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This "disambiguation" page was the subject of a prod. Its talk page reflects solid proof why it does not deserve to exist because it does not "disambiguate" between any articles but only links to outside dubious websites, violating WP:NOT#LINK and WP:NOT#WEBSPACE and WP:NOT#DIRECTORY. It also seems to have been created to get around deletion of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/True Torah Jews. See Talk:Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation) for full discussion about problems, especially as noted by User:MPerel that "jewsagainstzionism.org is registered to Roland Rance and is a small secular group. The registration gives a contact address in London. It redirects to Jews Against Zionism. jewsagainstzionism.com is registered privately and anonymously via 3rd party GoDaddy.com and its ownership is therefore unknown and unverifiable. The unverifiable and anonymous jewsagainstzionism.com site is often confused with jewsnotzionists.com, the latter which is registered to Yisroel Weiss." And User:zzuuzz has stated: "This page was recently prod-deleted and restored. Until very recently it would have been a speedy deletion candidate, and it probably still is. Disambiguation pages serve to disambiguate between articles with potentially the same name. Here, there are no articles, not even one. I have no doubt this page would be deleted at AfD, and I'm slightly bemused as to why a restoration was requested. Is it going to start disambiguating articles, or shall we take a waltz through AfD?" This also violates WP:NOT#SOAPBOX. It is also bound to be a POV magnet. IZAK 08:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete for above reasons. IZAK 08:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. IZAK 08:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete A disambiguation page which doesn't "disambiguate" anything at all. Nick mallory 08:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep I created this disambig page in order to remove a clear ambiguity. IZAK is mistaken in his assumption that the page was "created to get around deletion of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/True Torah Jews".The problem is that there are several groups, both religious and secular, using the name Jews Against Zionism. A number of other articles refer to the secular group Jews Against Zionism, but before the disambiguation page was created links on the pages were redirected to the article on the religious group Neturei Karta (which does not actually use this name). This was clearly inappropriate, and it was necessary to clartify this. I believe that the individual groups are notable enough to merit their own articles, and I could write one on the secular group. I am reluctant to do so because I am a leading activist in the group, and this could be seen as self-promotion; but, if other editors agree that this could be acceptable, then I will produce a draft, in as NPOV a way as I can. in the hope that others will amend and improve it. Given the background, I think that it would be a mistake to delete this page, and to further the ambiguities. RolandR 08:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Roland: While your edits may have gone in one direction, the recent edits by Yidisheryid (talk · contribs) were clearly meant to lead back to the "True Torah Jews" issue. Also, you seem to miss the reasons behind this AfD, nothing has been mentioned about anyone's POV or NPOV, so why do you bring that up? This AfD is because it does not meet the requirements of a Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation page, see also Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation pages with links and Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation pages with links/Guide that make it quite clear that disambiguation pages are for Misplaced Pages articles and not for external websites of a dubious sort. Thank you, IZAK 10:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep and write the articles quickly including a serious attempt by a neutral party at replacement of the previous deleted article with real sourcing if it exists. Stub articles would do, as long as it is clear there are sources. DGG (talk) 12:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I did so but it was deleted speedily. --יודל 14:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Strong Keep the Satmar group should never had been deleted since it is real and alive with weekly citations in the Yiddish media. I am a user who reads Yiddish and can easily provide you with those much needed sources. Please keep in mind that this org is nothing more then a think thank to spread Satmar Rebbe's view on Zinism, all they do is take money from Satamr Hasidim in order to make radio and Newspaper ads and pay for a website and publish books and leaflets, they have 9 respected board members but their website is not like any other website since their rabbis are opposed to internet, so they do not list an address and telephone number, just the bare minimum. The Satmar community today is divided in 2 parts, this org is the only org that has the backing of both party's. I already work on a article with citations and sources to establish its notability.--יודל 12:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete per my talk page comments above. There are no articles even linking to this page except a redirect from Jews against zionism (and that has nothing linking to it either). Unless someone quickly writes another article to disambiguate on this page, and it can exist without any external links (see MOS:DAB), in which case set up the disambiguation at Jews Against Zionism, but only if there are Misplaced Pages articles to disambiguate. -- zzuuzz 12:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Please look back in the history and on its talk page and see that those who want to dleete have asked to block a user simply for qouting this site, so he was forced to change his link, and it does have an atrticle leading to neturei karta--יודל 13:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. Useless disambig. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 13:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Useless disambig attempting to use wikipedia as a vehicle to push various points-of-view. Avi 14:14, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Strong Delete: Agree with above, this is a useless disambiguation page. Doesn't help anything. - Rjd0060 14:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete This page does not disambiguate any Misplaced Pages articles, neither currently nor when it was first created. --Shirahadasha 14:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I see many articles, Natrina Neturei karta and more that were already speedily erased while you were writing this, with utterly disregard for conflict of interest here.--יודל 14:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Natrina was created with extreme disregard for wikipedia policy. Please see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/True Torah Jews and WP:CSD, focusing on G4. Neturei karta was not, and will not, be deleted, speedy or otherwise, as the group is sufficiently notable to warrant a wiki article. Please restrict yourself to facts and not suppositions, unjustified accusations, or misrepresentations of wikipedia policy. Thank you. -- Avi 14:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I see only one user going personnel here and everybody sees whats his name. But now that it was asked i will answer it: This was deleted by a user who has voted to delete in his words POV pushing while he himself goes ahead and deletes the article so his POV should win. This is a perfect example of a conflict of interest here. and its not the first time those sysop tools were used in such a way, this issue suffered already before of this while the article Haredim and Zionism was blocked for a week with unsourced slanderers line. So lets straitened out the FACT: The article Natrina was re-established as a stub as other users have requested here, and it was deleted here by a deleter vote!--יודל 15:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Once again, please read WP:CSD section G4. The article in question was not significantly different from the one deleted, and as such was a classic speedy candidate. Your near-constant resorting to ad hominem attacks when you lack any other support for your arguments, such as wikipedia policy or facts, is becoming more and more of a hindrance. So is your penchant for changing headings (as you still do after nearly being severely sanctioned for it) as well as your propensity to push specific points of view. It is in your best interest to review the discussions that occurred on WP:ANI and see how you can continue to contribute gainfully without disrupting process or policy. -- Avi 15:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- This Admin should not be an issue here, but I think asking to delete something while saying that your concern is POV while using some tools that other do not have to delete something else to win your vote against others, is not a personal attack, it is simply a way how to put an editing history in focus. This is a real conflict of interest here and i hope everybody can understand why, if not i am mistaken and i would apologize.--יודל 15:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Once again, please read WP:CSD section G4. The article in question was not significantly different from the one deleted, and as such was a classic speedy candidate. Your near-constant resorting to ad hominem attacks when you lack any other support for your arguments, such as wikipedia policy or facts, is becoming more and more of a hindrance. So is your penchant for changing headings (as you still do after nearly being severely sanctioned for it) as well as your propensity to push specific points of view. It is in your best interest to review the discussions that occurred on WP:ANI and see how you can continue to contribute gainfully without disrupting process or policy. -- Avi 15:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I see only one user going personnel here and everybody sees whats his name. But now that it was asked i will answer it: This was deleted by a user who has voted to delete in his words POV pushing while he himself goes ahead and deletes the article so his POV should win. This is a perfect example of a conflict of interest here. and its not the first time those sysop tools were used in such a way, this issue suffered already before of this while the article Haredim and Zionism was blocked for a week with unsourced slanderers line. So lets straitened out the FACT: The article Natrina was re-established as a stub as other users have requested here, and it was deleted here by a deleter vote!--יודל 15:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I am uncertain how you can view a clear-cut case of upholding a wikipedia policy as a "conflict-of-interest"? If anything, your editing history demonstrates a significant propensity towards a point-of-view and a disregard for wikipedia policies? -- Avi 15:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Conflict of interest means that even though policy says that the article must be erased or even though some user must be blocked, the Admin who had his conflict on the matter cannot do it because of conflict of interest.--יודל 15:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Natrina was created with extreme disregard for wikipedia policy. Please see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/True Torah Jews and WP:CSD, focusing on G4. Neturei karta was not, and will not, be deleted, speedy or otherwise, as the group is sufficiently notable to warrant a wiki article. Please restrict yourself to facts and not suppositions, unjustified accusations, or misrepresentations of wikipedia policy. Thank you. -- Avi 14:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I see many articles, Natrina Neturei karta and more that were already speedily erased while you were writing this, with utterly disregard for conflict of interest here.--יודל 14:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- And being that this was a clear-cut case of a wikipedia violation, and being that I have no personal or professional relationship with any organization pro- or con- Zionism, there is no issue. Now please stop trying to create issues where there are none and restrict yourself to content and policy, and not people. -- Avi 15:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Being that you have declared this issue a POV Pushing and being that u used some tools that others dont have to win this debate i ask other Admins to restore the artice in question since it is being rather drastically improved by me and it was addressed successfully all the issues raised in the initial deletion. It is still a stub and most users have declared it fine if effort is being put into it to establish notability which i will do. Everybody has his POV mine is clear and yours is also clear so lets have a chance to make our views reach some consensus and not use one stronger hand against the other to win the issue.--יודל 15:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- The place to request that a deletion be overturned is WP:DRV. -- Avi 15:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks please dont make work harder then needed, you erased this article clearly agaisnt the rules and polices of an Admin, You were clearly invoved here and have already expressed your desire to delete it, be so kind and give it to me i will not make it into an article i will simply put it in my sandbox to work on it until its perfect. I know you have already said that you wont bock me becaouse you don't want to use your sysop tools in a way to win discussions, please do the same here and undo your actions if you are right why win it with tools that others don't have? let the system of consensus building play out its role. I don't beleave it should be put back as a stub now since you don't want it but i promise you i will work on it to perfect it i have already experience with fixing deleted articles trust me--יודל 15:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Once again, I suggest you carefully review wikipedia policy and guidelines. Making improper and unfounded accusations of impropriety is considered a personal attack, of which you have made a number on this page already. Those kinds of edits are not allowed on wikipedia, of which you have been informed a number of times already. -- Avi 15:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- For the 5'th time i do not see where pointing out a conflict of interest is a personal attack, i see you have said this about me endless times but i am still waiting for third opinion here to see if i was wrong. so please do not repeat yourself against my actions, becaouse you and i aren't the issue here. 2 users, DGG and i have thought it proper to re-esteblish the articles as stubs, you have done what you have done against us, now lets wait for others to express their opinions here--יודל 15:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Once again, I suggest you carefully review wikipedia policy and guidelines. Making improper and unfounded accusations of impropriety is considered a personal attack, of which you have made a number on this page already. Those kinds of edits are not allowed on wikipedia, of which you have been informed a number of times already. -- Avi 15:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks please dont make work harder then needed, you erased this article clearly agaisnt the rules and polices of an Admin, You were clearly invoved here and have already expressed your desire to delete it, be so kind and give it to me i will not make it into an article i will simply put it in my sandbox to work on it until its perfect. I know you have already said that you wont bock me becaouse you don't want to use your sysop tools in a way to win discussions, please do the same here and undo your actions if you are right why win it with tools that others don't have? let the system of consensus building play out its role. I don't beleave it should be put back as a stub now since you don't want it but i promise you i will work on it to perfect it i have already experience with fixing deleted articles trust me--יודל 15:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- The place to request that a deletion be overturned is WP:DRV. -- Avi 15:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Being that you have declared this issue a POV Pushing and being that u used some tools that others dont have to win this debate i ask other Admins to restore the artice in question since it is being rather drastically improved by me and it was addressed successfully all the issues raised in the initial deletion. It is still a stub and most users have declared it fine if effort is being put into it to establish notability which i will do. Everybody has his POV mine is clear and yours is also clear so lets have a chance to make our views reach some consensus and not use one stronger hand against the other to win the issue.--יודל 15:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)