Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by GraemeL (talk | contribs) at 23:18, 10 October 2005 (User talk:Eleemosynary IS a SOCKPUPPET moved to User talk:Eleemosynary). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Cindy Sheehan

Nice edits on Cindy Sheehan article. Badagnani 08:43, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Cindy Sheehan Technical Issue

Sorry for the comp problems on my end, I was just adding more anti-war mom comments, not vandalizing your work, which has been great. Just wanted to check in with that to avoid any confusion. Karmafist 23:27, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Cindy Sheehan

Don't revert any more of 4.228.90.146 edits to the summary; he'll be blocked shortly for 3RR violation and, in several hours, your can restore the summary. (That way you'll avoid 3RR yourself) Soltak 00:31, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Congrats

You definately deserve it, that article is great, and you've put in alot of work into it. For more info on Barnstars, the awards given to Wikipedians who do great things, check out WP:STAR.

Also, your user page is your own, unless you want it there, Keetoowah's comment can be removed immediately. His behavior has been atrocious, he currently has a request for comment out on him, i'll report his rude behavior to you there and to Zoe, an admin who's been checking on him. Karmafist 21:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

No Problem

No problem, just one more thing, usually it's customary to add 4 tildes like this,~~~~ at the end of a comment, so people know who wrote it without having to go to the history. Somebody should have said this when you first started, but the Welcoming Committee isn't able to get everybody. Karmafist 22:10, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Cindy Sheehan

Eleemosynary, Thanks for catching that. The jamboree reference could also have been labeled as POV since it's tangential to the Sheehan story. It's nice that Misplaced Pages is continually reviewed by others as its being created. Thanks again for helping. Kgrr 16:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

help

see the new arrival at Hurricane Katrina...

Vandal on the Air America Radio page

Hi there... I noticed that you were involved in many of the edits and discussions on the Air America Radio page and wondered if you might be able to help me deal with a vandal who is pushing a political POV agenda on that page. The vandal's name is Keetowah. I noticed from the AAR discussion page that previous contributors including yourself had significant trouble with this vandal. Any advice or assistance you may be able to provide would be much appreciated. --Pmagnay 15:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/BigDaddy777

Since you have begun interacting with Bigdaddy again , and endorsed the original RfC , I thought you might be interested to know that since the dispute resolution process has stalled due to BigDaddy's refusal to respond to this RfC, some are now questioning whether an RfAr should be filed. Your comments on this new issue would be appreciated. 69.121.133.154 20:23, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Rove talk post

Spot on. As long as he doesn't answer, I only see white space. Guettarda 01:24, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I understand that you are frustrated with BD, so am I. But, it might be prudent to disengage from unnecessary talk with him right now. First, he is probably understandably upset at the moment, given the RFAr against him. Second, it might cloud the issues from the arbitrators' point of view. They haven't been following everything all along, and it's hard to get a good perspective on it in a short time. So, you don't want to distract their focus from the evidence onto any back and forth about the RFAr itself. Just my two cents. Regards, Derex 05:37, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

"Little Baby's" paranoiac whining... deleted!

Yeah, you're right Derex. He's completely upset. He's even trolling my Talk Page for mention of him. A lonely, angry troll, that Little Baby! Eleemosynary 02:08, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to second what Derex said. No need to muddy the issues. Guettarda 02:14, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree as well. Best to try to take the high road. · Katefan0 03:48, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Nonsensical blather from humiliated vandal, aka Big Daddy, (whose sockpuppetry has been discovered)... deleted! Eleemosynary 13:29, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

boy it's tough not to engage that guy. i found myself doing it all morning, breaking my own advice. something about his attitude just gets me in a fighting mood. Derex 05:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

your NOW SUPPORTED accusations

your accusations of sockpuppetry and constant reverts of every one of my edits show a complete lack of respect for the validity of my contributions as well as my attempts to reach consensus, often at odds with BigDaddy I might add. please provide either support for your claims or an apology. Consider this your final warning before I seek escalation of this matter. 67.124.200.240 12:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Seek all the escalation you want, BD. I've provided supporting evidence (more of which is to come) on the Ann Coulter Talk Page. I will present my evidence of your sockpuppet use in arbitration and let the arbitrators decide. Cheers. Eleemosynary 13:15, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

You got some nerve accusing me of that garbage. You want to know my IP address? JUST ASK NEXT TIME.Gator1 14:22, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Always a good method of researching possible sockpuppetry... just ask! Eleemosynary 16:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Now that you know I'm not a sockpuppet, I hope you can apologize. If I falsely accused someone I would certainly eat some crow and do that for them. That was a serious and ugly accusation that hurts a person;s reputation. When made incorrectly, you owe that person an apology.Gator1 15:25, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I only inquired it of a third party researcher, and never "accused" you of something. Thus, no apologies are necessary. Cheers. (By the way, I do not yet "know" you are not a sockpuppet, but I'd be grateful if you could point me toward that info. Thanks.) Eleemosynary 16:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Apology accepted.Gator1 16:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

LOL! I didn't apologize. But of course, you know that. Speaking of sockpuppets, there have been some very juicy revelations of late, wouldn't you say? But what I don't understand is... why did you blank them from your Talk page. Oh, well... thank goodness for the history pages! Eleemosynary 16:31, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

worrying about sockpuppetry is really kind of pointless, unless it's an issue of counting votes. what does it matter who said what; it's what's said that matters. but anyway, i highly doubt that gator is a sockpuppet. you can usually tell by the little things like punctuation and favorite words and turns of phrase and such as that. Derex 16:41, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Usually, but not always. And it's completely possible that's he's not, but there's no harm in checking. By the way, there was an administrative IP check on BD777 recently that seems to have unearthed a whole bunch of sockpuppets he was using... including ones containing hilarious back and forth protestations that he was not a sockpuppet. There was a good, in-depth conversation about it on Gator's Talk page. But for some reason... Gator blanked it! Hmmmm. Eleemosynary 16:45, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Read his edit summary - there was nothing sinister in blanking the conversation. Guettarda 16:52, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I've read it, and while it may not be sinister, it is in fact curious. I'm really not going to expend more time on Gator today. Read his puerile responses to my non-apologies, and you'll be able to figure out why. He's demonstrating the Wiki equivalent of sticking fingers in both ears and going NYANYANYANYANYAIAMNOTLISTENING!!!! Eleemosynary 17:03, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to unblank it if you think there is a cover up. I for one have no idea what you're talking about so couldn't find it if I wanted to. oh and is this an accsation or just another "inquiry?" I'll accept your forthcoming apology now. (give it up)Gator1 16:47, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope, still no apology. You have no idea what I'm talking about? Okay, I'll spell it out. Guetterda and you had a conversation on your Talk Page (under the caring, gentle heading "Since BD can no longer speak for himself"), in which Guetterda presented you with evidence of the administrator investigation and IP check of BD777's many sockpuppets. Not long after that happened, you blanked the message. Not much longer after that, you blanked the entire conversation.

By the way, here are the results of the IP check.

There are no results of the IP check there. The only thing I have found on the subject is a statement by Fred Bauder that the results of the IP check were ambiguous: . Do you have a real link to the real results of the IP check? Do you have a link to the diffs where results were posted on Gator's page? Jdavidb 16:21, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

In case anyone like me is researching, here's the diff on Gator's page . Nothing there but the same (broken) link to the same non-results. Jdavidb (talk) 16:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I just read your spirited defense of BD777, and your argument that he wasn't using sockpuppets until recently. I disagree, based on some pretty damning correlations between BD777's postings, and both anonymous ID's in question on the Coulter page. When I have a bit more time, I'll post my own argument under yours. Though more research is being done on the sockpuppetry, there is no question that some sockpuppetry has been unearthed. I trust the administrators' judgments who have temporarily blocked BD777 based on their judgment calls and the evidence at hand. You yourself have suggested BD777 may have recently begun using sockpuppets (as, I might add, he has promised to do). As for "real results" of the IP check, my link is not broken and works fine. Now, I don't really want to get into an argument about it. I'd rather await the arbitration results and enjoy the reason I started using Wiki in the first place... to edit an encyclopedia. Eleemosynary 16:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

The anchor of the link is broken. There is no place for #Sockpuppets to go to. You mean #Sockpuppets_of_BigDaddy777.

I'm not defending BD777 in general, but I am disputing the charges of sockpuppetry.

Whatever sockpuppetry has been unearthed appears to have involved some or all of the users you listed, but as of yet I've seen no statement from David Gerard that it involved BigDaddy. You keep linking to nothing but a list of names as proof.

I have no problem with BD being blocked. I could reverse it myself if I cared to, and I sure don't.

If BD has started using sockpuppets, it's because he was more or less goaded into doing so. Jdavidb (talk) 17:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, I disagree with your last statement. BD777 has been a highly abusive and destructive editor, so claiming his use of sockpuppets was from being "goaded" is a bit of stretch, at least to me. I would suggest he's been using the anonymous sockpuppets for some time to build consensus on the Coulter page. I also take issue with your contention that the anonymous IPS on the Coulter page cannot be him because they have a different tone than BD777's rants. On the contrary. One of the more sophisticated(?) uses of sockpuppetry is having a few that sound nothing like the primary user, so as to better give the impression that the primary user is (falsely) building consensus. You've taken the position that the IP check is not "proof." It may not be incontrovertible, ironclad proof at this point, but it's very likely the beginning of something. Again, we disagree. I look forward to the arbitration decision, though. For the love of sanity, if nothing else. Eleemosynary 17:11, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

You've misunderstood. I have not taken the position that the IP check is not proof. I have taken the position that noone has ever posted any IP check results. The posting there is just a list of names. There is no statement from anyone that BD was any of those people. There are no posted results of an IP check anywhere that I can see, or else the posting on the Workshop page needs to be clarified to actually say what it means. As near as I can tell, that list of names was placed there by Fred Bauder. He has neither confirmed nor denied that that posting is "results of an IP check" or "record of an IP check in progress." But he HAS stated that the results of the IP check were ambiguous. Unless you have something I do not, there are no public results of an IP check. I'm waiting for a statement from Fred Bauder to clarify if the stuff over at Workshop is supposed to be the results of an IP check or not.

As for goading, my statement was not that any sockpuppeting done by BD in the past was prompted by goading. My statement only concerns some stuff that happened this morning on his talk page. Jdavidb (talk) 19:00, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I haven't misunderstood you, nor do I understand your contentious tone. Considering the fact that BD777 severely attacked you on his Talk Page, I can see why you might be upset right now. But I have no desire to get into a talk page war. And as far as "goading" goes, BD777 (as you may now understand) needs no "goading" to revert to abuse, childishness, or sockpuppets. "Remarkable restraint," indeed. Eleemosynary 19:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Understand it now? Yeah, I thought so. And I accept your apology. Eleemosynary 16:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

If you feel I have wronged you in any way, then I apologize and regret not doing so earlier. Thank you for calling me on that. You're a class act.Gator1 17:17, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Eleemosynary, I do think there's a harm in checking. I think a sockpuppet check is a good idea when a vote or the appearance of a consensus is seriously disputed, with strong probable cause of sockpuppetry. Otherwise, it's just a distraction. It promotes a culture of calling "sockpuppet" instead of responding to arguments. It's sort of like arguing that the US 4th amendment against searches is pointless, because if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. Maybe that's just the libertarian in me. But, I also think there's probably a thoughtful reason why sockpuppet checks are made difficult here. Derex 20:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, I would agree with you in most cases. And this whole sordid BD777 affair (which has finally degenerated, like many third-rate tragedies, into farce) has left a lot of mud on the walls. But again, it was only an inquiry, supported not by vindictiveness or a hunch, but stemming from BD777's (now apparently untrue) protestations that he never used sockpuppets, and Gator's immediate leap to decry the admins who ran the IP checks. It's all a bit "the lady doth protest too much methinks."

I also agree that, in the overwhelming majority of disputes, "sockpuppet" accusations are and can be damaging to the group spirit. But this BD777 case is a special case indeed, soon to draw (one hopes) to a just and fair conclusion. Eleemosynary 02:31, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/BigDaddy777

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/BigDaddy777 has been accepted. Please place evidence at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/BigDaddy777/Evidence Fred Bauder 15:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

64.154.26.251

The following is the response I have sent to the person behind Viper Daimao (talk · contribs). The ip is an open proxy at Haliburton Corporation. I think most folks using it are just Haliburton employees doing ordinary editing, not connected to our edit warriors.

I have thought overnight about the proxy 64.154.26.251. There are two problems, one of the edit warriors from Ann Coulter was using it extensively as an alternative to a block of their account (At this point I don't know which, but you could look at the user contributions for 64.154.26.251 (talk · contribs) and figure it out. That takes a bit of time and actually doesn't matter (exactly who was using the proxy as a sockpuppet). The other problem is that you, and other Misplaced Pages users, those named on the /Workpage, were also using the proxy. Bottom line, once a vandal discovers an open proxy we can't leave it unblocked. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. It does not seem reasonable to request Halliburton to identify them and block them.

Use of the open proxy seems to be part of the arbitration case involving BigDaddy777, it actually is not as that case centers on personal behavior of a person you and the other users of the open proxy have no connection to.

Fred Fred Bauder 12:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Move for a temporary injunction against BigDaddy777

A move for a temporary injunction has been filed to prevent BD from altering or removing comments on his talk page. Please support. --Woohookitty 07:58, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I move we reject this brain-dead proposal. (I'm only trying to help WoohooKitty)Big Daddy 08:45, 8 October 2005 (UTC)