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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bulldog123 (talk | contribs) at 22:18, 22 March 2009 (→Category:Jewish philanthropists). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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March 20

Category:Members of the European Parliament from Northern Ireland

Propose renaming:
(next one added later)
Nominator's rationale: per other sub-categories of Category:Members of the European Parliament from the United Kingdom, which use the "for Fooish constituencies" format.
The place of birth of a politician should of course be categorised appropriately, but geographical categories of elected office-holders should reflect the place that elected them, not where they were born. Otherwise we would have absurdities like categorising Peter Hain as a "South African MP", even though he has been politically active only in the UK and has been elected to the UK Parliament (not he S. African one).
The "for Fooish constituencies" format removes any ambiguity about whether the categories are intended to reflect the nationality of the MEPs or the constituency they represent, an ambiguity which has led to the removal of Bairbre de Brún MEP from the Northern Ireland category. This is because she was born in Dublin, but was elected to the European Parliament for the Northern Ireland constituency. She made her political career in Northern Ireland, and was twice elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly for Belfast West, and renaming these categories to match Category:Members of the European Parliament for English constituencies and Category:Members of the European Parliament for Welsh constituencies will remove any ambiguity in her case and for any other MEP elected for a constituency outside the country of their birth. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:46, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Good point; but any fule kno that Hain is Welsh, just like John Redwood :) Johnbod (talk) 00:35, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Redwood is from Vulcan. Occuli (talk) 00:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I think that in the real world, people can be "from" several places, so it's a hazy way of constructing a category. As to the UK category, I will add it to the nom, which I should have done at the outset. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Eugenicists by nationality

Category:Eugenicists by nationality - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete and all sub-cats WP:OC#CATGRS. Trivial overcategorization. Bulldog 22:48, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Have you heard of WP:OCAT. Please provide a reasoning for why this does not meet those guidelines for deletion. Thank you. Bulldog 23:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  • LOL - Apparently you didn't notice my CFD nomination for Category:TED Speakers (directly below) where I explicitly cited WP:OCAT in my rationale for deletion. Furthermore, the burden is on YOU to make the case for deletion. You can't just waltz into CFD and toss out a couple of magical phrases and expect to have your request granted. Cgingold (talk) 02:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep. Dividing occupations by nationality is a long-standing convention, and in this case is particularly useful because the eugenics has has taken different shapes in different countries. Categorising eugenicists by nationality is therefore an important way of grouping related articles.
    (Additionally the nomination appears to request the deletion of all the articles in this category and its sub-categs, which is not how things work: proposals to delete articles should be made at WP:AFD, not here). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • We do divide occupations by nationality. Unfortunately, "eugenicist" is not an occupation. You don't get paid working as a . You may be a eugenicist, and work as a sociologist, or psychologist, or historian. Would you support a Category:Nihilists by nationality? Bulldog 06:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • How does the same nominator get from 'Jewish philanthropists' (below) to 'Eugenicists by nationality' in 2 or 3 edits in a few minutes? Must be an unusual 'to do' list.Occuli (talk) 01:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Six degrees of Kevin Bacon Bulldog 06:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
It's a two-way mixture of nationality and social belief system. Generally forbidden in WP:OCAT. And your reason for keep is....??? Bulldog 20:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Are you referring to how I changed my signature nearly half a year ago? Pay closer attention. Bulldog 20:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Bulldog, please pay closer attention to the long-standing wikipedia convention that a signature should include a link to your user page and/or talk page. Without such a link, only way to tell which user you actually are is by taking the extra step of looking at the page's history. That's an unnecessary inconvenience to other editors. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
First, there is no such rule. You're right, it's just a convention. And it saves people from leaving me passive-aggressive messages. Secondly, I find it humorous that because I drop three numbers off the end of my sig, somehow everyone is miraculously unsure of my identity, even though there is no other user named Bulldog. Bulldog`

Category:Jewish philanthropists

Category:Jewish philanthropists - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete WP:OC#CATGRS. Serves no purpose except to support the obsessions of certain editors. Trivial. Bulldog 22:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Cgingold is apparently unaware of Irrelevant intersections by race, gender, or ethnicity, where it is explicitly stated that Category:Jewish mathematicians is overcategorization. Yet, somehow, Cgingold believes Jewish philanthropists is not. Also note, that I don't think there has ever been more than a handful of instances that User:Cgingold has voted to delete a category with the word "Jewish" in it. Unless you provide a reason why this category should be saved but the mathematicians one shouldn't have been, I can only assume you are heavily swayed by biases. Bulldog 23:29, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
  • LOL - As if you would know! (Or have you been covertly wikistalking me??) Seriously, now - the only one pushing a very clear agenda here is YOU, my friend. A while back you made something of a career of getting Jewish categories deleted, no matter how valid. I'm perfectly aware of the guideline you've cited -- and more importantly, of how it has been misused ever since it was put in place through application as a supposedly binding rule, when it's really just a flawed statement of what is, in fact, a non-existent concensus on the subject. Sorry, but it just ain't gonna fly. (continued below) Cgingold (talk) 02:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I'll rephrase that. In every single 'Jewish'-related CfD you have participated in that I know of you !voted - never giving a reason why. Falling back on unrealistic expectation for the nominator. I've listed a guideline, correctly. You have yet to explain how it does not apply. Bulldog 06:29, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
You have listed a guideline without providing a persasive reason why it applies to this category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
There will always be an excuse for why people don't want to think about it. If I don't spoon-feed it, everyone will just play dumb and pretend not to know? I don't get it. Explain to me why Jewish mathematicians is an illogical cat, but Jewish philanthropists isn't? What I assume is your explanation is basically saying that all you need to be is ethnically Jewish and then you magically adhere to all Jewish cultural tradition. Which is completely nonsensical. Bulldog 22:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep pointy nom with no meat. The category is clearly different from Jewish mathematicians, since there is a Jewish way of being a philanthropist (giving money to Jewish charities for a start) when there is no Jewish way of being a mathmetician. Johnbod (talk) 00:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Then you admit that these people would actually have to be devout followers of Judaism, adhering to the most rigid religious codes in order to be categorized, yes? Bulldog 20:24, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Bernard Madoff almost makes me think we ought to reconsider our broad concensus against "former" categories. Or perhaps we should invent a brand new category for "purported philanthropists later found to have been frauds". I have a feeling that he's gonna have company. Cgingold (talk) 02:50, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment - I suggest that Bulldog might want to familiarize himself with the Jewish notion of Tzedakah, loosely translated as "Charity" -- a core concept in Jewish ethics, culture, and tradition. And also, try Googling the terms "Jewish charity" & "Jewish Philanthropy", which get 73,500 and 47,900 G-hits, respectively. If he still thinks this is a fundamentally trivial, nonsensical & pointless category, I'm afraid he is beyond my ability to help. Cgingold (talk) 02:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Ah. The all explaining google-hits-test. Yes, it's still a nonsense category. You can synthesis any organized movement + charity and find results. There is nothing at all suggestive that these people listed in the categories are being charitable because of some arcane Jewish cultural tradition when, it's likely, most of them haven't even regularly practiced Judaism. This is the same argument, attempted on Category:Jewish mathematicians. Again, Cgingold, how is this different? Bulldog 06:29, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Would you be willing to only include people that are observant of Jewish religion in this category then? Otherwise this argument is moot, as I'm fairly certain a good number of people categorized here probably have never attended a synagogue in their lives - except perhaps a few times as a child. Would you add Category:Christian philanthropists to a person who had Catholic parentage but does not practice Catholicism as an adult because 'Christians are charitable!!'? Bulldog 20:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Bulldog (or Buldog123 or whoever you are), it seems that there is a lot you don't understand about this category. Please read Who is a Jew?, and you'll see that according to most definitions it's quite possible to be Jewish without ever having said a prayer or been near or a synagogue. The same does not apply to Catholics. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
First, I should mention that this comment proves you and I are thinking on totally different levels here. To put it in a mathematical analogy, I'm trying to talk about calculus, and you're still teaching me how to multiply. So you're saying all you need is to have a Jewish ancestor and you automatically adhere to all arcane religious rules of Judaism? Makes a lot of sense. Bulldog 21:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
HAH. I've changed my signature almost an entire year ago. It just goes to show Hmains has never read a single message I've sent him in full. No surprise. Bulldog 20:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Being 'well-defined' is not a reason for "keeping." Anything can be well-defined. This is clearly just a way to avoid having a discussion about the category. Please provide a legitimate reason showing a connection between BOTH religious and non-religious Jewish people and charity/philanthropy. If you cannot, it fails the guideline in WP:OCAT. Or everyone that is not an adhering Jew should be removed. Bulldog 21:54, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:TED Speakers

Category:TED Speakers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Category:Gaelic Athletic Association clubs in America

Propose renaming Category:Gaelic Athletic Association clubs in America to Category:Gaelic Athletic Association clubs in the United States
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Longstanding policy to prefer "the United States" to "America" which is ambiguous. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 21:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Birth in 1951

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy delete as uncontroversial merge requested by creator. Good Ol’factory 05:23, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Category:Birth in 1951 - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete Underpopulated and not according to general Wiki convention. THE FOUNDERS INTENT 14:53, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Rochester, Medway

Propose renaming Category:People from Rochester, Medway to Category:People from Rochester, Kent
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Rochester is still in the County of Kent; Medway is merely a unitary authority for administrative purposes, not a new county. It's not like the metropolitan counties created in 1974, which actually were counties. The parent category is Category:Rochester, Kent, as is the article on the city. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Three times annually journals

Propose renaming Category:Three times annually journals to Category:Triannual journals
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Wouldn't the word for this just be "triannual"? Good Ol’factory 09:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Public libraries in Chicago

Propose renaming Category:Public libraries in Chicago to Category:Chicago Public Library (or, if not, Category:Public libraries in Chicago, Illinois)
Nominator's rationale: These are all part of one system, the Chicago Public Library system. So rather than rename it "Public libraries in Chicago, Illinois," I'd suggest naming it something more specific.--Mike Selinker (talk) 06:57, 20 March 2009 (UTC)