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Pramukh Swami

Added Pramukh Swami Maharaj name in introduction paragraph, as he is identified with this faith today. wildT (talk) 07:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed

I have added some infomation regarding the background it should stay here because its all facts and relevent links to this sect.

I have added a disputed tag to this article, because it is not written from a neutral point of view. I will try to re-work the content into an form that is acceptable for the wikipedia. --Goethean 22:45, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please do. It's beyond me. Also, there is an editor who apparently disles this group and has both added obscurely disparaging remarks about this group, and has repeatedly removed references to it from another article, Swaminarayan. -Willmcw 02:09, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

Changed. --goethean ॐ 7 July 2005 21:07 (UTC)

I fail to see how a "conference paper" can be accepted as fact. It is extremely biased to use one person's opinion on a matter and represent them as fact. Presenting information in this manner does not promote neutrality, it promotes misinformation and propoganda.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.85.91.178 (talk • contribs) 12:07, 28 October 2005.

The article doesn't accept the paper as fact. The article merely mentions that the paper exists. — goethean ॐ 17:10, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

The paper itself is not relevant to the faith, yet you present it as part of the article. I have read other various articles about on religion(ie Islam, Christianity, etc.) on wikipedia and in these articles they do not present any "conference papers" or political ties inside the article themselves. In the article on Christianity I do not see links to papers on thier ties to the Republican Party. On articles on Islam I do not see paper or link on thier ties to extremist militant groups. I therefore conclude that political ties whether true or not should not be represented in the article to offer a neutral opinion. How come this article is bieng held as an exception and places information in the Article based solely on a single "paper"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.85.91.178 (talk • contribs) 12:33, 28 October 2005.

That's a false analogy, because BAPS does not equal Hinduism. Nor, for that matter is it a seperate world religion on the scale of Islam or Christianity. And in the article on Evangelicalism, one does find a discussion of its politics. — goethean ॐ 17:44, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Aside from this paper which I cannot find on the internet and therefore cannot reference, I did not find any well documentated evidence of the claims made by this person and her paper. So I belive what you wrote in this Article is based on your opinion of what BAPS represents and what information you would like to include and exclude.

Please assume good faith. From the article history, it looks like the link stopped working, and someone removed it. I will attempt to find bibliographic data for the paper. — goethean ॐ 18:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

With all do respect, you had ample time to find the source material related to the point of view expressed in the "BAPS in Gujurat" section. In the interest of fairness, since the source is missing and no longer available, the information should be removed.

Is there some reason that we doubt the truthfulness of the summary that we have in the article? If you are the same editor as user:68.85.91.178 then you've already reviewed it before. We are we deleting it? -Will Beback 03:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Its not that I doubt the truthfulness. There are several questions here that are unanswered and despite any resolution to those questions, the article is bieng presented as factual. Some things I feel should be addressed is: Is it appropriate to make a statement or a summary based on a single article without verifying the information with another source? Is it appropriate to present material in which the source can not be referenced by others to review? If the article is availble for review, which it has not been for quite some times, does the article properly justify its conclusions and properly cite the credible sources for those justifications? So until these questions can be addressed I dont feel we should present the material/summary(in "BAPS in Gujurat") in the BAPS article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.81.18.53 (talk • contribs) .

So, then, is your point that information which is presented as factual but doesn't have multiple listed references should be deleted? That's about half of the article. Including:

• BAPS is a branch of the Hindu Swaminarayan sect with more than 1,000,000 followers worldwide and a greater presence outside South Asia than any other Hindu group.
• According to his followers, Pramukh Swami Maharaj represents the essence of Hinduism, leading an austere life of complete celibacy, without personal wealth or comfort. His compassion for humanity, universal wisdom and striking simplicity have touched many world religious and national leaders as well as ordinary devotees alike.
• Part of BAPS' success lies in its approach, which is characteristic of other monotheistic religions — namely their centralization and huge organizational strength, their emphasis on community, their notions of salvation through belief in Sahajanand Swami Maharaj (Lord Swaminarayan) as the supreme Lord, adherence to strict doctrine, and even trace elements of proselytization. Many mainstream Hindus find themselves attracted to this and start identifying with BAPS. Although some see only minor theological implications in such a conversion, others see the doctrinal differences as quite distinct. The fact that BAPS devotees worship Swaminayaran Bhagwan as higher than Sri Ram or Sri Krishna is quite alarming to most traditional Hindus.

I'm all for removing unsourced info. But don't set the bar too high or there won't be any article. Will Beback 02:22, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Your second bullet as well as parts of the third bullet above can be cross-referenced through the oragization's website. I would agree with removing the rest of the material above. I would like to point out that the organization(BAPS) should have a say as to what is factual about thier own establishement and beliefs. Im not sure if this classifies as a false analogy but for example the Pope would have more authority about whats factual about how the Catholic church operates and the church's beliefs than a college student writing a thesis paper. In any case, Its not possible to cross-reference any of the material in the "BAPS in Gujurat", so I feel that should also be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.81.18.53 (talk • contribs) .

...the organization(BAPS) should have a say as to what is factual about thier own establishement and beliefs.

That's an absurd idea. Misplaced Pages documents both positive and negative aspects of all organizations, including Roman Catholicism, Evangelical Protestantism, Theosophy and gurus such as Sathya Sai Baba. These organizations neither have authority over Misplaced Pages's content, nor do they offer infallible documentation of their organization. Misplaced Pages presents BAPS's perspective on itself, but it also presents other perspectives on BAPS. Taking any other course would be to allow Misplaced Pages to be censored and would virtually be the end of Misplaced Pages. If you want an article that presents BAPS in only a favorable light, then start your own wiki. — goethean ॐ 15:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Well that is certainly your opinion. Also I never said any organization has authority over a Misplaced Pages article. The material presented on a wikipedia article should be neutral. But I think it would be improper just to throw information into an article which cannot be cross-referenced or be verified in anyway in order to create a false sense of neutrality. And in order to be fair, I did say that we should also remove some of the content referenced in the bullets by Will. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.81.18.53 (talk • contribs) .

• This really isn't the place for critiques, I don't see critiques of the roman catholic church in the article on catholocism, it would be better if it was placed in the article on hindu nationalism

Reply: There are many article on Roman Catholicsm, including several entire articles of criticism, such as Roman Catholic sex abuse cases, even a whole category, Category:Anti-Catholicism. While it perhaps should also be mentioned in Hindu nationalism, that doesn't mean it should be remoevd from here. -Will Beback 07:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

External links

Why are these websites:

• Mahant Swami
• Kakaji

constantly being removed without comment? Is there something objectionable about them? -Will Beback 22:39, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Those sites are most likely bieng removed by some member of the sect. I have been told that those sites do not offer any relevant material about BAPS and are not acknowledged on the BAPS website. Those sites merely reference BAPS and are not associated with the organization.

Thanks for the coutesy of a reply. Whoever you are in contact with, please tell them that when editing Misplaced Pages we have certain policies, one of which is explaining one's edits, especially deletions. Being "acknowledged on the BAPS website" is not a criteria for inclusion here. Your other points are more relevant. -Will Beback 01:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Beback, that you right. Being on the BAPS website is not a valid reason but let me give you the real reason. These links are being removed by the members of sect because both links refer to groups that are not a part of BAPS. The Mahant Swami page is created by a group of people who believe a monk of BAPS, Mahant Swami, to be their guru and spiritual head. As the BAPS website and the BAPS wikipedia article both state, BAPS has only one guru and spiritual leader - that is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. The Mahant Swami page is most relevant in an article about the Mahant Swami group but not fair representation under a BAPS article. The Kakaji link is also deleted because it refers to a group that was excommunicated from the BAPS in the 1960's and so again it is not right to put the link here because visitors would confuse the group with BAPS and the link does not clarify that point.

Hello,

I added some links to other Misplaced Pages articles relating to BAPS (i.e: The article on Pramukh Swami Maharaj, and the article on the Neasden Temple). Hope I've put this comment in the right place!! Dylanpatel 12:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Why do Bapsy Babe alwasy try to consider them selfs as a part of the Swaminarayan Faith, they broke all connection with the original swaminarayan faith a long time ago and now are a splinter group please refrain from using the name Swaminarayan you are Akshar Puthsotham 86.135.188.165 15:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Also while I am on the subject I think its only fair to tell you that the BAPS lost a court case against the Original Swaminarayan faith to use the Swaminarayan Name in any of their Mandirs and centres please obide by this and dont use it.

- The decision by the Gujarat State Court in the early mid 1900's you refer to was appealed against, and the ruling was quashed by the Supreme Court. If BAPS really were using the name 'Swaminarayan' illegaly, do you not think much more would be done about it given the status BAPS holds internationally?

Move to <full form of BAPS>-2006-09-19T09:30:00.000Z">

Shouldn't this be moved to Bochasanwasi Shri Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha (with a redirect from BAPS, of course), as per WP:NCA#Acronyms as words in article titles ? --Kprateek88 09:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)"> ">

• I think thats a good suggestion, my only question is whether or not BAPS is known to most people as Bochasanwasi Shri Akshar Puruthottsam Swaminarayan Sanstha. WP:NCA#Acronyms as words in article titles says "Avoid the use of acronyms in page naming unless the term you are naming is almost exclusively known by its acronyms and is widely known and used in that form (NASA, SETI, and radar are good examples)." Whilst members of BAPS would know what the acronym stands for, I'm quite certain that most others who know of BAPS do not know it as the full title. Saying that, it certainly wouldn't hurt to list BAPS under a page with the full title.

Suggested Edit

Please find below a suggested edit of this page. It removes all POVs I could see and expands other areas. Any suggestions? The layout is obviously not right, I removed as much formatting as possible so it would be easy to view here in 'Discussion' 86.134.109.197 17:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

• moved to Talk:BAPS/draft

Unfortunately I dont see how this shlok clears up the issue. There are various shloks in the shikshapatri that followers of the Ahmedabad and Vadtal Gadi do not adhere to. Take shlok 136 for example:

"They shall never remain in a secluded place even with their mother, sisters, or daughters (who may be of young age), except in the strictest emergencies, and shall never give away their wives to anybody."

Can you tell me that each and every man who says he belongs to the Ahmedabad and Vadtal Gadi has never been in a room alone with either his mother, sister, or daughter? Whilst I am not by anymeans questioning the authority of the Shikshapatri, I must point out that by your standards, the majority of people who call themselves Swaminarayan are actually excomunicated because they have not followed the above rules.

May I also point out shlokas 153 and 154:

"When facing natural disaster, famine, or harassment from enemies or rulers, which may result in loss of prestige, property, or life, my followers shall move away without hesitation and migrate to some other place where they can live in peace." and "My followers who are wise and discreet shall immediately leave that place even if it is their birthplace, the place of their livelihood, or an inherited estate."

It was because of these very shloks that Shastri Yagnapurushdas left Vadtal. So, infact, he was following the Shikshapatri by leaving.

Naturally you'll still edit the article. Somebody else with revert it. Somebody else will edit it. Somebody else will revert it. The issues Ahmedabad and Vadtal Gadi have with BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha are not going to be resolved on Misplaced Pages. I do hope everybody understands that. Dylanpatel 15:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I don't wish to enter into a debate here on Misplaced Pages. I will, however, say this: Your above argument is based entirely on the assumption that a) Ahmedabad and Vadtal Gadi followers all strive to follow the Shikshapatri and b) all followers of BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha do not. Yes, your position as a follower of the Ahmedabad/Vadtal Gadi grants you the perogative to speak on behalf of your satsangis somewhat, but without being a BAPS follower there is no way whatsoever that you can claim BAPS followers do not strive to follow the Shikshapatri. Any comments to that effect are clearly biased. I could just as easily claim devotees of the Ahmedabad and Vadtal Gadi's are vimookh because they dont follow the commandmants of the Vachanamrut. That, however, would be a gross generalisation, and probably not true. Just as your comment was. For the record, the reason for not wanting to enter into a debate isn't because I 'know I can't win' or other such nonsense. It's simply because I dont believe this is the right place for such discussion. I don't wish to speak on behalf of a million BAPS followers. I just thought I'd clear that up before comments were made.

Regards,

Dylanpatel 11:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Jay Swaminarayan

BAPS is a sect of the Swaminarayan faith and it's the largest and fastest growing branch.

Translation of BAPS

There seems to be some disagreement about whether the current translation of Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha is correct, or even necessary. I personally don't think it is needed, however if it is decided that it is, I don't feel the current translation is correct. I would translate it as the following:

The Akshar-Purushottam Swaminarayan Organisation of Bochasan, with 'Akshar-Purushottam' reffering to the name of the deities of the sect, and the name of the philosophy that the sect is based upon. Dylanpatel 19:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I DO think it should translated, otherwise, who knows what means? But otherwise you do have a point in your second paragraph and I'll make a change shortly and we can work it out. Tuncrypt 22:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I have a quick question about the use of Swaminarayan in BAPS...does BAPS not stand for Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Sanstha. I am confused with the inclusion of Swaminarayan in the title. Could someone please address this. Also if there is a citation for this particular issue, please include in your reply.--71.252.141.47 00:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)Sona

A quick look at the bottom of the BAPS homepage will show that the official name of the organisation is "Bochasanwasi Shri Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha" I think BAPS decided 'BAPS' would be more memorable and reable than 'BSAPSS' (A common practice by organisations/companies etc) Dylanpatel 21:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Restructure

I propose the following changes to this article in an attempt to restructure this article to Misplaced Pages standards.

1. Expand the Religion & Spiritual section to provide claims for existence - combine Title section; possible rename to Philosophy?
2. Create new article for BAPS Care International
3. Remove redundancies in terms of links

Feedback? Moksha88 20:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, Moksha88. Someone had organized the list of centers into a table, which looked much better, but it seems to be back to the lengthy list format again. You know how to organize it into three / four columns? wildT 13:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly but your help is greatly appreciated! Moksha88 20:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah -- the article, and you, are hopelessly slanted. The opposing POV in this paper should also be addressed: namely, that instead of "Promote harmony and peaceful coexistence among all communities through understanding and co-operation", BAPS has endorsed the Hindutva movement and all the slaughter that has implied, eg. the Ayodhya thing. Jpatokal 10:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the article link, Jpatokal. You might want to consider that BAPS *actively* promoted peace after the terrorist attack on their akshardham templ which killed 30+ people. Had they not done so, riots could have happened on a larger scale across the country. The article you mention looks like an academic one but reads hopelessly like a POV one. It would probably not qualify for being a Misplaced Pages artcle! Just one of the articles on this peaceful response is here. wildT 12:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Great. So please add the article's view, and then the opposing view from Tribune, and then both will be represented. Jpatokal 08:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Reverting vandal edit

Have restored plain text from earlier version - after a vandal had removed the text and photo from 'Spiritual Guru' section. Hope someone can improve this back to the previous version with hyperlinks and the photo of the guru. wildT 18:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

AKA BAPA

Don't keep putting this on. Its pointless.    Juthani1    15:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Bochasanwasi Shri Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Bochasanwasi Shri Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "UN":

• From Pramukh Swami Maharaj: "Pramukh Swami at the UN". IndianExpress.com. 2000-09-11. Retrieved 2008-01-15.
• From India: "India and the United Nations". Retrieved 2006-04-22.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 07:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Distinguishing Beliefs

BAPS has distinguishing beliefs than many other sansthas (branches) in the Swaminarayan sect do not have. One of which is a spiritual guru (teacher) that leads all in the present time and that takes jivas (souls) to Akshardham (heaven). People that go to BAPS have worshiped other gurus as well from the past. The order from earliest to present: Swaminarayan (lord), Gunatitanand Swami (also known as Akshar; is the abode of Swaminarayan hence the name Akshardham), Bhagatji Maharaj, Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj, and finally the present guru Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Another distinguishing belief from the BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha is of Akshar-Purushottam. This doctrine states that Akshar is the abode, and Purushottam is the lord, thus one has to worship Purushottam to go to Akshar. Many sansthas of the past criticized this belief. The people of BAPS also believe that the present guru is like a helping hand to go to Akshardham, thus they stress the need of the worship of the guru. --Kpsthakkar (talk) 00:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The Akshar Purushottam Upasana Article outlines some of these beliefs. Its in the article. I think this info that you want to add is realted to this article. Tjis article is mainly about the organization itself. The other article talks about the beliefs World 20:24, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

BAPS Excommunication

Moved here From talk page of User:AroundTheGlobe and User:World (as it is pertinent to this article)

Interesting addition to the information below - in the same reference book (Williams), the sentence about Yagnapurushdas leaving the Vadtal sansthan is followed by this : "It may well be that the immorality of the acharya . . . created a condition that caused Yagnapurushdas to leave the temple." That doesnt sound like an excommunication to me. Again, this is a matter for discussion - User:Around the Globe and User:World, you're senior to me in terms of editing these pages, so I'll wait for your response. Hope to get your response in a week. Thanks. wildT (talk) 06:29, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

We have gone over this several times now! Per earlier discussions, this was moved off Swaminarayan and retained on BAPS and Sampraday pages. It is a major point that commands a mention on these pages. Had the excommunicated not occurred there may not have been a BAPS today. There was definite official excommunication - refer to the Raymond Williams as neutral reference. Its been added on a few times and mysteriously disappears some time later - I wonder if someone is trying to hide facts. Around The Globe 08:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)Shastriji

It is all about WP:NPOV, I completely agree. However, every fact or statement on Misplaced Pages needs to be directly supported by preferablly a 3rd party source. By verification, I meant that I wanted a citation directly citing that BAPS was excommunicated. BAPS (or BSS) was created due to a dispute over the Akshar Purushottam Upasana. Certain people wanted the group excommunicated, but I wanted verification that it happened on an official basis. World 15:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I think we both will accept Raymond Williams as a 3rd party reliable source - his book states Sadhus who went on to form BAPS were excommunicated - and it was definetly official (in fact there was a court order restraining BAPS sadhus from preaching at Sampraday temples or even entering them, this would not have been possible without excommunication). Around The Globe 09:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The editor (from the edits, I'm unsure of the exact stance of the editor) from the edit summary appears to see the addition as controversial. I guess we just need to wait for the editor to actually discuss the topic. World 17:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Just because something is controversial we do not need to keep it out - all we need to do is remain NPOV. As you said, if anyone has any objections they should raise them here. Around The Globe 06:41, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

My understanding of the separation is that Shastri Yagnapurushdas left the Vadtal (older) sanstha, to form a new one because he had philosophical differences about the interpretation of Swaminarayan's teachings and how they should be presented in the temples. It is after his leaving, that there was a legal case filed, as a part of which the older sanstha had to 'excommunicate' him to make their case. User:Around the globe and User:World, do you think we should add this information here? Currently it looks as if he was simply ejected from the older temple, which doesnt seem true, from my studies. wildT (talk) 18:13, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes it would be a good idea to expand it - gives a better view of what happened. Just a small correction there - excommunication was announced by the Acharya and then the legal case filed to stop BAPS sadhus from preaching at Sampraday temples (they were restrained from doing so by the court order). The excommunication was essential to stop them from preaching at Sampraday temples - although they left Vadtal, they continued to go to smaller Sampraday temples in villages and preach there - which was stopped by the court. Any other views? Around The Globe 05:33, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Trying to search for a reference for this. Any good source other than Raymond Williams' book? wildT (talk) 15:11, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Off hand I can only think of Bochasan Bandh, a Vadtal Mandir publication written by the Swami who fought and won the case restraining BAPS sadhus from preaching at Sampraday temples (and at that time got BSS changed to BAPS dropping Swaminarayan, which was later overruled by the Supreme Court on right to religion grounds). However, that is POV and as such I would not like to use that as a ref. The Williams books are the most indepth neutral resource presently avaialable. There may be others, not had a check. Around The Globe 06:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks - would be interesting to read the Bochasan Bandh, but I guess that'll have to wait until after my exams. Will scout around for Williams' book - I thought I had a copy but couldnt find it yesterday. wildT (talk) 07:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Excommunication

Dr. Raymond Williams (the source used to support the idea that Shastri Yagnapurush was excommunicated) in his book A New Face of Hinduism states that a lower court found that Sadhu Yagnapurushdas and others were excommunicated (Pg. 57). However, Dr. Williams continues that the higher court overturned that decision. In fact, the higher court stated, "The laws of natural justice have clearly been broken in these proceedings and I have no hesitation in holding that as far as the law courts are concerned they would not recognize the excommunication of defendant No. and would not deprive him of his rights to property on the grounds of that excommunication" The higher court, which takes precedence, relied on Sadhu Yagnapurushdas' affidavit to declare that the BAPS sadhus did not have a right to stay on Vadtal properties since they had "seceded", not excommunicated. Secede is defined in Merriam Webster as "to withdraw from an organization". Therefore,the legal conclusion, as stated by Dr. Williams, is that Sadhu Yagnapurushdas and the others left Vadtal Gadi - not excommunicated. World 02:33, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

• Good point, strong reference. Then I think we should change the excommunication reference to a secession one. As a regular contributor, should also get Around The Globe's views. What do you say, Globe? I have been trying to get my hands on a copy of Williams book but it seems World beat me to it. wildT (talk) 05:06, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

That is the legal conclusion of that case. There was thereafter a case that went againt BAPS which uplheld the post-hoc excommunication. Give me some time, I will get the exact ref. Around The Globe 07:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Off hand, Im posting something from an archive discussion on Talk:Swaminarayan Sampraday on a similar topic by user Haribhagat in 2007:

Hi Sfacets, yes i have a source, by the name of Raymond Brady Williams who wrote 'An Introduction to Swaminarayan Hinduism' - (http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Swaminarayan-Hinduism-Religion/dp/052165422X/sr=8-1/qid=1167676559/ref=sr_1_1/002-8895366-1552051?ie=UTF8&s=books)

I will paste a chunk from the book, chapter 2 - Growth, administration and schism (page 54).

"The split came when Swami Yagnapurush (AD 1865-1951), commonly called Shastri Maharaj , left Vadtal temple in 1906 and was expelled from the fellowship from the hastily called meeting of the sadhus. He left to establish his own group with a few ascetics and a small number of householders who supported him".

There are also other sections in this book which are commentries on past court cases between BAPS and Swaminarayan Sampradaya. The jist of it is BAPS saints go to preach at Swaminarayan Sampradaya temples and the Acharya files a case. He wins as he proves that BAPS have been ex-communicated and do not give allegiance to vadtal therefore they have no right to enter premises which belong to Swaminarayan Sampradaya.(page 57-58) (Appeal no.165 of 1940 in the court of the disctrict judge, kaira, at nadiad from decree in reg. civil suit no. 519 of 1936 of the court of the sub-judge Mr. P. B. Patel of borsad). The Judgement was given by District Judge, Mr. J.D. Kapadiya, who delivered his judgement on 29 November 1943.

Even BAPS devotees will admit that, Yagnapurush(Founder of BAPS) split from the Swaminarayan Sampradaya to set up BAPS. Granted he left of his own will but a meeting by the sect officials later reported that he had been officially excommunicated by the sect and any of his activities are to be considered to be the same, again BAPS devotees will not dispute this either.

Haribhagat 15:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Around The Globe

To equate this in very crude terms to a person, if a person resigns of his own accord from a company, and then later the company decide to terminate his services - it is seen as a resignation and not a termination (firing) - although both could be held as legal by a court. Similarly, I think we need to look at this objectively and recognize that Sadhu Yagnapurush 'resigned' first, and then his membership was 'terminated' - hence, for wikipedia purposes, we need to consider it as a resignation (split) and not a termination (firing). Considering the chronology of what happened, I feel that considering this as excommunication - though not legally incorrect - might not be NPOV. wildT (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

The way I see it is that the court upheld that they were expelled and hence cannot enter Sampraday mandirs. The other contention was that since they have been expelled their property becomes Sampraday property. That was declined - and the judge said he cannot uphold the excommunication to deny BSS right to property. Around The Globe 09:09, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Section Addition

I agree with earlier discussion from 2007 that the page needs some restructuring. It is also missing a great deal of information and consists mainly of laundry list sections in its current state. As temples are the primary operating unit of the organization, I have done some research and am adding a new section on mandirs and their activities. Anastomoses (talk) 05:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Going along with my statement from earlier this month, I think the "Major relief activities handled by BAPS Charities," which is currently a big laundry list of relief activities, needs some improvement. I have researched the activities and background a bit more and am updating this section. Anastomoses (talk) 02:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

New section

I added a much needed controversy section for specific incidents in the past that the public need be aware of. Vadtal sex scandals links and aacharya fund abuse also need to be posted. There have been reports of many changes to scriptures will be researched and updated such as with the aarti that seems like a over sensitive BAPS cult member keeps reverting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.217.232.53 (talk) 01:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Anonymous Edits

It appears that a user or users from the Detroit area who has been vandalizing Jay Sadguru Swami and other pages is now vandalizing this page as well. He/she is using various anonymous IP addresses from Wayne State U and the surrounding area as well as the username Swamifraud to repeatedly sabotage this page and others to reflect his/her inherent biases against all things BAPS. This includes making up a "controversy section" and citing a unreliable, unverifiable public forum as a source to support libel as in above post (WP:Verifiability). I again appeal for constructive dialogue and cooperation to present substantiated material in a neutral point of view. Please review Misplaced Pages NPOV policies (WP:NPOV) and stop vandalizing. Anastomoses (talk) 01:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Please note that user 141.217.232.53 is now deleting talk page posts. Anastomoses (talk) 03:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

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