Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Shell Kinney (talk | contribs) at 17:10, 14 June 2009 (POV in the new note section from Talk:Roman Catholic Church). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Mediation Outcome

Overview

This was a multiparty mediation filed on January 19, 2009 by NancyHeise and signed by 19 participants, of which 17 have been active. The mediation was accepted by the Mediation Committee on January 27 and Shell Kinney agreed to mediate on February 10. Due to off-wiki commitments, Shell withdrew from the mediation; Sunray took over as mediator on March 4, 2009.

The mediation centered on the first part of the lead sentence of the Roman Catholic Church article: "The Roman Catholic Church, officially known as the Catholic Church..." At issue was the use of the word "officially" and also the significance and relative importance of the two names. Other issues in dispute pertained to the explanatory note for the two names and the use of sources in the note. Participants reviewed several alternative proposals for the wording of the lead sentence.

Research by participants determined that the name the "Catholic Church" was the most common name and also the name most commonly used by the church, when referring to itself. There was a rough consensus in favor of changing the first part of the lead sentence and much thought and discussion went into rewording the lead. It was agreed to re-draft the explanatory note to accompany this wording. This called into question the name of the article. Participants were guided by WP policy and guidelines on naming.

Relevant policy and guidelines on naming

The policy on naming conventions states: "Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity..." .

The following convention applies: "Except where other accepted Misplaced Pages naming conventions give a different indication, title an article using the most common name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article..."

The section of the policy on Controversial names specifically refers to Roman Catholic Church vs. Catholic Church and refers one to the guideline on naming conflicts. The guideline states: "Where self-identifying names are in use, they should be used within articles."

The guideline sets the following standards for making a choice among controversial names:

• "If the name of an inanimate or non-human entity is disputed by two jurisdictions and one or more English-language equivalents exists, use the most common English-language name."

A number of objective criteria can be used to determine common or self-identifying usage:

• "Is the name in common usage in English? (check Google, other reference works, websites of media, government and international organisations; focus on reliable sources)
• Is it the official current name of the subject? (check if the name is used in a legal context, e.g. a constitution)
• Is it the name used by the subject to describe itself or themselves? (check if it is a self-identifying term)."

Findings

• Google searches show that "Catholic Church" is the most common of the two names used on the Vatican website.
• The name "Catholic Church", rather than "Roman Catholic Church", is usually the term that the Church uses in its own documents. It appears in the title of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is also the term that Pope Paul VI used when signing the documents of the Second Vatican Council (see "Explanatory note").
• "Roman Catholic Church" is used primarily for communications with other churches.

Action plan

1. Change lead sentence

The lead sentence will be modified to read as follows:

"The Catholic Church also known as the Roman Catholic Church...

2. Add new explanatory note

The note will be modified to the following:

"There is some ambiguity about the title "Catholic Church", since the Church is not the only institution to claim catholicity. The Church is referred to and refers to itself in various ways, in part depending upon circumstance. The Greek word καθολικός (katholikos), from which we get "Catholic", means "universal". It was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early second century. After the East-West Schism, the Western Church took the name "Catholic", while the Eastern Church took the name "Orthodox". Following the Reformation in the sixteenth century, the church in communion with the Bishop of Rome used the name "Catholic" to distinguish itself from the various Protestant churches.

The name "Catholic Church", rather than "Roman Catholic Church", is usually the term that the Church uses in its own documents. It appears in the title of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is also the term that Pope Paul VI used when signing the documents of the Second Vatican Council. Especially in English-speaking countries, the Church is regularly referred to as the "Roman" Catholic Church; occasionally, it refers to itself in the same way. At times, this can help distinguish the Church from other churches that also claim catholicity. Hence this has been the title used in some documents involving ecumenical relations. However, the name "Roman Catholic Church" is disliked by many Catholics as a label applied to them by Protestants to suggest that theirs is only one of several catholic Churches, and to imply that Catholic allegiance to the Pope renders them in some way untrustworthy. Within the Church, the name "Roman Church," in the strictest sense, refers to the Diocese of Rome."

1. "Concise Oxford English Dictionary" (online version). Oxford University Press. 2005. Retrieved 10 April 2009.
2. Marthaler, Berard (1993). "The Creed". Twenty-Third Publications. Retrieved 9 May 2008. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dateformat= ignored (help) p. 303
3. ^ McBrien, Richard (2008). The Church. Harper Collins. p. xvii. Online version available here. Quote: The use of the adjective "Catholic" as a modifier of "Church" became divisive only after the East-West Schism ... and the Protestant Reformation ... In the former case, the West claimed for itself the title Catholic Church, while the East appropriated the name Holy Orthodox Church. In the latter case, those in communion with the Bishop of Rome retained the adjective "Catholic", while the churches that broke with the Papacy were called Protestant.
4. Libreria Editrice Vaticana (2003). "Catechism of the Catholic Church." Retrieved on: 2009-05-01.
5. The Vatican. Documents of the II Vatican Council. Retrieved on: 2009-05-04. Note: The Pope's signature appears in the Latin version.
6. Declaration on Christian Formation, published by National Catholic Welfare Conference, Washington DC 1965, page 13
7. Whitehead, Kenneth (1996). ""How Did the Catholic Church Get Her Name?" Eternal Word Television Network. Retrieved on 9 May 2008.
8. Example: 1977 Agreement with Archbishop Donald Coggan of Canterbury
9. Walsh, Michael (2005). Roman Catholicism. Routledge. p. 19. Online version available here
10. Beal, John (2002). "New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law". Paulist Press. Retrieved 13 May 2008. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dateformat= ignored (help) p. 468
11. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: "There is a further aspect of the term Roman Catholic that needs consideration. The Roman Church can be used to refer, not to the Church universal insofar as it possesses a primate who is bishop of Rome, but to the local Church of Rome, which has the privilege of its bishop being also the primate of the whole Church."

3. Rename the article

In light of the fact that "Catholic Church" is not only the most common name, but the name most commonly used by the Church to describe itself, it is the consensus of participants to rename the article "Catholic Church."

Consultation process

This summary and action plan are posted to the article talk page for community consultation. Shell Kinney and I will be facilitating the discussion, which will close at 12:00 noon, UTC, on June 26, 2009. The participants in the mediation welcome discussion regarding the action plan. Sunray (talk) 17:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This plan and its discussion has been moved to a subpage to avoid disrupting other on-going discussions. As issues are discussed and resolved, they will be archived or collapsed. Shell 17:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Question about the note

Where is that lengthy note supposed to go? In the lead? Footnote to something? Very long hatnote? Peter jackson (talk) 10:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It will replace the current note 1 in the article which is of no lesser length. NancyHeise 14:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

POV in the new note

As some of the participants are aware, but have not addressed, the new explanatory note cantains unsouced allegations, namely:

(1) While I am sure Protestants have used the term, so have other Christians, NonChristians, and as is clear elsewhere, "Catholics" have used the term of themselves.

More to the point the cited souce does not attripute this to Protestants; it attributes it just to others and Misplaced Pages should only attribute it to others."

(2) The reference cites only a basic info about the book and a http address at books.google.com that will be a dead link once the book falls below sales quotas someday. It should quote the source, Walsh, Michael (2005). Roman Catholicism as such:

If the whole quote is deemed too long including part of it could be fine.

(3) Since RCs have theological reasons for objecting to "Roman Catholic Church" then (to not be POV) you have to include the theological reasons of other Christians for objecting to "Catholic Church."

Non-RC Christians, object that rather than merely being under the implication that their Church is "one of other, equally valid, kinds" of Christians, Catholic Church implies that every other church is not even "one of other, equally valid, kinds."

--Carlaude 11:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Do you have reliable references that make the points about the term "Catholic" that you think should be in the note? Xandar 12:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)