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Jean-Mandé Sigogne

I hadn't really intended to translate it all, but once I got going I thought what the heck and did the lot, with the express intent that another editor could pick out relevant pieces. As I hope I made VERY clear, the translation is very much a first pass. You can probably see faults in process (I don't mean particular errors of translation) and any advice you have like tht I should be willing to hear.

I don't see the harm of preserving the "whole translation" – marked very clearly that it is a rough translation – somewhere in the article's talk page (or as a dangling sub-article).

The two bad traits I notice with myself are:

1. At first not putting things in natural English word order. Articles such as this tend in the French to have what I find to be rather a flowery style with interminable subclauses all back-to-front (from an English point of view) I don't just mean thinks like noun-adjective order which is relatively trivial but that you have to kinda take a deep breath and run at a sentence which necer ends and remember all the qualifying bits along the way before finally ending up with a bump against a noun (or verb). This French style also tends to use synonyms a lot, so e.g. Sigogne becomes the priest, the pastor, the vicar, the curate etc, and this is a bad habit in English, in that people (including the translator) wonder if they are the same person or not. After a while, my brain is kinda running in French and it is only when I come back to it afresh that it sounds like very odd English to me (though the words may be right).
2. Perhaps sticking too literally to the French translation (or, in the alternate, dithering over what word # to choose.), mainly when I know the French word but can't find an exact equivalent in English.
3. Not being able to decide when to remove the foreign-language tags. If one goes too soon the article kinda gets lost to the world. Similarly say the J-M Sigogne article is still marked as being in French, though the simplest solution would be just to cut out the French now, that would seem on the whole counterproductive until the English is more sensible. That being said, there is a small satisfaction when removing the the foreign language tag and if someone else does it (IGF saying "it's not French any more" etc) it's kinda a disappointment after what is often a lot of hard work.

Some good traits I hope are

1. wikifying pretty well i.e. not just translating the plain text but adding links, conversions, infoboxes, categories getting reasonably towards MOS, etc etc.

So I think my general process is like this:

1. Try to get the sense and individual words/phrases translated without worrying too much about word order (or whether the text is worth translating at all), so that one is not constantly reaching for a dictionary.
2. Minimally reorder into more natural English word order, adding, removing and changing words to a suitable level of formality.
3. Wikify the text with e.g. links and conversions.
4. Wikify on a larger scale with e.g. infoboxes, categories, section reordering.
5. Remove tags for foreign language etc, go to PNT saying it is done etc, usually for it just to be deleted as "done" with not the slightest thankyou (I know the PNT ?admins are busy people, but a brief comment saying thanks before it being deleted would mean a lot).

Let me know if you think I could improve this strategy. Of course if one has the original's author and is essentially taking over at the second step of the processauthor, as I did yesterday for Sulysap for example, it's a lot easier since one is essentially a mechanic and someone to bounce their prose off, but once something reaches PNT it is (a) pretty much doomed if it does not get translated and (b) unlikely - though occasional it happens - that the original translator/author is around to ask questions to: which is partly the challenge with PNT I find, and why I perhaps find it more enjoyable than just pulling articles from the translation pages (also, that one simply gets more variety).

I am sorry to make this longer. I should probably work it up into a little essay. I am not saying I am right, and would certainly be glad of any advice or a reply saying how you go about translating; I am just saying that is roughly how I go about it.

So in short, that is why I translated the lot in rough: I can then leave it to other editors to decide which bits are worth translating farther. The only thing I really ask is that the translation is seen for what it is i.e. a very rough first pass, and not unduly criticised as a "bad" translation (which considering how long a "good" translation takes – cf. professional translation rates – nobody can expect in the relatively brief time it takes).

As far as the POV and references etc in J-M S., and that it is to some degree about Acadians not himself, I think we can polish that out, probably, once the translation is more advanced. I probably have a more generous view about it being not about him but the Acadians; it seems fairly closely intertwined. For example, the lead does not mention that he was an exile in london for 7 years, so you have only yourself to blame there (I assume)!

My very best wishes SimonTrew (talk) 07:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

About References and Plot templates

Sorry man, but this templates exist for some reason, and i believe that it is use them in articles that does not have references and has long plot sections. I believe that this templates help to improve wikipedia quality and i believe that is my duty use them.

As you can see, my english its too bad, so i can not help improving articles editing them, but i can help marking those articles.

Be happy.

ElmerHomero (talk) 12:12, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi again man, just to say that i use references template to mark those articles that does not have references about the book, not only about real facts descrided in the text, as its said here. This articles are about books, but in ths articles is not information ABOUT the book itself. I believe that references to the books are required.

Be happy, again :D

ElmerHomero (talk) 12:52, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, i can understand the meter plot parameter now, i will be more careful; but about references, there is no doubt in my mind about how to use it, thanks by the help, be happy. ElmerHomero (talk) 12:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

(We need another way to talk, this is annoying). But what happend with fake book articles?, it is needed references to eliminate them. References about books are important. :P ElmerHomero (talk) 13:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

This guy ElmerHomero is just going thru the sci-fi novel category in reverse alphabetical order, adding his tags. As far as I can see, this is just an effort to generate edit credits on his part. Isn't there some way of siccing the admins on him? Djdaedalus (talk) 14:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

That´s just the point.

Hi man, that is the problem: There are NOT bibliographical data to validate. Where this book was printed? editorial? pages? ISBN? editions? This information is necesary in order to validate the book existence. An amazon link or google books work too. :P

Be happy

ElmerHomero (talk) 14:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

If the lack concerns you, you can supply the information yourself. That would be a more helpful contribution. Any bibliographic data you find should be placed in an infobox like Template:Infobox Book. Amazon or Google should help you. Xanthoxyl 14:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

List of Tibetan writers

Hello - Isn't List of Tibetan writers you created supposed to be a list of important or noteworthy Tibetan writers ~ not a list of minor authors or of lamas who may be noteworthy themselves but not have written anything gernerally considered to be of great significance? Some of the names included in this list (particularly in the 20th century group) have made only minor literary contributions in Tibetan. Others are better known as compilers of others work rather than as original writers. The list probably needs some serious cleaning up or pruning. Also no sources are cited - a list like this needs citations from objective sources.

I also wonder whether Tertons should be included in the list? - It is problematic since they claim their works are not their own but rediscovered works of Padmasambhava. It is also questionable whether "Foreign writers with Tibetan names" should be included if they are not at least ethnically Tibetan or have not written anything in the Tibetan language.

Chris Fynn (talk) 09:13, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Happy Halloween!

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Talk:Climatic Research Unit hacking incident

Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, Climatic Research Unit hacking incident, is on article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.

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