Bear in mind that you will need independent WP:RS saying what person X/organisation Y/ group Z claim is/isn't happening and they would specifically need to say what kind of 'denial' (denial of mistreatment/ or acknowledging mistreatment, but arguing that it doesn't constitute 'genocide' for example). I'm aware of these pitfalls because of similar articles. Pincrete (talk) 05:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Those are straight up tankies and I suggest you sever all contact with them 166.198.175.17 (talk) 07:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

The photograph in the article certainly doesn't show any sign of physical abuse. All the men looked clean, well-fed, warmly clothed, and not a single scratch on any of them. 2A00:23C4:95:EA01:6067:6E2B:11FD:E666 (talk) 22:58, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Xinjiang internment camps into Persecution of Uyghurs in China

The two articles talk about the same events basically. 159.91.31.13 (talk) 16:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

You are free to suggest a merger of the articles, but I would argue that this persecution article is broader in scope than the article on the internment camps. GnocchiFan (talk) 07:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Genocide

It’s honestly super weird that this page isn’t called “Uyghur Genocide”. 71.114.123.162 (talk) 18:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

It was called "Uyghur Genocide", but time seems to have debunked that. Persecution is true, however. 131.111.5.131 (talk) 20:26, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Only a relatively small number of sources and states refer to this as the “Uyghur Genocide”, which is our principal naming criterion.Pincrete (talk) 17:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

How is not a genocide? According to the UN's definition causing bodily or mental harm to members of a group, imposing measures intended to prevent births within a group and deliberately inflicting conditions of life that bring about its destruction in whole or in part all count as genocide. Just because they aren't outright killing every single Uyhgur, doesn’t mean that it's not genocide. The word genocide is also mentioned in the article 252 times at the time of writing. Chelk (talk) 16:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

It's not for Misplaced Pages editors to judge the genocide criteria - only to assess whether there is academic consensus.There are academic sources that say that the label of genocide has not been substantiated yet, for reasons such as the underlying data from Zenz being speculative (as the disclaimer in Zenz's report says) and other claims being exaggerated or unverified. The 2023 Springer Nature book here is an example, summarizing: it is obvious that a campaign that aimed at Muslim minorities and abused their most basic rights definitely took place. However, the often exaggerated numbers, the way those numbers are presented—constantly repeating that millions of Uyghurs are being still and forever detained—and, principally, the unsubstantiated accusation of genocide, have to be criticized. — MarkH₂₁ 19:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "The Chinese government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to defend its actions in Xinjiang" to "The US government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to destabilize Xinjiang". Currently, there are no solid proof of Uyghur refugees migrating outside of China, especially to the United States. China has released a 144 day visa program for tourists to visit Xinjiang, as a result, many tourist have found out that Xinjiang is nothing like what the USA proclaims and is merely propaganda from western media 118.101.169.94 (talk) 17:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Dead link update

Hi, I can't update the page but this link is dead: https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/07/commerce-department-adds-eleven-chinese-entities-implicated-human

I found the current one here: https://2017-2021.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/07/commerce-department-adds-eleven-chinese-entities-implicated-human.html

Can someone please update it? Dilcoe (talk) 02:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

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