Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hans Adler (talk | contribs) at 17:40, 14 October 2010 (→Climate change: r). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52

This page has archives. Sections older than 4 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Climate change

Announcement

typos and corrections

There are missing spaces between words throughout the case writeup; I hope it's OK that I fixed those I saw. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I can only think the missing spaces are an artefact of cut and paste. Odd though. Dougweller (talk) 17:06, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

One remaining minor typo: Principle 6 (Casting aspersions) records the voting as "Passed X to X" rather than recording the actual vote. — Gavia immer (talk) 17:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

And I meant to search for X, but forgot. On the other hand, seconds after I saved the huge text (I had to do it all at once for the time stamps to be the same), Misplaced Pages almost died on me. I think there's a couple of other minor fixes to make also, nothing that makes any changes though. Dougweller (talk) 17:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

evidence page deletion requirement

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change#Evidence_sub-pages_in_user_space says evidence pages should be deleted or courtesy blanked, while the write up here says they must be deleted: which is it? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The specific remedy takes precedence over the broad principle. They must be deleted.  Roger Davies 16:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I have courtesy blanked past evidence pages on other cases-- is that adequate? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The remedy is case specific but I suppose for other cases it probably would be best practice to delete them  Roger Davies 16:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks again! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:17, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Is this page (User:William_M._Connolley/For_me/Things_people_say) subject to the requirement that it be deleted within 7 days? Could be argued both ways, I suppose. ++Lar: t/c 17:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

commentary on case outcome

A four month case to hand out 6 month bans? That doesn't seem proportionate to me. Either the committee dragged its heels on this unnecessarily, or the punishments are beyond lenient for the evident disruption caused. MickMacNee (talk) 16:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

You must mean protection because Misplaced Pages does not do punishment (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Potato tomato. Although as you point out, taking four months to decide whether a six month protection period is warranted is similarly way out of proportion. MickMacNee (talk) 16:49, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The topic bans are of indefinite length, by the way. NW (Talk) 16:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

No, you can do good work elsewhere and then come back to it in 6 months on appeal. But yes, for people like WMC who clearly don't get it and never will get it, they are as they say, burned. So it's not all bad.... MickMacNee (talk) 16:49, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Just to clarify, what do you mean by "burned"? Cheers, Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)small text added at 17:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC).

Being permanently removed from the topic. MickMacNee (talk) 17:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Then you are simply wrong. The nice thing about the particular ban conditions is that good faith editors with a broad range of interests can take this as a forced vacation from a stressful area and spend half a year enjoying the nicer sides of Misplaced Pages and making new friends there – and maybe learn in the a priori harmless areas why some rules such as WP:AGF make sense. This is something that those editors who are indirectly (through large PR agencies) on the payroll of petrol companies are unlikely to do. Or if they do, it will either make them more easily identifiable (if they concentrate on other customers' interest) or motivate them to make up for the disruption they cause by producing valuable content elsewhere.

I see this as a pragmatic approach to the problem that there is an infinite supply of CC denying sockpuppets but only a finite supply of experts willing to contribute to Misplaced Pages, who are moreover used to academic standards of debate rather than the mud-slinging that comes out of the PR agencies and their front organisations. Hans Adler 17:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

topic ban and bloc neutralization

One aspect of the resolution of this case concerns me, but I did not follow all of the (TLDR) case closely enough to know if my impression is correct. It seems that almost everyone was caught up in the topic bans (noting some exceptions like AWickert, who always edits responsibly and courteously). If everyone involved in dealing with "blocs of editors" who "try to use mere numbers to overrule Wiki's pillars" is caught up in the bans, this would seem to be a deterrent to attempting to neutralize POV articles which are "owned" by collective blocs of editors defending a POV. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

There are a large number of folk who could have been included in the topic bans (if we use the metrics that were used to mete out the ones meted out) but who were not. If they change their ways, all will be well other than the sense of justice about who was named and who was not (but WP doesn't do justice, it is a project, not a system of government or a social experiment). If they don't change their ways, it comes down to whether the new enforcement regime is more sucessful at dealing with them than the old one was. And that in turn, in my view, will hinge on how many admins turn up and how even handed they are. Color me cautiously optimistic. Not the best decision, WMC got off exceedingly lucky to be merely topic banned, but not the worst by far. ++Lar: t/c 17:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

My concern is how this affects other similar cases, particularly when no admins will touch them. I requested 1RR at ANI once, and NW was the only editor to even respond; when you look at the CC mess, that's understandable. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)