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Edit this section for new requests

Accusations of anti-Semitism

On the Workshop page for the WP:RfArb regarding West Bank - Judea and Samaria, Malcolm Schosha (talk · contribs) made the following comment:

The garden variety antisemite does not wish that he/she could have been in charge of the gas chamber at Auschwitz. They are just people who do not like Jews, who may occasionally make snide remarks, and show a general pervasive attitude of dismissiveness and disrespect. My personal view is that probably 90-100% of the users who initiated this arbcom case, and who support it, are in that category. Fighting back that level of antisemitism, which is so common, would be like fighting back the tide; and although Jews might complain about it, they virtually never try to make any kind of case -- with formal charges -- about it. Its just one of life's crummy annoyances. Getting rid of the average antisemite, would be like trying to get rid of the average dick: unfortunately hopeless. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 13:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm the user who initiated the ArbCom case, and I support it. I do not appreciate being called a 90-100% "garden variety" anti-Semite. This baseless accusation is a direct violation of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL. When asked to back-up or strike his comments, Malcolm Schosha (talk · contribs) replied with

Tznkai, I would like to keep the thread because there are some important points concerning this case in it. I do not have time now to reply to the criticisms of what I wrote, but will reply tomorrow as early as possible....but please remember that I do have real life obligations on my time, so be patient. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 00:49, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I live and work in a country that takes accusations of Anti-Semitism quite seriously, and since other editors have had few qualms about using my real name here, this kind of comment can have direct, real-life consequences. This is not the type of accusation that one can post and then "not have time now to reply to": any editor that has the time to make such serious and defamatory accusations, should also have the time to back them up.

Malcolm Schosha (talk · contribs) has not been officially notified of WP:ARBPIA, but his participating in the RfArb and other discussions on the topic should have made him aware of the restrictions and discretionary sanctions specified therein. Even without having been warned, this type of behaviour merits a serious response.

Cheers and many thanks, pedrito - talk - 02.04.2009 08:10

I agree that the comment at issue is in violation of NPA, but am unsure as to the proper procedural way to deal with it. A few questions: (a) Why do you think Malcolm Schosha is aware of Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA? He is not mentioned on the arbitration page. (b) Why should this comment be sanctioned through AE? Is it even strictly in the area of conflict ("the entire set of Arab-Israeli conflict-related articles")? (c) Wouldn't it be better sanctioned through the ongoing arbitration case itself in the context of which it was made?  Sandstein  09:07, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

a) this is Malcolm on this very board going after User:Cerejota for personal insults on "the talk page of on article under Arbitration enforcement". I'm assuming he meant special sanctions. While he admits to not knowing the language, he definitely knows the spirit.

b) I assume comments made on a RfArb regarding the area of conflict are subject to the same restrictions. The restrictions were the result of editors in the area not being able to play nice. This is Malcolm not playing nice.

c) The ongoing case is a very broad issue involving a number of editors. It will probably take forever until anything is decided, if ever. This is a very specific issue that, in my opinion, can be dealt with using existing policies.

Cheers and thanks, pedrito - talk - 02.04.2009 09:20

Thank you. I concur and have blocked Malcolm Schosha (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 24 hours for violating WP:NPA.  Sandstein  09:33, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick action, but could you couple the block duration to him taking back or striking his accusations? Otherwise, 24 hours is a small price to pay for defaming another editor... Cheers and thanks, pedrito - talk - 02.04.2009 09:38

No, our sanctions are all preventative in nature, and a coerced withdrawal is not worth much anyway. But should Malcolm Schosha continue to make attacks of this sorts, he may be made subject to additional and more severe sanctions.  Sandstein  09:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Vacio

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Vacio (talk · contribs) is involved in edit warring and POV pushing on a number of articles related to Armenia - Azerbaijan topics. For instance, in the article about Nagorno-Karabakh he has been trying to suppress the info about the Treaty of Kurekchay for quite some time. Originally he removed the mention of the treaty and the link to the article about it on 13 March: , and a week later he nominated the article about the treaty for deletion: Vacio claimed that no sources about the treaty were available, despite the fact that the text of the treaty in Russian from a scholarly publication, secondary sources mentioning the treaty and even the scans of the original document were provided. The result of the nomination was to keep the article. Despite that, Vacio started an edit war in Nagorno-Karabakh article, removing the information about the treaty. He did that 3 times within the last 4 days: In addition, he is attaching baseless tags claiming that the article about the treaty is an original research: This is an obvious attempt to suppress the information about this document, as there could be no reasonable doubt about the existence of the document, after so many sources being provided. Another article where Vacio wages an edit war is that about Ibrahim Khalil Khan, where he removes statements from the scholarly sources, which say that the person was Azeri, or adds a statement that he was either Azeri or Turkic, as if Azeri cannot be Turkic. It is well known, that Azerbaijani people are one of the Turkic peoples, so it is the same as saying that a Russian person is either Russian or Slavic. As one could see, this user has been engaged in a pointless edit warring on a number of pages, disrupting normal editing. It is worth to mention that Vacio has been twice placed on editing restrictions, but both times the sanctions were lifted, first time because the arbitration enforcing admin was given incorrect information that Vacio had no prior warning, , while in fact Vacio was officially warned: , and second time after Vacio promised not to edit war.

I think the recent activity of Vacio in arbitration covered area warrants placing him on editing restriction again. According to the ruling of the arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. So please consider placing this user on editing restriction, because his behavior has not improved after he was given second chances. Grandmaster 06:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Reviewed this user's contributions. Edit-warring to Ibrahim Khalil Khan while telling other users not to edit war, reverting an opponent on his own talk page after opponent is blocked, etc, etc; tendentiousness. Seems relatively clear that he too should be on the restriction, so I'm imposing it. I noticed too that Elsanturk violated his 1rr restriction, though this was three days ago so it's a bit stale at this point. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 09:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Altough Deacon of Pndapetzim already placed me under AA restriction, I hope admins will pay attention to my plea. --Vacio (talk) 12:29, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

• First of all about the Treaty of Kurekchay. This information is controversial, and yes, as an user recently noted, it is not based on reliable secondary sources, but rather personal interpretation of a source and thus Original Research per WP rules. I can not understand how Grandmaster in one case permits himself to remove OR (cf. ) while he is not happy when I do the same, although I had weeks ago requested for a source, which was not provided. Removing this information from the Nagorno-Karabakh article, was not because I thought we should not add information about it there, but because I thought we should firstly try to find reliable secondary sources, also to discuss it and try to achieve consensus how to represent information about that treaty. I then based myself on WP:BRD and tought that I was not edit warring. An evidence that I was not in mood for edit warring can be the fact that it was me who started a discussion about the issue (see Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh#Kurekchay Treaty) and the fact that I have many times noted that I am not against adding info about the Treaty of Kurekchay in the article, but the information must come from reliable secondary sources (). However no such sources were provided, except of a footnote from a translation of a historiography, which was not directly related to the Treaty of Kurekchay as WP:NOR requires, but it even does not mention it specifically. Thus, yes I placed the OR tag in the article Treaty of Kurekchay and even at one point nominated that article for deletion. Bacuase according to WP:VERIFABILITY: If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Misplaced Pages should not have an article on it. and Any material lacking a reliable source may be removed.

• As for the Ibrahim Khalil Khan. There were indeed differences about his origin, but in this case again I engaged in discussion trying to avoid edit warring. The fact is (see the provided source) that from medieval times present-day Azerbaijan was inhabited by various Turkic tribesmen who in modern history were absorbed by the Azerbaijani people. Ibrahim Khalil Khan was such a chieftain of the Javanshir clan, itself from the Afshar tribe, in turn a branch of Oghuz Turks. Thus most of the sources call Ibrahim Khalil Khan a Turkish chieftain, while in 2 other sources he is called an Azeri. Grandmaster tried to synthesize those sources as if they all say he was an Azeri, thus I decided to represent both group of sources apart until we will discuss the matter. No one in the talkpage agreed that in this case a Turkish or Turkoman chieftain is exactly the same as Azeri and a third-party user noted that Ibrahim Khalil Khan , was before of establishing the new concept of the term "Azeri " ( Turkic ) ethnicity , and his ethnicity to be old Iranian ( of Azerbaijan region ) or Turkoman ( of central Asia ) is unknown. And while we were still discussing, user:Elsanaturk, who never added a single remark in the talkpage, again and again added that he was Azeri and removed the mention that he was Turkish according to other sources (). This behavior considerably hampered us to continue discussion and reach consensus. I have twice separated "Turkish" form "Azeri" (quoting sources apart) and only one time I removed both (please look carefully the other diffs, at first sight it seems that I am deleting "Azeri", but I am only writing that Ibrahim Khalil khan Javanshir (1730-1806) was the Turkic , according to some other sources Azeri khan of Karabakh etc.).

• Finally. Yes in September 2008 I was warned and then placed under AA restrictions, while Grandmaster was warned. However I was not released just because I promised not to edit war, but because user Parishan and Grandmaster continuously refused what was discussed and afterwards accused me for edit-warring against which I reported to User:Rlevse and the he lifted the restrictions. Rlevse noted on my talkpage: you seem to be making a good faith effort, so I'll lift the restrictions, but Granmaster again and again recalled that I was once placed under parole and I need to be placed under it again. Now he comes again with such demand, while he himself recently made reverts which I think were edit-warring and did not reflect what was or had been discussed in the relevant talkpage ().

• As for this revert, I thought that users are not allowed to delete reports by admins and I believed that it was some kind of vandalism. I apologize if I was not allowed to do so. For my other edits, I request for understanding for the fact that I really was not in mood for edit warring or something, though I understand that I made too much reverts, while I could be more patient. --Vacio (talk) 15:14, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The above is another attempt to mislead the admins. This user has previously been officially warned, , ignored the warning, placed on editing restriction , given another chance, placed on restriction again , and given yet another chance. I never heard of another person who was given so many second chances. This is the third time Vacio is placed on editing restriction, which is something unheard of. Normally this happens only once. With regard to Sardur, whom Vacio refers to, he tried to resume the edit war started by Vacio on Nagorno-Karabakh, but was reverted by uninvolved user: , who told him to settle the differences at talk. So Sardur can hardly be a reference in this dispute, as he joined Vacio on a number of occasions in POV editing. As I said before, all the required sources about the Kurekchay treaty have been provided, but Vacio claims that they were not, refusing to accept the fact, even after his AfD failed, started removing the info about the treaty and links to it from the article. This hardly can be considered a constructive editing. Same with other articles, where he tried to replace Azeri with Turkic, as if one contradicts the other. --Grandmaster 15:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The results of an AFD bare no impact on the validity of the article's content or its usage elsewhere. The AFD you are referring to merely determined that "something" existed. As for your next character assasination point, Turkic does not contradict Azeri but Azeri contradicts Turkic but this not a forum.-- Ευπάτωρ 16:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Ayn_Rand

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Some relevant links

• Ayn Rand (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• TallNapoleon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• LoveMonkey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Peter Damian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Snowded (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Brushcherry (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Snowded (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The editing environment at Ayn Rand has begun to rapidly degenerate yet again. Personal attacks, insults and accusations of bad faith are flying, and large series of edits are being made to the article without consultation on the talk page. I would like to urgently request administrator intervention to help enforce the recent ArbCom ruling. TallNapoleon (talk) 08:06, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Please provide diffs of any misconduct as well as links to the relevant page(s).  Sandstein  10:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I would like to note here that a set of editors on the article appear to be engaging in editwarring technics of frustration and personal attack. They are also attacking peer reviewed sources because those sources specialize in the subject and are therefore by these editors standards are "biased". I joined the article on March 19 alittle over 10 days ago and have been in protracted and unproductive arguments and been called insane on Jimbo's personal talkpage by one of the warring editors. LoveMonkey (talk) 12:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's User:Peter Damian Insults and threats and general disruptive behavior.

• 1.Here Peter Damian goes to JIMBO's talkpage and claims that I am insane.

• 2

• 3.Here Peter Damian clears up who the message on JIMBO's talkpage was for with a clear and disrespectful attitude..

• 4."As academic philosophers take little interest in our topic, it follows that, in general, they are not a good source for it. " This is easily one of the stupidest things you have said. Which is something in itself." This one after Peter Damian accused an editor of being a WP:Dick.

• 5."As I said, I refuse to contribute to this train wreck, I am just going to hack it to pieces from the sidelines until someone decides to write something clear, sensible and well-sourced." This comment (not directed at me) is what prompts me to state that this editor and his cohorts are not at all about improving the article. This clearly states their editing agenda and their behavior validates the comment.

Examples of his refusial to remove the insults and threats of reporting to Arbcomm. He refused the request to remove the comments from administrator User:DGG.

• 1.
• 2.
• 3.

Here's User:Snowded disruptive, disrespectful, hyer critical and obstructionistic tactics.

Using Misplaced Pages Policy to frustrate and edit war. In general argumentive and unapologetic about behavior even after being banned.

• 1.Scared aware and love it!
• 2.Accusing me of violating WP:3RR and letting me know that he will make sure to not be so lax in the future.
• 3

LoveMonkey (talk) 13:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Please format your comment coherently (signature at the end only, all lines at the same level of indentation) and notify Peter Damian of this thread.  Sandstein  13:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I have notified both Peter Damian and Snowded and their respective talkpages. LoveMonkey (talk) 13:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I hope you have more success that the rest of us in getting LoveMonkey to use indents properly Sandstein. As for the rest we have an editor who edit warred against consensus on Existentialism here, here, here and here advocating a particular unsupported and insupportable position failing to address any of the arguments and attempts to help advanced on the talk page as can be seen here. S/he has now arrived at the Ayn Rand page with similar propositions. The recent unsupported insertion of material on the Prisoner here where his position again fails to address any of the reasoned arguments but simply rambles around a partially understood subject. Most editors have tried their best to be polite, but I can understand Peter's response. Politely pointing out that no evidence has been presented that in any way says the Prisoner writers or cast were influenced by Rand, produced an attack on editors here with no attempt to address the content. There are several other examples. He has now issued a general and unsupported accusation above " disruptive, disrespectful, hyer critical and obstructionistic". In respect of his/her specific references, on point 1 I made the point that scaring away people who rejected consensus was not something I would feel guilty about, and in respect of the second I made no threats, but simply pointed out that had other editors not attempted to comply with WP:BITE he would have been reported for 3RR on Existentialism.

In addition we have BushCherry who was sanctioned to diversify his/her interests and engage on the talk page with the subject not the editors. In practice all bar one edit (check his contributions page) have been on the Ayn Rand talk page, and they are all commentaries on the editors not the content. --Snowded (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

This is Arbitration enforcement. Please don't come here unless you have a particular arbitration remedy to enforce. This has not been listed, so I don't see much to do here. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

AA2 breach

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Rather amusing that Brandspoyt below selectively chose who was at fault in the edit wars. For all that, let's not forget that Elsanaturk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is essentially a revert warrior who pops in and out of articles, without really adding any material. As a party to AA as well as AA2 and despite numerous warnings, he reverted no less than three times on the same article below , , , without contributing anything to the article's talk page. According to decisions made in AA2, "any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process." A similar pattern of war-reverts seems to exist among other articles as well.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:25, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Could you provide us with diffs for the "numerous warnings", as well as for any recent disruptive conduct, other than that edit war, that would warrant AA2 sanctions? Also, please notify Elsanaturk of this thread.  Sandstein  19:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Ignoring Meowy's pleas, the "numerous" warnings refer to his knowledge of the 3RR rule and the guidelines in place of AA see here. Blind reverts have taken place here and here as well recently (the latter edit doesn't even distinguish that the fact that seven cited sources support the exact opposite of his reverts).--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Not actionable. You provide no diffs of warnings given to Elsanaturk, only one revert by him and one other edit (which is not in fact a revert) that it seems you object to because you disagree with it. In other words, you provide no evidence of continued disruption that would warrant a sanction. Please do not misuse this noticeboard for frivolous requests, or you may yourself be made subject to sanctions.  Sandstein  21:32, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

AA2 breach

On Oct 18, 2007 Meowy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was placed termlessly under AA2 restrictions and is listed among people placed under the editing restrictions. He was limited to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism, but recently made three reverts in two days at the same page: , , . Despite Meowy's appeals for sticking to talk it was him who resorted to edit-warring. Previously he removed other user’s comment at AfD discussion, allegedly because he did not like it. According to AA2 decision, any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. brandспойт 13:59, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Y Blocked for 48 hours for the revert restriction violation.  Sandstein  14:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

The Original Wildbear

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• The Original Wildbear (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The user's page states, Promoting accuracy in information. They have been disrupting Talk:Collapse of the World Trade Center with tendentious, repetitious arguments. It is highly disruptive to repeat the same rejected proposals over and over again. We've seen this pattern many times before. I request that this account be banned from all 9/11 pages under WP:ARB9/11's discretionary sanctions. Thank you. Jehochman 08:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Each single-purpose account that shows up beating the drum for the conspiracy theories should be warned once, and then banned from the 9/11 pages. There's no reason to keep going through this again and again. Tom Harrison 01:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

See for example User:DawnisuponUS. Tom Harrison 02:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Who apparently had experience of editing Misplaced Pages before that account was created. Dougweller (talk) 18:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, some of the accounts appearing at this venue appear to be similar in personality to prior accounts that were banned. Jehochman 19:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Could you or another administrator please give the user an official warning. That way they cannot claim lack of warning next time. There is in fact a warning about WP:NOR and 9/11 on their talk page at this very moment, but it does not specificly mention the arbitration case. Jehochman 18:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Done, Tom Harrison 12:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Is there proof that The Original Wildbear is User:DawnisuponUS? A cursory inspection indicates although there is a small overlap they edit at different times of day. Is "similar in personality" to a banned user a criteria for banning another user? Is it good faith to request a user be warned without any proof he has done anything to warrant a warning "just in case"? As you say "some of the accounts appearing at this venue" in the plural I assume you mean me as I'm the only one outside of your own supporters posting. Justify or retract the accusation. Wayne (talk) 07:57, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

No accusation was made. Stop disrupting this board with battleground tactics, please. Jehochman 15:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Ohconfucius yet again

Ohconfucius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has started delinking dates in violation of the date delinking injunction yet again today (). Take a look at his block log if you're not aware of the previous history with this user. -- Earle Martin 14:05, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

These are obviously not through a bot or script as there are other changes beyond one or two dates being delinked from each, and doesn't seem to be a program of "mass delinking" as cautioned against in the restriction. I see nothing wrong with his actions here compared to his earlier actions that were clearly against this. --MASEM (t) 14:08, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

This seems to be normal page cleanup, with minor de-linking. The injunction states,

"Until this case is decided or otherwise directed by the Arbitration Committee, all editors are instructed not to engage in any program of mass linking or delinking of dates in existing articles, including but not limited to through the use of bots, scripts, tools, or otherwise."

This is a trivial matter. As a courtesy, I've notified Ohconfucius of the post. seicer | talk | contribs 14:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I felt it best to mention this earlier rather than later, given this user's history of violating this injunction. -- Earle Martin 14:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

• I am so touched by your consideration, Earle. I would suggest my talk page being the most direct way of attracting my attention. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Depends what you mean if you think its trivial. As far as I can see he runs the script at User:Ohconfucius/monobook.js on each article he edits. This removes all date links, amongst other things. For me its right on the edge because its clearly script-based editing, but he's not doing it to many articles. On the other hand the intention is clearly to flout the injunction, since he is not doing the edits manually. If he spent more time editing articles it would clearly be a problem. As it is, I don't know. I admit that I find his manner abrasive, and I think he is probably getting pleasure out of deliberately skirting the edges of the injunction, so count me as ticked-off by an editor who is uncooperative. You can decide for yourselves whether that's a problem. AKAF (talk) 14:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I understand, and I have blocked him in the past (see ), but this is nothing in comparison to what has been done in the past. seicer | talk | contribs 14:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

• I think we should block the account until such time as all date linking or delinking scripts are disabled. Jehochman 16:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

• I totally rewrote three of those articles, spending a good half hour on each, and I probably delinked a couple of date links in each article while I was at it. However, I would pologise if my actions come arcoss as provocative. I undertake not to edit any more articles outside my current watchlist, so as to avoid any further accusations of deliberately delinking dates until the injunction is lifted. Ohconfucius (talk) 17:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Jehochman, my clear recollection is that you are INVOLVED, and should leave the matter to another admin. Now, Ohconfucius, given sensitivities and that he is a party to the ArbCom hearing, has been unwise; however, this hardly falls within the definition of "mass program" (as specified by the injunction). Indeed, he appears to have done a lot of other work on the articles concerned at the same time. I believe that in view of his written undertaking to avoid unlinking until the lifting of the temporary injunction against mass unlinking, he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I remind you that User:Kendrick7 was discovered to be fly-by relinking dates to many, many articles, over a period of more than two weeks—yet he somehow escaped blocking for the blatant breach of the injunction. I'm not saying that the injunction should not be enforced; however, Ohconfucius's article improvements at issue here seem relatively trivial. Tony (talk) 17:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Although Jehochman has made comments in the past regarding the case, that does not make him involved, per se. Given that he hasn't blocked Ohconfucius, to tell him to hold off on commentary is not a wise move. seicer | talk | contribs 17:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)