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Talk:Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford

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Unclosed reference tags

Article has numerous unclosed reference tags. Regards, SunCreator 16:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Family background

In the article, a historian should depict the family background of Edward de Vere in more detail. He was the 17th Earl of Oxford, after all, so the line of his ancestry was really very impressive. And his family name de Vere - of course of Norman or even other French origin. These details are not very well known to me, and possibly are interesting for all readers. --Zbrnajsem (talk) 08:43, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Oxford's background and family is covered in the encyclopedia, and it would not be useful to cram all this information into one article. See Category:Earls of Oxford, Category:De Vere family, and the article Earl of Oxford. Feel free to add any reliably-sourced material that meets Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines to any article, including these. Before you do so, I suggest you make yourself familiar with those policies and procedures. Tom Reedy (talk) 15:58, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Screwed up refs

I cannot determine what the problem is with the refs in this article. Beginning at ref 86, the refs don't link to anything, and clicking backward from the cite section the refs go to unpredictable places. Can anybody help find the problem? Thanks. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:01, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Never mind; I found it. Giving up and asking for help seems to be a part of the process for me. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Dedications and literary mentions

They are haphazardly sprinkled through the article in chronological order. I am cutting them and storing them here for a dedicated section to be created later. Tom Reedy (talk) 18:56, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

The next year 1577, John Brooke dedicated an English translation of Guy de Brès' The Staff of Christian Faith to Oxford.

where Gabriel Harvey dedicated his Gratulationes Valdinenses to the Queen. The work consists of four ‘books’, the first addressed to the Queen, the second to Leicester, the third to Lord Burghley, and the fourth to Oxford, Sir Christopher Hatton, and Leicester's nephew Philip Sidney, with whom he would famously quarrel. Harvey's dedication to Oxford is a double-edged criticism, praising his English and Latin verse and prose, yet advising him to 'put away your feeble pen, your bloodless books, your impractical writings'.

During this time, several works were dedicated to Oxford, Geoffrey Gates' Defense of Military Profession and Anthony Munday's Mirror of Mutability in 1579, and John Hester's A Short Discourse . . . of Leonardo Fioravanti, Bolognese, upon Surgery, John Lyly's Euphues and his England, and Anthony Munday's Zelauto in 1580. In the dedication to Zelauto, Munday also mentioned having delivered the now lost Galien of France to Oxford for his 'courteous and gentle perusing'. Both Lyly and Munday were in Oxford's service at the time. In addition, in his A Light Bundle of Lively Discourses Called Churchyard's Charge, and A Pleasant Labyrinth Called Churchyard's Chance, Thomas Churchyard promised to dedicate future works to the Earl. By now he had taken over the Earl of Warwick's playing company, which may have included the famous comedian, Richard Tarleton.

In this troubled period Thomas Watson dedicated his Hekatompathia or Passionate Century of Love to Oxford, noting that the Earl had taken a personal interest in the work.

During this time Anthony Munday dedicated his Primaleon; The First Book to Oxford.

In 1597 Oxford's servant, Henry Lok, published his Ecclesiastes containing a sonnet to Oxford. In his Palladis Tamia, published in 1598, Francis Meres referred to Oxford as one of "the best for Comedy amongst vs".

In 1599 John Farmer dedicated a second book to Oxford, The First Set of English Madrigals, alluding in the dedication to Oxford's own proficiency as a musician. In the same year, George Baker dedicated a second book to Oxford, his Practice of the New and Old Physic, a translation of a work by Conrad Gesner.

  1. Kennedy 2004, p. 169 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFKennedy2004 (help)
  2. Nelson 2003, p. 181 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
  3. Nelson 2003, pp. 237–8 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
  4. Bennell 2004 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFBennell2004 (help)
  5. Nelson 2003, pp. 238, 247 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help); Bergeron 2007 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFBergeron2007 (help)
  6. Nelson 2003, p. 238 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
  7. Nelson 2003, pp. 239, 242 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
  8. Cite error: The named reference Nelson 2003 281–2 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  9. Nelson 2003, p. 382 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help): The actual dedication is lost; the 1619 second edition was dedicated to Oxford's heir, in it Munday mentions "these three several parts of Primaleon of Greece were the tribute of my duty and service' to 'that most noble Earl, your father".
  10. Nelson 2003, pp. 386–7 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
  11. Nelson 2003, pp. 381–2 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
I think one should make a synthetic statement listing the number of dedications (to show de Vere's ranking in the Elizabethan brownnosing-for-favours/patronage stakes), with a couple of mentions, the most distinguished. The article is way too long, and though Oxfordians think this stuff is a supplement to proofs of his literary distinction, hence credentials as an author of Shakespeare, it really doesn't belong in extenso on this page, but to the Oxfordian page.Nishidani (talk) 19:03, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm trying to compile the dedications independently and see which biographer is correct. May said he had 33; Nelson says 28. May also said they were disproportionately literary; Nelson says they were disproportionately translations. May was a not-so-closet Oxfordian at the time he wrote that in 1980, but he was disabused of the idea the more he studied Oxford, hence the dissonance in what he wrote early (which is when he wrote all the extravagant "nobody ever saw anything like it" praise, which he tempered later) and late. Another problem is that so many wrong things have been published about Oxford in reliable sources that one has to make some editorial decisions about who one to follow. (Gurr's statement that Oxford patronised a playing company until he died is one good example; Oxford's Men merged with another troupe in 1602, two years before Oxford kicked it.) Tom Reedy (talk) 03:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Just a question to you, Tom Reedy. With respect to Edward de Vere, you sometimes use rather disrespectful expressions. Like "Oxford kicked it", see three lines above. Does it mean that you dislike him as a person, a historical person? Some of your editings show great knowledge of certain matters, some other ones show your personal bias in connection with EO. --Zbrnajsem (talk) 07:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
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