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Non-job
Could someone take a look at this little article? I came across it on an unrelated matter but it looks to have some WP:POV and WP:COAT issues. Perhaps someone here would be more qualified than me to bring it up to scratch. Thanks, Clavdia chauchat (talk) 10:46, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- I agree about the WP:POV and WP:COAT problems, and I've removed some assertion that are not supported by the refs. that I can access (I couldn't read the Times one — paywalled.)—A bit iffy (talk) 11:35, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- Cheers! Clavdia chauchat (talk) 12:04, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- Looking at this again, I wonder what the future of the article should be. The concept itself is surely a world-wide one, and for much of human history — not essentially concerning the Brown premiership as some editor(s) have tried to spin it. On the other hand, perhaps a "non-job" is such a nebulous, vague thing that it can't ever be more than a WP:DICDEF and hence can't merit a useful article. Anyone got any thoughts?—A bit iffy (talk) 20:41, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- I disagree – I think the article should be focussed on the social/political phenomenon of the "non-job" as identified in 2000s UK; contextualised, of course. So there would definitely be potential to chart the rise of the term, the settings in which it has been used, any analysis of it as a moniker, and perhaps and studies looking at the existence (or not) of jobs like those at this time. (This reply sounds all rather jargony, I hope you get the idea. I'm not a social scientist, so it isn't deliberate.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:27, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- If the article is to be expanded rather than deleted, it should look at the origins of the term (if they can be found), and use more objective analyses of the term like this that cover its use by highly politicised media as well as politicians. The term "non-job" is a political construct, not something that actually exists. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:34, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- This really does seem guaranteed to produce a biased article particulary as job descriptions are geared more to attract applicants than to educate the public about their purpose. A non-job holder is unlikely to be given the opportunity of self justification. I recommend the article should become a non-article :) JRPG (talk) 21:33, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- I agree now — if the article exists, its focus should be on its usage in UK politics. I have doubts whether the usage merits its own article, but not strong enough to launch an AfD.—A bit iffy (talk) 09:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
- I wrote the article as it's an established term. Just because the term is pejorative doesn't make the article any less valid. We still have "nigger" as an article! Andrewjlockley (talk) 10:48, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
- Just because a politician invents a new pejorative term, it doesn't necessarily mean that we should have an article on it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
- I wrote the article as it's an established term. Just because the term is pejorative doesn't make the article any less valid. We still have "nigger" as an article! Andrewjlockley (talk) 10:48, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
- I agree now — if the article exists, its focus should be on its usage in UK politics. I have doubts whether the usage merits its own article, but not strong enough to launch an AfD.—A bit iffy (talk) 09:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
- This really does seem guaranteed to produce a biased article particulary as job descriptions are geared more to attract applicants than to educate the public about their purpose. A non-job holder is unlikely to be given the opportunity of self justification. I recommend the article should become a non-article :) JRPG (talk) 21:33, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- If the article is to be expanded rather than deleted, it should look at the origins of the term (if they can be found), and use more objective analyses of the term like this that cover its use by highly politicised media as well as politicians. The term "non-job" is a political construct, not something that actually exists. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:34, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- I disagree – I think the article should be focussed on the social/political phenomenon of the "non-job" as identified in 2000s UK; contextualised, of course. So there would definitely be potential to chart the rise of the term, the settings in which it has been used, any analysis of it as a moniker, and perhaps and studies looking at the existence (or not) of jobs like those at this time. (This reply sounds all rather jargony, I hope you get the idea. I'm not a social scientist, so it isn't deliberate.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:27, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- Looking at this again, I wonder what the future of the article should be. The concept itself is surely a world-wide one, and for much of human history — not essentially concerning the Brown premiership as some editor(s) have tried to spin it. On the other hand, perhaps a "non-job" is such a nebulous, vague thing that it can't ever be more than a WP:DICDEF and hence can't merit a useful article. Anyone got any thoughts?—A bit iffy (talk) 20:41, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- Cheers! Clavdia chauchat (talk) 12:04, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Discussion at Talk:Demography_and_politics_of_Northern_Ireland#Requested_move
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Demography_and_politics_of_Northern_Ireland#Requested_move. KarlB (talk) 19:05, 10 July 2012 (UTC)Template:Z48
David Cameron.
Hi all. I wonder if you could pass your expert unbiased eyes over a section I've added in the political commentary section on David Cameron and Lord Ashcroft and also look the talk page. It's a short section in an important article and I'd be grateful for any constructive input. Thanks in eager anticipation. JRPG (talk) 10:43, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
New Supplementary Vote election box template
I didn't think there were enough Election Box formats (!) so I made one for the Supplementary Vote counting system used for English mayoral elections and the forthcoming England and Wales Police and Crime Commissioner elections, 2012. The template is based on the one created for San Francisco mayoral election, 2011.
You can see the box on Mansfield mayoral election, 2011. I have some more features in mind but any comments welcome, especially about the desirability of the bar graphic. Incidentally while looking at these mayoral elections there is some tidying needed as it is difficult to find whether a page exists for any given election, some have voting figures on the page about the position but most don't, etc. Sussexonian (talk) 11:18, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
- Hi Sussexonian. Thanks for doing this. I like the look of the Mansfield box, and importantly how easy the template looks to fill in for regular editors. Has it been tested for parties with and without articles? doktorb words 13:37, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Good article candidate
Hi there. New Labour has been a good article candidate for a little while; I was wondering if anyone could review it for me? Thanks. ItsZippy 14:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Hansard listing for MPs
Lots of the MP pages seem to have Hansard record listed under 'external links'. For example Tom Watson (politician). Is there any standard for putting a link to Hansard in an infobox, and if not can I suggest that it is adopted as a standard? I don't know what the process is for doing that here. Extua (talk) 07:01, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
- I have added Hansard links to thousands of MP articles, and it would be great to have them all linked.
- There are two sources for Hansard:
- Current and recent Hansards (since 1988 for the Commons) are on the Parliament website at http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/
- Hansard from 1803 to 2005 are http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/. This is an experimental site which uses data from the Hansard Digitisation project; it has the advantage of covering a huge period, but the disadvantage of having imperfect indexing.
- So, the question of which to use depends on the period when the MP served. For anyone in Parliament pre-1988, there should be a link to the millbanksystems site, because that's the only on-line record of that period. For anyone in Parliament before 2005, I suggest that those links should be added anyway.
- I would like to recommend adding a link to the Parliament site for MPs since 1988, but Parliament website doesn't seem to have done a good job of indexing. At http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/by-mp/, they seem to have separate indexes for each session, and no combined index.
- There are two templates for adding the Millbanksystems links:
- {{UK MP links}}, which is a general-purpose template for creating lots of external links to websites on MPs, including Millbanksystems. I would recommend use of this template for those whose career as MPs includes the period after 2001. It includes a parameter for linking to the current Hansards, but AFAICS that setup is broken :(
- {{UK MP links}}, which is an older single-purpose template (written by me) for linking to the Millbanksystems. It includes instructions on how to create the link, which are also applicable to the {{UK MP links}} template.
- Hope this helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Stormont template
Hi all. I've been doing some work on underused digital resources, and today produced {{Stormont}}, for linking to the Stormont Papers project (effectively Hansard for Northern Ireland, 1921-72). Hopefully it'll be some use to anyone interested in working on the period. If there's anywhere else you think would be useful to notify people of the template, please circulate it... Andrew Gray (talk) 15:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Amendment requested for 'The Troubles' Arbitration remedies; input welcome
Hi all,
Interested editors are invited to review and comment on a request for amendment to the discretionary sanctions remedy (R5) of the The Troubles Arbitration case.
Regards,
Daniel (talk) 04:15, 19 August 2012 (UTC)