Misplaced Pages

:Arbitration/Requests - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Arbitration

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by User2004 (talk | contribs) at 20:13, 23 August 2005 (New request - Rangerdude). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 20:13, 23 August 2005 by User2004 (talk | contribs) (New request - Rangerdude)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) Shortcut
  • ]

The last step of dispute resolution is a request for arbitration. Please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee.

Dispute resolution
(Requests)
Tips
Content disputes
Conduct disputes
Arbitration Committee proceedings Case requests

Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Palestine-Israel articles 5 (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 21 Dec 2024 11 Jan 2025
Recently closed cases (Past cases)

No cases have recently been closed (view all closed cases).

Clarification and Amendment requests

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

Arbitrator motions
Motion name Date posted
Arbitrator workflow motions 1 December 2024

The procedure for accepting requests is described in the Arbitration policy. If you are going to make a request here, you must be brief and cite supporting diffs. New requests to the top, please. You are required to place a notice on the user talk page of each person you lodge a complaint against.

0/0/0/0 corresponds to Arb Com member votes to accept/reject/recuse/other.

This is not a page for discussion, and arbitrators may summarily remove discussion without comment.

Current requests

Template

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

If not, then explain why that would be fruitless

Statement by party 1

Please limit your statement to 500 words

Statement by party 2

Please limit your statement to 500 words

Rangerdude

Involved parties

Summary

Rangerdude is harassing editors who disagree with his POV.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

User talk:Rangerdude#Requests for Arbitration 19:59, August 23, 2005

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

On June 10, I received a request from mediator user:MacGyverMagic to enter mediation on "Houston Chronicle". I acknowledged my interest in mediation, and on June 14 I saw a mediation page had been set up so I tried to participate. Rangerdude refused.

Rangerdude and I filed cross-complaints on June 15, including and Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Rangerdude. We subsequently agreed to mediation and the RfC was withdrawn.

We both agreed to a mediator, Andrevan. Mediation never proceeded because we couldn't agree on how to proceed, despite the mediator's repeated inquiries (Rangerdude said that I might stalk him via email, and I said that I did not want a public mediation). Rangerdude referred in some places to "mediation against" me, possibly indicating bad faith in the dispute resolution process.

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Cberlet & Willmcw was posted by Rangerdude on July 25, 2005 and closed by him on July 30, 2005.

Statement by Willmcw

Harassment of editors Rangerdude is harassing and bullying editors who disagree with him or his edits. His goal seems to be either to end our involvement as editors or to punish us for disagreeing with him.

Cberlet Rangerdude brought an RfC against Cberlet and myself on account of our edit work on Ludwig von Mises Institute. The RfC charged us with "lack of civility, disruption, POV pushing, personal attacks on other editors, disregard of WP policies, disregard of talk page and consensus-building efforts, bad faith edits and assumptions". Only four editors (two of them LvMI associates) certified or endorsed Rangerdude's statement, while 14 endorsed Cberlet's statement and a total of ten editors posted separate views, most of which were against Rangerdude and some which received wide support. On the basis of that outcome, it appears that the community strongly rejected Rangerdude's view.

Rangerdude then heavily and contentiously edited Chip Berlet's biography and sought to have Berlet's published research deemed too extreme to use as a source for Misplaced Pages articles. At the same time he actively edited and created articles about one of Berlet's real-life adversaries, David Horowitz, with a positive POV.

FuelWagon FuelWagon was one of the more vocal editors in the RfC, despite having had no prior involvement with either of us. He wrote a clearly-worded and boldy-formatted comment saying that the problem lay more with Rangerdude than with Cberlet or me. Rangerdude first reformatted his comment then effectively tried to add FuelWagon to the RfC. Shortly after the close of that RfC Rangerdude filed a separate RfC against FuelWagon. Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/FuelWagon. The charges include having a "belligerent" tone in RfCs and filing a "false 3RR warning against another user". The RfC against FuelWagon received no endorsements or co-certifications. An opposing view received four endorsements within the initial 48-hour period.

SlimVirgin Rangerdude has also harassed SlimVirgin, who had had no editing interactions with him prior to commenting on the Cberlet/Willmcw RfC, and whose crime seems to have been speaking positively about us. In a number of edits he attacked her by name and he has made attacks on "wiki-cliques" that seem directed at SlimVirgin and other editors. He apparently opposed Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/FeloniousMonk simply because SlimVirgin was the nominator.

Willmcw Rangerdude has been attacking me as a "stalker" since June, 2005. He uses the de-listed RfC as an "attack file" with an ever-growing list of charges. I responded initially, but have not replied to every new addition. Rangerdude has copied and extended that file (minus my responses and other discussion) at User:Rangerdude/sandbox1/Evidence of willmcws wiki-stalking. He brandishes the charge as an attack in talk pages and edit summaries. (Recent instances: ) He seeks out other editors to warn them about my supposedly-abusive behavior, encourages them to bring dispute actions, and repeats the charges as a reason for editors to disregard my opinion.

Katefan0 Rangerdude bullies Katefan0 in their editing disagreements, such as in Talk:Jim Robinson and Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion/Jim Robinson.

Other issues From his earliest edits Rangerdude has been a POV warrior with a strongly pro/neo-confederate bias. He both shows bad faith and fails to assume good faith in others. He has followed my edits with an apparent intent to harass, in ways that mimic his own definition of wikistalking.

Statement by party 2

Please limit your statement to 500 words

Maoririder

Involved parties

Party 1 (Initiators)
Party 2
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by party 1

Maoririder has been disrupting the Misplaced Pages community in a unique way. He seems to highly enjoy creating an extremely high volume of new articles, but almost always created incredibly short stubs. Examples: . Sometimes, he will tag his own articles for cleanup or expand .

He has created his own stub templates, usually with incorrect style and grammar, without checking to see if a more appropriate template already exists, or building consensus within the appropriate wikiproject. For example, Template:Route-stub. Detailed discussion of his stub templates can be found at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries#Newly discovered, August 2005.

He has on several occasions posted to a VfD discussion's talk page, rather than the discussion page itself, even though it has been pointed out to him that this is improper.

As of late, he has taken to disrupting Misplaced Pages:Reference Desk by asking inane questions, often several in a short period of time. are three examples from a slew of edits made within minutes.

Further examples of his disruptive editing are listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Maoririder#Evidence of disputed behavior.

It seems plausible that Maori is a child, autistic, or otherwise developmentally challenged. With that in mind, many users have been extremely patient and attempted to mentor him into a more productive user. Once it was obvious that this effort was futile, and the RfC was drawn up, he began to evade any attempts of communication, often by logging in as new sockpuppets. Several users have now put many hours each into cleaning up after Maori, as well as attempts to mentor him. The ongoing problem has been a serious drain on good editors and Special:Newpages patrollers.

Statement by party 2

Please limit your statement to 500 words

Statement by 3rd party CVaneg

I think this edit: in which Maoririder seems to acknowledge the annoying behavior of one of his sock puppets is a good reason to not assume good faith --CVaneg 20:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

UninvitedCompany

Involved parties

Summary
  • Abuse of adminship
  • Blocking, permanently, without support from the arbitration comittee, a user who opposes the admin's POV being pushed
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
    • AHEM! Haven't you forgotten the Mediation Committee? (Me and Brandon Yusuf had an outstandingly successful mediation.) Uncle Ed 02:40, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Statement by party 1 (-Ril-)

Getting inappropriately involved in Edit Wars
Taking revenge for preventing POV pushing
Taking further revenge
Summary

UninvitedCompany is clearly an involved user, who clearly has an opinion of -Ril-, and is clearly, and self-admittedly, extremely anti-Islamic, in contrast to -Ril-. Therefore, UninvitedCompany should not be blocking -Ril- unilaterally, or indefinitely.

Requested Temporary injuctions

I, -Ril-, would like, solely for the duration of this RFAR, the following temporary injunctions

  • UninvitedCompany to be de-sysopped ("adminship is no big deal, so why should de-adminship be" - paraphrase of Ed Poor)
  • -Ril- to be unblocked
  • -Ril-'s talk page to be unprotected
  • UninvitedCompany to be prohibited from editing -Ril-'s user page

--~~~~ ( ! | ? | * ) 15:19, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by party 2 (UninvitedCompany)

My position, and that of the Misplaced Pages community, with regard to -Ril- is already summarized at these locations:

I would be happy to provide a further statement if any of the arbiters request it.

The Uninvited Co., Inc. 13:17, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Statements by other parties

Michael Snow

Please note that -Ril- is still subject to the indefinite block imposed by UninvitedCompany. -Ril- has resorted to a number of sockpuppets and IP addresses to evade the block. There has been a notable lack of enthusiasm for lifting this block (this is what -Ril- characterizes as a "lynch mob"). Given the concerns expressed by two arbitrators and alluded to by -Ril-, I offered to lift it if the Arbitration Committee devised an appropriate temporary injunction against -Ril-, but no such injunction has been forthcoming.

Additionally, a number of users suspect -Ril- to be a reincarnation of banned user Lir. Actually, I personally do not believe this, but have instead come to the conclusion that -Ril- is a different banned user. Based on language and IP evidence, -Ril- is clearly British, whereas Lir as I recall was in the US. Additionally, -Ril- has a couple notable characteristics, a tendency to latch onto particular biblical topics, and a habit of naming sockpuppet accounts along a particular theme. This combination leads me to believe that -Ril- is another notoriously disruptive user of sockpuppets, specifically CheeseDreams. --Michael Snow 16:13, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Phroziac

This has gone a little too far, in my opinion. It is gaming the system to make a fourth revert 24:20 after the first, and say it is not 3rr. There is never an excuse to violate 3rr. I have never violated 1rr personally. The block was an obvious example of a perfect IAR use. WikiProject Wikipedians for Decency did not need pictures of "indecency". This is no different then putting a picture of a penis on the main page. UninvitedCompany should probably not use admin features on a page he has a very strong POV in, except for obvious vandalism, 3rr, etc. An indefinite block is not the same as permanent, and UninvitedCompany was well within IAR to do that. The "vandalism" on -Ril-'s userpage was useful information, but perhaps it should not have been blanked. There is nothing wrong with those images, but they are there to illustrate articles in the encyclopedia. They are not there to put on wikiprojects, the main page, or anywhere else that they obviously do not belong. That was not a lynch mob. -Ril- should not excessively use loaded words to push his argument. This RFAr is very silly. --Phroziac 23:40, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (1/0/0/0)

User:Wiglaf

Involved Parties

User:J M Rice User:Wiglaf

Abuse of administrator privilege.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Wiglaf notified at User_talk:Wiglaf

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

It appears that Misplaced Pages:Administrators#Administrator_abuse has determined that administrator abuse cases are to be handled by the Arbitration Committee. Also, since the threat has already been issued, mediation would seem moot.

Statement by J M Rice

I have received, at User_talk:J_M_Rice, a user block threat by administrator Wiglaf, who considers my use of the term "inane fans" on Talk:Elf to be a "personal attack" not only on individuals but upon him/her personally. The language of the threat, "If I see any futher comments such as inane fans about myself, great contributors such as User:Salleman or others, it will be my pleasure to block you for violation of No personal attacks" is in itself abusive. The underlying issue involves my attempt to remove copyright material and repeated reverts of my edit. My use of "inane fans" referred to no one in particular. It has apparently been taken personally by the individuals involved in the edit war, who have chosen to sic their administrator friend upon me. In any case "inane fans" certainly does not rise to the level of "extreme personal abuse" which No_personal_attacks specifies.

Is this the conduct which Misplaced Pages invisions for its administrators? If Wiglaf is not to be removed as administrator, then I request that Wiglaf be admonished from further abuse of his administrator privilege and from making further threats or other action against me in this matter. Administrator privileges are said to be granted liberally, and it is my contention that there are inevitably individuals who find the need to use their powers out of pique, much as "cowboy" policemen, or to further personal agendas.

Statement by Wiglaf

Surely it is my duty to warn users about the seriousness of personal attacks. I do not think we should accept such behaviour. Note also that I was not involved in a content dispute with J M Rice at the time. I reacted against his use of the expressions idiots and inane fans about those who had contributed at Elf . If we have a look at his edit summaries it is pretty evident that he likes to use strong expressions, such as mess , garbage and potentially offensive expressions such as gay POV and opinion about the contributions of other users. Personal attacks, trolling and disruption are serious problems at Misplaced Pages and I believe that we should warn users that we are serious about such behaviour.--Wiglaf 06:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Interested third parties

Statement by third party Shauri

Being the user involved in the original discussion with J M Rice which later motivated this dispute, and thus having first hand knowledge of the underlying facts, I agree there is an attitude problem regarding said user which makes the warning left at his Talk Page by Wiglaf not only a legitimate exercise of administrator's authority, but also one that should be praised.

On August 20th, J M Rice removed two pictures (from the Lord of the Rings movies, both under Fair Use) from the Elf article , allegedly due to copyright issues. However, he left another two images (both under the same copyright status) at the afforementioned article untouched . At the ensuing dispute over this undiscussed change, J M Rice expressed the true motive behind his edit (which he had masked with the supossed concern of copyright issues); namely, his simple dislike of the article being illustrated with LoTR pictures, which he believes is the result of the activities of "inane fans" and "idiots" . Unlike he presents it here, the terms of the personal attacks were not directed in general but to those specific users who had disagreed with his criteria, as he manifests in a message left at my Talk Page (please note the tone of the message) and Salleman's . Only then, and without any previous contact, Wiglaf learns of the issue and proceeds to warn J M Rice about the transgresion of the No_personal_attacks rules.

I wish to make clear that no contact between me and Wiglaf has ever taken place, not prior nor during this dispute (the sole exception being a greeting and support message later left by him at my Talk Page ), thus rendering the claim of having "chosen to sic their administrator friend upon " completely false. I also had no involvement whatsoever in the uploading nor the tagging of the pictures in question.

The general tone, the bad names calling, the threats, the contempt for other users' contributions and the refusal of reaching an offered agreement (as I suggested at the article's Talk Page and at his own one ) that J M Rice has repeatedly demonstrated along this process make clear to me that Wiglaf has made a rightful use of his authority as an admin, acting correctly to warn him of the possible consequences of said actions, and that this legitimate exercise of authority constitutes no abuse of his position whatsoever. Shauri 13:55, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (0/2/0/0)

Anonymous Editor 24.147.97.230 and other addresses

Involved parties

Statement by party 1

Either a single anonymous editor, using multiple IP addresses but primarily 24.147.97.230 , or multiple anonymous editors, have been engaged in an extended edit war on the Ted Kennedy page, and now also the Rosemary Kennedy page.

A complete list of addresses in use is found at Misplaced Pages: Requests for comment/24.147.97.230.

There are two issues, content issues and conduct issues. I am not asking the ArbCom to resolve the content issues. However, the conduct issues make it impossible to resolve the content issues. The page has been under page protection twice in the past two months to stop the edit wars and revert wars.

The content issues are whether particular sections that are negative to Ted Kennedy and to Joseph Kennedy Sr. should be included. The majority of signed-in editors think that these sections are non-encyclopedic and should not be included. The anonymous editors have insisted on continuing to add (revert) the same sections. They have accused the other editors of failing to negotiate in good faith.

The first content issue was the inclusion of an external link to an attack web site from the Ted Kennedy page. Multiple anonymous IP addresses added the link, no more than three addresses in a 24-hour period, which appears to be gaming the system. The page was then protected by an admin. After some search for a mediator, Kelly Martin agreed to try to mediate. This resulted in her conclusion that there was a consensus against inclusion of the link.

The anonymous editors have now tried to add the link to the web site for Rosemary Kennedy, who was only a victim and should not be the subject of having her family ridiculed. Claims that there was a consensus against the inclusion of the link are being rejected.

There were two more revert wars over the inclusion of material of little encyclopedic value. Editors who think that these paragraphs should not be included have been willing to have quickpolls on their relevance. However, the anonymous editors have altered the polls, and have accused their opponents (incorrectly) of POV pushing and disregard for consensus.

Since discussion is not working, and requests for other methods of discussion are not working, I request arbitration as a last resort.

I am requesting, as an interim measure, that the ArbCom issue a temporary injunction against anonymous edits to the Ted Kennedy and Rosemary Kennedy articles until this matter is arbitrated.

Statement by party 2

Please limit your statement to 500 words


Hello, I'm not sure exactly what User:Robert McClenon is really looking for here. This user has filed FOUR RFCs to have users blocked in 30 days, the same 30 days of his new membership. I am the target of one of these RFCs. This is an average of one per week. As to my conduct, my conduct is proper. The issues I have involve a group of editors who delete and revert material on pages related to Kennedys. They are extreme POV pushers and refuse to negociate. As to User:Robert McClenon, If he can give a specific and exact description of what his is looking to come to an agreement on I would be willing to participate. It is a bit of a surprise as this user wrote this today, "I have no interest in mediation with any anonymous editor. Robert McClenon 22:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)" 24.147.97.230 02:47, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Interested third parties

I urge ArbCom to deal with this matter. This editor's conduct has not been proper in any way, shape, or form. This IP address initially started editing here by inserting a promotional link for the fatboy.cc anti-Kennedy website and now is intent on inserting large chunks of material derived from that website. S/he has unleashed an army of sockpuppets to start a revert war to insert two large, POV sections of dubious encyclopedic value. A large consensus of editors of numerous political persuasions opposes the insertion of the material in its current form. Instead of seeking a compromise or an alternative way to insert some of the same facts in the article (as many of those editors have repeatedly stated they were open to) this editor insists that everyone who disagrees with the insertion of those two sections is a pro-Kennedy partisan, a vandal, a POV warrior, etc., etc. This editor is essentially a one issue POV war and this sort of anti-wiki behavior should be stopped now. Gamaliel 04:49, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

If taken to ArbCom, Gamaliel needs to be a party to this. He/She is one of the most POV editors at the Kennedy Site and has co-written an RFC against me. 24.147.97.230 15:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

For the record, I did not write the RFC, though I did sign it, as did four other editors to date, and I agree with what Robert McClenon wrote. Also, if I am drafted into this proceeding, so should the rest of the ten or so editors who have participated in forming the consensus against 24.147's POV edits in that article. Gamaliel 16:12, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

comment from third party: FuelWagon

My involvment in this article was to post a reply to an article RFC some time ago regarding whether or not the article should include the "fatboy.cc" link. My comment at the time was something to the effect that the website seemed one step above juvenile bathroom humor, its only claim to fame is several pictures of Kennedy's naked stomach and a picture with a roadmap superimposed over his nose. This site is equivalent to finding a comment about someone scribbled on a bathroom wall with anatomically correct sketches included. I consider the site to be an embarrassment to be listed on wikipedia. And to use policy-language: it is unencyclopedic and non-notable. a number of editors agreed and the consensus seemed to be drop it. several anon IP editors voted to keep the link, but user jpgordon pointed out that most of these anon votes are from IP addresses that made only 1 edit, which would indicate ballot stuffing by one of the editors engaged in the dispute or the strangest voting dynamic I've seen on wikipedia. Despite consensus to drop it, 24.147.97.230 continues to push to have the fatboy.cc website listed. The ballot stuffing incident and the insistence to include a grout-writing URL despite consensus to drop it (at least among the registered users) is enough of a red-flag that good faith can no longer be assumed and that processes for dispute resolution that require good-faith (RFC's and mediation) will not work. FuelWagon 00:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

RE: ballot stuffing. In any wikipedia poll, I could find a website or mailing list or blog that supports my position and spam them saying "hey people, wikipedia is trying to suppress your point of view. Your vote is needed now!" or some equally partisan bit of propaganda, give them a URL to a wikipedia talk page with the poll in question, and then sit back and watch the votes tally up. I could do that, but I wouldn't. To me, polls are among editors who are actually doing the work, making the contributions, and investing the time to make the article better. i.e. polls are a way for editors to resolve disputes amongst themselves. The idea of getting outside, non-contributers to vote in a poll simply to force the result a certain way is not what I would call a good-faith attempt to resolve a dispute between editors who are actually working and contributing to an article. FuelWagon 14:53, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Previous Dispute Resolution

There have been three previous article Requests for Comments to try to resolve these content and conduct issues.

There was one previous attempt at mediation (via a non-MedCom procedure), by Kelly Martin. She concluded that there was a consensus against adding the "fatboy.cc" link to the Ted Kennedy site. However, the advocates of adding the link dispute the claim of consensus.

Please understand that I, the "anon" initiated this previous attempt at mediation and contacted Kelly Martin24.147.97.230 02:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Since a previous RFM has not resulted in a truce, I have no reason to believe that mediation will have any effect again.

A Request for Comments was posted about the conduct of the anonymous editors. Their response was to post a Request for Comments about my conduct. This does not seem to provide any evidence that they are willing to try to change their conduct.

Again, please understand the user Robert McClenon has posted the above mentioned RFC...as he has done to 3 other users in 30 days, his first 30 days at Misplaced Pages24.147.97.230 02:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

This arbitration request is premature. The last step of dispute resolution should be a request for arbitration. User:Robert_McClenon has, to date, refused to engage in mediation with User:24.147.97.230,. An attempt at mediation should always be made before it reaches this stage.--Agiantman 21:33, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Response to claim of premature arbitration request:
  1. Mediation, as noted above and below, has been attempted. I see no reason to delay arbitration simply to permit another round of mediation, which I expect will not result in a compromise, to delay arbitration.
  2. The above statement that the RfAr is premature is being filed by someone who is not a first, second, or third party to this proceeding at this time. I have stated that I am willing to go to mediation with Agiantman, but not with 24.147.97.230. Robert McClenon 22:44, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Confirmation of Parties' Awareness

  1. Party 1 Robert McClenon 01:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  2. Party 2 http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:24.147.97.230&diff=21539886&oldid=21536212

Statement by involved third party

I was invited to mediate a dispute on this article related to the inclusion of a specific external link. However, I concluded that the dispute was not mediatable as there was no middle ground that the parties would consider acceptable. The parties were (understandably) unwilling to submit to third-party arbitration of the acceptability of the link. At that point, I listed the issue on RFC and a reasonably civil discussion ensued, in which a number of editors (all save one posting from anonymous addresses) argued in support of the link, and a number of established Wikipedians argued against inclusion of the link. At the point where it appeared to me that the discussion had terminated, I offered my opinion as to the apparent consensus of the Misplaced Pages community regarding the issue. At the time the lead anon advocating for this link (the only one with any significant edit history) appeared to accept that conclusion. I have not, however, continued to monitor the article after the point at which the dispute seemed to be resolved, nor have I monitored the editing of any of the parties on other related or unrelated articles.

It is my impression that the flock of anons are not sockpuppets of the lead anon, but instead distinct likeminded individuals acting at his direction or urging: this appears to be a "grassroots" effort to influence Misplaced Pages consensus rather than a single individual trying to appear to be more than one person. Kelly Martin 18:58, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (1/0/1/1)

User:DreamGuy

Involved parties

User:DreamGuy User:Gavin the chosen, User:Gabrielsimon(who was me until recently) , User:Elvenscout742

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

dreamguy notified here

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

I have tried beiong rasonable, he refuses to negociate, and calls me harsasing, or vandal, or worse. i have gone as far as switching accounts, a few tiems not to well, to try to distance myself from him, so that we could both continue to edit in peace, that didnt work, i have tried an RFC, one of the resolution points was that he would try to bve civil, this hasnt happened, i can see no further recourse for an incurably incivil person such as he.Gavin the Chosen 02:27, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Though I do not support this nomination whatsoever, as it looks like pure revenge, I would like to save people the time and link to the earlier RFCs - Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/DreamGuy-2 Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/DreamGuy. You would think that a remotely reasonable requester would have done kind of basic editing before sending up the request. Hipocrite 13:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Gavin the Chosen

See Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/DreamGuy/Statement

statement by party 2

This is a spurious charge bringing up mostly ancient history by someone who is all but blocked in his own RfAr for countless proven cases of uncivility, admitted sockpuppeting, extreme serial 3RR violations, removing other people's edits to try to hide things, etc. I bend over backwards to try to work with him, being far, far more civil to him than he is to me or anyone else for that matter (see his recent edits where he calls everyone who disagrees with him about Otherkin as "delusional" and "paranoid" "out to get him" etc.), and when he doesn't get his own way (running me off articles completely so he can make highly biased edits) he complains that I have a problem. He also tried to file a RfAr against me under one of his sockpuppets accounts earlier (I think Ketrovin, perhaps Khulhy, a quick check through history should find it) and was rightly spurned, and the second RfC in question that he refers to was closed amicably by all parties involved except for him. This is a bad faith revenge RfAr because I keep reporting him for violations and he keeps getting blocked.

Further, Vashti's claim below that I am uncivil is also odd, considering that he was called me a prima donna who he doesn't have to listen to and edit warred against consensus on several articles (the ones Gavin is involved in). Perhaps his complete is sincere, but he should use the standard conflict resolution process instead of jumping in and trying to egg on a bad faith complaint by an editor who has already agreed to serial blocking starting with a month ban as a way to avoid even more serious actions against him for his chronic and purposeful policy violations. It's only too bad that his punishment hasn;t started yet, as whenever he gets back from a temporary block he's back immediately to blind reverts, edit warring, outrageous personal attacks and nonsense complaints that just waste everyone's time. DreamGuy 11:46, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Interested third parties

Statement by third party Vashti

Having tried to work with DreamGuy for several months now, I agree that there is a serious problem here that needs to be sorted out, and goes far beyond the feud with User:Gabrielsimon/User:Gavin the Chosen which has recently come to the attention of ArbCom. DreamGuy is extremely aggressive in discussion and quick to take offence. He constantly violates WP:NPA and makes little attempt to assume good faith, while at the same time using these policies as a club to beat people who have been provoked by his extreme behaviour. It is likely that he has done at least some productive work here, but he appears to spend large amounts of his time on a variety of edit wars that end up disrupting many pages. Vashti 10:49, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

We really need some evidence here rather than just your opinion. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 18:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Gavin_the_Chosen&diff=prev&oldid=21156031 this link preceeding my words was DreamGuys response that Vashti speaks of.Gavin the Chosen 18:15, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Hm. While some of the links Gavin provided aren't in my opinion valid complaints, a lot of them are. Is that not sufficient? Vashti 18:27, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
See my comment below. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 18:57, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Here's the record of my calling DreamGuy a prima donna, by the way.
As part of User:Gavin the Chosen's RFAr, I leave a comment trying to tactfully defuse some of his antagonism towards DreamGuy. I use phrases like "you are just as bad as he is" to first acknowledge Gavin's feelings that he is entirely in the right, while trying to get him to see that he is in fact causing a large number of his own problems.
DreamGuy takes offence at this and leaves a comment telling me to knock it off.
I can see evidence of him taking offense. I don't see evidence of him instructing you to knock it off. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 18:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
"Yaknow, Vashti, it would go better if you dropped the "just as bad as he is" in referring to me.". Vashti 18:27, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
I get annoyed and leave an intemperate and uncivil comment on DreamGuy's talk page. Yes, this was totally unjustifiable and against policy and I shouldn't have done it.
Vashti 12:47, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Here are some diffs from a current discussion on Talk:Otherkin where DreamGuy repeatedly assumes bad faith and accuses me of dishonesty, even after I tell him that he is mistaken.

Here is another diff from the same discussion, where DreamGuy tells me I'm "not even trying to make sense".

Here is an earlier diff from the same discussion, where DreamGuy tells me that my position is "unproven, unsupported, highly POV and I would go so far as to say highly illogical."

Here is a diff from a recent discussion on Talk:Otherkin, where DreamGuy accuses me of pretending to follow policy and "excising information out of spite".

Here is a later diff from another discussion, where Hipocrite has been working with Gavin to make excellent headway on a controversial point of the article. DreamGuy leaves his first comment for a while, inflaming the situation with Gavin, where leaving the situation to other editors would have achieved his aim.

DreamGuy's frequent assertions of POV on the part of other editors are remarkable, considering the prejudice against the subject matter at Otherkin that he has himself expressed.

Here are some of DreamGuy's recent edit comments, where he accuses editors of bias.

Here are further examples of uncivil edit comments from DreamGuy's user space:

I have no doubt that, given more time, I could come up with more evidence. Vashti 07:09, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Statement by SlimVirgin

I agree with Vashti that the problems with DreamGuy go beyond DG's feud with Gavin the Chosen. I had an encounter with DreamGuy after posting (what I saw as) a friendly warning about 3RR on his talk page on August 2, which led to him making several personal attacks against me, revert warring over them on my talk page with El C, and sending similar comments by e-mail. I'll try to find the time soon to provide diffs. Arbitration would definitely be helpful, as he seems to fall out with just about everyone he encounters, and takes a proprietorial attitude toward articles he's editing, leading to revert wars, page protection, and 3RR violation reports against others (while carefully avoiding violating 3RR himself). SlimVirgin 19:34, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Evidence needed

The rfc Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/DreamGuy-2 was closed with the following resolution on 2 August 2005

"The concensus of the outside views above, appears to be in general agreement that this RFC has some merit, but neither side is blameless and all those involved could work to improve their WikiCivility and avoid edit warring. At the moment no further censures are appropriate, but if the involved parties continue to engage in Personal Attacks additional measures may be required."

What I would like to see, in order to be convinced that this is a good faith RFAr is evidence of bad behaviour after that date. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 18:57, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I interpreted some of his comments on Talk:Otherkin as potentially uncivil, but I'll leave that up to the superior wisdom of the arbitrators. ~~ N (t/c) 21:13, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

More evidence from Gavin the Chosen

The entire affair that SlimVirgin describes above is long after the RFC closed.Gavin the Chosen 01:16, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

AS requested, here are diffs and such , descrivbing the events which occured as Slimvirgin sdescribed.

these two oseem rather rude to Slimvirgin on her user page

this one

this one

unrel;ated but...

the edit summary here is incivil, methinks

hres the offer that Slim made to me, that i accepted, and well, he refused ( basically the lasty straw before i decided to make this RFAr request

she started out politely, but

him being rude to her on his user page

she ttries being nice still...

but he wont even TRY, and this is him dealing with an ADMIN

some how shes still patient enough...

after two others try to offer advise

and instead of replying to the discussion, all he does is delete everything

SlimVirgin politely attempting to finsih the discusssion

and DreamGuy being even ruder, oblivious whats going on around him... seesm to think the admin is hararsssing him, butthats clearly not hte case Gavin the Chosen 01:45, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (3/1/0/0)

User:Willmcw and User:SlimVirgin

Involved parties

An administrator incident complaint was filed by User:Rangerdude against Willmcw for wiki-stalking and general harassment on June 15th. Willmcw filed a retaliatory RfC against Rangerdude later the same evening, alleging that Rangerdude's wiki-stalking allegation against him was a personal attack. Mediation was suggested in response to Rangerdude's complaint, both parties agreed to mediation with User:Andrevan, notice was posted to the incident board and the RfC, which was then withdrawn. Attempts to proceed with mediation from then until the present have been unproductive due to mediation backlogs and disagreement over the format for conducting mediation. In the meantime the conflict has intensified. Allegations of Willmcw's harassing behavior and wiki-stalking of Rangerdude continue to the present. User:SlimVirgin has also become involved in the controversy, supporting Willmcw. Additional incident complaints were filed yesterday by Rangerdude against Willmcw for disruption of Rangerdude's edits and against SlimVirgin for harassment, promotion of Willmcw's disruptive activities, and abuse of her administrator powers in page protecting Rangerdude's user page at a time she was a party to the disputes. Page protection was removed by SlimVirgin after Rangerdude complained, but additional disputes remain. Rangerdude subsequently posted an additional request for mediation disputing Willmcw's recent activities as harassment and requesting mediation with SlimVirgin for the same. SlimVirgin refused this mediation and Willmcw denied that Rangerdude's original complaint, located here had ever been filed against him.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
  • Post by Rangerdude informing SlimVirgin of RfAr after SlimVirgin refused mediation.
  • SlimVirgin acknowledges Rangerdude's intent to file RfAr
  • Notice posted to Willmcw of Rangerdude's intent to file RfAr
  • Willmcw acknowledges RfAr has been filed
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

If not, then explain why that would be fruitless

  • - Incident complaint by Rangerdude against Willmcw for wikistalking and harassment, June 15th.
  • - Incident complaint against Willmcw for continued harassment, August 18th
  • - Incident complaint against SlimVirgin for harassment and abuse of page protection policy, August 18th
  • - Request for Mediation by Rangerdude with SlimVirgin & Willmcw.
  • - SlimVirgin refuses mediation request.
  • - Willmcw denies original complaint was ever made against him.

Statement by Rangerdude

Rangerdude complaint against Willmcw
  • Willmcw has engaged in a pattern of harassment, disruption, and wiki-stalking towards Rangerdude from February 2005 to the present and involving over 40 different articles (evidence). This stalking has been disruptive including dismantling of Rangerdude's additions without justification, removal of source material for political and POV reasons, and general harassment aimed at pestering Rangerdude's day-to-day edits on unrelated articles. This violates Misplaced Pages's policies on civility, disruption, assuming good faith, and existing Arbcom precedent and Jimbo Wales' Recycling Troll case ruling about pestering other users with stalking .
  • Willmcw's stalking of me has included disruption of the Houston Chronicle mediation including the unilateral addition of himself to a closed mediation between Rangerdude and another editor and revert warring to retain his self-addition after it was removed.
  • Willmcw has repeatedly attempted to disrupt Rangerdude's efforts in the current guideline proposal of Misplaced Pages:Stalking. This includes multiple bad faith edits aimed at dismantling, weakening, and deleting the proposal's text , revert warring to add an unfriendly and undesired change to the proposal , , and removing material authored by Rangerdude from the proposal while it was being drafted on account of its authorship.
  • Willmcw has made WP:POINT disruptions aimed at harming the Misplaced Pages:Stalking proposal. Willmcw announced his intent to file a counter-complaint of wiki-stalking against Rangerdude for the purpose of disruption after objections were made to his dismantling edits to the proposal that are described above. He was warned of WP:POINT in response , but subsequently followed through with the complaint posted to Rangerdude's talk page.
  • Willmcw has repeatedly attempted to alter and remove a question posed to him by Rangerdude regarding his purposes and disruptive edits on the Stalking article from that article's talk page. Edits were for the purposes of removing the fact that the question was addressed at his edits specifically.
Rangerdude complaint against SlimVirgin
  • SlimVirgin assisted Willmcw in the WP:POINT disruption described above by posting a coordinated note publicizing it to the Village Pump announcement where community input was solicited for the Misplaced Pages:Stalking guideline proposal. This was done for the apparent purpose of disrupting or discrediting the Village Pump request for community input on forming the guideline, as indicated by her edit summary description and accompanying comments.
  • Moments later SlimVirgin abused her administrative powers to page protect my user page, apparently aimed at preserving and promoting Willmcw's WP:POINT complaint that she had just linked to. Misplaced Pages:Page protection prohibits administrators from protecting pages in disputes where they are involved. The protection was removed after Rangerdude complained on both the Admin noticeboard and the Page Protection board.
  • SlimVirgin has made repeated personal attacks and bad faith allegations against Rangerdude. SlimVirgin rudely accused Rangerdude of deleting another unrelated user's comments from a noticeboard when the culprit was an apparent scripting bug that has been causing problems to that particular board. SlimVirgin made a similar bad-faith accusation of deletion agaisnt Rangerdude for merging a simultaneous and duplicate request for input on the Misplaced Pages:Stalking proposal into one notice post. SlimVirgin responded with extreme belligerency and personal attacks when Rangerdude responded to this allegation by stating it was a simple attempt to merge two redundant posts. SlimVirgin also removed Rangerdude's comments explaining this merge.
  • SlimVirgin has engaged in multiple personal attacks including demeaning personal comments in response to the incidents mentioned above. Examples: "What is wrong with you" and "You're a disruptive editor" .
  • SlimVirgin has made similar personal attacks towards Rangerdude previously, has exhibited extreme personal belligerency toward Rangerdude as an editor ("What's wrong with it Rangerdude, is in part that it's you who's suggesting it. My position is that you should not be editing this page") and has made attacks against Rangerdude that could be construed as a legal threat. Note: SlimVirgin has been cautioned by the Arbcom previously for making personal attacks.

Statement by 216.112.42.61; complaint against Willmcw

May I say something here? I just noticed this complaint by chance when looking at this page. Rangerdude is not the only one that has been stalked by Willmcw. I too have been stalked by said user, though it was a while ago so I don't remember it well. I just gave up rather than reporting it, but since others are now reporting on Willmcw, I am also. If I remember correctly, Willmcw was trying to push his own biased POV in the article 'terrorism', and I reverted his edits for a while, then gave up. Willmcw then stalked my IP to the article 'ballotechnics', which I had done substantial work on, in which Willmcw falsely portrayed it by classifying it as a pseudoscience, to discredit my contributions in anger over my attempt to prevent his pushing his biased POV. Being as others have also been stalked by Willmcw, it is clear that he has got to go.

Recusals

As this RfAr involves two fairly well known administrators on Misplaced Pages, I am also requesting in compliance with Misplaced Pages:Arbitration policy on conflict of interest for any arbitration participant who has a strong historical editing relationship with or other personal allegiance to SlimVirgin, Willmcw, or both to disclose this information and, if applicable, recuse him or herself in accordance with this policy. Thank you. Rangerdude 00:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Willmcw

Rangerdude raises five points in his complaint against me. I consider two of them (#1 & #4) serious enough for the ArBCom to arbitrate. I believe that the other three complaints are minor and/or are based on mistaken interpretations of events. Here are my specific responses:

1. I previously responded to Rangerdude's "wiki-stalking" allegation here: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Rangerdude#Description. Rangerdude also made this accusation during my Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Willmcw. At that time three editors, each barely or not known to me, wrote to say that they'd checked the "wiki-stalking" evidence and found no wrongdoing.. However Rangerdude has continued to attack me with this charge for months. I request that the ArbCom decide whether my own behavior towards Rangerdude has been wikistalking harassment, or whether his repetition of the charges has been harassment. I am eager to reply in detail to any of Rangerdude's specific charges that the ArbCom wishes.

FYI, since Rangerdude began calling me a wikistalker I also have been accused of it by these editors:

2. The mediator invited me to join the Houston Chronicle mediation on June 10th and I promptly accepted.. After hearing no reply I posted a note asking if anything was happening then, having seen a notice of mediation, I just dove in on June 14th. Rangerdude made repeated efforts to remove me from the mediation. Rangerdude had previously demanded that I not be included and the mediator had agreed, but no one had informed me of this agreement. When the mediator asked me to leave the mediation I did so promptly. Prior to my participation, Rangerdude promised to limit his edits "to existing texts to a minimum during mediation excepting extraordinary unforseen circumstances". That restriction did not cover the large new, POV section and other POV material that he added to the article over the next two days. After June 15, Rangerdude never made another contribution to the mediation or to the article.

3. Rangerdude has reverted as much or more than I have. In fact, he recently amended this charge against me after having just violated the 3RR himself.

4. My charge of "wikistalking" against Rangerdude is based on his following me with the apparent intent of harassment. I will address his harassment of myself and other editors in a separate request for arbitration.

5. Rangerdude's question on Misplaced Pages talk:Stalking asked about the personal motivation of my edits and had my username in the heading, both of which I consider to be violations of talk page wikiquette. I first responded by simply removing my name from the header, but Rangerdude wouldn't settle for that. Then I tried to move it to my talk page, but that not would do either. Rangerdude reverted three times, demanding that it be on the proposal's talk page with my name in the header. I finally gave in.

Submitted by -Willmcw 08:24, August 23, 2005 (UTC)


Statement by party 2

Please limit your statement to 500 words

Statement by third party: FuelWagon

My involvment in this situation stems from an RFC that Rangerdude filed against Willmcw. I was not involved in the original dispute and saw the RFC and made a comment as an outside, uninvolved, and neutral party. Rangerdude was complaining about Cberlet and Willmcw's edits on the Ludwig Von Mises Institute (LVMI) article. I looked at the evidence given and the responses made, then looked at the article and talk page histories, and made my comment that the three people who certified the RFC (DickClarkMises, an LVMI employee, Nskinsell, an "adjunct scholar" for LVMI, and Rangerdude) were far more the root of any POV problem around the LVMI article than Cberlet and Willmcw.

Rangerdude related to this RFC as if he "owned" it. He reacted to my comment by going in and reformatting my comment and then he replied to my comment, calling it "extremely one-sided", "troubling", and "revolting". He claimed my "insinuation ... plainly violates Misplaced Pages:assume good faith" He claimed I "misrepresented" his edits. And he concluded "Given these clear cases of misrepresentation, bad faith personal insinuations, and inconsistenly-applied 'conflict of interest' allegations, I am disinclined to give further credence to the neutrality or accurracty of FuelWagon's take on this matter."

I got the feeling that Rangerdude was using the RFC as an attempt to punish editors who disagreed with him. I told Rangerdude that "an RFC is a mechanism intended to resolve a dispute. It is not a place to "build a case" against an editor to bring punitive measures againt them"

Rangerdude's reply indicated that he believes an RFC is needed prior to arbitration. "Were I to seek arbitration at this point before conducting an RfC into user conduct as this one is plainly categorized and designated, the request would likely be denied"

This only reinforced my opinion that Rangerdude was not using the RFC as a way to resolve his dispute with Cberlet/Willmcw, but as a way to build a case so he could eventually take it to arbitration and punish them. "You're attempting to convict someone of being rude when you broke nearly every traffic law in the book before coming before the judge. ... Take a break. give yourself a day to breathe."

Rangerdude's reply indicated his refusal to change course. "this RfC can and will proceed in a proper and responsible fashion be it with or without your assistance"

Rangerdude continued relating to the RFC as if he "owns" it, and opened an RFC-in-a-RFC, commenting on my comments and asked other editors to endorse his comments.

Throughout that RFC, Rangerdude related to the entire RFC page as if he owned it. He responded to many editors who commented against his position, he resisted attempts to move his replies to that talk page, and he even took it upon himself to put his own comments in the "response" section normally reserved for the individuals being accused of violating policy. He even declared the "requirement" to close the RFC was that "the new revisions (to the LVMI page) are allowed to remain"

Soon thereafter, and in a further demonstration of using RFC's for punitive means, Rangerdude filed an RFC against me for some comment I made on another RFC, accusing me of personal attacks. No one else certified it, so it was removed.

I went back to editing articles and didn't bump into Rangerdude again until I happened upon the proposed policy against "stalking". Rangerdude seemed intent on making it against policy to "stalk" another editor. The overall consensus was largely against the proposed policy, and it was eventually merged in with "harassment". I believe Rangerdude became heavily involved in the policy proposal for wikipedia:stalking with the specific intention of accusing Willmcw of "stalking" him. "stalking" is an accusation that is easy to make and is extremely difficult even for an innocent editor to disprove.

While I haven't been involved in the current dispute that Rangerdude is requestion arbitration for around Willmcw and SlimVirgin, it is my opinion that Rangerdude's edits qualify as POV-pushing and he wikilawyers against anyone who opposes his POV edits. In my opinion, this request for arbitration was his intention from the start when he filed the RFC against Willmcw and Cberlet. Rangerdude's edits were consistently POV. And he consistently reacted to anyone who opposed his POV edits by RFC'ing them, building a case against them, and accusing them of countless policy violations. His reaction to my comment read more like a prosecuting attorney than someone attempting to resolve anything: "Given these clear cases of misrepresentation, bad faith personal insinuations, and inconsistenly-applied 'conflict of interest' allegations, I am disinclined to give further credence to the neutrality or accurracty of FuelWagon's take on this matter." )

It's my opinion that Rangerdude's approach to dealing with editors who have a different point of view than him is to wikilawyer them, find a way to punish them, file RFC's and negotiate a change to the article in exchange for closing the RFC, attempt to change policy to make it easier to accuse them of policy violations, and accumulate enough empty charges to bring it to arbitration. FuelWagon 16:10, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (1/0/0/1)

User:Ultramarine

Involved parties

There was an RfC against User:Ultramarine, for incivility and POV-pushing, initiated by User:Mihnea Tudoreanu, on which User:Robert A West and I, Septentrionalis commented. He was better mannered after that.

More recently, however, Ultramarine:

  • Has been incivil
  • Has asserted very original interpretations of policy
  • Has persistently edit warred, despite extensive discussion and invitations to join a collaborative version.
  • Has attempted to abuse page protection.


Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
  • Ultramarine
  • Robert A West
  • Mihnea Tudoreanu


Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
This request concerns lengthy discussions in the talk pages above.
I requested help from Mediation, long ago, and from Mel Etitis as a third party. On mediation, I was contacted by User:Stevertigo at the end of July, who asked if I were still interested in Mediation, which I was . I gather Steve wrote to a mediator, but I have heard nothing more.
Mihnea filed Misplaced Pages:requests for comment/Ultramarine, which is still open. I think it shows a pattern of behavior.

Statement by party 1

Much of this can be found at the request for comment, Talk:Criticisms of communism,Talk:Democratic peace theory, Talk:Democratic peace theory/Archive 1:

  • His talk page comments have been peremptory orders. For example: "Add back this critque now unless you can cite sources supporting your claim, not sometime in the future." in Talk:Democratic_peace_theory#Cold_war_peace_or_the_Bloc_peace_theory This is addressed to Robert West, who has been studiously polite to Ultramarine. I asked whether this was civility and Ultramarine denied any incivility. The point at issue was whether to include eight sources or whether five sources would suffice: a demand to cite sources was hardly relevant.
    • He has also claimed (here and elsewhere) that we have refused to discuss "his" version of Criticisms of communism. Its talk page is 153K and most of it (especially this very long section) has been spent on his version and proposals. Much of the text he has proposed has been included verbatim, some with modifications and some has been rejected by consensus after discussion. The remaining discussions are ongoing.
  • Novel assertions on policy:
    • He applies an unspecified theory of consensus that amounts to asserting a liberum veto in contradiction to Misplaced Pages:Consensus. In particular, he objects that 3-1 is not consensus on an article ( and Talk:Criticisms of communism#comments)
    • An NPoV article on a theory will refute all criticisms of that theory, even those criticisms not explicitly raised in the article.
    • The NPoV version of Criticisms of communism must be critical of communism , rather than a discussion of such criticisms. (The edit summaries are of virtually identical edits)
    • Archiving a talk page of 106K (archive) is violation of policy. . He made the same claims again when the length of the new page reached 37K Talk:Democratic peace theory#Page length.
    • He has used the talk pages in question to claim other violations of policy, many of them equally frivolous. This is uncollegial. (See the several sections he has titled Violations of Misplaced Pages policy)
  • He has continually reverted Criticisms of communism to a private version, ignoring several invitations to join the version every other editor was working on. Diffs in this section of the RfC. This is his version alone; he has reverted, and been rereverted by, every other editor. page history.
  • He threatened on Talk:Criticisms of communism: "If you try to do any "merger", I will ask for protection of this page, using my version. Italics mine. A few days after, he added some of the text under dispute to Vladimir Lenin. He did three exact reverts in quick succession , although a large portion of his text was accepted; and then called for the page to be protected , as it still is. (page history)
    • And he has now done the same thing with Criticisms of communism in response to the consensus (3-1) decision to remove the two-versions tag and invite Ultramarine to actively edit the collaborative version. (WP:RfPP#Criticisms of communism) He has been expressly invited to insert the dozen or twenty sentences which he has added to his private version during August.

For my part, this is not a content dispute. This is a dispute about rudeness, and about Ultramarine ignoring and abusing policy. He asserts new versions of policy which let him do what he wants, and let him denounce and harass others for doing what he doesn't want. For example; "cite sources" as harassment. (There is no question of which website; the article cites it, and we've all quoted it).

Statement by party 2

Hmm... So, the most recent accusations are that I

  • am uncivil for asking of others to follow Misplaced Pages:Verifiability and Misplaced Pages:Cite sources when making statements and that they place sources contradicting their position in the appropriate section, in order to not misleadingly give the impression that there are no such sources.
  • have advocated that Criticisms of communism should not contain a discussion of such criticisms, when my version clearly does so and indeed has continually incorporated text and arguments from their article .
  • questioned why a talk page was completely achieved when there was ongoing discussions . And requested that the content on the same talk page should not be archieved again only a few hours later, because all the contents had been introduced in that time and were still relevant .
  • make "frivolous" and "uncollegial" accusations on the talk page. I note for example several attempts to delete and misrepresent my discussion page edits by editing them: , , ,
  • make continual reversions with little content while I in fact have made numerous improvements to the more critical version of criticisms of communism, (the diff is using their cited edit summary as the starting point) . There is no rule that says that every single edit must be a major revision, I see nothing wrong with sometimes making minor corrections of spelling mistakes.
  • abuse page protection in order to win arguments when I only ask that the Two-version template should stay so that everyone can read the facts and form their own opinion while continuing the discussion to find a good npov version. I let the record speak for itself
  • have requested that the critics should not delete well-referenced facts and arguments on Criticisms of communism and Vladimir Lenin and those in support of democracy at the Democratic peace theory. There are much greater differences between the two versions of Criticisms of communism than a "dozen or twenty sentences" , no reason why only the differences introduced in August should be allowed, and I have certainly tried to discuss the differences numerous times in August .
  • have violated policy regarding Misplaced Pages:Consensus which in fact states "In article disputes, consensus is used as if it means anything from genuine consensus to my position; it is possible to see both sides of a back-and-forth revert war claiming a consensus for their version of the article." and "Consensus should not trump NPOV (or any other official policy). A group of editors advocating a viewpoint do not, in theory, overcome the policy expressed in Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not concerning advocacy and propaganda. However, a group of editors may be able to shut out certain facts and points of view through persistence, numbers, and organization. This group of editors should not agree to an article version that violates NPOV, but on occasion will do so anyway. This is generally agreed to be a bad thing.".

Regarding who is correct regarding the facts and who violates NPOV, I refer to the factual discussions on Criticism of communism (Most recent discussions here Ultramarine 09:01, 21 August 2005 (UTC)), on Vladimir Lenin , on Democratic peace theory , and on Democracy

However, I am thankful for the effort to bring this to arbitration, which I support. The other editors mentioned in "Involved parties" above have violated Misplaced Pages: NPOV, Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, Misplaced Pages:Cite sources, Misplaced Pages: No original research, Misplaced Pages:Consensus, and Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette. More specifically, they have systematically and on a very large scale, in important Wikipdia articles, violated the above when deleting referenced facts and arguments negative for communism and when deleting referenced facts and arguments showing the beneficial effects of liberal democracy. Ultramarine 19:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement from someone with experience with defendant

I haven't had much dealings with Ultramarine within the last few months, but I can vouch that he's the most unethical, hypocritical, irrational, dishonest, and unreasonable individual I've ever encountered on Misplaced Pages. He will resort to any measure, no matter how unethical, to get his discombobulated and confused vision into an article. I had a lot of trouble with him a few months ago on the capitalism article where he engaged in every kind of dishonesty and hypocrisy one can image. He even engaged in an arbitration case against me that was entirely bogus and fraught with his lies to try to keep me from editing that article. Of course, the case against me was dismissed, and I was able to be instrumental in improving that article beyond all former recognition. For the sake of the Misplaced Pages mission, Ultramarine's behavior needs to be stopped. The guy is out of control. RJII 20:24, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement from as-yet uninvolved party

On the request of the administrator who protected Criticisms of communism, I am assisting the parties of this dispute in exploring mediation options. According to the RfC and the article discussion page, mediation of this issue was agreed to by all parties and a mediator requested, but the MedCom failed to provide a mediator. I suspect that this failure to respond has prolonged and exacerbated this dispute considerably. Normally I conduct mediations in private, but in this situation I believe it is necessary for the ArbCom to be aware at this point that the failure to mediate this dispute appears not to be the fault of the parties, and to allow sufficient time to permit the parties to investigate whether mediation of their dispute is possible. Kelly Martin 18:21, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I do not consider the dispute mediatable anymore. I have already for two and half months tried to present referenced facts and asked for the same when discussing. However, the other side does not respond to such arguments. Thus, I prefer the arbitration process to continue. Ultramarine 08:30, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (3/0/0/0)

Ed Poor

Involved Parties

Party 1 (Initiators)
Party 2
Third Parties

Confirmation of Parties' Awareness

  • Ed Poor has been made aware:
  • Tony Sidaway became aware sometime in the 1950s; he is sitting up in bed listening to Radio 4.

Previous Dispute Resolution

Although several attempts have been made to resolve this issue (, , , ), none of them have been particularly successful. Ed Poor's deletion of the RfC page against him goes towards proving that he does not wish for any discussion in the matter.

Statement by Nicholas Turnbull, Rob Church, Phroziac, and UninvitedCompany

Ed Poor is a very experienced Wikipedian, who has made an exceptional contribution to the project over the long period of time that he has been a Misplaced Pages contributor, and was consequently made an administrator (and indeed a "bureaucrat") by the community. He has been active in Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation, as well as in article editing.

Recently, he took the controversial action of speedy deleting Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion without consultation to the community or prior warning - that is, using the "delete" administrative function, not tagging it with {{delete}} for another administrator to delete the page. It is our opinion that, in his attempt to delete VfD, he nonetheless had a genuine belief that his actions were for the benefit of the community - however, it is not this particular action that we take issue with, as Misplaced Pages:Ignore all rules is an important part of our community, and such actions may be overlooked if they occur in isolation.

This page was restored by another administrator; however, the original action understandably caused consternation amongst some members of the community, and an RfC was drawn up by a number of Wikipedians to resolve the dispute. Sadly, pursuant to this event, Ed Poor has ignored the standard consensus on Misplaced Pages operations, and has not paid attention to feedback from the Misplaced Pages community as a whole about his conduct. He deleted the RfC, Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Deletion of VFD (archived version here) , on the purported grounds that it violated RfC policy; the double standard that he created by ignoring rules on one hand and enforcing the letter of them on the other is not acceptable. Another administrator restored this page; Ed deleted it for a second time. He unblocked himself () after he was blocked by a fellow administrator to provide breathing space for the dispute to settle. Ed Poor appears to have counted on his seniority and popularity to avoid discipline (, ), and thus seems to consider himself above the Misplaced Pages community in matters of action and procedure.

It is our opinion that Ed Poor has ignored the standard consensus on Misplaced Pages operations, and has not paid attention to feedback from the Misplaced Pages community as a whole about his conduct; he has consequently abused his administrator rights. This sets a poor precedent for the rest of the community, and threatens the entire spirit of collaboration and co-operation that Misplaced Pages is built on, and re-enforces the divide between administrators and users - creating an unpleasant double standard that must be avoided.

This statement is endorsed by the following:

Arbitrators please note: We have made a request to Ed Poor on his talk page for an online chat meeting to discuss our collective differences with a view to withdrawing this RfArb, depending upon agreement between the parties. --NicholasTurnbull 00:03, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

This request has been accepted and an IRC-based mediation conference has been arranged for 5:30PM EST (11:30PM BST (GMT+1)) on 5th August 2005. Parties in attendance will be:


Rob Church 07:19, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

It was decided at the conference that negotiations would continue. We will advise the ArbCom when an attempt at mediation has been completed, and whether or not further action is needed. We also agree to post the logs of these meetings. Rob Church 13:59, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

While the RFC page whose deletion was a primary reason for this request has now been restored and discussions there are continuing, no agreement has been made during the two IRC conferences that have been held. No further conferences are scheduled at this time. In the absence of any interest in scheduling further meetings, I believe that this mediation effort has run its course. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 17:47, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I would like to point out that this is the opinion of User:UninvitedCompany, and not representative of the opinion held by the meeting as a whole or by other party members. --NicholasTurnbull 19:15, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

My views with regard to this are here. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 17:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators please note: Following the successes of the IRC mediation conferences, and a number of discusions with Ed Poor, Rob Church, Phroziac and Nicholas Turnbull have agreed to withdraw their statements from this request for arbitration. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/User:NicholasTurnbull/Mediation_IRC#Motion_to_withdraw_Request_for_Arbitration_against_Ed_Poor for full details. Rob Church 16:17, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Further statement by UninvitedCompany

Ed Poor is a long-time colleague of mine here at Misplaced Pages and I am saddened both by the overall course of events and by the fact that I feel compelled to participate in this unfortunate case. I believe that this case has importance to the community far beyond Ed's own actions. It is a core principle of Misplaced Pages that the community is the ultimate authority. I find that Kim and Ed's actions in trying to suppress discussion by deleting the RFC are an effort to whitewash this whole event and the community's reaction to it. It is an attempt to undermine the community, and a clear effort to pull rank and give the community a PowerAnswer rather than to seek reconciliation through discussion, compromise, and consensus. It is, in a very real way, the antithesis of wiki.

While I am hardly one of the first Wikipedians, I have been told that I have somehow become part of the fabric of the place; I am sometimes called an old-timer. I am participating in this case to make a clear statement that even though I may be an old-timer, and part of the same "cabal" as Ed and the other senior admins and bureaucrats, that in actual fact There Is No Cabal -- nor should there be. I'm not going to stand by and let this case be characterized as an old hands vs. new hands matter. It's not. This case is about the fact that everyone around here still must answer to the community, no matter how much they've contributed, no matter how long they've been here, no matter what level of access they have earned, and no matter who their friends are.

Finally, I point out that troublesome behavior from Ed is not new. The matter of William Connolley's near-promotion to adminship and Ed's temporary de-sysopping of several admins earlier this year are similar examples. There are others. The Misplaced Pages community has forgiven (and indeed forgotten) a great deal already, and I believe that a response of "aw, shucks, I'm sorry and I promise not to do it again" falls well short of the mark.


The Uninvited Co., Inc. 18:53, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Kim Bruning

The RfC in question was indeed not brought compliant to policy, Ed Poor's premature deletion of the page was actually due to an incorrect time conversion between EST and UTC. (That, and he should have let a neutral party do it, of course :-) ) This was corrected. After being quite thoroughly notified, the bringers of the RfC continued to fail to certify it, and the RfC was deleted at the due time.

I'd love to see IAR tested sometime, but I don't think this will be the case to do it :-) Kim Bruning 02:52, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Notes:

  1. Though the RFC has been terminated, several users have moved it out of RFC space to circumvent RFC policy: . Up to arbcom to decide if that is a valid application of WP:IAR
  2. Ed Poor created Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_deletion very early on to allow people to comment on his actions.
  3. I was the blocking administrator, and actually talked with Ed on the phone! I won't be pleased if anyone holds it against him that he unblocked himself after that!

Statement by Ed Poor

Please limit your statement to 500 words.

Okay, I don't care whether this request is "proper" or not. People want a reckoning, and that they shall have.

I was wrong to delete vfd. As a professional database programmer, I should have realized that it would place a great strain on the database, due to its lengthy history being moved into the "deleted page" table. In other words, I should have anticipated the 5-minute read-only block I effectively put on this wiki. So I plead guilty to negligence.

Secondly, I was wrong to assume that my intuitive sense of consensus - (which was actually lacking rather than present) combined with a light-hearted attitude of Ignore All Rules and Be Bold - would be sufficient justification for blasting away at a problematic page (and system). I should have brought up the matter for discussion by creating a poll (as Angela correctly pointed out) or gone through similar channels. Misplaced Pages has become too big for anyone, however "beloved" (as I immodestly regard myself) or dedicated, to make such a major change as I tried to do.

I promise not to do this again - or anything like it. Specifically, I will not delete an important page or one with a lengthy edit history again unless there is clear community consensus for this. If I cannot determine consensus on my own, I will ask another admin for help. Someone like Uninvited Company would be my first choice.

If my promise is not enough, well you can always put me on "no delete" parole or even de-sysop me. I don't care: if becoming an Admin is not supposed to be a big deal, than un-becoming a one should be no big deal either. Uncle Ed 12:42, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

About the RFC

I mistook the "end date" of the RFC by 4 hours. I thought it was 1:08 P.M. my time, but it was actually 5:08 P.M. my time. I am 4 hours behind Greenwich UTC. I figured that, with only one person certifying, that the RFC could be deleted exactly at the 48-hour mark but I made two errors: (1) I miscomputed the expiration time - which, by the way, I had calculated myself, since the RFC opener had neglected to put it in. (2) I missed the unwritten rule that one does not delete an RFC concerning oneself.

I guess this is why Kim Bruning kept blocking my account and telling me not to shoot myself in the foot (or the leg) - apparently she was planning to delete the RFC herself at the appointed (and correctly calculated) hour. I had no idea of this.

As for unblocking myself, what can I say? Kim blocked me to further some plan of hers which she declined to share with me. I'm not going to arbitration with her on this, as she has already apologized to me. I figured that if an Admin (a) blocked me with no justification and (b) apologized for this, there was no need to embarass her by demanding she unblock me when (as an admin in good standing) I could simply remove the block myself. (She asked me on the phone, "Do you want me to unblock you?" I said that it didn't matter and kind of thought it comical, getting an expensive international phone call from an admin wanting to know if she should unblock me! :-) Uncle Ed 02:08, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

The point that you continue to miss, Ed, is that the RFC shouldn't have been deleted in the first place. Not at the end of howevermany hours, not by you, and not by anyone else. There was ongoing discussion, and whether or not the RFC rules against unsupported listings were complied with or not (and I believe they were, for reasons I am happy to elaborate upon if requested), there was no reason to delete an RFC that was serving as the focus of community discussion. The Vfu Discussion shows that the community was overwhelmingly opposed to deletion, with no actual votes supporting the deletion of the RFC (though Kim voted neutral and there was one vote that, though an "undelete," appeared to be made in sarcastic jest). It is your ongoing, unrepentant insistence that deleting a community discussion about a mistake you made is OK (or, equivalently, would have been OK after four more hours), that led me to support this case in the first place. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 02:28, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
It took me a while to see your point, but I now agree. The request for comment was intended to generate comments and was successfully doing so.
"...the double standard that he created by ignoring rules on one hand and enforcing the letter of them on the other is not acceptable." Wow, I had no idea. I'm glad I re-read this RFA carefully, because I completely missed that point the first few times. Maybe I should step down (or be removed) from adminship until I learn to stop doing this AntiPattern. Uncle Ed 15:19, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
Kim Bruning's a guy. It's amusing that you did not notice that, after talking to him on the phone though. :D --Phroziac (talk) 17:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree that I should not have deleted the RFC. I am sorry that I deleted it, and sorry that I let Kim "close" it. I see now that the RFC page was serving a higher purpose that I should not have interfered with; or ignored; or allowed to be curtailed. Therefore I have put it back, even if this is 'too little, too late' (see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Deletion of VFD). Uncle Ed 15:53, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Third Party Benjamin Gatti

Sanctioning Ed Poor in this case could have a chilling effect on contributers being bold in addressing problems. The Arbitration commitee should investigate the alledged harm present in the current deletion process and upon a finding of real harm, ought to propose a remedy therefore and thank Uncle Ed for raising the alarm. The technical issues related to deleting a page are matters beyond the jurisdiction of the arbcomm and ought to be rectified rather than blamed on the user. Misplaced Pages:Wikiblower protection has been proposed and should be adopted as the accepted conclusions of the committee. The Policy is fair to all users and turns on the facts rather than on the personalities involved. Ed Poor should not be sanctioned whether he agrees to it or not because of the effect on the community at large - Killing the messenger is never the solution. Benjamin Gatti 19:10, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Here here. --67.182.157.6 23:47, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Curious 3rd Party (~~~~ ( ! | ? | * ))

I think Ed Poor was deliberately demonstrating that the current system allows total abuse a.k.a. a cabal, in deleting VFD and then deleting any attempts to question this. Warnings from history are very important. ~~~~ ( ! | ? | * ) 21:23, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by 3rd party: Nickptar

I don't see the need to prosecute Ed for this single act. While it was very poorly thought out, Ed has admitted it, has promised not to do it again, and has shown no pattern of disruption. I do think he should voluntarily give up adminship until this cools down, then renominate himself. If he did choose to do so, I would fully support his readminning. ~~ N (t/c) 21:58, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

Oh for heaven's sake, who brought this poxy, pointless, idiotic case? Grow up! --Tony Sidaway 08:21, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Some comments on this statement have been moved to the appropriate place

Statement by Xiong

I don't doubt that there is an involved legal term, in bad Latin, that covers this case exactly. The facts of the matter are unimportant; the ostensible subject of this RfArb is petty, a constellation of secondary actions. The real subject is Ed's primary action: deleting VfD. That was a noble and bold act and has garnered much praise -- perhaps the largest number of barnstars awarded for any single click of the mouse. Ed has annoyed many, but these strong expressions of support -- as well as the following explosion of public debate on this contentious issue -- make it impossible to attack him directly.

Regardless of the technical merits of this case, any decision made here will be taken as condemnation or endorsement of Ed's primary action. I suggest that it is both wrong and unwise for ArbCom to commit to either. — Xiong熊talk* 20:10, 2005 August 7 (UTC)

Statement by a 4th party (Lubaf)

I'm not at all interested in this case (thus my 4th party status), but I'd suggest holding this case until Stevertigo's behavior on Vietnam war (see above) is resolved, as it's a much clearer case, and therefore, should give better contrast as to whether Ed's actions were innappropriate or not. Thanks,
Luc "Somethingorother" French 12:53, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Response by Stevertigo

I dont think its in the interest of fairness to pick and choose the order of cases to suit one particular view. Ed's action of deletion was done in the spirit of inclusionism (ironically) - to counter what was a greater percieved danger to wikipedia through deletionism. Certainly the act itself was somewhat unilateral, but then, much of Misplaced Pages's early success to date had been on rather unilteralist action, by editors well known for their dedication to Wikipedias core principle of NPOV.

As any beaurocracy grows, so to do contradictions develop between concepts of propriety and concepts of principle. War criminals can be found "innocent," while someone who steals pennies from a federally protected bank has "violated the law," and gets a life sentence. In this case, the act of unilaterally deleting a process page can be said to be inexcusable, yet, judging by the overwhelmingly positive responses of people on the mailing list, can also be said to have been in the spirit of consensus. Does foundational principle yield to mere matters of process? IAC, I am not alone in the perception that some beaurocratic shakeup and reform may be necessary, and that beaurocracy itself has made such BOLD changes unwieldy. In a sense this is a good thing, as it established continuity. But VFD in particular, in spite of the fact that its a necessary function, has had a long history of being misused and abused --providing only black and white solutions for greyscale issues and problems. Is the Arbcom interested only in enforcing existing rules, or making recommendations regarding changes of process? -St|eve 20:32, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by 3rd Party Observer

To quote from Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/Deletion_of_VFD :

If anyone is due an apology, it is I. Uncle Ed 10:47, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

If no action is taken, it will pave the way for further abuses of admin privileges. I would recommend de-sysopping, in line with User:Tim Starling and a majority of the community. Erwin Walsh 11:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by 3rd Party Mr. Jones

As an admin, one has responsibility. If you make a mistake of this nature, you should face the consequences. Ed should emphatically not be an exception; justice must be seen to be done. I suggest a three-month ban on adminship with re-application by the normal route.

The odd way in which Ed treated the RfC is disturbing, and suggests a contempt for process, though it could be explained in other ways. His other actions with respect to pushing through admins are also worrying. I think Ed should be considered on his "last strike", and should be stripped of sysop and bureacrat powers, with other measures to be considered, in case of further inappropriate actions. He would be able to continue to contribute to wikipedia, but would have to request administrative actions by the normal routes, having shown he could not be trusted with the responsibility. Mr. Jones 13:30, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by 3rd party Curps

The trouble with Ed is that sometimes he mistakes himself for Jimbo Wales. -- Curps 19:16, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by 3rd party Paul August

I think this case should be accepted. Not because I think Ed should be punished, but so that the perception will not be that someone like Ed can get away with things that others couldn't. Such a perception will foster the notion that Misplaced Pages is run by the "Cabal", or an "old boy's network" or an insider's "elite", or whatever you choose to call it. Such an idea is pernicious, and detrimental to Misplaced Pages. Such a perception has already helped to convince one of the best editors I know Filiocht, to leave the project, quoting from his user talk page:

Ed's vandalism of the project (or "mistake", if you prefer) should be dealt with in the same way that it would be if anyone else had done the things he did. The fact that it won't be confirms what I have long suspected, which is that there is, in fact, a kind of loose-knit, de facto cabal at work here.

Paul August ☎ 21:26, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' Opinions on Hearing this Matter (4/3/0/2)

  • Accept Fred Bauder 19:02, August 4, 2005 (UTC) Vote to accept affirmed Fred Bauder 21:22, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
  • Reject Not sure yet - Ed not only says above "I was wrong," but explains how he was wrong. I'm not sure what penalty would make the encyclopedia better David Gerard 21:50, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
    Changed to 'not sure yet' after discussion with some of those bringing the RFAr. I think Kim's explanation helps explain the issues at hand (the RFC and the self-unblock), but I'd like to hear Ed's own words on the subjects. I'll consider further before a firm 'accept' or 'reject' - David Gerard 22:35, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Ed doesn't seem to have commented on the real issue here (as set out above). That is, the deletion of an RfC about himself and the unblocking of himself - I'd like to hear more on these before voting -- sannse (talk) 22:15, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
    Accept. Given Ed's response on my talk page , there seems a lack of agreement over these actions that I think needs looking at -- sannse (talk) 20:48, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Waiting for further input from the parties as to how discussions are progressing, but, I must say, I fail to see how this really helps build the encyclopædia. James F. (talk) 17:04, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
    Reject. I feel that the discussions have been and are being fruitful. James F. (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Accept, to consider the larger issues surrounding Ed's misuse of his admin/bureacrat/developer privileges. I didn't want to accept this, but it was his veto comment that decided it for me. →Raul654 17:46, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm going to stay my above comment (e.g, for the time being it counts as an abstain). Ed tells us that he's nearing a breakthrough in his discussions with the people who brought this case, and in the light of that, I think we should wait before we consider this
      • After private discussion with both Ed and UC, I've decided to reject this without prejudice (the rest of the complainants having dropped the request). There is merit to this complaint and I was prepared to hear it out. However, Ed has promised to cease the offending behavior, and I trust him to abide by his word. If he does continue the misbehavior, I'll be willing to entertain this request again. →Raul654 21:14, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
  • Accept. Ed's recent uses of his admin/bureaucrat privileges are of concern. Jayjg 20:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC) Confirm acceptance. Jayjg 05:35, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Hmm. I'm really not sure. I'm going to abstain for now. Abuse of admin powers is a serious thing, but I'm going to take Ed's promise as the end of the matter. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 21:34, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Reject: punishing Ed will not make Misplaced Pages a better place ➥the Epopt 22:11, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Accept. Neutrality 20:39, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Keetoowah

Involved parties

Keetoowah is aggressively incivil towards other users including, but not limited to, the making of personal attacks.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Notification at User talk:Keetoowah of this entry.

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Keetoowah raised 15 February 2005 asserted that Keetoowah "makes violent personal attacks on other users." It received four direct endorsements in addition to the two editors certifying the dispute. Four other editors endorsed a harsher summary describing Keetoowah as "an obnoxious user". Keetoowah's response opened "Forget it. This is a Star Chamber. I'm not even going to participate. Waste of time." TheoClarke did not participate in this RFC.

Statement by party 1

TheoClarke believed Keetoowah to be pushing a POV at Ward Churchill and challenged this at Talk:Ward Churchill. Keetoowah responded with aggressive incivility. TheoClarke suggested that this was inappropriate. Keetoowah responded with more aggressive incivility including a suggestion that any UK national is unqualified to contribute to the Ward Churchill article. Keetoowah has displayed similar behaviour patterns towards other editors and shows no sign of ameliorating such behaviour. Given that these diffs may not be in full context, I feel that the best evidence would be a reading of Talk:Ward Churchill and its archives.

Addendum at 23:31, August 12, 2005 (UTC): Contrary to Raul654's perception that this is "a one time incident", it is part of a pattern of increasing aggression against more than six editors since Keetoowah's sixth edit in which he makes an argumentative response to a covert attack on Condoleezza Rice. Since this mild incivility, Keetoowah became increasingly aggressive at Talk:Condoleezza Rice and has also attacked Slimvirgin, Cberlet, Viajero, Fred Bauder, and zen master at Talk:Ward Churchill. The details of all these attacks were omitted from the first draft of this statement for brevity. For the avoidance of doubt: The February RFC was about incidents before those that prompted this RFA.

Addendum at 17:26, August 18, 2005 (UTC): The incivility is now spreading to Talk:Guantanamo Bay where Keetoowah has asserted that other editors do not know what they are talking about (this summary may not be fair since it is out of context).

Statement by party 2

Please limit your statement to 500 words


Statement by User:Project2501a (interested third party)

You might also want to check out Talk: Condoleezza Rice concerning User:Keetoowah's behaviour. Project2501a 02:43, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by User:Kelly Martin (vaguely interested third party)

User:Keetoowah is an abrasive editor who is very obviously pushing a point of view and whose conduct frequently steps well over the accepted boundaries of civility. However, I haven't seen him actually edit war; in my experience he respects consensus when actually editing articles, responding instead to edits he disapproves of by unleashing increasingly nasty comments on talk pages. While I don't encourage such an abrasive discussion style, it sure beats the hell out of edit warring. Any remedy for his conduct should respect the fact that his conduct with respect to articles (as opposed to talk pages) does not appear to need correction. I feel that the inclusion of his point of view benefits Misplaced Pages, and would be disappointed to see him leave.

I believe the histories of Ward Churchill and Talk:Ward Churchill adequately demonstrate this editing pattern. I am less familiar with his history on other articles, but I think this one is especially informative because he has such a strong point of view on Churchill and yet manages to avoid letting it totally get out of hand in the article. Kelly Martin 21:23, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Statement by User:Viajero (interested third party)

As was documented in the RfC in February and can be amply seen on the Talk page archives of Ward Churchill, Keetoowah has a habit of lashing out at other editors with whom he disagrees with exceptional anger and hostility. His lack of collegial spirit and the disrespect he shows towards others is incompatible with the nature of this collaborative undertaking. In particular, he urgently needs to take a timeout from the Ward Churchill article. -- Viajero | Talk 21:20, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Statement by User:PHenry (interested third party)

Keetoowah has now threatened legal action against User:Zoe, in violation of the No legal threats rule. To make matters worse, Keetoowah's accusation against her is demonstrably false--Zoe had merely reformatted a comment that had been left by another user, 66.117.136.44. Along with his legal threat, Keetoowah made a series of vile and intimidating personal slurs against the innocent Zoe, and submitted a highly irregular VfD on the RfC that had been opened about him in February of this year.

Keetoowah's attacks on other users have clearly intensified in even the short amount of time since this RfA was filed. I believe the Arbitration Committee should agree to accept this case. --PHenry 18:40, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Keetoowah has now attempted to eradicate a Keep vote on the VfD page he started. --PHenry 21:53, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (2/2/1/0)

Requests for Clarification

If you need to clarify the precise meaning of a previous decision of the Arbitration Committee, your request should go here.

Everyking

I need to know about when my most recent Arb sentence expires, the one that regulates my expression of views. Everyking 04:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

  • There wasn't a time limit on it. Basically, if you decide it no longer applies, the case would start up again, I think - David Gerard 22:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • If there's no time limit then I don't want any part of it. Why would I agree to anything that's infinite? My understanding was that it's a year. Everyking 03:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
  • This was a voluntary agreement was it not? It lasts until you no longer agree to it. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 22:44, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Precisely. It's making a case go away by agreeing to play nice, which is the AC's very favourite remedy ever when it works. If you're finding it untenable, the first thing to do is to see what else you can do to resolve the problem short of an AC case. You don't have to like Snowspinner, but you're both admins, you should be able to work together - David Gerard 22:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I concur with both David and Theresa. EK agreed to stop pestering Snowspinner, and Snowspinner dropped his harassment complaint. If EK wants to go back on his word, then I see no reason why Snowspinner's complaint should not go forward. →Raul654 21:58, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Another EK-related request for clarification: Are the remedies from Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Everyking still applicable? One of the remedies in that case prevented EK from reverting Ashlee Simpson related articles. Everyking claims that this remedy no longer applies, because "old cases are supplanted by new cases". To his credit, he hasn't actually reverted the article yet, and is participating in discussion. But he did say that he was going to revert Ashlee Simpson in the future. Rhobite 20:48, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • I would like to note that I agree with David and Theresa on both points; the temporary suspension of EK3 is indefinite unless EK wants it restarted, and it in no way removed the former restrictions. EK is welcome to request that the suspension be lifted, if he so wishes. James F. (talk) 17:49, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
    • While I have no particular desire to go against the actual terms of the deal, I do object to being straightjacketed indefinitely, so in that case I reject the deal in principle. Everyking 18:14, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Our decision in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Everyking said In six months, if Everyking can demonstrate good behavior on Ashlee Simpson related articles, he may apply to the arbitration committee to have the revert parole(s) lifted. - Everyking successfully applied to have them removed. Thus, I feel that Everyking is under no restrictions with regard to editing Ashley Simpson related articles, outside of his mentorship. →Raul654 21:58, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Archive

Category: