Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Buster7 (talk | contribs) at 13:59, 14 April 2013 (→A nice warm apple pie for you!: comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Hummingbird

No big deal (: Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:54, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Re: Nichols

Hi. Just to let you know, I didn't think your edit was "wrong". You were just going by the source. After doing a little digging, I realized that there seems to be some discrepancies on the subject's year of birth. I don't feel like rewriting the article and looking up sources, etc. right now so I just changed the text for the time being. Pinkadelica 06:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Sure, I wasn't taking it as a personal rebuke. Not a problem. I just felt bad about making something wrong. Coretheapple (talk) 06:33, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Coretheapple, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Simplified Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! - David Biddulph (talk) 19:14, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Brands

Thanks for joining the new project, and happy editing! Northamerica1000 17:44, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

2013

How many more hoaxes?

You ask "How many more hoaxes are out there on Misplaced Pages?" See Misplaced Pages:List of hoaxes on Misplaced Pages. — fnielsen (talk) 12:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I guess one can estimate how many hoaxes there are from how many becomes discovered and described. But the number depends on how large a hoax is. Minor hoaxes may simply be thought of as ordinary vandalism and reverted without being described any further. — fnielsen (talk) 11:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback: confusing policies and guidelines @ User talk:Ahnoneemoos

—Ahnoneemoos (talk) 20:28, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

—Ahnoneemoos (talk) 21:20, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for visiting the Teahouse

Discussion at WP Brands – Lists compiled for project banner tagging using AnomieBOT

A discussion is occurring at the talk page for WikiProject Brands at Proceeding with automatic project banner tagging using AnomieBOT regarding moving forward with automatic talk page tagging with the project's banner using AnomieBOT. All members of this project will be notified with neutrally-worded notifications about this discussion, and please feel free to contribute to it. Northamerica1000 17:14, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Welcome

Hello, Coretheapple! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Misplaced Pages. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Misplaced Pages, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! TheOriginalSoni (talk) 20:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC) Getting Started The five pillars of Misplaced Pages • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Misplaced Pages is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Eizengrupen in Egypt

I've seen you talked about Eizengrupen in egypt and you did not have a WS:RS source, I found one http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/studies/vol35/Mallmann-Cuppers2.pdf that I as I understand is a credible source.109.226.53.18 (talk) 12:48, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. What is the citation for that source? Coretheapple (talk) 17:11, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

I have no Idea what that even mean (citation for a source) sorry 109.226.53.18 (talk) 17:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Also I found this which I think is the same pdf but in a bigger book — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.226.53.18 (talk) 18:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. You can add these sources yourself, if you wish, as my expertise in this area is limited. Coretheapple (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

The Teahouse Turns One!

It's been an exciting year for the Teahouse and you were a part of it. Thanks so much for visiting, asking questions, sharing answers, being friendly and helpful, and just keeping Teahouse an awesome place. You can read more about the impact we're having and the reflections of other guests and hosts like you. Please come by the Teahouse to celebrate with us, and enjoy this sparkly cupcake badge as our way of saying thank you. And, Happy Birthday!

	Teahouse First Birthday Badge
	Awarded to everyone who participated in the Misplaced Pages Teahouse during its first year! To celebrate the many hosts and guests we've met and the nearly 2000 questions asked and answered during this excellent first year, we're giving out this tasty cupcake badge. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges

--Ocaasi and the rest of the Teahouse Team 22:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Coretheapple (talk) 22:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Getting Started

Hi Coretheapple. I noticed a bit ago that you saw Special:GettingStarted and had some comments on it. I work on this feature as part of the Wikimedia Foundation's engineering department, and I wonder if you might have some time later this week to talk about it in more detail. As you know the target audience is complete newcomers to the encyclopedia, but I'd love to hear more about what you like, don't like etc. about the tool. Preferably we could talk via something more real time than talk pages, so it's less like an interview ;), but whatever medium you're most comfortable with is fine. Have a good day, Steven Walling (WMF) • talk 18:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello Steven. I don't recall making any comments on it, but I do like "Getting Started." I like to use it when I'm in the mood to do some tidying up of an article at random. My only concern is that people using it get a tag on their edit "new editor getting started" which is not always accurate and is a kind of scarlet letter. If you have any more questions you can ask them here and I can respond here or on your page. Coretheapple (talk) 18:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I just meant that I visited your user page after seeing your GettingStarted edit awhile back (since most newbies just are redlinked, it stood out) and saw your notes about it there. Thanks for the feedback about the edit tag. Maybe we can turn it off after you're autoconfirmed (which is 10 edits and four days), or something. Steven Walling (WMF) • talk 22:25, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I'm long since autoconfirmed. Coretheapple (talk) 22:57, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Cool. In this case, "turn it off after you're autoconfirmed" means turning it off at that point for everyone. :) Steven Walling (WMF) • talk 00:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Heh. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant once I was autoconfirmed. Coretheapple (talk) 01:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

hi

OY we started working on this article at the same time! i was drafting a dramatic reorganization based on formulation .... currently the article is all a jumble, where toxicities are attributed to the wrong formulations. BUT I had an edit conflict with you and LOST all my work. . Argh! I will step away while you are working, but would you pop me a note when you are done? Thanks! Jytdog (talk) 21:56, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Made my changes... hope you like them!Jytdog (talk) 00:20, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, much more logically organized now. Well done! Thanks. Coretheapple (talk) 13:14, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

oh!

just had that discussion settled down (i think) on BP talk... so surprised to see you adding more fuel to the fire when you have been complaining that it is not productive! argh. Jytdog (talk) 20:29, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't know I was doing that. I thought that it had some relation to content? I didn't want to be silent on the merits, you see. Coretheapple (talk) 20:36, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

strategy... confusion

I don't understand your strategy, on a few levels. You are clearly interested in getting more negative stories into the article -- especially as per your last edit note, and you are clearly trying to get people to focus their energy on that. But to be honest it seems to me that you keep doing things to undermine that goal. If the pro-BP people don't like the section on the COI controversy, why would you fight that battle for them? Especially when you have spent on a ton of energy on the Talk page discussing COI issues... And if you think a section is a waste of time, why comment on it? And really most importantly, when the pro-BP people keep throwing the work back on you, why do you accept that, and not demand that they produce sources that refute you? It is a little hard to watch... if what you indeed want is more content on "bad things", my suggestion is to draft content, with really excellent sources that cannot be shot down, and write the content carefully with a NPOV, and then just add it to the article. IF it gets reverted, then go to Talk and ask for reasons for the reversions, and put the work on the reverters. This follows WP:BRD and I think is a much more effective way to get movement on a page. Just my 2 cents. Jytdog (talk) 16:25, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

"If the pro-BP people don't like the section on the COI controversy, why would you fight that battle for them?" Because my feeling (which is wavering as I write this) was that they're right, that the stuff on Misplaced Pages was too "inside baseball," too picayune in the overall scheme of things, when compared to the environmental rampages that have made BP a symbol of a company that despoils the environment. However, I won't contest inclusion further, and on further thought i probably would favor inclusion if it comes to a discussion.

I don't have a "strategy" at all. I'm not "anti-BP" and trying to get more "bad things" in the article and I hope you don't either. I do think the article is skewed pro-BP, but the problem is that the environmental disasters and legal consequences are downplayed. That should be the focus of editor efforts, IMHO. By the way, i don't understand "when the pro-BP people keep throwing the work back on you, why do you accept that, and not demand that they produce sources that refute you?" I don't know what that's referring to.

I'm not an environmentalist and have little background or interest in BP. However, as you may have observed if you've perused my contributions, I became interested in this article from the BP coverage in the papers and am incredibly concerned about COI. Our mutual involvement in Hydroxycut appears to be an actual coincidence, however. I did read something about that on a noticeboard, but the presence of COI editor there is pure coincidence. Coretheapple (talk) 16:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you are 'anti-BP' - I was only talking about the kind of content you appear to want to get into the article, as per your own words. With respect to you saying "I don't have a strategy" -- I am kind of suggesting that you be more strategic! We all have limited time, and we all want to use our time well. But here is what I mean. I have read the Talk page carefully, not just for the content but for the dynamic. And the dynamic that I see is that the pro-BP editors are very good at appearing authoritative and making demands - some of which are ridiculous - this dif in particular was an extreme version of what they do: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:BP&curid=947750&diff=548268505&oldid=548241595 That comment is really absurd, and the point is to bury you with work and distraction that is irrelevant to the content you want to add to this article. That is what several of them do over and over again, usually in more subtle ways. It is a useful strategy for keeping content out of an article and keeping the ones who want to introduce it distracted. I don't use it but I have seen others do it. I would not call this "bad faith" at this point - I would say that they are working hard to make the article great, in their eyes, and to keep it great. We all want to make it great. There are just different visions of great. and btw, the reason I think the whole COI thing is silly, is that if there is a problem it is not Arturo, but rather the editors who are working so successfully to exclude negative information from the BP article. Arturo has done nothing wrong, and the discussion of COI is a red herring - a distraction from the real issue, which comes down to working things out in Talk with other editors. Jytdog (talk) 16:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Rest assured that nobody is going to give me work, and I totally see and am "on to" what you describe. I have wasted far, far too much time on Misplaced Pages in recent days, and I think that you are going to find me totally absent going forward for the simple reason that I'm not a paid editor, it's not my job to edit here. I couldn't disagree wit you more on COI. I think that's the central issue. Were it not for rules, editors, projects and top administrators that openly abet and facilitate PR activity on Misplaced Pages, the kind of mess that you see in BP and in other articles would not be happening. I am appalled how PR has worked its way into Misplaced Pages, but as you will be finding in coming days, unlike them I am not paid to impact upon them or their clients, so I am going to have to take a brief sabbatical. I am surprised that Misplaced Pages doesn't get more of a knock than it's getting. It certainly deserves one. Coretheapple (talk) 17:08, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

You should look at http://en.wikipedia.org/User:SlimVirgin/Ghostwriting#Concerns_raised I am at the moment the primary author of that section in a proposed essay on ghostwriting. Your input in that essay is welcome. Coretheapple (talk) 17:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Crazy - arturo did nothing wrong - the guy is squeaky clean! How can you call this COI, when the guy with the COI has done nothing wrong? Totally confusing to me. You all could simply ignore his requests (which would not be very nice, but you could do it) - it is the pro-BP wikipedia editors who put his stuff in the article. I understand that you are upset, but I don't understand your reasoning. Can you explain to me what Arturo has done wrong? Or do some of the pro-BP editors have a COI that I am not aware of? Jytdog (talk) 17:19, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Did I say he did something wrong? I'm talking about a process and a culture at Misplaced Pages that allows COI editors to inhabit and in some cases drive discussion on talk pages. Read the COI board discussion and that essay I've linked to. Coretheapple (talk) 17:25, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I know you are trying to get away. Just wanted to make a final note. first, thank you tolerating my getting all meta with you and on the Talk page. You could say "go to hell" and you haven't, so thank you. Second, and here I go again, I really hope you think about being more strategic. If you think a bit, you will see that it is really obvious, that if you describe what you intend to do using inflammatory language, the people whom you know are on the other side from you are primed to hate whatever you end up writing and are more likely to actually look for ways to kill it. Right? And your chances of having a successful negotiation with them are harmed, before you even start. You keep shooting yourself in the foot with that kind of stuff, and I hate to see it. Anyway, good luck with your taxes! Jytdog (talk) 21:18, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Well thank you. I actually was becoming a bit concerned about the tone of some of your posts, which, ironically considering your message, had the opposite effect of what you intended. Nevertheless, I disagree. I do not believe that cordiality is going to win the day here. Civility, yes, I'm a stickler for that. But I happen to believe that it is necessary to be direct in the BP situation. I don't believe that even the most friendly kind of schmoozing is going to result in an improvement of the article when there are WP:OWN tactics employed with such heavy-handedness. Certainly Gandydancer is as pleasant and congenial an editor as I've encountered, and he or she has been trampled upon.

At the same time, while you're being pleasant with pro-BP editors, you were also edit-warring with them over the Misplaced Pages subsection, which I supported but which was doomed to fail because their position had merit. However, when placed in a larger section, as I did, it was unassailable. So, speaking of "strategy," I don't think my approach has been all that bad. Lastly, please stop with the "be calm" shtick, as I am calm and you're being annoying and condescending, and saying that repeatedly only has the effect of making me uncalm. Now I'll see if I can get away. If I succeed in doing so, I may not be around for a week or so, if I fail, I'll be back in a few seconds. Let's see! Coretheapple (talk) 21:27, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Credit where credit is due, your creating the wider-aimed section was genius. And strategic. I agree. And I will stop saying "be calm". I finally had time to actually read the section that you created and I am going to do a bunch of editing on it. It is too focused on the DWH case and is danger of getting actually getting crushed for UNDUE because of that focus. Will broaden it out tonight. Have a great day! Jytdog (talk) 21:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC) (copyedited this comment some hours later. Jytdog (talk) 01:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC))

A nice warm apple pie for you!

	First place winner of the 2013 Misplaced Pages apple coring contest!!!
	It is so good to work with you at the BP article. I hope you stick around. Gandydancer (talk) 15:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Esprit de Corps

Do me a favor. Notice the short history of Arturo's April 8th request for changes. No one responded right away. I put up a bit of a roadblock, requesting the  Done tag be used. When, again, no one responded, I decided I would vet and investigate and add them myself. But first I gave each of Arturo's requests it's own thread so that we would have a concise trail of edits and conversation for each of eight seperate change requests. Before, when Arturo made change requests, there was little or no conversation, no management of the change requests, no concern for an accurate report on what was done and by who. So...I decided to manage this 4/8 request and I was actually quite proud of the result. There is no jumbled mess of a conversation. Everything is seperate and easy to follow. Editors are not tripping over each others words. I think I created a proper guideline for future "tweeking" of the article by Arturo and a guideline for paid-editor v volunteer editor collaboration. And I don't take kindly to you saying my efforts were/are not important. As many months as you have been editing, I have been editing for years. As other editors have pointed out to you, it might be a good idea to notice who is in your corner and not bite them. ```Buster Seven Talk 13:59, 14 April 2013 (UTC)