Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank (2023–present)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 November 2023

This edit request to Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

On 24, November, In the West Bank city of Tulkarm,two alleged IDF collaborators were executed.

Reference:

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1700897674-amid-celebrations-for-freed-prisoners-palestinians-publicly-execute-collaborators Sam6897 (talk) 10:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Deltaspace (talk • contribs) 15:08, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Biased language

One of the groups depicted as fighting is "Armed settler colonialists". This is biased language that wouldn't generally be used on Misplaced Pages. I suggest changing it to armed Israeli settlers which is the norm when referring to them. 176.230.36.89 (talk) 21:13, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Npov

thr article uses mostly al jazira reports but it's perceptive ( and its objectivity or even accuricy ) at this subject is known. So, we have to use different sources and mention who reported. For example, it is little strange ( or not, really ) why events like this are not mentioned

https://m.maariv.co.il/news/military/Article-1067419 https://www.kolhair.co.il/jerusalem-news/217510/ 2.55.167.54 (talk) 22:21, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

What do they translate to? You can post an edit request The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

map not loading - technical issue?

maybe just my machine, but I will mention it: File:2023 Israel–Hamas war - West Bank.svg is supposed to load on this page. It doesn't quite seem to be deleted, but it doesn't load embedded like normal. you can click through though & view it. anyone know what's up with that? skak E L 16:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

working fine now. sorry for the minor false alarm. skak E L 22:31, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 April 2024

This edit request to Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

in the casualty part, its stating 482 killed as if they were fighters yet in the source itself it estimate 100 children were killed this is done by the JIDF to make it seem like the IDF is some super army that killed 500 palestinian fighters when in fact it killed civilians exclusively i ask for the citation to be written infront so that normies can actually understand whats actually going on Waterlover3 (talk) 16:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 10:37, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Is the PA an Israeli ally?

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria: regarding this revert: the Al-Jazeera source indeed says: "However, following July’s raid on Jenin, the body announced it would cease security cooperation with Israel."

Can you provide sources that the PA is taking part in the combat operations? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 01:05, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

PA regularly foils paramilitary operations, for example disabling IED’s and have been accused on being informants relaying information to Israeli authorities

They have also participated directly cracking down on paramilitaries, for example in this publication a tulkarm battalion member has been killed during a shootout with PA security forces

https://palinfo.com/news/2024/04/02/883691/ The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 12:07, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria: But are they on the same side as Israel or is this a three-way conflict? Or perhaps the Palestinians are having an internal conflict that is not directly related to "Israeli incursions", which is what this article is about.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

They seem to be on the same side. I have not been able to find a single notable instance of Palestinian security forces under Abbas conducting any attacks against Israeli forces invading Area A cities and in fact they seem to be “allowing” them too

meanwhile the PA is cracking down on militant factions and cells throughout the West Bank so they definitely are an active belligerent instead of a “sit and watch” party

https://www.aljazeera.net/amp/news/2024/3/31/بيانات-تحذير-من-كتائب-للمقاومة-بعد The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 03:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I just added the PA as a belligerent based on information I have gathered. Evaporation123 (talk) 06:50, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2024

This edit request to Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add flags of EQB and PIJ, It would simply look better

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 July 2024

Moved to Talk:Israel–Hamas war – Left guide (talk) 03:45, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 28 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 08:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war → West Bank theatre of the Israel–Hamas war – The war-related fighting in the West Bank isn't just limited to the IDF doing incursions, but also involves Palestinian attacks on settlers and involvement of the PA security forces. Furthermore, the proposed new title is also more concise. Evaporation123 (talk) 07:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose See Multiple Palestinians killed as Israel launches major operation in occupied West Bank and Israeli settlements surge amidst Gaza war "Israel’s current war against Hamas in Gaza, which began after the October 7 attacks, has increasingly spilled over into the West Bank with Israeli military raids, settler attacks and clashes killing hundreds of Palestinians." It's not a theatre of the war, it is an acceleration of the pre war situation. Palestinian attacks on settlers Seriously? That's just an inversion of reality.

Selfstudier (talk) 08:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose The West Bank is described as spillover of the Israel-Gaza war by RS; it is not a theater of it. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

The infobox of the Israel-Hamas war article itself describes the West Bank as a "regional theatre of operation". Not denying that it isn't a spillover- it just seems that the two terms can be used interchangeably. Perhaps Spillover of the Israel-Hamas war in the West Bank or West Bank spillover of the Israel-Hamas war might be better alternatives? Evaporation123 (talk) 18:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

the spillover part is an adjective not a name; the events are referred to in RS as Israeli incursions in West Bank; so current title is fine. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose The new title would imply all events in the article are directly apart of or caused solely by the "Israel-Hamas war", limiting the scope of the article and possibly causing confusion. Numerous events in the West Bank covered by this article are continuations of pre existing norms and, while connected to the war in Gaza, not strictly apart of it.~~~~ Mason7512 (talk) 20:05, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 18 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: MOVED to Israeli incursions in the West Bank (2023–present). A bit of a WP:BARTENDER due to the many options presented, but as no participant favors the current title a move of some kind is appropriate. I see a consensus against using the term "war", but significant opposition to the proposed "West Bank conflict" as well. There was some consensus for expanding the scope of the article to include some earlier years; such a change should be made to the article content and then addressed in a new RM specifically about the date range. I have gone with a minor change that shortens the rather lengthy current title for now, no prejudice against opening a new RM at any time. (closed by non-admin page mover) Toadspike 12:16, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war → West Bank conflict (2023–present) – Or War in the West Bank (2023–present). The Israel–Hamas war is limited to Gaza and Hamas. There is an independent article for Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) and for Red Sea crisis. These are related to the Israel–Hamas war, but rather than being against Hamas, are against Hezbollah and the Houthis, respectively. The conflict in the West Bank is similar to the state of affairs against Hezbollah before September: conflict, but not outright war, triggered by but not encompassed within the war in Gaza. In addition, the current title is extremely long, clunky, and an unlikely search term. 🐔 Chicdat 16:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. —CX Zoom 18:28, 3 December 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Feeglgeef (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

A review of sources suggests that there is no common name with variants such as Israel’s War on Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank, Israel’s war on the West Bank, As the world focuses on Gaza, the West Bank has reached boiling point. Here’s what to know, Fears of an extension of Gaza war looms over the West Bank, ‘It’s Like a Horror Movie:’ West Bank Palestinians Fear War Will Come for Them Next, Israel: Is a West Bank war imminent? and Gaza, Lebanon, West Bank: Why Is Israel Fighting So Many Wars?. Since many sources either refer to the conflict as a war or to the possibility of one, I would support something like Israeli war on the West Bank (or perhaps just West Bank war, a la Gaza War). Selfstudier (talk) 17:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Support West Bank conflict. It is correct - there is a conflict in the West Bank. I Don't believe we would find a better name, that is more accurate and less NPOV. "War" isn't appropriate here. Every war is a conflict though. Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose It's important to note that this article is specifically about an escalation in fighting in the West Bank during the Israel-Hamas war, fighting that was already happening before 7 October 2023. It basically belongs to the "spillover" category of articles like the Israel-Hezbollah conflict (2023-present) and the Red Sea crisis, all which are united in the Middle Eastern crisis (2023-present) article.

Now any "West Bank conflict" article would have to not use the Israel-Hamas war as a framework but cover fighting at least since 2021-2022. I have seen various sources that say there was a decline in West Bank violence following the Second Intifada until an escalation in 2021-2022; The current fighting since 7 October would be an escalation of that escalation, if that makes any sense. Evaporation123 (talk) 20:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: I don't think either suggested title properly represent the scope of this article, implying an undue level of symmetry. This article overwhelmingly covers Israeli raids, assaults, & arrests, alongside settler violence in the territory, with most casualties being civilians.

The use of conflict would sound almost Euphemistic to me & war overstates the situation. I'd prefer a title like Israeli incursions in the West Bank (2023–present) or if that's too long, perhaps Israel in the West Bank (2023–present). - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

- The Israel–Hamas war isn't symmetric by any means, but it isn't called Israeli military operations in Gaza (2023–present), is it? 🐔 Chicdat 20:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
  @Chicdat Firstly WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but also the reason this article specifically doesn't use "military operations" in its title is that it also covers incidents that aren't official military or government actions.
  
  Israel–Hamas war has persisted as that article's name based tenuously on WP:COMMONNAME, not on the symmetry of belligerents or casualties. This article's subject however, outside of WP:HEADLINES at least, has not been given a common name & no war has been legally declared.
  
  As there isn't a common name, we can use a descriptive one instead, of which I think my proposals above more accurately reflect this article's current scope. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 22:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: More opinions? —CX Zoom 18:28, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Support change to Israeli incursions in the West Bank (2023–present). This is not too long or cumbersome, and I feel like it is intuitive as to what it is referring to. Any clashes in 2023 prior to October 7 can also be covered in the background section</MarkiPoli> <talk /><cont /> 11:32, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Israel, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject Palestine have been notified of this discussion. Feeglgeef (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Move but not sure where to. The title of this article and the articles in its See also section reflects a bias favouring the Palestinian side... for example it links to Israeli settler violence on violence against the Palestinians but to no article that explicitly focusses on violence against Israelis, which also exists. This is a controversial area and likely to remain one with overall NPOV difficult to achieve and impossible to agree upon, but we can do a little better in this case and should do so. Andrewa (talk) 03:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
How does the current title reflect "a bias favouring the Palestinian side"?

Also, this article lists Israeli settler violence in the see also section because there's a section called Settler violence and depopulation of villages, so it's directly relevant. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 04:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Categories: