Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern European disputes/Evidence

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Create your own section to provide evidence in, and do not edit anyone else's section. Keep your evidence to a maximum of 1000 words and 100 diffs. Evidence longer than this will be refactored or removed entirely.

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Create your own section and do not edit in anybody else's section. Please limit your main evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs and keep responses to other evidence as short as possible. A short, concise presentation will be more effective; posting evidence longer than 1000 words will not help you make your point. Over-long evidence that is not exceptionally easy to understand (like tables) will be trimmed to size or, in extreme cases, simply removed by the Clerks without warning - this could result in your important points being lost, so don't let it happen. Stay focused on the issues raised in the initial statements and on diffs which illustrate relevant behavior.

It is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff in question, or to a short page section; links to the page itself are insufficient. Never link to a page history, an editor's contributions, or a log for all actions of an editor (as those will have changed by the time people click on your links), although a link to a log for a specific article or a specific block log can be useful. Please make sure any page section links are permanent. See simple diff and link guide.

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see the talk page. If you think another editor's evidence is a misrepresentation of the facts, cite the evidence and explain how it is incorrect within your own section. Please do not try to re-factor the page or remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, leave it for the Arbitrators or Clerks to move.

Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as Arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies, Arbitrators vote at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators (and clerks, when clarification on votes is needed) may edit the proposed decision page.

Evidence presented by Piotrus

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.

Evidence presented by Moreschi

{Write your assertion here}

Evidence presented by Sciurinæ

Molobo and Koretek

Only a day after Deacon of Pndapetzim initiated the request for arbitration, a brand-new account by the name of Koretek (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) was created, which claimed to be a "not established user" and only tried to dismiss Deacon's request for arbitration on spurious evidence as an "attack by polonophobic". One of the shallow points was the emphasis on the fact that Deacon had himself renamed and was formerly known as Calgacus. I had seen something like that before - Molobo (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) asked Deacon in March this year whether that was him and Deacon responded unambiguously affirmatively. After that, however, Molobo still wanted to point out to Piotrus and others that Deacon was no other than Calgacus: in a content dispute with Deacon as part of his comment against Deacon's point of view.

Molobo has reason to defend Piotrus, who in turns takes pains to defend Molobo against indef-blocks ( ). In addition, Molobo didn't appear to like Deacon particularly ( ). And moreover, Molobo had a history of attacking people as just being against Poles ( ). All of Koretek's supposed evidence consists of shameful (mis)interpretations that go along the lines of assuming that if you argue against one or a few Polish users or one historian, you must be doing this only because you hate Poles in general. You'll also find the same fallacy in this comment. Molobo and Koretek also have the same opinions - about a Polish name for the monarch: , about the correctness of criticism against the historian: , about the "polonophobic" element in Misplaced Pages () and the "antipolish" sentiment in general ( ), about a "Polish cabal": ("a very negative prejudice", "contrary to AGF", "attacking Polish editors as whole" ).

Molobo was also involved on all the relevant talk pages where the links point to and/or in the relevant disputes. In fact, he already immediately reported Deacon for the vulgar slip. The last accusation is no less ridiculous, the accusation of renaming himself in a cloak-and-dagger style to survive an Rfa. In reality, Deacon had himself renamed (linking his old talk page to the new user) many months after the unpleasant events at Talk:Jogaila. Again many more months later, two users nominated him at Rfa. He immediately mentioned that his former username was Calgacus and even that he had had unpleasant experiences at Talk:Jogaila (he mentioned the Jogaila affair even twice, like it was important) - and became an admin. The way Koretek portrayed it was a complete reversal of the truth, and Piotrus was only all too happy to buy into this, incorporating this shameless diff as the first in his essay.

I once noticed Molobo had been using a mass of sockpuppets in the last few months of his one-year block. The problem was that, then, he hadn't been editing with the main account since November 2006 () and as the IP was new and from the neighbouring city, old IP evidence was no use, going without IP evidence would possibly just be attacked by blank denial (eg), but I was probably foolish to simply leave the matter at that because by the time he had finally betrayed that his new IP was in line with the sock chain, a few months had already passed and therefore nothing could be done about that. A few days later Molobo brushed it under the carpet ( ) - and gone it was. Please consider using CU on Koretek in connection with Molobo. Sciurinæ (talk) 23:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

{Write your assertion here}

Evidence presented by User:greg park avenue

Support User:Piotrus against the above mentioned adversary(ies). The evidence lies clear on the hand if I may use a German idiom, right here. I don't bother with our Lithuanian friends - they were pals or allies of us polacks since centuries - we always get along and will find common ground, mind just Boody and his obvious supporters/sockpuppets who seem to play Jew but they don't sound like that. My impression is they try to impersonate the negative stereotype of Jewish people. That must end once and for all, at least here on Misplaced Pages. I am for one state Israel/Palestine, see my user page, not very popular idea yet - there is no common ground there - both sides try to undermine each other using all possible ways available including inciting hate against each other. The ones most active in English Misplaced Pages edit warriors use this tool to antagonize Polish, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Germans, Jews etc against each other. They the provocateurs in my experience descend from the former priviledged special forces class known in Poland as SB (2 million), in USSR as KGB (??? zillion), stripped from the prominence after the fall of the Soviet Union and holding the grudge for that, still they have access to significant funds in form of fat social security checks and unlimited time to spend behind their own PC bitching about almost anything and anybody while their younger fellow citizens must struggle to survive, forget about owning a PC. Polish fora say Onet.pl are full of them. Hundreds of bullshit comments delivered every minute even in the middle of the night. Didn't look at that chickenshit lately, don't have to, next time I access English Misplaced Pages, I'm afraid it'll be the same or very close to that until someone does something about it. My best advice is to follow Piotrus comment - strictly enforce WP:CIVIL or give up this project. greg park avenue (talk) 03:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

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Evidence presented by User:Biophys

Hunt for Piotrus causes more disruption than good

Piotrus and Irpen were often painted as two equally “nationalistic” users. This is not so. All cases I know about followed the following scenario: (1) Piotrus makes a significant contribution or creates a new article; (2) Irpen comes to re-edit the article and to challenge Piotrus with various issues that are partly legitimate, but in fact lead to a huge disruption of productive work by Piotrus and others. Some of Irpen's comments and minor corrections are usually good, but the disruption cased by a prolonged discussion and edit warring usually outweights the benefits if any. I can provide only a few examples, since my interaction with the both users was very limited.

Example 1. Defense of Brest Fortress. This defense was an icon of the Soviet war history, something everyone in the Soviet Union was proud of. But it was “Polish nationalist” Piotrus who created and greatly expanded this article about Russian heroes starting from the old version of Brest fortress. Now, it is the turn of Irpen. After making several minor changes in the article, he began an exhausting discussion with Piotrus. One of main contention points is the fate of main celebrity, Russian hero Piotr Gavrilov who was later imprisoned to Gulag.

In the beginning of this discussion Irpen admits that Gavrilov was sent to Gulag. However later Irpen changes his position in favor of an old Soviet propaganda version (that Gavriolov was never imprisoned) . Unfortunately, Piotrus does not know Russian and can only use Western sources. He asks me for translation. After being confronted with Russian sources about the imprisonment of Gavrilov , Irpen still disputed the sources and achieved the elimination of Gavrilov’s imprisonment from the “Fortress” article.

Note that User:Deacon of Pndapetzim (who brought this case) was also engaged in this discussion making “funny” comments like that. I have no idea what “porno” he is talking about. Finally, it was “Polish nationalist” Piotrus who created another article about Russian hero Piotr Gavrilov.

Example 2. Przyszowice massacre. This article is about an important but a local event. Therefore, it was described mostly in the Polish press. The sources obviously satisfy WP:Verifiability. An extremely long, exhaustive, and completely unfounded discussion has been initiated by a banned user Vlad fedorov and by Irpen . It also cased an extensive edit warring between Vlad fedorov and several other users. Such a waste of time!

I believe that Irpen promotes the Soviet version of history

Some believe that Irpen and Piotrus are enormously productive editors. Yes, I have seen a number of good or fair articles created or contributed to by Piotrus. However I did not see much created by Irpen, perhaps because I did not look at the ancient history. Yes, Irpen has ~11,000 of main space edits, just like me and many others. The remainder (two thirds) of his edits can be found at numerous talk pages. His “main” article is Holodomor (~350 main space edits). This article is about the Ukrainian famine, and I think it is terrible. First of all, this article has no narrative section. It does not explain at all what had happen, but discusses such contentious questions as “who was guilty?” or “was it genocide or not?” Most important, this article is based on a lot of Russian and Ukrainian sources by authors no one knows about. Why? I have tried to bring a book specifically about these events written by the best Westen scholar on the subject, Robert Conquest (he wrote ~20 books on Russian history). But the source was sidelined by Irpen and his team on the totally false pretense of the source being outdated (please look at edit summaries in the diffs): . I spent some time at the article talk page, but finally gave up and decided never edit this article again. I am not as persistent as Piotrus.

Now let me cite an essay about typical behavior of “nationalistic editors”:

"The absolute rejection of all scholarship not coming from authors of the same nationality that our nationalist is whitewashing." and
"Removing references to peer-reviewed books by reputable academics in favor of random blogcrap off the internet"..

Although the latter can be said about the removal of a book by Robert Conquest, I do not think Irpen is a “nationalistic” user. No, there is nothing “nationalistic” in promoting the Soviet version of history.

P.S. I could also comment about the alleged “tag teams” but decided to stay closer to the subject at the moment.Biophys (talk) 20:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Evidence presented by {your user name}

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