This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Rstafursky (talk | contribs) at 15:10, 12 October 2013 (→Off subject: offer to discuss contributions). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 15:10, 12 October 2013 by Rstafursky (talk | contribs) (→Off subject: offer to discuss contributions)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) | Urban studies and planning Start‑class | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
 | Environment Start‑class | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
Regarding Citations and 'Synthesis'
It is good to see an article like this being started up, and edited and improved by studies on the subject of human geography, BUT accepting and acknowledging Misplaced Pages's content is expected to be 'enclopedic' in nature (see WP:SOURCE, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV .. it is suggested this article be 'fleshed out' with references, careful synethesis, and neutral review of different 'positions' (eg conservative conservationists?!)
Regarding 'synthesis' warned, on quick reading it does not seem the only reference in the section tagged, ie reference to the European Landscapes Convention, is accurately represented , and the remainder of the commentary and conclusions are unreferenced and unverificable, so it is no therefore possible to know if it is a fair and neutral report on the nature of debates surrounding the European Landscapes Convention?! Bruceanthro (talk) 00:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, there is much work yet to do with the meaning of the natural landscape. It will be difficult to get references on a subject avoided for so long. In the USA especially the term has been avoided or has been used in such a cavalier way. For example, in the USA the word environment has been corrupted to mean only environmentally friendly.
It is interesting that landscaping and such business friendly terms were defined, yet many "experts" were reluctant to define natural landscape. However, yes, that is no excuse for a poorly written item. I shall do my best to correct the flaws as soon as possible.
Rstafursky —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rstafursky (talk • contribs) 02:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
- Noting link to European Landscapes Convention has been removed, I've removed 'synthesis tag'. Although one addition web reference has been added .. this article still needs to be (re)written in a more encyclopedic manner! I will tag it as such, and hope you agree?! Bruceanthro 00:41, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Continued upgrading. Added categories.Rstafursky (talk) 01:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Wilderness vs natural landscape
This is reprinted here from Talk:Nature Wilderness vs natural landscape In nature, the concept of natural landscape has evolved from art into something else. Chunglin Kwa, Alexander von Humboldt's invention of the natural landscape, The European Legacy, Vol. 10, No. 2, pp. 149-162, 2005 point this out quite clearly. Wilderness, I think, is a very static word. Unlike natural landscape, wilderness seems not to be in conflict with our culture. By conflict I mean juxtaposition with a non-wilderness for which there is no such expression. In addition, wilderness has to be explained. It is not self evident. Natural landscape is like the word nature or natural by itself. It is self-evident. The ordinary person knows when a place once again is or is under natural controls and processes. Thus nature, the subject of this page, benefits from being broken down into human and non-human or, if you will, natural and not natural. Wilderness is also misleading in the fact that it causes one to dream of wild things ... vicious things. However, there are many landscapes both macro and micro that give no indication of being vicious. But, natural landscape can encompass these innocuous places quite easily. Can one look through a microscope at and see the calm landscape of a quartz crystal facet and say "what a wilderness"? I don't think so. Yet one can say "look how the silicon atoms have arranged themselves in a marvelous natural landscape." All I am saying is that natural landscape is very useful term and is a natural extension of nature.Rstafursky (talk) 22:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1857) probably never imagined that the world would become crowded, that the forests would be burned so systematically and that humans would eat many species into extinction. It was just that the world seemed too enormous at the time and people were of little issue to it. He also probably could not have conceived of anyone's wanting to return a place to natural landscape controls. What reason could anyone have had in doing this when there was always another and another natural landscape ripe for adventure. I guess what I am saying is that the evolution of the idea of a natural landscape came on gradually in Humboldt's, time and it had its high watermark of sorts. However, today the concept goes beyond Humboldt. One cannot think of the natural landscape without dropping the other shoe. One is compelled to finish the sentence. One is compelled to state the obvious ... that all places altered or polluted by human activity can return. Return to what? Return to the sole control of natural forces and processes. They can once again become a part of the natural landscape, or at least a varient of the natural landscape, but the natural landscape none the less.Rstafursky (talk) 00:45, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
World view of the natural landscape
A natural landscape can be of any size. It can be microscopic as in an image of life on the surface of a rock or it can be macroscopic as in any expanse as seen through a telescope. When the Earth is viewed from just outside our atmosphere the natural landscape can be said to be the entire image of the Earth's surface. The equilibrium that the Earth forces and processes have dynamically achieved over millennia has been referred to as natural law or Wild_law,Law of the Rights of Mother Earth. As is the case with all disturbances within a natural landscape the entire Earth's natural landscape can be considered as self correcting not in any spiritual way, but in a purely natural way. Rstafursky (talk) 22:09, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
Natural landscape alteration
We have had a contribution implying that natural landscaping is an example of physical alteration. It should be noted that all human alteration, whether intended or not intended (e.g invasive species), does introduce human control and force that disturb the natural equilibrium of a place. It is sometimes difficult to judge whether or not the interference is intended to speed up correction or to offer a new solution. One has to be careful with a new solution delivered by people such as landscapers and ecologists acting in good faith. The biological and geological landscape has had millions, if not billions, of years to chance upon solutions that last. Therefor, human modification should not be done based on a hunch or even a scientific epiphany, if you will. On the other hand, well planned removal of human things is seldom wrong.
For another example, be aware that many specialist will advocate replacement of a brownfield site (aka contaminated soil) with development (e.g. a landscaped campus) rather than removing all human influences and things and then returning the place to total natural forces. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rstafursky (talk • contribs) 19:03, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Off subject
After a long hiatus we have been confronted by one who seems intent on replacing entire sections on the notion that a natural landscape does not exists. Yet it is clear that if the natural landscape ceased to function on its own the Earth would come to an end and so far it has not. The contributor's recent appearance seems to be focused on unreferenced material. That is always a problem with encyclopedic articles so we will double or efforts to make proper corrections. The nature of the natural landscape is really very simple. I ask all of you to help the public to understand this really vary simple term. Rstafursky (talk) 11:37, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Since all the edits are refernced to multiple peer reviewed articles, they will remain until you can find some legitimate grounds to remove them. Ad hominem attacks on my motivation are NOT legitimate. Mark Marathon (talk) 06:59, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Off subject, natural landscaping is not the same as natural landscape. It is easy to confuse the two. Rstafursky (talk) 10:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
- Is anybody confusing the two? I certainly am not.Mark Marathon (talk) 11:48, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Please re-read Mark's comment. I have made no ad hominem attacks on Mark (he used the plural for of attack). 71.233.41.122 (talk) 22:14, 11 October 2013 (UTC) Rstafursky (talk) 22:35, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Mark, I will look at your references again and we may actually use some of them, but please do not delete solid references from Natural landscape by removing entire paragraphs. Thank you for your interest. 71.233.41.122 (talk) 22:14, 11 October 2013 (UTC) Rstafursky (talk) 22:35, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Mark, during one day October 11 you have made the same repeated whole paragraph removal. You have done this exact same edit three (3) time on this same day. If you have grievances Misplaced Pages provides mediation. Please use that resource. An edit "war" helps no one. Rstafursky (talk) 22:35, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
- If you have anything to actually discuss on this subject, I am eager to do so. All you have provided so far are ad hominem assertions concerning my beliefs and motivations. When you are able to explain why you have persistently reverted my well-referenced additions ot the article, then we will have something to discuss. Until then, you are giving me nothing to discuss and are simply edit warring. I can assure you, continuing this behaviour will lead to your account being blocked. Please do not push it to that level.Mark Marathon (talk) 02:02, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Mark, I'm sure your method is not how Misplaced Pages intended articles to be created and maintained. I am looking into mediation. That involves a third party. You are now threatening to block the account. I do not believe that Misplaced Pages looks kindly on threats and edit "wars" which you have started and to which I have reacted. Please reconsider any impulsive actions. Rstafursky (talk) 15:10, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
To Wiki editors who might be reading Talk:Natural landscape. If someone wishes to add or delete references it is up to them to give cause. Reference to peer revue alone is not cause. Special interest peer reviewed publications are numerous, but many are bias and many can be discarded out of hand following discussion. Others are easy to misquote or take out of context (especially government publications), because they define terms specifically for that publication. NATURAL LANDSCAPE is an important term and we must not corrupt it or allow it to be watered down by special interests. Natural landscape has a clear meaning and a simple history going back several hundred years. I reference this in the Misplaced Pages article, but in a nutshell what we see is the natural landscape on one extreme and the cultural landscape on the other. Resource managers (who wish to employ their own terminologies) would want us to believe that the natural landscape end of the spectrum contains cultural features. This is not edifying. Rstafursky (talk) 15:10, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Mark, I repete my offer to discus your contributions. Rstafursky (talk) 15:10, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Categories: