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Requests for amendment

Use this section:
  • To request changes to remedies or enforcement provisions, for example to make them stronger or deal with unforeseen problems.
  • To request lifting of an existing Arbitration sanction that is no longer needed (banned users may email the Ban Appeals Subcommittee directly)

How to file a request (please use this format!):

  1. Go to this request template, and copy the text in the box at the bottom of the page.
  2. Click here to edit the amendment subpage, and paste the template immediately below this box and above any other outstanding requests.
  3. Using the format provided by the template, try to show exactly what you want amended and state your reasoning for the change in 1000 words or fewer, citing supporting diffs where necessary. Although it should be kept short, you may add to your statement in future if needed as the word limit is not rigidly enforced. List any other users affected or involved. Sign your statement with ~~~~.
  4. If your request will affect or involve other users, you must notify each involved person on their user talk page. Return to your request and provide diffs showing that other involved users have been notified in the section provided for notification.

This is not a page for discussion.

  • It may be to your advantage to paste the template into your user space or use an off-line text editor to compose your request before posting it here. The main Requests for arbitration page is not the place to work on rough drafts.
  • Arbitrators or Clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment.
  • Requests that do not clearly state the following will be removed by Arbitrators or Clerks without comment:
    1. The name of the case to be amended (which should be linked in the request header),
    2. The clause(s) to be modified, referenced by number or section title as presented in the Final Decision,
    3. The desired modifications to the aforementioned clause(s), and
    4. A rationale for the change(s) of no more than 1000 words.
  • Requests from banned users should be made by e-mail directly to the Committee.
  • Only Arbitrators and Clerks may remove requests from this page. Do not remove a request unless you are one of those individuals.

Request to amend prior case: Falun Gong

Case affected
Falun Gong arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. Six month topic ban to User:Olaf Stephanos from Falun Gong and related articles.
List of users affected by or involved in this amendment
Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

Amendment 1

Statement by Olaf Stephanos

I hold the view that the evidence presented in this arbitration enforcement case does not warrant such a sanction.

I agree that my tongue has been too sharp in some discussions; I have occasionally breached WP:CIVILITY by writing what I thought were seen as humorous remarks and stand corrected. I now understand that Misplaced Pages is not the forum for witty satire; my sincere apologies to all concerned parties, especially User:Colipon. I promise to treat others with more respect in the future and abstain from quirky metaphors.

However, in my opinion, a six month topic ban without a single warning of inappropriate behaviour does not seem fair. Also, I disagree with User:Shell Kinney's allegation that I would not know how to "write for the enemy". I feel my case has not been evaluated in the proper context – the extremely complex and long-lasting content disputes surrounding the development of these articles, the scars left by the ultra-hostile environment that lead to the previous arbitration case, the behaviour of other involved editors, and the signs of progress that are now unfolding, thanks to fresh outside input. As seen on the related talk pages, I have been very much favourable towards the recent mediation case, and have tried my best to develop these articles together with formerly uninvolved editors. I would also like the ArbCom to evaluate my recent edit history.

I feel that User:John Carter's opinions were decisive in imposing the ban. Contrary to what he says here, I do not believe that I have a severe conflict of interest in editing these articles; I am not a member of any related organisation, and can get no financial or other benefit whatsoever by taking part. I am merely interested in truthful, transparent coverage of a highly challenging subject, and I have always endorsed the use of peer-reviewed academic sources. See a comment regarding another editor on the CoI noticeboard: I also do not recognise myself from his characterisation of "being opposed to content which I belive wikipedia content guidelines demand". In my discussions I have frequently raised questions about reliable sources and due weight, and I have never opposed to taking matters to community noticeboards. Furthermore, no diffs were produced as evidence of such an attitude.

My honest belief is that the diffs presented in this arbitration enforcement case were essentially dealing with legitimate content disputes, not "POV pushing". Even if a brief glance may lead to a different impression, several of them had been approved on the community noticeboards. I hope that the ArbCom will be able to examine the evidence point-by-point, juxtaposed with my own statement. Also, I would ask for a contextual review of the "sound bites" that have been brought forth as examples of my incivil comments to evaluate whether they were mostly proactive or reactive.

As a final note, I'd like to say that I was involved in some discussions (such as this one) whose outcome depends on my ability to continue the work. I am almost certain that editors who have taken an opposing position in these discussions may support the ban, because they would no longer have to deal with such hard-to-refute arguments. Even if my style on the talk page has been regrettably harsh in some cases, I feel that my contributions to the content-related discussions have been largely beneficial. By toning down my speech and reflecting on my weaknesses, I believe that I have all the skills to play a significant positive role in this workgroup.

---

P.S. Despite explicit requests , User:John Carter has failed to produce evidence to back up his allegations that I have violated the content policies. I have never tried to "stifle criticism of Falun Gong in the content" merely on the basis that it is critical. I have been very clear on this. For example, see this thread where I disagree with Dilip Rajeev's edit: " I consider it counterproductive and unprofessional. By Misplaced Pages standards, Encyclopaedia Britannica is a valid source. The same policies and guidelines must apply to everyone. Your reasoning could be used against any material "our" party tries to introduce, and then it will only lead to endless edit warring (you should know) and anomie. Furthermore, the article will not appear credible to any third-party observers if everything "critical" is deliberately removed. If we assume that nearly every subject has a "majority view" and a "significant minority view", and that they're two different things, what would you call the "significant minority view" on Falun Gong and how should we include it in the articles? Even if you feel something shouldn't be in the lead, you should not entirely remove it but perhaps replace it in another section, as long as it's reliably sourced and verifiable."

I find his reference to Jennifer Zeng's suffering extremely insolent and disparaging towards me as a rational subject, as well as towards the experiences of Zeng in the hands of her torturers. Even though he just recently used "Bestiality is good" as a "humorous" example of something that would be placed in the criticism article if it were found in Falun Gong's teachings , I would never have expected to see the persecution exploited as an argument in this amendment case. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 20:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: I have requested User:HappyInGeneral to strike out some of my comments on the talk page by this explanation. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 07:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Addendum 2: Just to give you one more example. I have been 100% consistent with my views regarding "critical" sources: "Now we're talking. Let's incorporate that stuff. Can you offer some quotes, so that we can find start discussing their placement? We probably need to redesign the structure of these articles as well. As long as the sources are alright, the most serious obstacle has been removed, and I will be more than happy to cooperate with you. It's about time to move from discussion to actual work. I don't stand in opposition to critical voices per se, as long as the material complies with the Misplaced Pages standards. When I talked about transparency, I meant it. A rational reader will be able to come to his or her own conclusions, as long as the articles conform to WP:RS, WP:UNDUE, WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR." ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 14:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by John Carter

It is hard to convey to anyone just how bizarre the above comments strike me. Olaf seems to have been one of the primary parties to the arbitration which placed the article on probation, as per here, and yet he tries to convey that somehow he wasn't aware of the sanctions. Any reasonable person would, I think, understood that he was notified of the sanctions then. It is also true that at least one editor has indicated on the article talk page that Olaf's recent egregious violations of even the most basic etiquette as per here are to my eyes sufficient to conclude that what in fact happened was that Olaf forgot the sanctions might apply to him as well. John Carter (talk) 19:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I tend to agree that Olaf probably thinks of himself as being "witty" and "sarcastic". I remember when I was a college kid too, and I thought much the same thing about myself. The terms "arrogant", "abrasive", "abusive", "condescending", "egomaniacal", "insulting" and "completely unacceptable" were the terms other people used. In my case, "gutter humor" was included as well, and I think some similar phrase probably applies to Olaf as well. I am not myself saying that I necessarily agree with the length of the topic ban, and think that if Olaf displays over the next several months behavior without these concerns in the remainder of the wiki there is a very real chance that the length may be shortened. And if someone wants to begin enforcement proceedings regarding others, they are free to do so, but that would still be a different matter. While Olaf may have some grounds to see that the ban might be excessive, I'm not sure the circumstances he puts forward are cause to amend the ruling. John Carter (talk) 21:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
A few comments. Personally, I think HappyInGeneral's comments about how all editors involved should be giving a warning is a good one, but that the existing sanctions template on the top of the page already serves as such a warning. Regarding my contention that Olaf may have a conflict of interests regarding this subject, I have read in the Booklist review of Jennifer Zeng's book Witnessing History, which I have not yet added to the article in question, how she had to "come to terms" with the "painful conclusion" that, by signing a document saying she would no longer practice the tenets of Falun Gong, which was required for her to be able to flee the country, she had violated a central tenet of Falun Gong regarding "compromising with evil". Olaf has more than once proudly indicated that he too is a practicioner of Falun Gong, and thus, presumably, supposed to adhere to the same tenet. His actions and comments have certainly fairly regularly been of an totally uncompromising type. The viewpoint of the Chinese government, for instance, is I think clearly that of a significant minority, and thus deserves reasonable coverage, although he has I believe repeatedly objected to such information and indicated that adding such information would only serve or enhance the position of the Chinese government, when in fact it would, I believe, be what policy and guidelines demand of us. It could also be said that by trying to stifle criticism of Falun Gong in the content Olaf is himself guilty of "attempting to use Misplaced Pages for ideological struggle and advocacy", which is one of the reasons for banning other parties in the extant arbitration ruling. John Carter (talk) 14:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I would have expectedf to see Olaf indulge in the same sort of personal insults and attacks on this page as he has regularly done elsewhere, and can honestly imagine few better reasons to sustain the existing ruling than continuation to indulge in such clearly inappropriate behavior. Regarding his objection to what I at the time saw as being a clearly obvious, if lame, attempt at humor, he may have a point, but would suggest he pay more attention to his own failings in that regard first. John Carter (talk) 20:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I have I regret to say had no luck finding the link to the discussion, given the remarkable number of edits Olaf has had in recent days, so I am obliged to withdraw the statment until and unless I find it. Having said that, I also wish to state that I find Asdfg12345's misrepresentation of my earlier comment attempting to establish that any practicioner of Falun Gong would be obliged to adhere to what has been said to be a fundamental tenet of the faith in the way he did c0mpletely and utterly uncalled for and indicative of either very poor reading skills or some sort of willful intention to misrepresent the statement of others, either of which would be a very bad reflection on his character or ability as an editor. John Carter (talk) 01:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
This is merely a comment regarding some information I have recently discovered. I've only been involved at all with this topic for a few weeks. Olaf, who says on his user page that he has completed a masters degree and that he's been an editor here for over four years, could possibly be expected to in that time have consulted Stephen Jones' The Encyclopedia of Religion regarding Falun Gong, considering that I myself have found to be included in the reference section of every reasonably sized public or private library I have been to, and even online at the Gale Research website. It is, basically, the most highly regarded recent reference book on the subject of religion in general. This book contains a number of pieces of information which some might consider critical of Falun Gong, and it seems to me from his edit history that he has in general opposed addition of such information. It is possible that he never consulted this generally highly credited source, of course. It is also possible, at least potentially, that he did, but for whatever reason chose to not indicate as much, and, if he did know of it, and continued to oppose the inclusion of information he knew to be included in what is among the most reliable sources on the subject extant, I think that might speak very poorly of him indeed, were it the case. John Carter (talk) 15:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Olaf has subsequently commented to me that he himself had not consulted this source, and I have no reason to doubt his word in this matter. John Carter (talk) 16:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Colipon

This proposed amendment is not reasonable on any grounds. This plea is but another attempt to "outwit" the system. The WP:COI concern is very real. Despite what this user may otherwise claim, his edits and presence on this encyclopedia appear to only serve one purpose - to present Falun Gong in a positive light and to supress any criticism of the movement. Linking to a few superficial diffs of supposed "constructive edits" do not stand up against the vast array of evidence that suggest a very apparent pro-Falun Gong agenda (which has already been presented on WP:AE and do not need to be reiterated).

In addition, his disruptions on the article talk pages have been pervasive and on-going, and there were many warnings from the mediator, myself, and other uninvolved editors, which he now suddenly claims doesn't exist, using the pretext that "there was no warning" to justify his case. This is absurd. He claims to know a plethora of Misplaced Pages guidelines and policies yet somehow when this applies to himself, he is suddenly ignorant. Colipon+(Talk) 20:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

This is an extremely interesting, if ineffective way to go about what is by nature an arbitration amendments case. First, Olaf apolgizes. Then he characterizes the case as "unfair". Then two other editors come onto the page and flood it with text supposedly "defending" Olaf, but in reality just making more ad hominem attacks. Except this time, attacks on me was not enough, so they have now extended these attacks to several other good faith editors, non-involved editors, labelling us as a collective ("cabal"), and even John Carter, who came to the discussion only as an observer on invitation, is now being targeted.
It is regrettable that such charges can be laid upon so many users in such a short space of time, especially when in the course of this discussion, noticeable improvements are happening with all Falun Gong articles - with very direct input from a wide range of participants. I once again ask the users that are levying these personal attacks to stop, in the interest of focusing on the topic at hand, in the interest of our arbitrators, and dedicate more energy into the articles' contents, which should be priority. Colipon+(Talk) 21:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
If anything, the amount of negative and inflammatory commentary on these pages actually call for a longer, more serious ban, not a lifting of the current one. Olaf's intellectual maneuvering has now placed John Carter at the heart of this amendment case, even though it was I who filed for it, and another user that carried it out. Notice how he subtly shifts the burden of proof for "content violations" to John Carter, a good faith editor who a mere week ago was not involved in these articles at all. In a case like this the burden of proof is firstly on myself, and then on Olaf, and in a case of amendments, it should be placed on the arbitrator who placed the ban. How John Carter suddenly becomes the centre of focus is quite evidently another game being played by Olaf to crawl through some logical wormhole. This is a grossly misleading characterization of the entire situation. Colipon+(Talk) 02:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I want to caution the arbitrators looking over comments of "User:FalunGongDisciple". I have a feeling that this may be in fact be a sockpuppet or a meatpuppet - more attempts to play games the system. The user's sudden appearance in an arbitration enforcement case like this is extremely disconcerting. Colipon+(Talk) 16:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Asdfg12345

Basically he has just been making clever and cocky remarks in discussions about content--well, give a warning and tell him that if he continues to do it there will be a ban. His edits to the actual articles are not particularly problematic; this is essentially a content dispute, with disagreements as usual. Just banning outright for such a long time seems to neglect the wider context. Smarmy remarks and personal comments have been a feature of the editing experience on these pages for some time now: Olaf's case should reinforce for everyone that this has to stop, but banning him from the topic just like that is definitely going about it the wrong way. Actually looking through the diffs shows he's only guilty of being a smart-arse, and that doesn't warrant a ban. Having realised the need to change attitudes, I'm sure you'll see a very amiable and civil editor emerge.

Just an addendum, given Colipon's remarks. As my mother said to me: "When you point the finger, there are three pointing back." Can we then say that Colipon is dedicated to "present Falun Gong in a negative light and to supress any positive comment on the movement"? Can we say that Colipon has done any edits that portray Falun Gong in a positive light? I'd like to see them. What about Ohconfucius, PerEdman, Mrund? Let's see their history of edits that portray Falun Gong in a positive, rather than negative, light. Such a consideration is not even within the scope of AE, really, because these should be rulings on behaviour, not content. Olaf's disputes, anyway, have always been about reliable sourcing, not about the content itself; i.e., just because something is critical of Falun Gong is no grounds for removing it, it's about whether that source is reliable or not. Unfortunately, since some people peddle sub-par sources critical of Falun Gong, some editors have gotten confused sometimes (like with the Rick Ross sources...).

Olaf hasn't disrupted the talk pages any more than others. What are termed here "disruptions" are the regular course of discussion/argumentation about the subject matter and sources. His remarks are no more disruptive than Colipon's. This is basically a clash of viewpoints that has been taken to AE, there is no real evidence of editing that violates wikipedia content guidelines. ScienceApologist has gotten away with far worse remarks about other editors. A lot of the complaint about Olaf just used words like "arrogant", "cocky", etc., which are well and true, but shouldn't affect the ruling. Olaf has basically just played the same games as the others, except he's played them quite well. Tell everyone to stop and things can move on; we'll get a civil atmosphere with no personal remarks, and strict, dead-pan content discussions; when there are disagreements they go to community noticeboards, and there will be no more of this nonsense. 2cents --Asdfg12345 20:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and Colipon is far from neutral on this subject. He is a declared sympathizer with Samuel Luo who has refused to retract his words, and has exhibited decidedly anti-Falun Gong sentiments during discussion, even when he has disagreed with the Communist Party viewpoint. His complaints about the current state of the pages always refer to their apparently positive representation of Falun Gong, and not to whether they are based on reliable sources. The only difference is that Olaf has always strictly referred to content policies and guidelines, while Colipon has felt that strict enforcement of such rules is just a real hassle and impediment to his agenda. Like this line: "After reading the archives and history here it is a little naive to go on believing that if we keep this group of Pro-FLG users on this page, that it will be possible to improve it. Therefore my opinion is that a "wholesale ban" is more than necessary." -- great, reference to and argumentation from policy becomes wikilawyering, and instead let's just ban the pro-FLG guys. This whole AE case is obviously about eliminating a perceived opponent. Can whoever looks at this case please confirm they have checked Colipon's 20 points against Olaf's 20 points, and can they confirm any fault other than smart-alec remarks? --Asdfg12345 21:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: I hope those who investigate this will note the fact that, as Dilip points out, the only findings of substance in the diffs provided by Colipon relate to uncivil talk page remarks, and not to editing. Contributions are to be judged by the policies of WP:NPOV, WP:RS etc.; Olaf's contributions meet these requirements. If there were a claim that Olaf's contributions violated NPOV, since they clearly do not violate RS, that would have to be proven out. Presumably we are not saying that one particular editor cannot add sources which express a particular viewpoint, given they meet V and RS. If that is the basis on which Olaf is to be sanctioned (as in, because he has added sources which, for example, argue that the anti-cult movement has been a "lackey" to the Chinese Communist Party's campaign against Falun Gong, or which talk about the persecution suffered by Falun Gong adherents in China), expect a lot more AE cases. Would it mean that every editor has to make one "positive edit" for every "negative edit"? Will we have someone assessing whether edits are advocating one or another point of view, then tally them up? Most edits don't fit neatly into these categories, and a range of opinions and views should be respected.

The examples than Shell Kinney shows of Olaf's remarks fail to take into account the context in which they were made. For example, they were supposed to be "funny," there was a silly picture hyperlinked, and the word "your" was struck out; so the remark became "Ideological struggle blah blah blah" rather than "your ideological struggle blah blah blah" -- whatever the case, they're stupid remarks, but it's still important not to misrepresent them. Again, they are only talk page remarks, and I've seen far, far worse on wikipedia without a ban. The real issue here are the contributions, and I have not yet seen evidence of this user violating wikipedia's content guidelines. Everyone has a point of view on this subject, and their editing will reflect that, whether they like it or not; that's not a crime. The key is that people play by the rules and treat each other with respect. Any investigator of this case should be far more concerned with the recent blankings of sourced content on Falun Gong, despite protests and reversions.

Re John Carter's recent remarks, where is the evidence of the claim that this editor has opposed appropriate placement of material from the Chinese Communist Party? Apart from that, the spurious connection between Olaf's beliefs and the Zeng book are simply ridiculous.--Asdfg12345 20:19, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

PS: sorry for leaving such long notes!! That's embarrasing...--Asdfg12345 20:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by PerEdman

A very strange counter-case. Olaf Stephanos is obviously aware of his own behavior and that it has taken place in a probationary article. If he wants to show others how well he has learned from these realized mistakes, he has plenty of time to do so in articles on all other subjects than the one on which he has hitherto failed. The Falun Gong pages are indeed showing signs of improvement, which is another reason why Olaf Stephanos, considering his past behavior, should not be allowed to be active on those pages at this time. PerEdman (talk) 22:46, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Addendum
Because Olaf has added a final note to his statement since my statement, I add that the discussion he uses as an example above reflects badly on us both.. That discussion needs resolution, but I do not believe it will benefit from Olaf Stephanos' presence. PerEdman (talk) 00:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Response to statement by Olaf Stephanos
The behavior exhibited on this page is in line with the behavior that lead to the Arbitration Request. The articles are improving with freer discussions and boldness, so please do not repeal this ban. / PerEdman 21:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Response to statement by FalunGongDisciple
I would urge admins to ignore this brand-new user for now. Something decidedly fishy is going on and I don't know who thinks there is anything to gain by doing it. / PerEdman 17:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree with PerEdman, please ignore this new user, his edits are not constructive under any standard. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Ohconfucius

The sanction was clearly not focussed on the content, but on some rather toxic behaviour of Olav. Already, I am happy that the sanction seems to have brought Olav down a peg or two from this very arrogant comment, and elicited an unprecedented outpouring of contrition (albeit measured), above. The sanction may look like a 6 month block for a WP:SPA, but it's only a topic ban which covers about a dozen articles, so I think it is acceptable and appropriate bearing in mind there are nearly 3 million articles now on en:WP; Olav could gain immensely from working unrelated articles and with a wider pool of editors. I look forward to working with him when the topic ban is lifted in six months. It goes without saying that we will expect a high standard of behaviour from him then. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I would just like to comment on this edit here by Olav. I see great significance therein, as he qualifies his absence of conflict of interest, effectively owning up to a potential lack of objectivity. Of course, he is also correct in saying he is not a member of any related organisation even if he was a practitioner - we are frequently reminded that the concept of membership is inapplicable to Falun Gong. Ohconfucius (talk) 17:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I would add that I am displeased at how some of the comments in this amendment appear another unacceptable character assassination of Colipon. Some comments now include bitter attacks on myself (without mentioning me by name), and all those newcomers who do not align themselves with the Falun Gong; there are also assorted red herrings to deflect the blame for the toxic behaviour of Olav. Ohconfucius (talk) 02:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Shell Kinney

(Perm link to AE report)

On reviewing the report at WP:AE, I felt that the diffs given showed a pattern of strong POV pushing and incivil talk page commentary that created a hostile environment. As Olaf Stephanos was a party to the arbitration case, I didn't believe further warning was necessary in this case.

Samples:

  • The face of your ideological struggle just looks so much better with a faux moustache and a gargantuan plastic nose
  • I merely proved through direct quotes that your shining helmet of neutrality seems to be made of cheap Chinese tinfoil. If you weren't peacocking around with phrases like "neutral-minded editors calling on the pro-FLG side to adhere to NPOV", there would be no need to point out your double standards. Why don't you start playing your cards openly?.
  • "Guys, guys, here's a handkerchief to wipe your foaming mouths...
  • In my eyes you have come across as one raging anti-FLG bull.
  • regarding your comment about what I "insist", perhaps you'd better check your eyesight

However, I have no objections to ArbCom modifying or removing the ban as they see fit if they feel there's a better way to handle the situation. Shell 09:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by HappyInGeneral

Olaf has had a significant role in the discussions, and he has been taking part actively, with substantiated arguments, based on policies that drive value into Misplaced Pages. Given that several editors have engaged in breaches of WP:Civility, not just one. if we single out one participant the problem remains with an empowerment to those who issued the AE. In order to restore WP:Civility I think that the best practical approach is to issue warnings to all parties that engage in WP:NPA, followed by a topic ban if this does not help. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 11:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Dilip Rajeev

While I certainly agree that Olaf needs to tone-down his commenting style, pay attention to his conduct on talk, put things across in a manner more appropriate for discussion on an encyclopaedia article, and refrain from resorting to his "carnivalesque" style of commenting, I am of the opinion the contributions he has made to these articles should also be taken into consideration.

I'd request the arbitration committee to give due weight to the fact that Olaf's contributions to these articles themselves have, it may be verified from his contrib history, always been well sourced, well-written and adhering to wikipedia policies.

Among the 20 arguments presented by Colipon in making the case against Olaf - the only ones with any basis are those pertinent to talk page comments( this may be verified by considering the context of the edits, the sourcing of material added by the user, etc. ). Olaf makes this apparent in his response to these allegations. Further,on the talk page, other editors, including User:Colipon, have been equally, if not more, acerbic- calling for bans on all editors not agreeing with his POV, labeling legitimate changes "blatantly POV" , etc. These attacks are harder to see through - as they do not involve blatantly acerbic language on the surface - but baselessly accuse and attack editors to promote a personal agenda.

Another major concern I have is what Olaf points out here. An activity, which , as far as my limited understanding of Misplaced Pages policies can tell, is in blatant violation of WP:CABAL. And the activity is happening on articles placed on probation by the ArbCom. There have been very serious and problematic issues in edits by these users, in terms of content removal etc. One such very recent instance is here, a revert of a stable article to 1 year old version, on the basis of demonstratably misleading claims, in the process deleting several paragraphs of content sourced to mainstream academia, a centrally relevant image, and adding material from CCP propaganda sheets.(I consciously refrained from reverting the disruptions, to avoid a revert war, and hoping the admins will take notice.) The same user who reverted the article blanked out 20 K from the stable main-article claiming to make a "bold change", based on a comment by "Seb az86556."

I realize this is not the place to get into such discussion, but it seemed appropriate that I point out such behavior - particularly since these very users attempt to inculpate Olaf for talk page comments, while themselves demonstrating a pattern of editing, on the articles themselves, that is, to say the least, extremely disconcerting.

  • Seb az86556 on Ohconfucius' talk page: "you did well in keeping the this Olaf-guy at bay, and I can see now why the Falun Gong thing you emailed about will be "total war"..."
  • Colipon on Edward130603's talk page: "Anyway, do you have e-mail?"
  • Colipon on Mrund's talk page: "I'd sent you an e-mail today. Please check! :)"
  • Ohconfucius on Mrund's talk page: "I'm glad you're back. Drop me an email, I'd like a private chat with you."

Clearly, the editors who started this campaign have a rather strong agenda of their own. How does a few haughty talk page comments even compare to rallying for "total war", outside of wikipedia, on articles placed on probation by the ArbCom?

Regarding the agenda held by the above editors, I consider it at least peripherally relevant that User:Colipon has identified himself as a supporter of User:Samuel_Luo and has not retracted his comments.

Dilip rajeev (talk) 19:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Simonm223

The only agenda that Colipon, Ohconfucius or anybody else, has on this issue has been an honest and earnest attempt to make the FLG articles have some semblance of neutrality. Sorry, I don't want to go into an extensive discussion on the matter but, the record speaks for itself.Simonm223 (talk) 01:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment by Seb az86556

One example of the progress that's been made since the imposition of the ban can be found here: New Proposed Outline Seb az86556 (talk) 03:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Vassyana

This appears to be part of a move from away from the long-standing dysfunctional environment, which includes a failure to utilize appropriate resolution options and pervasive personal accusations in article talk. Complaints about behavior were moved away from the article talk to an enforcement venue. An uninvolved administrator with significant experience and a solid reputation concluded that the evidence supported a commensurate sanction. Regardless of individual opinions, an appropriate process and review was utilized to address the disputed conduct. While this matter is an arbitration enforcement, unless arbitrators believe Shell Kinney has seriously erred or that the process was misused/gamed unduly, they should leave the matter to the enforcing administrators and community. Reversing the proper utilization of appropriate venues would be seriously damaging to the (slow but still substantial) progress being made in the topic area. There may be conduct issues involving other editors, whether it is accurate accusations of misconduct or problematic behavior by way of spurious accusations. However, there is no need for ArbCom to address those issues at this time. Other complaints can be similarly handled by the complainants and community through discussion, a request for comments, and/or enforcement venues. Vassyana (talk) 19:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Statement by yet another editor

I do no think that Olaf should be banned. He is such a great editor who fights against communist CCP agents. Letting Misplaced Pages enlighten the people on the greatness of Falun Dafa will be beneficial to all.

I think we should change the topic ban to ALL the CCP AGENTS. They are being disgusting.

Falun Gong must be shown not as a cult either. Nor should it be called a religion. It is just the ultimate spiritual practice that nothing else can compare. It has no political agenda either. Please reconsider Olaf's case based on the fact that Falun Dafa is the Great Law.--198.85.228.129 (talk) 15:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC) --FalunGongDisciple (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

  • Does anyone else want to make a statement? Will aim to review this tomorrow or the day after. Carcharoth (talk) 00:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Apologies for the delay - will aim to review this today - and will ask other arbitrators when/if they intend to comment. Carcharoth (talk) 17:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Uphold sanction. Vassyana's comments and others are noted. We are not talking about a total ban from WP, the editor has an opportunity to show they can edit in a constructive manner elsewhere. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I see no reason to alter the sanction; the behavior on display certainly does not encourage it and, as Casliber has correctly pointed out above there are millions of other articles where one can contribute constructively. Someone unable or unwilling to contribute outside a specific issue should probably give serious thought to whether they are here to build an encyclopedia, or to evangelize. — Coren  03:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Request to amend prior case: Privatemusings

Case affected
Privatemusings arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. Principle 3: The use of sockpuppet accounts, while not generally forbidden, is discouraged. Abuse of sockpuppet accounts, such as using them to evade blocks, bans, and user accountability—and especially to make personal attacks or reverts, or vandalize—is prohibited. Sockpuppet accounts are not to be used in discussions internal to the project, such as policy debates.


List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

Amendment 1

  • Principle 3: The use of sockpuppet accounts, while not generally forbidden, is discouraged. Abuse of sockpuppet accounts, such as using them to evade blocks, bans, and user accountability—and especially to make personal attacks or reverts, or vandalize—is prohibited. Sockpuppet accounts are not to be used in discussions internal to the project, such as policy debates.
  • The word sockpuppet should be replaced by alt account. Sockpuppets are bad things; alt accounts (as this principle admits) can be good things.
  • More importantly, the last sentence should be struck or recast.

Statement by Septentrionalis

The last sentence, italicized above, sets policy. It has been adopted at WP:SOCK, apparently on the basis that ArbCom said so. It is, I think, bad policy, but efforts to amend it while ArbCom's wording continues will be met with this irrelevant argument.

  • It does not describe what Privatemusings did wrong; see a summary of the problem, by JzG, here. Privatemusings had an account which revealed his real world identity; he set up several alt accounts:
He then proceeded to discuss policy intemperately, under the assumption that at worst, Privatemusings would be blocked, and Purple would continue unscathed. He also developped most of the abusive techniques that WP:SOCK condemns.


JzG suggested the following as an acceptable solution: At this point, had Privatemusings chosen to return to his second account, which is not traceable to real world identity..., but the second account (Purple) was still an alt.
The problem here was the abusive editing, and the assumption that alt accounts would not be recognized, so Purple would escape scot-free; not the discussion of policy. If Bishzilla were to discuss policy, nobody would complain, as long as Bishonen stayed out. We are all pseudonyms; it doesn't matter which pseudonym discusses policy, but what arguments they use.

Thank you. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I think Brad's point about deception is fairly well taken; the incorporation into WP:SOCK does not say that, and would be a reasonable policy if it did.

Again, the User:Geogre case, like all the others, concern abuses of alt accounts. To say that that justifies banning them would be like saying that the number of cases about bad admins justifies abolishing adminship. Tempting though that sometimes is....;-> Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Will Beback

I think this is proposed amendment is a bad idea. PMAnderson doesn't present any significant example of the current prohibition has causing problems. The use of undisclosed alternate accounts is tolerated in certain circumstances, but those should be kept limited to those that demonstrably help the project. There is no reason why an editor in good standing should need to use an undisclosed alternate account to discuss or edit policies, or other internal project debates. If that were allowed, there are many problesm that could arise, even by editors who feel they are working in good faith. See the recent matter of user:Geogre for an example of that. User:Privatemusings is another. It is easy to imagine a situation in which an editor is trying to make an edit that may not be allowed by policy. If he made a change to the policy using his regular account then it would be an obvious case of gaming the system. If he uses a separate account it might not raise any concerns. Misplaced Pages operates on transparency and mutual trust. This would be a step in the wrong direction.   Will Beback  talk  21:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

RexxS is correct that the community sets policy, but it does so in various ways. One way is by through consensus on relevant discussion pages, another is by altering the written policies, and a third is by unchallenged interpretations of the ArbCom. This particular matter was discussed by the community before the ArbCom decision, and after the decision the written policy was amended. So all three components of the policy setting mechanism were involved in this.   Will Beback  talk  23:33, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Statement by RexxS

I comment solely on the narrow point that "the last sentence should be struck or recast". I believe that ArbCom should take care not to make pronouncements that may be characterised as "making policy". Policy on Misplaced Pages has always been created by the community reaching consensus on a particular practice. The expression of that policy may then be documented on policy pages; and subsequently may be used by ArbCom to guide their deliberations. It is completely anathematic to our principles when a small group—even one as august as ArbCom—makes a statement that is then incorporated into a policy page and subsequently imposed upon the community. Put simply, that is the wrong way round. If it were to be shown that ArbCom were reflecting an as-yet-unwritten practice (forbidding alternative accounts to debate policy), then I would retract this statement. As it is, I doubt that to be the case, and request ArbCom to reconsider the wording "Sockpuppet accounts are not to be used in discussions internal to the project, such as policy debates". --RexxS (talk) 23:19, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Response to Will Beback
I will have to beg to differ. There is a difference between policy being made and policy being documented. Making of policy occurs by the cumulative actions of our community of editors and enjoys consensus by that very fact. The only exception to that is when an RfC definitively decides on a policy that is contested. Documentation of policy may indeed occur by the three methods you outline, but please understand I am not arguing semantics. You only have to review WP:ARBDATE to see the results that can arise from assuming that changes to policy pages—even those enjoying consensus there—sets policy. The standard required for setting or changing policy is high; and without a strong community consensus, either taken from clear current practice or from a conclusive RfC, you leave it open to challenge at any time. It is exactly for those reasons that I humbly caution ArbCom against making policy statements, unless it is crystal clear that such policy already has uncontested community consensus. --RexxS (talk) 00:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Statement by User:Privatemusings

That bit was always a bit clumsy of a rather grumpy arbcom I reckon - the real problem in my view is folk kidding themselves that they're discussing principles, when really they seem to be looking for policy guns to shoot someone with - sometimes to avoid listening. This isn't really directed at anyone posting here at the mo, mind.

I do get to take this opportunity to point out the delicious irony of the chap rather vigorously condemning me at the time, running his own 'sock' throughout, complete with chat's about policy ;-)

Oh and my first account was kind of tangentially linked to my identity (particularly through other online sites and stuff) - but I'm cool with anyone mentioning it - it's not a 'badusername' ;-) - you can even call me Peter, I won't report you! Finally, I'd like to reiterate that I continue to assert this stuff, wouldn't agree with Sep's write up above (or maybe it's Sep's write up of JzG's statement?) - and though it's rather ancient history, and no big deal any more I'd point out that not a single diff has ever been forthcoming which showed deception in terms of multiple accounts (or much else for that matter :-)

If the silly 'you can't use an alternate account in policy discussion' bit is causing trouble, strike it, otherwise Brad seems spot on, as usual. Privatemusings (talk) 00:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

  • Recuse, Privatemusings (under what was then an alternate account) edited alongside me at WP:NPA and related proposed policies. I am considering making a statement in this case. Risker (talk) 19:31, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
  • The use of alternate accounts, while tolerated in certain circumstances, is generally not viewed in a good light by the community. The recent events are a clear indication of that. The use of alternate accounts (whichever name you use) in discussion or procedure, which depends on a clear consensus, is uniformly destructive. I see no reason to amend. — Coren  21:44, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
  • I was not an arbitrator when the Privatemusings case was decided in November 2007 (in fact, only one member of the 2007 committee remains an arbitrator). However, I opined on the proposed decision talkpage at that time that the sentence being questioned in this request for amendment was, indeed, an interpolation into the alternate accounts policy rather than a reiteration of it. (See, Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/Privatemusings/Proposed decision#Principle 3 concerning sockpuppet policy.) In the ensuing discussion, it was suggest that this was simply an interpretation or exposition of the then-existing policy. ¶ Whether "only primary accounts may be used on policy and arbitration pages" is a desirable policy is debatable: on the one hand, we do not need rampant socking and game-playing on these (or any other) pages, and posting to these pages from primary accounts helps others discount a given user's input to the extent that might be warranted by knowledge of that user's own agenda or history; on the other hand, I can readily imagine situations heavy with "wikipolitics" in which a good-faith user would want to participate other than under his or her primary username. In my view, discussion on this issue can proceed on the relevant policy page, rather than seeking to amend this decision some twenty months after the fact. ¶ I would also note, with some dismay that it seems necessary to do so, that the obvious point of the sentence in question was to avoid concealment of the identity of a person commenting on these pages. Some of the instances mentioned above obviously do not, in any fashion, implicate that concern. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:03, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Per Coren. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Just a comment related to Privatemusing choice of words. Please avoid calling people with names that don't belong to them (re the chap). That's all for the moment! -- FayssalF - 00:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Initial point, one reason for the inclusion of this wording was to make people accountable for their comments during policy and dispute resolution discussions. If an alternative account is linked by name, disclosure on one of the user pages, or by definitive comments made by the account, then that would satisfy this concern. So several of the examples would not pertain to the particular wording. -FloNight♥♥♥ 13:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Decline Per Coren. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Recuse on all things related to Privatemusings. John Vandenberg 02:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Agree with Coren et al. Wizardman 21:41, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
  • My views on arbitration decisions and principles being imported into policy or guideline wording have been stated elsewhere before. Such wordings and principles should only be added following discussion at the policy or guideline talk pages, and only if it does in fact represent emerging consensus or current practice. There will be exceptions when there is immediate consensus at the talk page to make a prescriptive change, but such change should be mostly descriptive, though it should always be borne in mind that current practice is not always best practice. In this case, there needs to be a discussion at the policy talk page about what represents current and best practices in these situations. My personal view is that alternate accounts should only be used in limited circumstances, for clearly defined reasons. Most alternate accounts should be clearly identified, by their name, and/or by a template or note on their user page identifying the master account. Simply adopting the same mannerisms, or self-identifying while editing, is not enough - any editor must be able to go to the user page and find out who they are really talking to. If there is good reason for an alternate account to be undisclosed, then it is the responsibility of the operator to keep the two accounts separate, and not edit in the same areas as the main account. Even then, if the undisclosed secondary account encounters someone known to the primary account holder, that can be a problem. As far as terminology goes, the term 'sockpuppet' is used too liberally - in my view, it should be reserved for deceptive use of other accounts. A clearer distinction should be drawn between sequential accounts (retiring one account and starting a new one, but not returning to carry on a dispute started by the original account, obviously!), editing while logged out (either intentionally or otherwise), editing as an IP when blocked, and deceptively operating two or more accounts simultaneously in the same area (socking). There are different reasons behind all these, and conflating them and applying the term "socking" to all of them does more harm than good, in my opinion. Finally, for alternate accounts and arbitration cases, my view is that only primary accounts should be used on such pages. Even using obvious accounts such as "NAME-2" can be misleading, as that splits contributions between two accounts, making it harder to apply scrutiny to all edits. As far as evidence submission goes, though (as opposed to workshop proposals and case discussion pages), I think it should be permitted to be able to submit evidence anonymously. But no-one has really agreed with me on that last point yet. Carcharoth (talk) 22:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)