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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tony Sidaway (talk | contribs) at 18:11, 1 June 2006 (→Request to reopen hearing 'Rex071404_4': Closing, rejected.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution. Before requesting arbitration, please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee.

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The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and (exceptionally) to summarily review new evidence and update the findings and decisions of a previous case. Review is likely to be appropriate if later events indicate the original ruling on scope or enforcement was too limited and does not adequately address the situation, or if new evidence suggests the findings of fact were significantly in error.

The procedure for accepting requests is described in the Arbitration policy. If you are going to make a request here, you must be brief and cite supporting diffs. New requests to the top, please. You are required to place a notice on the user talk page of each person against whom you lodge a complaint.

0/0/0/0 corresponds to Arbitrators' votes to accept/reject/recuse/other.

This is not a page for discussion, and Arbitrators or clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment. Please do not open cases; only an Arbitrator or clerk may do so.


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How to list cases

Under the Current requests section below:

  • Click the "" tab on the right of the screen appearing above the section break line;
  • Copy the full formatting template (text will be visible in edit mode), omitting the lines which say "BEGIN" and "END TEMPLATE";
  • Paste template text where it says "ADD CASE BELOW";
  • Follow instructions on comments (indented), and fill out the form;
  • Remove the template comments (indented).

Note: Please do not remove or alter the hidden template

Current requests

Conspiracy theories in History of South Africa in the apartheid era

Involved parties

User:Phase4, User:Kuratowski's Ghost, edit war in History of South Africa in the apartheid era under "Destablization and Sabotage" subsection regarding the inclusion of the text:

Although South Africa agreed to cease supporting anti-government forces, their support of RENAMO continued. In 1986 President Machel himself was killed in an air crash in mountainous terrain near the South African border after returning from a meeting in Zambia. South Africa was suspected of sabotaging Machel's Soviet-built presidential aircraft.

On December 21 1988 UN Commissioner for Namibia, Bernt Carlsson, was en route to the signing ceremony in New York, whereby South Africa was to cede control of Namibia to the UN, after over a decade of defiance of Security Council Resolution 435. Carlsson was among 270 people killed when Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie in Scotland. Because foreign minister Pik Botha and a 22-strong South African delegation were due to travel on the doomed flight — but cancelled their booking at short notice — some also suspect South African involvement in the PA 103 sabotage.

Statement by User:Kuratowski's Ghost

User:Phase4 insists on including the above conspiracy theory text at the end of the section. It includes original research claiming South Africa continued to aid RENAMO after the Nkomati Accords. It includes weaselly repetition of the conspiracy theory that SA somehow sabotaged Machel's plane, already receiving questionably large coverage in the Samora Machel article. It repeats the conspiracy theory that SA was responsible for the Lockerbie bombing already given ample coverage in the article Pan Am Flight 103. These fringe conspiracy theories do not belong in the section, at most there could be a sentence mentioning conspiracy theories of ongoing sabotage by SA linking to the articles dealing with them, but it makes no sense to give detailed repetitions of these bizarre claims as if these are substantiated cases uncovered by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and / or other Commissions.

Statement by party 2

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

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Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)


Editor Abuse, Threats, and Uncivil Conduct

Involved parties

User:DV8_2XL
User:Ewrobbel

DV8 2XL has been abusive, threatening, and uncivil in mediation case and before.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
User_talk:DV8_2XL
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-05-28_Editor_abuse_and_threats

Statement by Ewrobbel (talk • contribs)

Review of DV8 2XL's remarks in the mediation case will show a pattern of abusive and threatening treatment of me, and intimidation of both myself and the mediator.--Ewrobbel 23:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by DV8 2XL (talk • contribs)

This editor has been attempting to insert a link to his website where he sells books he has written and self-published. A quick look at his contribs will show that he has only made edits on this one topic. Discussed with the editor who is complaining on his talk page here: ; Discussed at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents here:; went to the Mediation Cabal the first time here: (mediator e-mailed a response explaining spamlinking, case closed); returned to Mediation_Cabal here: ; and finally in edit summaries here: , here: , and here: .
This Request for arbitration is just a transparent attempt to game the system and stop me from keeping his spam off Misplaced Pages. I do not think this issue is worth the committee's time and at any rate Ewrobbel has not exhausted all other dispute resolution options. --DV8 2XL 01:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Followup by Ewrobbel (talk • contribs)

I am not arguing the case. I lost. That's over. I am accusing DV8 2XL of being abusive, threatening, and uncivil in the mediation case and before. His behavior shows a pattern of abusive and threatening treatment of me, and intimidation of both myself and the mediator.--Ewrobbel 03:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved party Christopher Thomas (talk • contribs)

I tend to agree with the AN/I statements that User:Ewrobbel is linkspamming and self-promoting. In particular, he's been adding references to his own books to Transistor radio (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and Crystal radio receiver (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), and links to his web site under Walkman (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). As far as I can tell from both the links and the discussions linked above, the only work of utility to Misplaced Pages from these would be the photograph of various old Walkman models.

Skimming several of the discussions involved, I don't see any serious justification for User:Ewrobbel's statement that threats are being made. User:DV8 2XL stated his intentions to continue removing linkspam in accordance with Misplaced Pages policies. In my past interactions with User:DV8 2XL, I've only ever seen him act in good faith. While I think he could have phrased his statements more diplomatically, I get the strong impression that User:Ewrobbel is using this as a delaying tactic in order to continue self-promoting. The discussions on AN/I and elsewhere make it clear that classifying the edits as linkspam has substantial community support.

This has been through a mediation attempt and was discussed at length on AN/I. I don't think further attempts at dispute resolution would work. User:Ewrobbel brought this to ArbCom; let him reap the results. --Christopher Thomas 03:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

To clarify: As far as I can tell from the mediation case and elsewhere, the claims of attacks and threats are baseless. The statements that User:Ewrobbel considers "threats" were along the lines of, "I will continue to remove edits that violate Misplaced Pages policy". --Christopher Thomas 04:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion... Ewrobbel (talk • contribs)

No one is claiming "attacks" as Christopher Thomas misstates. DV8 2XL is simply accused of abusive, threatening, and uncivil treatment of me, and intimidation of both myself and the mediator. I trust the arbitrators will be more careful in their reading of the accusation and their review of the mediation case than Christopher Thomas has been.--Ewrobbel 15:45, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

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Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)

Enfestid v. Mel Etitis: Revert Wars

Involved parties

User:Enfestid
User:Mel Etitis

Mel and I have been in a conflict regarding stylistic choices of the 30 Seconds to Mars article. I changed the format of the page and two images at particular sizes and formats, when Mel then changed each image to fit his personal views on what were good. We have both cited pages on Misplaced Pages that support our claims and cannot resolved the issue. Attempts to work the issue out on our own have not resolved the issue.

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
30 Seconds to Mars Talk
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
I have made numerous attempts to resolve our dispute via the 30 Seconds to Mars discussion page, and have given concessions to Mel in attempts that we can reach some mutual ground, yet all of my edits have been reverted. I have tried talking to Mel on his talk page (, ), and he has responded to me on mine (), yet we have not been able to work the issue out, therefore Arbitration was the best option in my personal opinion.

Statement by Enfestid (talk · contribs)

I believe that Mel Etitis has been in violation of the Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style in issues relating to "Disputes over style issues". Revert wars have occured because of differences in opinion on sections. I have removed numerous revisions I have made in attempts to reach common ground and allow us both to have some portion of our edits taking plage. The 30 Seconds to Mars history page () chronicles the problems, as does the relating discussion page. I made an image 250px, and Mel kept changing the image to 200px. Then I uploaded an image and set it at 250px, whereas Mel keeps changing this image to 200px. I also placed the logo in a different portion of the article to not be a thumb, yet he insists on changing it when my edit clearly is not in conflict with the Misplaced Pages guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by enfestid (talk • contribs) 18:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by party 2

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

Clerk notes

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Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/4/0/0)

Razer (Robot), Tornado (robot) and other Robot Wars articles

Involved parties

User:Lenin & McCarthy
User:Lucy-marie

I have been in a dispute over the formatting of Robot Wars articles for a while. While I have been supporting a summarising of battle histories with a category for noteworthy battles the robot took place in, Lucy-marie has opted to support the original long edits, which read like personal commentaries and were highly unprofessional (especially Tornado. What's more, her preferred edits are also factually inaccurate (see Razer). Lenin & McCarthy 16:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Lucy-marie
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
I had given reasons for my edits to these pages . I have also attempted to talk to Lucy-Marie , but each time she removed my comments from her talk page citing "i will have my talk page look the way i want it too". She also contacted me with a message left on my user page, I subsequently moved it to my talk tage, in which she claimed I wanted "the worst of the worst on the internet".Lenin & McCarthy 16:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
You don't seem to have considered the option for a request for comment on the article itself, which throws the issue open to a wider audience, and is the usual route for this sort of content dispute. robchurch | talk 22:27, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


Other steps proposed by Lucy-marie (talk · contribs)

I have now officially request informal mediation for this dispute rather than that of arbitration. Razer (Robot)

Statement by Lenin_&_McCarthy (talk · contribs)

The summaries supported by Lucy-marie read like a fan's commentary and in many cases reference the reader directly. I have been attempting to keep a professional standard with the Robot Wars articles, and had rewriting many articles with a slimmer battle history and a section for noteworthy battles. Lucy-marie, on the other hand, has protested on the grounds that as Misplaced Pages is an internet-based enecyclopedia, articles can and should be as long as possible to provide as much detail as possible. In addition, Lucy-marie has been posting incorrect data on these articles (i.e. Razer won the Series 4 Sumo Basho Tournament, Tornado did not win the Extreme II European Championship). I have seen no other recourse but to bring this to arbitration. Lenin & McCarthy 16:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Lucy-marie (talk · contribs)

The following steps have not been sort by the proposer Informal Mediation, Discussion with third parties, Conduction of a survey and Mediation. If they have ben sort then i am unaware they have been sort. I request we sit down and talk like rational people rather than waste time and money on arbitratrion. this dispute should never have been requested for arbitration in its current state as the above mentioned have not been sort out be the proposer. As this is currently requested for arbitration i request that the pages in question be protected

I here by formally request that this request be thrown out until all other avenues have been exhausted. If no resolution can be found then arbitration will be required at the moment all avenues must be exhausted first. Lucy-marie 12:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment by PHDrillSergeant

When discussing sports stars, whether it be Tiger Woods, Hulk Hogan, or even a robot like Tornado, the age-old Wiki Question remains: how much info is too much info? And there is no defined answer. DO you go into excruciating detail for those who know nothing of the subject/ Or do you just get the key points for those who just want to find out what the subject is?
Be that as it may, I suggest, before you resort to a Request for Arbitration, that you should try other ways to resolve this conflict. Try a Request for Comment or Request for Assistance first. Request for Arbitration seems a bit harsh.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by PHDrillSergeant (talk • contribs) 18:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved party 69.117.11.27

L&M, may I ask you: How is this anything other than a content dispute? Don't you realize that arbitration is not for content disputes? 00:10, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved party

I have been asked by Lucy-marie to act as a mediator with regard to these articles. I think a process of mediation is worth persuing first, and stands a good chance of success, before the big jump to Arbitration which is entirely unnecessary at this time. Can this request be put on standby, or even close, pending the outcome of the mediation? Kcordina 14:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

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Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/4/0/0)

Appeal of Saladin1970 against community ban

Involved parties

Saladin1970 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (informed)
User:SlimVirgin (informed)
User:Ryan Delaney (informed)
User:Jayjg (informed)

Saladin is indefinitely blocked for, to quote SlimVirgin in the block log, "copyrightvio, sockpuppetry, block evasion, poor writing, bigotry, violations of V and NOR, appears to have made no useful edits". He has asked to appeal to ArbCom, which I understand is allowed by WP:BAN. I am bringing this case purely as part of clearing out Category:Requests for unblock and make no judgement as to the legitimacy of his appeal.

The three admins listed above were the last three to block him. Discussion relating to the block has already taken place on User talk:Saladin1970. --Sam Blanning 13:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
See above.
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
Saladin is indefinitely blocked and is unable to partcipate in any dispute resolution.

Statement by Ryan Delaney

This is an RFAR about whether User:Saladin1970 is in fact community banned, not whether he should be banned. The Misplaced Pages:Banning policy states:

  • The Misplaced Pages community, taking decisions according to appropriate community-designed policies with consensus support, or (more rarely) following consensus on the case itself. Some editors are so odious that not one of the 915 administrators on Misplaced Pages would ever want to unblock them.

Well, he's not so odious that I was unwilling to block him. The banning policy indicates that this means he is not community banned, yet User:SlimVirgin re-applied the indefinite block some time later. It is my understanding that because he is not community banned, nor banned by the Arbitration Committee, nor banned by Jimbo, nor banned by the Board, he is not banned. Administrators acting alone cannot ban users, and community bans cannot take place without unanimous support from the community. --Ryan Delaney 05:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by SlimVirgin

My role in this was to reinstate Saladin's indefinite block, which Ryan had reduced to one week. I did this because of Saladin's behavior on Misplaced Pages, and also because his 30 posts to the mailing list as Abu Hamza — in which I believe he named himself after British Islamist Abu Hamza al-Masri, convicted in February 2006 of racial hatred and incitement to murder — suggested to me that his editing style is unlikely to change.

As Saladin1970, he made one edit in March 2006, with the rest of his edits being made between May 13 and 18. There were 27 edits to articles, and 10 to article or user talk other than his own. At Harold Shipman, the British doctor turned serial killer, Saladin joined up with anon IPs to add to the introduction that Shipman was a Jew. Saladin admitted on the mailing list that he had done this after a discussion on a bulletin board about how Shipman's Jewish background had never been published by the media. There are no reliable sources that say Shipman was a Jew, and even if he was, it's not relevant enough that it needs to go in the very first sentence, and was evidently being done to make Jews look bad. The only person I'm aware of who has raised Shipman's alleged Jewish background is Abu Hamza al-Masri who, during his 2004 trial for incitement to murder, claimed in court that the British Foreign Office, money supply, and media are controlled by Jews, offering by way of evidence that Harold Shipman's Jewish background had been suppressed by journalists. This is the mindset that Saladin1970 brings to Misplaced Pages, and it's the reason I believe his naming himself Abu Hamza on the list is not a cooincidence.

In addition, his admission that he targeted the article after taking part in a bulletin-board discussion about it strongly suggests it was an anti-Semitic/Islamist board. It's unlikely this kind of material would be discussed elsewhere.

The edits in question are:

  • an anon adds to the intro that Shipman was Jewish-British at 01:17 May 13;
  • Saladin re-inserts it on 21:48 May 13, his first edit to the article;
  • an anon adds it at 15:25 May 15;
  • Saladin reinserts it at 08:03 May 16;
  • Saladin reinserts it at 19:04 May 16;
  • Saladin again at 08:12 May 17, this time changing tack slightly and adding instead that Shipman was "the son of a jewish asylulm seeker ..." referencing the BBC's Newsnight in his edit summary. However, so far as I know, the BBC made reference to Shipman's alleged Jewish background only to say that Abu Hamza al-Masri was citing its supposed suppression as evidence of Jewish control of the media;
  • He added it again at 06:48 May 18;
  • And again at 08:05 May 18. Then he was blocked by Tom harrison, I believe for a 3RR violation elsewhere.

Apart from at Harold Shipman, Saladin's editing involved a 3RR violation using a sockpuppet account, which he later insisted was a work colleague with the same IP address, same browser, and same opinion; a copyvio; and block evasion using at least one anon IP.

If the Arbitration Committee hears appeals from every racist, anti-Semitic, and Islamophobic account that's blocked after 20 edits for trying to insert bigotry into Misplaced Pages, it's going to be very busy. At some point, the judgment of administrators has to be trusted. If Saladin1970 really wants to return and make decent edits, all he has to do is choose another user name and continue. If his edits are decent, no one will notice that it's him. SlimVirgin 13:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I should add that, after Ryan reduced the block to one week, I asked him if he would be prepared to mentor Saladin. When Ryan didn't agree to this, and Saladin continued to defend his position on the mailing list, and also continued to evade his block by posting as an anon, I decided to reinstate the indefinite block. SlimVirgin 14:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Saladin1970

As an introduction, I had been using wikipedia for 3 days as saladin1970, making two contributions without an account a few months earlier, to the british muslim page, and the zionism page where i introduced the section on 'further reading'. I made quite a few mistakes during those 3 days including not following the general rule of gaining consensus before additions were added. I have been through the mill over the last week and feel that I have learnt enough to ensure greater positive contributions. And so to my case. Also, there was no community consensus on my ban, see below. I was just banned.

Firstly I would like to draw your attention to the wikipedia policy on 'bans', as per Ryan Delaney comments . I was banned indefinately by Jaygy. There was NO community consensus, there was no arbitration, and there was no remit from James Wales. So in effect it was against wikipedia policies ( Remembering of course that this was the 3rd day of contributions to wikipedia).

Secondly, Ryan Delaney reduced it to 1 week to see if community consensus could be acheived. It wasn't acheived. Then slimvirgin again imposed an indefinate ban, with no arbitration, no community consensus and no remit from James Wales. Also, there was no community consensus on my ban, see below. I was just banned.

So from the outset, all wikipedia policies on the level of blocks for small infringements, and for indefinate bans were sidestepped. I understand that these policies are put in place to ensure there isn't misuse by administrators, and to encourage and foster contributions by new users.. Both Jaygy and SlimVirgin were involved in reverting my contributions, and so were not in my opinon impartial. The subsequent indefinate ban is a very good example of why the procedures are needed, and should be upheld. A lot of effort has been put into developing a fair and just mechanism to deal with such cases. If they are to be sidestepped then surely this should be part of the policy that is debated and considered by the whole adminstration team.

The initial indefinate ban by jaygy cited several reasons. I have listed in detail on my talk page, what I understand are the wikipedia policies surrounding the points raised.I find it quite difficult to see how they could justify an indefinate ban (as is the opion of quite a few administrators on the wiki email listing).

Then there is an additional reason given by slimvirgin , of sockpuppetry. Again I have looked at the wikipedia policy on sock puppetry and again i cannot see any justification for an indefinate ban. I used my work account (and signed it as Saladin1970 - complete transparancy) , and used it to discuss my ban with various administrators (and NO other reason), as there were increasing complaints about the level of emails on the wiki email regarding this case in question).

Lastly there are the straw man arguments ,which go something like this. Saladin1970 is an offensive name, the email he uses i.e abuhamza1970@hotmail.com was made up to be offensive and be associated with abu hamza al misri. He put back in Shipmans religious and ethnic background over 3 times , after a discussion he had offline, and so he must be an islamist who frequents anti semetic sites, and so we don't need that kind of person.

Well my son is hamza, and i have been using the email abuhamza1970@hotmail.com for several years now.

Yes i put back in the reference to Shipmans ethnic background in exactly the same place it initially was(most biographies include this information). I was then suggested it shouldn't be in the introduction, so i moved it. It was then suggested the references were not good enough, and so i provided what few sources are available that list his ethnicity. It was never explained to me by anyone that these references were not recognised by wikipedia. Of course i now know better.

But this general picture of my posts pointing to 'anti semitism' are quite a distortion. I find it quite offensive to be called antisemetic, which is against my faith. I am however antizionist (as are millions of christians, jews, atheists and muslims around the world). This however has not resulted in me pushing a POV. I have looked at wikis guidelines on NPOV, and I am quite confident that none of my contributions have pushed a NPOV, specifically my contributions to the Zionism page.

I have made several contributions to the wiki pages including chinese muslims, turkic people, spanish inquisition ,alan hart and lastly zionism, where I introduced factual information on the the talmudic three oaths, which is one of the major scriptual points surrounding 'zionism'.I also included the book by the ITN presenter Alan Hart in the further reading section. A book that has been researched for over 5 years ,factual documenting the build up to 'political' zionism from the 19th century.

My final point is that, yes i was over enthusiastic, yes i was unaware of a lot of the rules behind wikipedia, however i made 'useful contributions'(chinese muslims, amongst others, and to sidestep the wikipedia policies/guidlines on an indefinte ban to permanently ban me is unjust. I look forward to making lots of contributions to the many subjects that i am interested in

You might want to emphasise the point that 'Abu Hamza' means 'Hamza's father' and is (if I understand correctly) no more intrinsically offensive than the name 'Adolf'. It's unlikely the arbitrators have much knowledge of Arabic. --Sam Blanning 11:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi sam, yes thanks for that point. Abu means father of, it is extremely common for people to be named father of, son of , daughter of etc. In christian circles it is common to have surnames, in muslim countries it is common to use abu (father of), or bin (son of ), or bint (daughter of), as the lineage is important. That said, i have had this email for yonks, and it was never part of my wikipedia name. It was only brought up by philip welch who noted that my email was abuhamza1970. Also there was talk of saladin by an offensive name. Saladin is one of the few islamic figures who the majority of christians and muslims viewed as chilvarous , just and fair - hardly offensive.

Note by Sam Blanning

This statement has been copied from User talk:Saladin1970 by Fred Bauder. My comment to Saladin and his reply were made there. They have also been copied, which is why I appear to have put an indented comment in the middle of someone else's RfAR statement. --Sam Blanning 12:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment form (uninvolved) PHDrillSergeant

I find the community ban on this user to be a violation of all that Misplaced Pages stands for--expressn, and sharing of knowledge. Saladin has obviously attempted to overcome that fact that he is a new user, and the fac that he took the time to read through all of the Misplaced Pages Policies to put in his above statement is enough to tell me that he seriously wants to be a contributor. If we are going to ban every nrw user who is trying to figure out how the (very complex) machine that is Misplaced Pages works, here will we be? Porphyric Hemophiliac § 21:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

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Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (4/0/1/0)

TruthSeeker1234 (talk · contribs) and Collapse of the World Trade Center

Involved parties

User:TruthSeeker1234, User:MONGO, User:Tom harrison, User:DCAnderson: TruthSeeker1234 has been continually referring to other user's edits as vandalism on Collapse of the World Trade Center. He has also been generally exhausting the patience of the community by tying up all discussion on the talk page with requests to add things to the page that we have told him he can't add and why, but he still keeps asking anyway.
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

This has been brought up in Wikiquette alerts and he has been warned about it in his talk page, and on the talk page of Collapse of the World Trade Center.

Statement by party 1

User:TruthSeeker1234 has referred to the edits of both User:Tom harrison and User:MONGO(this last edit was after repeated warnings on his talk page) as "vandalism" in the edit summaries on Collapse of the World Trade Center. He has carried these claims on to the talk page as well..

He has also taken up over half the talk page of Collapse of the World Trade Center with a diatribe about how certain facts need to be included. This would be fine, but we have continually explained to him why they should not be included, but he keeps bringing up "new" arguments, and has pretty much drowned out any other meaningful discussion. He also has inferred on numerous occasions that we are trying to "hide the truth" and that we are "anti-science" ,,,etc.--DCAnderson 21:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by party TruthSeeker1234

"Collapse of the World Trade Center", as currently written, is Original Research in its entirety. It has synthesized various competing theories about the cause of the building collapses into one. Even ignoring the "controlled demolition" theory (which is well supported) , there are at least 3 other prominent theories about what may have caused these unprecedented structural failures: (1) The core meltdown theory, (2) the pancake theory, and (3) the column pull theory. It is important for the reader to understand that, particularly in the case of (2) and (3), that these theories are mutually exclusive. They cannot both be true. There are mainstream, published, official sources on these theories. NPOV requires that WIkipedia present them.

I have indeed referred to deletions made by Tom Harrison as "vandalism", and with good cause. Tom Harrison has repeatedly deleted my work, when it was material that was interesting, relevant, and which cited mainstream primary and secondary sources. Tom Harrison does not seem interested in actually contributing to the article, as it appears his only "contributions" are deleting and reverting.

I have also, just today, referred to a deletion made by MONGO as "vandalism" and with good cause. MONGO's edit summary was "it is a conspiracy theory and Jones is not the only one who "thinks" this way...padded cells, nice friendly nurses, some tea, quiet time". "Jones" refers to Dr. Steven Jones, professor of Physics at BYU. Denigrating Dr. Jones this way is a clear indication of bad faith, not merely disagreement.

I do not mean to exhaust the patience of the community. I have repeatedly raised very important questions about the synthesis, about published facts, about rationale for including/excluding certain sources. For the most part, these questions have been ignored. To the extent that they are addressed, they are adressed with falsehoods. For instance, I would like to include mention of the molten metal which was observed, reported, photographed, video'd, and published in mainstream journals. DCAnderson states: "Can't prove exists. Only brought up in theories of Steven Jones . . .". This is just plain false.

It is absolutely beyond me how anyone can think that the article as it stands is anywhere close to NPOV. TruthSeeker1234 23:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

Truthseeker first edited on 9 April, and has about 250 edits, nearly all of which have been to Talk:Collapse of the World Trade Center. His first edits there are unsigned, indicating a person unaccustomed to Wiki discussion. The first edits on his talk page, by MONGO and Tom Harrison less than one month ago, are of the kind that a good user would make to inform a newcomer of the basic rules of Misplaced Pages editing which he might be breaking. About four of his approximately two score edits on the article have had edit summaries describing the edits of others as "vandalism". One on 25 April, two on 12 May and one on 19 May. The newness of the contributor and the slightness of the offence suggest that perhaps earlier steps in dispute resolution, and more vigorous warnings, and if those fail perhaps blocks, might be enough to correct this editor's behavior. There is not yet a deep and obvious pattern of persistent incivility. The editor's purpose in editing Misplaced Pages is clearly to correct what he perceives to be an imbalance in the article. While there are civility problems, he does not appear to be edit warring. He does appear to understand the importance of credible sources and seems to be diligently searching for such sources to support a non-mainstream theory, apparently with a modest degree of success. It's difficult to see how a single editor could cause an article to place undue weight on aspect of a subject if he cannot achieve a consensus for his edits. --User:Tony Sidaway 22:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Response to questionable statements by Tony Sidaway in "Clerk notes" above

See here

Tony Sidaway makes reference to "the slightness" of my "offence". According to WP rules, merely calling another person's edit "vandalism" does not automatically constitute an offense. I ask that the Clerk refrain from referring to my comments as an "offense", whether qualified with the word "slightness" or not.

Tony Sidaway also opines that Tom Harrison's comments on my talk page are "the kind that a good user would make to inform a newcomer of the basic rules of Misplaced Pages editing which he might be breaking". Tom Harrison's first comment on my talk page was "I should point out that we have a three-revert rule that you may be violating". I had only reverted ONE time, not even two, much less three. I believe Tom Harrison can count to three, therefore I believe his comment was intended to intimidate, not inform. TruthSeeker1234 16:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by MONGO

TruthSeeker1234 is a newer editor but his first edit was to the discussion page of Talk:Collapse of the World Trade Center and I believe he/she may have edited for some time simply using an IP, not that this matters. My personal view is that TruthSeeker1234 does not edit war and does contribute to the discussion page at Collapse of the World Trade Center. TruthSeeker1234 has also contibuted to the 9/11 conspiracy theories article and the talk page there. I don't personally find TruthSeeker1234 to be that annoying, but I'm fairly thickskinned most of the time. The problem is that TruthSeeker has been warned numerous times to not refer to other editors reverts and or additions as vandalism. Most of the editors that TruthSeeker is in disagreement with believe that his linking to conspiracy theory websites , , , violates the undue weight section of WP:NPOV. TruthSeeker1234 has, however, also used accredited sources for his references, such as those from FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency)and the NIST (National Institutes of Science and Technology). The constant harping that anyone who disagrees with his edits are vandals has led to a somewhat diminished level of discussion on the associated talk pages. Tom Harrison even told him if he didn't stop referring to his edits as vandalism, there was not going to be anymore discussion between the two of them. After I warned TruthSeeker1234 to stop calling reverts of his work vandalism, he filed a complaint against Tom Harrison at Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts and once again using that vandalism accusation. What got me was what I percieved to be a threat actually and it was made to both myself and Tom Harrison. The threat was to publish something about us, and posted to my talk page stating that "TruthSeeker has written an article about you", and "Let me know if you would like to comment on it prior to its publication." and also posted with slightly more venom to Tom Harrison's talk page stating "TruthSeeker1234 has written about you", "Tom Harrison, you are mentioned several times in my article about my experience here. I accuse you of vandalism. Journalistic responsibility requires that I give you an opportunity to respond, should you choose to do so." No links were ever provided by TruthSeeker1234 to this publication even though I asked him to send me a link.. Lastly, TruthSeeker1234 has lately been filling up the discussion page at Collapse of the World Trade Center with the same old, tired rhetoric that has been going on for a couple of years now by numerous single purpose editors. At this point, the discussion page is definitely blog-like, not like one would expect when editors are trying to build a fact based and neutral encyclopedic article.--MONGO 02:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Tom Harrison

Truthseeker1234 seems determined to repeat his accusations . If my edits are vandalism, tell me and I'll knock it off; If they aren't, tell him they aren't and ask him to stop saying so.

I also found his comment on my talk page kind of odd , but I haven't heard any more about it. Tom Harrison 03:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC) He left me this message in explanation. .

Statement by SkeenaR

One would have to read the whole discussion to really understand what has taken place on that talk page, but for the most part I have found Truthseeker1234 to conduct himself appropriately. I also find that his arguments for what constitutes legitimate contributions to the article to be accurate. In the face of his opposition, I find his actions acceptable to say the least. SkeenaR 04:56, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Striver

Truthseeker1234 is trying to inform the readers that the three mainstream theories are mutualy exlusive, that is resited. It is arguably vandalism to resist such a obivous needed clarification. Maybe not eviden vandalism , or even factual, but arguable. Truthseeker1234 is also trying to include a fourth minority view, and that is denied, refering to undue weight. That is not acceptable, since according to Jimbos definition, the holders of that view are a "significant minority" and not a "insignificant minority" (read WP:NPOV).

I have experience with user MONGO, and i would argue for his admin priviliges being removed any day. While Truthseeker1234 accusations of vandalism are arguable, MONGO's accusations against mister Jones are not arguable and in evident bad faith. --Striver 10:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

btw, Morton is not a suckpupet :) --Striver 10:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

MONGO's rebuttal of Striver's statement
You mean Sockpuppet, surely. When Steven E. Jones gets his hypothesis published by a reputable third party source, then it may be considered with less skepticism. You are welcome to file arbitration against me anytime you wish, Stiver.--MONGO 11:46, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Others accuse Tom Harrison of Vandalism

Also, I'm suspicious that User:Morton devonshire may be a sockpuppet of MONGO. TruthSeeker1234 15:49, 21 May 2006 (UTC) Morton is not a MONGO sockpuppet.

Response to User:TruthSeeker1234

I request a block of anyone who calls another good faith editor to this page a vandal. Furthermore, see Misplaced Pages:Requests for CheckUser if you suspect I use sockpuppets. Futhermore, the diff you provided above is a revert by User:Pokipsy76 of content removed by User:Morton devonshire, so I can't see how that is an accusation that Tom Harrison is a vandal.--MONGO 19:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wrong, MONGO, check the history. Pokipsy76 reverted Tom Harrison, Raemie reverted Morton devonshire. I'll move the sockpuppet issue to RfCheckUser. My bad. TruthSeeker1234 21:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

NO, you are wrong...Morton Devonshire took out the section that Pokipsy79 put back in ...Tom Harrison had nothing to do with it...and Pokipsey79 didn't revert a single change that Tom Harrison had done in this instance. You best check the editing history.--MONGO 03:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Kmf164

Referring to edits as vandalism, when they are disputes regarding content and Misplaced Pages policy is not constructive. I have been following this page for several months now, and while I have been reluctant to get involved with this (I'm being kept busy on other pages), I can vouch for Tom Harrison, MONGO, DCAnderson, Toiyabe and others who keep explaining about WP:RS, NPOV#Undue weight, WP:NOR, and other policies Misplaced Pages is not a free-for-all for anyone to post anything. -Kmf164 (talk | contribs) 22:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

PS. The thought of Morton devonshire and MONGO as sockpuppets is quite amusing, as a quick look at both their contributions easily dismisses the idea. ;) -Kmf164 (talk | contribs) 22:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Jersey Devil

From what I can see of the user's edits, he clearly has broken with various Misplaced Pages policies. He refuses to acknowledge the basic priniciple of Misplaced Pages, that being accepting the consensus. The user, as stated above, has reverted edits falsely claiming "vandalism" when there was no vandalism. He has falsely accused others of being "sockpuppets" in order to justify, what I think is fair to say his "POV pushing" and he refuses to maintain the basic level of civility that is needed for cooperation in creating an encyclopedia. I see one comment by one of the arbitrators that states that this should have gone to RFC first, but whilst clearly I respect any decision made by the arbitrators I have to disagree. While it is recommended that RFCs be used first it is not set policy, furthermore RFC assumes that the actions of a user can be changed by community action. I think in this case there is really nothing that can be done to change the user's behavior. And, if I may add one point, this is the kind of editting that discourages one from participating in Misplaced Pages or of trusting it as an encyclopedia including myself.--Jersey Devil 21:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment by Zero

This article and its talkpage has been present on my watchlist for quite a length of time.

It has been a persistant and (currently) on-going conflict ensuing between users over the various insertions in this article. From general discussion on the talkpage, its apparent this Truthseeker fellow has not fully understood the basis of WP:OR and WP:RS, nor the intent for why they are to be enforced at this encyclopedia. This lad is obsessed with introducing unsourced and unverified content into this article, and a review of the contribution tree reveals little but dealings regarding this article. He is also quite persistant upon calling views which he does not agree upon "vandalism", which in numerous cases is a blockable offense. This is unacceptable. This user must accept the core values of what information can be introduced into the encyclopedia. I would also feel his actions fall squarely under the disruption clause in the blocking policy, in which case, a eventually community ban should his behavior not improve, be quite appropriate.-Zero 11:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Response to Zero

You're way off base, Zero. I was trying to insert material into the article which has numerous mainstream sources. That is, I have been trying to introduce mention of the molten/evaportaed metal which was observed, photographed, videotaped, and reported by structural engineers in the New York Times. Tom Harrison and MONGO are trying to keep molten metal out of the article. Ask them why.

I believe I do understand WP:OR. This forbids editors from synthesizing their own original theory. The article as currently written does precisely that. I also understand WP:NPOV which requires that editors present conflicting views from the neutral voice. The article most certainly does not do that.

TruthSeeker1234 22:39, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

After this entry in discussion, I have blocked TruthSeeker1234 for 24 hours for once again being incivil. There comes a time when some editors simply exhaust the communities patience, and this one is getting close.--MONGO 20:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Clarification of intent to publish experiences and name those that he encountered here

TruthSeeker1234 has clarified to Tom Harrison and to myself that he intends to have either a newspiece or some other published document in which he plans on detialing his experiences at Misplaced Pages, and plans on naming those he has encountered. He claims that this is not a threat and that Tom Harrison and I will have opportunity to comment prior to publication. In light of the fact that TruthSeeker1234 has been at odds with myself and Tom Harrison, I have great concern in this matter. I have great doubt that TruthSeeker1234 will present an unlibelous account of his experiences here and I constitute his clarification of intent to publish as approximating a legal threat.--MONGO 11:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/3/0/0)

Francis Schuckardt

Involved parties

Bernie Radecki (talk · contribs) Athanasius303 (talk · contribs) AKA Fra. John

Since Februrary, I (and a number of others who don't have user accounts) have been attempting to modify the Francis Schuckardt article, but have had gotten consistent resistance from Athanasius303. He quotes policy a lot and deletes alot, even deleting large sections on the talk page that reflect poorly on the subject of the article. His grounds are that it is a personal attack against the subject of the article! This did provoke some parties. I went to the mediation cabal in March and it did serve to clarify things somewhat. Athanasius303 holds that since the article is about Francis Schuckardt, it should be from his point of view. I hold that the long explanation of Schuckardt's theological views is Original Research and should not be given prominence for several reasons. Additionally, Athanasius303 has consistently deleted my additions that are properly cited from third party sources. The current article on Francis Schuckardt now contains sections that both of us strongly disagree with. We have agreed to keep the article in this form to make the Arbitration Committee's role easier in that the article contains a section that I strongly contest and it also contains 2 sections that I have added that he strongly contests. This article has been hotly debated for 6 months with Athanasius on one side and 5 or 6 on the other. Due to the results of the Mediation Cabal request, the issue has been refined down to a policy dispute on No Original Research and Verifiability of sources. If we got a binding decision on these policy issues, the content issues may evaporate. Simply looking at the article as it now stands may suffice for you to reach an arbitration decision. - Bernie Radecki

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Francis_Schuckardt&diff=prev&oldid=53517469

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-03-15 Francis Schuckardt After a lot of wrangling, the only change agreed to was to remove a footnote. We could not even agree on what the term "Catholic Church" should refer too. The talk page on the Francis Schuckardt article demonstrates that Athanasius303 and myself, Bernie Radecki, have discussed in agonizingly great detail the portions of the article that are contentious. This effort has not resulted in an progress. We have agreed that it is a policy dispute and that we need a binding decision instead of the non-binding, collaborative approach available through mediation.

Statement by party 1

Athanasius303 has added in a 2000 word section titled | "Separation from the Modern Church, Three Principle Causes" with its three sub-parts. This was after I brought up the topic of Original Research in mediation. He writes what Schuckardt thinks and believes, but there are no third party citations showing that Schuckardt actually believes it. I find this to be blatantly against Misplaced Pages policy. Athanasius303 is a religious brother in Schuckardt's church of 100 or so. Schuckardt is his direct religious superior. Unless he agrees to cite independent, third party sources, I do not think Athanasius303 can keep his own POV out of the article. A good example of this is the section he recently added entitled| "Reaction of the Post Vatican II Church" which is very revealing as to his point of view on the subject of the article. I have searched to find any third party that has cited Francis Schuckardt's views on theology. It is my contention that he falls into the Tiny Minority view as evidenced by the fact that I could find none that mention him. I hold that Schuckardt is a controversial figure, but due to his other and more controversial actions, reputable sources have not published any of his material. Additionally, his theological view is roughly Sedevacantism and there is an article in Misplaced Pages on this subject already so it doesn't need to be contained in the Francis Schuckardt article in any event.

My second issue is that when I add information from third party sources, Athanasius303 removes them. I beleive, since this is a controversial subject (the subject of the article holds that the Catholic Church is not the "real" Catholic Church and his band of 100 or so followers is) that a NPOV needs to be maintained by using citable material as I have done. There is a lot of published material that refers directly to Schuckardt's non-theological views, especially the bizarre practices of his followers. See my entries in the following sections in which I cite published, third party sources: |"Opposing Viewpoints on Schuckardt's Consecration" and |"Dissension Within the Ranks". Dateline, CNBC, and the Seattle Times have recently all reported on the bizarre practices of his group, but I know if I add this to the article, Athanasius303 will revert. I content that this is what is published on Schuckardt, this is what he is known for, so it reflects the majority view: That he is not a Bishop of the Catholic Church, that he is a schismatic, that he fled one church in 1984, that he has a tiny church now that continues the same bizarre practices as before. This should be well represented in the article and not a tiny, minority view. Bernie Radecki 17:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment regarding Athanasius303's response: I was unfortunately a member of Schuckardt's church from childhood until he fled in 1984. I am married with 3 grown children. I worked at Hewlett Packard as a software engineer for 22 years and am now finishing up my last few weeks of nursing school. Athanasius303's phrase "Radecki's church" may give a false impression that I have a church of my own. I don't. In no way have I profited monetarily from Schukardt's departure. As for my Misplaced Pages editing, I will admit that when I first started editing in February, I was not knowledgable as to how Misplaced Pages works. I was dismayed to see what I considered a public site for Francis Schuckardt that was one-sided. I apologized for my newbie entries long ago and have striven to conduct myself well. Bernie Radecki 18:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by party 2

My overriding problem is that Radecki, an anti-Schuckardt zealot, wants to turn this article into a critic’s page and try to overwhelm the article with negative and salacious statements. This is contrary to Wiki’s NPOV policy.

I’ve unsuccessfully tried to get Radecki to agree to three simple fundamental facts: this article 1) is a biography of a living person, 2) is controversial and 3) and deals with religion. Any perusal of the article will demonstrate all three of the above. Misplaced Pages has set forth policies and guidelines on dealing with all three of these topics and I simply ask that all editors comply with these policies or state why compliance with them would be inappropriate. Radecki has never attempted to demonstrate why these policies/guidelines should be ignored, but does indeed ignore them. This is the fundamental problem in my view.

Some Radecki policy violations: 1) Under “Opposing POV” Radecki adds nothing that was not already in the article’s earlier editions; his additions seem only to push his POV, sometimes with purely gratuitous statements, (e.g., Viewpoint of Pope John Paul II… Brown never received…). 2) “Dissension within the Ranks” if full of gratuitous, unsourced references, including self-published “public letters,” all of which violate verifiability policy. 3) Under “Accusations…” very little of this is sourced and again largely gratuitous. The McKenzie quotes don’t mention the Bishop at all; it’s guilt by association. 4) Radecki changes this article on a daily basis and squawks whenever I revert to the pre-agreed to version prior to the Mediation process (which he pulled out of). I DID NOT agree “to keep this article in the present form,” for the Arbitration Committee to review. I reject Radecki’s tactics of making major edits (and extractions of material in contention) just before submitting this to Arbitration as though this current version is the basis to work from. It is not.

Radecki has also mischaracterized my arguments against his editing:

  • As a biography, I believe this article should explain what Bishop Schuckardt believes and how he got there. This of course represents a “minority view,” a view of one. It’s a biography after all.
  • Misplaced Pages’s verifiability policy allows the biographical subject’s personal website and other self-published material to be used as a source. Radecki rejects this and deletes the website link.
  • Bishop Schuckardt’s views are his own. Simply to characterize him as a “Sedevacantist” both misrepresents the truth and is non-verifiable.
  • As to the charge that there is little to no publications detailing Bishop Schuckardt’s beliefs, that is not surprising: it’s boring, and boring doesn’t sell.

I am not in opposition to a balanced opposing POV. I have demonstrated this by answering non-verifiable criticisms instead of simply extracting them, because I felt this would better inform the reader and favor a more neutral approach. I do, however, oppose undue weight being given to the critics. Much of this criticism I know to be factually untrue (I know, it’s not truth, but verifiability) and is without question harmful to Bishop Schuckardt’s reputation. I think that is one of the distinguishing differences between Radecki and me: his version will do damage to someone’s reputation, my version will not. I have patiently exercised restraint and have not gone to the articles on Radecki’s church (also a tiny minority) or his church leaders and retaliated in kind. I hope that I am not punished for my restraint and he rewarded for his lack of it.

Once Mediation came into play, Radecki toned down his rhetoric so as not to appear as an anti-Schuckardt zealot, but this is indeed what he is. I do not believe he is capable of representing a NPOV – the millions of dollars of church assets he and his church now enjoy was obtained through the demonization of Bishop Schuckardt. The moral justification for the retention of these assets and their ousting of Bishop Schuckardt would dissolve if the Bishop turned out to be someone other than who they have been portraying him to be all these years.

Our differences will never be amicably resolved, we need help. Thanks. Athanasius303 17:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Statement by party 3

My name is George Wagner and I have been involved with this topic from the beginning. My experiences have been many. The biggest one is as Bernie Radecki points out, is NPOV. I contest 90% of the content that Athansius303 adds because it is a)irrelevant or b) not supported adequately with suitable material. Most of his additions are first hand experiences, not citeable from any book, magazine or paper.

We mention that the Schuckardt group is a cult and add citeable proof of this allegation, he simply deletes in the name of personal attack. Even on the talk forum we mention things of this nature to propose in the article and he deletes them. I don't have the time in my day that he does to revert and destroy someones work. I have left it alone for the time being leaving the major portions untouched, while making only minor changes.

I know that Schuckardt is a living person, or at least we assume he is living, and we need to make sure the facts are straight. Well, I challenge anyone to research him and tell me what you find from third party publications. This article does not reflect the truth in it's present state. It is watered down with unsourced opinions from those who live with him. This is my biggest complaint.

George Wagner

Now that I have read Fra John's response I must add a few thoughts. Bernie has done the research and all the additions he added are SOURCED DOCUMENTS. Fra John must be living in a fantasy world because just about everything in his statements are not true. He pushes the POV card pretty heavily, well, he happens to be living with Schuckardt and is one of the elite in the group. Seems to me his POV is just about everything he writes. We, however, are not associated with the group and we are Catholic in the sense that differentiates us from "groups".

George Wagner 19 May 06

Statement by 207.156.196.242

Yet another content dispute. Arbitration is not for content disputes. Please reject without prejudice. 17:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.156.196.242 (talk • contribs) .

Statement by TenOfAllTrades

Looking at the history of Francis Schuckardt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) there appears to be a fairly long history of edit warring among Bernie Radecki (talk · contribs), Athanasius303 (talk · contribs), and an assortment of floating IP addresses. The article's talk page also leans towards the acrimonious. While the ArbCom probably shouldn't be ruling on a content dispute, there may be user conduct issues to look at. (I've never looked at the article before, and I probably never will again; this comment is just in response to the anon remark above.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment by Bernie Radecki

It has been brought to my attention that Athanasius303 has been cutting and pasting an excessive amount of information straight from the Francis Schuckardt article into the Denis Chicoine Misplaced Pages article. It appears to me an edit war has been ongoing there over the insertion of this material. As a historic note, Denis Chicoine is the man whose public accusations against Schuckardt caused Schuckardt to flee his church in Spokane in 1984. This activity by Athanasius303 may be considered by some to be evidence of unacceptable editor behaviour. Bernie Radecki 20:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Again you are wrong. Several different neutral editors (several days ago: Tangotango) have reinserted large sections of the article removed by Chicoine partisans and have posted vandalism notices on these partisans’ talk pages (if they have one). Athanasius303 17:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Athanasius303 is also 206.188.34.200 and 206.188.36.238 as can be readily proven. The discussion on the Francis Schuckardt article's Talk page under |Aryan Nations gives an example of Athanasius303 pushing his POV regardless of the solid and courteous input from multiple, reasonable individuals. Bernie Radecki 22:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The "reasonable individuals" Radecki refers to is a deceptive statement. They are all Mt. St. Michael - pro Chicoine partisans and like Radecki, have something personal at stake here. I could play their game and gather partisans from my side to overwhelm the talk pages and claim numerical superiority from “reasonable minds,” but this would do nothing to change the facts and only serve to bog down this process even further. Athanasius303 17:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC) (Fra. John)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (4/0/0/0)


Requests for Clarification

Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process.

Election

The complainant has never even sought mediation (there has been no survey, no 'third opinion', etc.), nor a request for an advocate, before bringing this RfAr. How is it that the case has been accepted? Are cases brought by admins subject to lesser restrictions vis-a-vis process?

Here's Phil's comment about mediation (he never pursued it after Robert's comment) . He did not follow thru on the possibility of mediation. Here's Noosphere's next discussion regarding possible mediation of disputes And again here's Noosphere, not Phil, seeking mediation after a round of fierce warring: and the continuing thread, ending in the removal of the mediation request due to a lack of interest .-- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

"excuse me, but please let me point out that you all asked for a mediator: perhaps this is a good topic for me to help with. if I don't get something to do here, I'll just go back and say you case is closed because no one is responding. :-) Ted 01:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Clearly, mediation was skipped on this article. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

"Where a dispute has not gone through Mediation, or the earlier steps in the dispute resolution process, the Arbitrators may refer the dispute to the Mediation Committee if it believes Mediation is likely to help." - from WP:AP. I imagine this is the reason. Phil Sandifer 18:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
If that's the case, Fred Bauder (who said it was his view that mediation should work) or another admin should have referred the dispute to the Mediation committee. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
But they are in no way required to. See "may" not "will." Phil Sandifer 18:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Fred's comment read ""There is a suggestion by RyanFreisling that mediation might be productive, see his talk page. I think that may be a much more productive solution. Having the arbitration committee take the sheep shears to the articles is not going to make for a very nice haircut. "
For you to claim that the 'Misplaced Pages process has spectacularly failed', don't you think you should have followed the process as closely as possible? Wouldn't that have been necessary for you to make that claim? How can Misplaced Pages process have failed, if it hasn't been attempted in good faith? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 19:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Merecat/Rex071404

As mentioned above in my request to reopen 'Rex071404_4', Merecat/Rex071404, who was banned by ArbCom from editing John Kerry and sockpuppeted as Merecat in order to circumvent the ban, has engaged in disruptive editing under the guise of Merecat, resulting in indefinite bans.

Rex' 6-month ban from Rex071404_4 has also apparently ended. Please extend the ban and widen it, in light of this willing violation of ArbCom policy and continuing disruptive conduct. If Rex can simply assume another sock, and violate a permanent ban, there appears to be no solution to his attacks on Misplaced Pages process. Please consider this, in order to minimize the impact of the next disruptive sock proven to be Rex. (update) Mr. Tibbs has above suggested limiting Rex to one account. Please advise on the correct course of action in light of Rex' willing circumvention of ArbCom. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 21:47, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Lou franklin: "Ineffective editor"

This is a matter of curiosity rather than confusion, but what was meant by "this grossly ineffective request for arbitration"? Being the one who brought that request, I naturally wonder whom/what that bit was directed at. Sorry for this rather belated request (I could have asked this weeks ago if I'd been paying attention in class). --Sam Blanning 19:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Lou stated on his talk page that he will "raise the red flag" about that article. Do you think this would eventually lead to additional sanctions and/or long-term blocks/bans? 16:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I was under the impression, a gross error, that Lou franklin initiated the arbitration. We will not be changing the finding of fact, despite the error. Fred Bauder 14:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Crotalus horridus

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Tony Sidaway

The enforcement for Crotalus horridus conflicts with the enforcement provided in the userbox remedy. Presumably the enforcement applies only to Crotalus's probation should that be invoked. Or can admins choose whichever they prefer? (And, if they can, could 5 two-week blocks result in triggering the year-block even though the remedy would not have been invoked since it limits blocks to a week?) -Splash 16:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, we (I?) didn't do that too well. The options are to remove the enforcement from Remedy 1 or to specify that the enforcement only applies to Remedies 2 and 3. I support the former. Sam Korn 17:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
<ping>. I guess it's not especially important since Ch appears to be abiding by it, but it's at least untidy to let it lie. -Splash 23:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Aucaman - Topical ban

Aucaman has made the following query on my talk page. I've given him my interpretation but it occurs to me that it would best be clarified by the arbitrators who voted on the motion in question. --Tony Sidaway 17:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Could you tell me how this is going to work? I have these specific questions:

  1. How am I supposed to know which articles I can edit? Some articles under question: Kurds, Kurdistan, Middle East, Najis, Geber, al-Khwarizmi.
  2. Those articles I cannot edit, can I still edit the talk page and participate in any (possible) mediation?

You can answer these questions directly or refer me to some literature/examples that illustrate how these bans work. Thanks, Aucaman 05:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Whether an article is related to Iran or Persians is to be decided by administrators, who have instructions that "relatedness is to be interpreted broadly so as to prevent gaming." Of the articles you list above, I'd say you can probably only edit Middle East without breaching the ban, and then only if you avoid the subject of Iran and Persians.
You can still use the talk pages, participate in mediation, etc. -Tony Sidaway 11:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Tony's interpretation is correct. Basically if there is any doubt, don't. However, I think you could probably edit Turquoise which while related to Persia, is not about ethnic or political issues. Fred Bauder 14:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Agapetos Angel

Is within the prohibited editing by 203.213.77.138, 220.*, 58/56.* AA et al.? 203 has stated on his talk page that he thinks it is not within the prohibited edit set (see his talk page for details) and so I have brought the matter here for clarification. JoshuaZ 03:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Motions in prior cases

Guanaco, MarkSweep, et al

Since the conclusion of the Arbitration case, StrangerInParadise (talk · contribs) has continued to assume bad faith and make disruptive edits with the StrangerInParadise account while maintaining a separate, older, user account. Thus, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Guanaco, MarkSweep, et al is modified to include the following remedy:

StrangerInParadise restricted to one user account

StrangerInParadise is restricted to one user account. Any sockpuppet accounts will be blocked indefinitely and the main account blocked for up to 48 hours if this is violated.

Support:
  1. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  2. Fred Bauder 14:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  3. ➥the Epopt 14:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  4. James F. (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  5. Charles Matthews 15:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
  6. Jayjg 01:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  7. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comment

This motion has been sitting here for almost a month now. Who will officially implement it, and when? 18:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.117.11.27 (talk • contribs) .

According to the block log: 00:23, 19 May 2006 Cyde blocked "StrangerInParadise (contribs)" with an expiry time of indefinite (Per WP:RFAR this user has been limited to one account. If you pick this one then this one will be unblocked and the other one will be blocked indefinitely.) Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I also noticed this message on User talk:StrangerInParadise: Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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