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Requests for arbitration

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Kafziel's AfC actions

Initiated by Hasteur (talk) at 16:11, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Hasteur (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), filing party
• Kafziel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Darylgolden (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• Kafziel
• Darylgolden

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• User_talk:Kafziel#AfC_reviews
• User talk:Kafziel#Working on backlogs
• Misplaced Pages:ANI#User:Kafziel_abusing_admin_tools_and_overriding_long_established_consensus

Statement by Hasteur

Administrator Kafziel has explictly thrown the finger at the community in saying that they consider the practices of the AfC wiki project as being only guidelines and free to be disregarded at any time invoking "Ignore All Rules" as a defense. I consider it only just that after being challanged several times by Arbitrators, editors at large, volunteers at the AfC wikiproject, and other administrators only to get further rejection of advice from other editors as to modifiying their actions that Kafziel constitutes a clear and present danger and disruption to both the AfC project, Misplaced Pages as a whole, and editors we are attempting to retain by their deliberately hostile actions. As such I request a temporary injunction desysoping Kafziel and prohibiting them from taking any further action with respect to the AfC project. Hasteur (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

This ArbCom request is being motivated after the ANI thread was closed as a "witch hunt" when multiple editors expressed significant concern at Kafziel's actions (even if they were expedient) as being out of process without trying to establish a consensus for said process. Hasteur (talk) 16:25, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I assert that this is not a case of a small project trying to impose it's will on the entire encyclopedia at large, I assert that CONLIMITED is not applicable here. Where else but at the CSD talk page should discussions of implementation of the CSD rules be applied? Where else but from within the guardianship of AfC should changes to AfC best practices be conducted? Having an admin blunder into a sensitive section of wikipedia and start throwing their novel interpretations of policy and guidelines is not helpful at all. A though experiment for those who think this is a tempest in a tea pot: If an admin with no experience in Checkuser/Sock Puppet Investigations started blocking for those reasons and disregarding advice from editors who are involved with the area would you still cite CONLIMITED? Hasteur (talk) 17:28, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

(Re to NYB questions)

1. No, AfC is intended to be a soft-hands landing space for new editors and Unregistered editors. Kafziel's deliberate gaming and abuse of process is at cross roads with AfC's intention.
2. No, Per WP:DEADLINE eventually the articles will be reviewed, it may take a while, but if we had more volunteers doing quality reviews the backlog would diminish.
3. Yes, since the issue was called by multiple editors he has not initiated any further deletions, however their assertion that they will continue in the same process indicates that they may start again.
4. Yes, Misplaced Pages:Articles for creation does not say project. There is an associated project whose singular goal is to service AfC (Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Articles for creation) but the rules/procedures/guidelines are ones that have been endorsed by the community and therefore belongs as a process rather than a WikiProject task force.
5. No, As diff-ed in Fluffernutter's statement, Kafziel's responses (both before and after being confronted) are significantly deficient when compared with the requirements laid upon Administrators. Hasteur (talk) 18:01, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

(Re to JodyB of 19:08) The only backlog that is over 1 year in terms of outstanding issues is Category:G13 eligible AfC submissions. How do I know this? Because I'm wrote and operate User:HasteurBot. We authorized G13 back in June/July of this year, but didn't have a good grasp on how to handle the hordes of submissions that had been languishing since 2008. The bot was the result of consensus building and a plan to give all the submitters fair warning that the deletions are coming, but at the same time get the deletions rolling. Since the bot was authorized (Late August) we've already cleaned out ~50k stale drafts. We still have a way to go, but compared to the original backlog we've made significant progress. The other place where you might argue that AfC is backlogged is in the Pending Submissions which is currently at a backlog of "4 weeks pending" or less. While yes, we'd like to get the reviews done quicker, there's only so many hours a volunteer can look at the submissions before their perceptions of what is acceptable become skewed. Hasteur (talk) 19:59, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Wee Curry Monster

As noted at WP:ANI, in a thread closed minutes ago following the usual drama and furore, there was no grounds for action. I would observe if there is any grounds for action, per WP:BOOMERANG it would be looking at the ownership issues of those filing this complaint and that at WP:ANI. Wee Curry Monster talk 16:30, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Kafziel

My response is "Read the AN/I thread." WP:OWN, WP:BOLD, WP:EDIT, WP:COPYVIO, and, yes, even the dreaded WP:IAR. This is precisely the intended use of IAR: When the little rules created by some subset of editors have created a backlog of 40,000 articles, then ignore those rules in order to improve the encyclopedia. I would be hard-pressed to come up with a more relevant example of proper use.

Hasteur and his AfC friends wanted me convicted and hanged for violating their laws. When they found they had no grounds to do that, they wanted to be allowed to censure me without process. When that didn't work, they demanded that I voluntarily agree to stay out of their kingdom. Having been told they can’t make me do that either, they then demanded that I at least tip my hat in deference to them as I pass by. I will do none of those things, so, having failed at even that, Hasteur has come here to shop it at a new forum all over again. That's his right, but I (and several other regular editors and administrators) have already made my case quite clearly. I am blunt. I am an asshole, even, when it comes to witch hunts at AN/I. But I am editing well within the spirit and the law of Misplaced Pages, and will continue to do so. I'm not being disruptive;I have improved and moved hundreds of good articles into the namespace, and haven't even had to delete a single one in weeks. It's just that I refuse to kowtow to him and his pals. But I don't need their permission or their blessing. So I'm going to go back to working on the encyclopedia now, because everything worth saying has already been said. Kafziel 17:03, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Re:NewYorkBrad - I've been waiting for you to recuse yourself since I have no doubt you've been looking forward to getting to lecture me since last we met a few months ago, but that doesn't seem to be happening. So I'll just say that:

1. I do not agree to be "collegial" with people who are making outlandish threats on my talk page and elsewhere, or who waste my time with frivolous accusations. I agree only to work to improve the encyclopedia, and help others who are interested in the same. All editors are free to review all of my contribs and logs and restore anything I've deleted incorrectly (or anything else they want to restore) with no argument from me. I never even respond to emails off-project, or discuss anything on IRC, because I believe in being completely transparent in everything I do.
2. AfC is a process with no set rules; the "rules" of AfC are created by the related wikiproject, and cannot trump Misplaced Pages policy. They do not own the articles there. If I don’t want to put their little project banner on talk pages, I don’t have to. Misplaced Pages is not a bureaucracy.
3. I do not agree to refrain from deleting spam, copyvios, attack pages, etc. when I find them. No administrator should agree to that.
4. Finally, I do not agree to give AfC their pound of flesh for allowing me the privilege of helping them with their ridiculous backlog.

It seems we've moved out of the realm of "Kafziel is disrupting Misplaced Pages and abusing the admin tools" into "Kafziel isn't nice." If that's the case, then I'm guilty as charged. Kafziel 18:19, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved JodyB

I hope the committee will decline this request. The AN/I thread was clear that there was not objective wrongdoing by an administrator. It would have quickly blown over had Kafziel been less confrontational but there is still nothing significant overturned. WikiProjects all have their procedures but the broader community procedures are not subjugated to the Projects. What specifically has he done to warrant losing his adminship? I don’t think you will find anything he has done wrong. Please note the policy at WP:CONLIMITED JodyB _talk 17:08, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

There is no question that Kafziel has been stubborn and brash with his replies. If ARBCOM wants to take this as a review of conduct then fine. But please note that there is still no confirmation of any sysop abuse. Kafziel acts as one trapped in a corner. He is trapped by his own anger but also by the attacks of others. I note that there are backlogs at AFC that are dating back over a year. Something is not working. JodyB _talk 19:08, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Resolute

Of the five examples of Kafziel's deletions brought up in the thread (simply as the five most recent they made at the time), two were valid G11s, one was a G12 (but mistagged A7), one was a valid G13, and the last was tagged A7... but had been abandoned for three months. Four of the five were clearly correct, albeit one deleted for the wrong reason, and the last was incorrect only in terms of being deleted now instead of three months from now. While I agree that Kafziel should avoid deleting AFC pages using the A criteria of CSD, my scan of the ANI thread revealed no examples of actual tool abuse that were brought up. At worst, there was one honest error. This does not merit a desysop, a block or a topic ban. Lacking actual evidence of abuse, I fail to see how this request could be permitted. My impression from the ANI is that this seems like an attempt at driving someone away because he won't kowtow to the AFC wikiproject's desires. Resolute 17:16, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved Beyond My Ken

I'm not involved in any AfC activity; in fact, I'm barely aware of the project's existence. I am, however, broadly sympathetic both to the concept that WikiProject practices are voluntary and not binding on anyone who doesn't choose to follow them, and to the concept that WP:IAR means exactly what it says, and should not be restricted to the "big issues". (Surely it would be called "Ignore Some Rules Sometimes" if that was what was meant.)

Despite these prejudices, which might seem to work in favor of Kafziel, I am still concerned about his behavior, not so much because of what he's done, but because of the attitude he's taken in the discussion related to it, and in other discussions as well. Like Kosher hot dogs, admins need to answer to a higher standard of behavior then do rank and file editors, because they've specifically chosen to take on their roles and have been selected by the community to be entrusted with additional powers. Admins are certainly allowed to be human, and to get pissed off occasionally, but an admin who approaches community criticism of his behavior with the equivalent of a big "FU" may not be ideally suited to the role.

Therefore, I would ask the committee to take on this case for the specific purpose of examining Kafziel's demeanor and behavior as an admin. It is most probably not sufficiently egregious to warrant desysoping, but it's possible that a warning and adminishment might be in order. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Fluffernutter

Everyone makes mistakes, and every AfC reviewer does things slightly differently. If this were just a case of doing things differently, an arbcom request would be a gross overreaction for something that could be handled through dispute resolution if it became a problem. However, Kafziel has stated that he will not participate in standard dispute resolution, nor will he change the way he's been doing things (which has involved violations of CSD policy, disregarding consensus, and personally attacking anyone he feels is associated in any way with AfC). As a result, I'm very concerned about the implications of the assertions Kafziel has been making in discussions related to his AfC activity. For instance, even when specifically asked, he will not restore AfCs he deleted because he believes that articles and editors must sink or swim in mainspace rather than using AfC as a drafting space. He doesn't need anyone's permission to do "any other damn thing" he wants, and since dispute resolution processes are "a matter of one editor/group of editors thinking another editor/group of editors should kowtow and beg forgiveness", he has no interest in participating in them. Anyone who asks him to do things differently at AfC is a "tin-pot dictator" who likes to "hold back articles" so they can feel important. He'd love to "have the luxury of being more careful" with determining what to do with AfC articles, but he "outright reject"s the notion that he (or any other editors) has to follow the same reviewing procedures. Consensus is discounted because he suspects it was made by people he doesn't like; " not saying right and the community consensus is wrong. saying right, and whatever little consensus you all might have dreamed up at AfC is wrong.". He's "not required to collaborate with everyone", and despite strenuous requests from a number of users that he moderate his behavior or discuss changing the current operating consensus, he "will continue doing exactly what been doing at AfC" as much as he likes.. He will not accept a compromise, and if "you think you’re going to do sanction me, tell me where I can work and what tools I can use to work there, then it’s going to take a damn sight more than an AN/I report. In short, Kafziel does not feel bound by consensus, chooses to believe that IAR allows his own judgment to trump any other policy or consensus, and will not consider changing his behavior (including misusing his admin tools to improperly delete things) unless forced to do so. This is not the behavior (or the attitude) we should se coming from any administrator, let alone one who has appointed themselves to work in a newbie-facing area like AfC. He's not "ignoring" the rules, as he claims; he's purposely flouting them. I would certainly not be comfortable working with such an administrator and having to continually hope that he didn't substitute his own consensus-of-one for any and every policy the rest of us abide by. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:46, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved admin Coffee

I'll only state what I stated in my close of the ANI thread: I have seen no evidence put forward that Kafziel has abused his tools yet, nor that he has breached policy in his actions. ArbCom is not the place for talking about the perceived possibility of an admin/editor abusing their tools in the future (somewhat akin to a corrupted crystal ball), but instead is for actual breaches of policy and disputes revolving around this. I would recommend that ArbCom decline the matter at this point, and await actual dispute resolution processes (RFC/U) that could more appropriately handle this matter. That is unless ArbCom thinks they are the only possible way of this situation getting handled, and that situation being that Kafziel has been a bit dickish and certain editors don't appreciate it. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 19:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Kafziel's AfC actions: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <2/0/1/0>-Kafziel's_AfC_actions-2013-12-10T16:57:00.000Z">

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

• Awaiting statements, including Kafziel's. Having followed the ANI thread, I urge the parties to stick to the issues and avoid name-calling and excessive rhetoric. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:57, 10 December 2013 (UTC) I would find it helpful if statements would briefly comment on, among other things, the following questions: (1) were Kafziel's actions with respect to pending AfC drafts reasonable and appropriate in light of the reasons AfC exists and the role of AfC in the project? (2) were his actions, even if otherwise problematic, understandable in light of the great backlog of AfC drafts? (3) has he discontinued the most problematic types of actions, specifically, allegedly improper deletions? (4) should AfC be deemed to be an English Misplaced Pages process (akin to AfD, for example) whose policies and procedures must generally be respected outside an occasional "IAR" situation, or is AfC more akin to a wikiproject whose internal guidelines do not supersede overall policy? and (5) apart from the merits of the concerns raised, has Kafziel addressed those concerns and the editors who have raised them in a fashion appropriate for an administrator, and if not, is he willing to moderate his tone and conduct himself in a more collegial fashion? Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:30, 10 December 2013 (UTC)"> ">
  • Recuse per Kafziel's suggestion in light of the thread to which he refers. Although it is not clear to me that an isolated discussion from seven months ago raises a doubt as to my impartiality in this case, I will step away and allow the other arbitrators to handle the matter. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:24, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
• Accept. Risker (talk) 18:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
• Accept - reviewing the ANI thread and the responses above, it is clear there are issues here that aren't being resolved. Hopefully an arbitration case, if kept to a limited and clear scope, will help sort things out. I will revisit this tomorrow to see if further statements or discussions by arbitrators and others indicate a need to change this view. Carcharoth (talk) 19:03, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Nightscream

Initiated by Beeblebrox (talk) at 23:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Beeblebrox (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• Nightscream (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Salvidrim! (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• Nightscream notified

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• ANI April 2008

Note this comment from Nightscream which precipitated the closure of the thread: " I'll make it a point from now on not to mix conflict participation with administrative actions. I apologize for failing to do so up until now. Nightscream (talk) 03:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)"

• AN February 2009

A very long discussion of a block issued by Nightscream in a situation where they were involved. Partial quote (the discussion is very much in TLDR territory):"I not only do not find the opinion that involved admins are preferred not to be the blocking admins in such disputes, but I explicitly stated that I agree with it...Nightscream (talk) 17:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)"

• ANI September 2009

Note this closing comment from Nightscream regarding the involved admin policy: "I will make sure to read over that policy more carefully. Thanks to everyone here, and you especially, xeno. Nightscream (talk) 01:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)"

• ANI April 2012

Thread regarding Nightscream's understanding of the edit warring policy, among other things.

• Current discussion on their talk page

Regarding the recent edit warring and block for same.

Statement by Beeblebrox

While reviewing unblock requests a few days ago I came across a block placed by Nightscream on User:Rtkat3. The block was for their edits to the article Gotham City. They edited the page on 7 November. Nightscream edited the page themselves, and then issued a two week block on 6 December. I should think it would be obvious what is wrong about that as there is little preventative purpose to issuing a block a month after an action, and Nightscream was involved in editing the same article so blocking at all for anything but obvious vandalism is completely inappropriate. When I went to speak to Nightscream about this I found that they were also blocked at that time for edit warring at the article Jessica Nigri. A close look at the page history reveals that the final edit before the block was made after the page had already been protected by another admin and Nightscream edited through protection in order to restore their preferred version. It is true that the protecting admin another admin also reverted, to a pre-edit war version, after the page was protected corrected per Salvidrim but that does not seem particularly relevant. Any responsible admin will never make substantive edits to a fully-protected article, and especially not to one they were already involved with in an editorial capacity.

If these were isolated, one-off incidents that would be one thing, but a search of AN and ANI archives quickly reveals a long-term pattern of ignoring WP:INVOLVED going back at least five years. Additionally, they seem to believe that if they perceive a violation of any Misplaced Pages policy that their subsequent actions related to that content are not subject to the edit warring policy. This would be bad enough in a "regular" user, it is a dangerous and destructive attitude when coming from an administrator. Above are just a few examples demonstrating this pattern, but this is by no means an exhaustive list.

In short, I do not believe Nightscream should continue to be permitted to serve as an administrator as they do not respect important policies regarding both editorial and administrative actions, they have repeatedly abused thir position of trust in the community, and in recent times have been utterly unrepentant and refused to even acknowledge their errors in judgement. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:13, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Salvidrim

I was involved in the latest issue, as mentioned above by Beeblebrox, but had had no previous interaction with Nightscream and as such have little insight to bring forward as to the pattern of editing other than what I can see from the history presented above. See this section on my talk page for more details about my view of what happened in the past few days. I'd also like Beeblebrox to clarify in his above statement that the protecting admin at Jessica Nigri was not the one that reverted to the last pre-war version; if I hadn't stepped in to revert to the last pre-war version in an administrative decision, Nightscream would not have had the opportunity to revert to his preferred version in an editorial decision, and would have stopped just short of violating WP:3RR. That does not excuse edit warring, nor the attitude surrounding the heated denials that edit warring took place, and obviously does nothing to alleviate concerns brought on by the history of such warring and denial cases, but it's important context for the latest issue in my eyes. Since I know my own block of Nightscream will, clearly, be the subject of scrutiny, I thought it better to come out right away and offer some explanation. Make of that what you will. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 23:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Comments by BOZ

I have to agree that an admin needs to come to WP:AN or WP:AN/I for help from other admins rather than using admin tools in WP:INVOLVED situations. I don't know if that is what has happened here, but I notice that this latest tussle has been with User:Niemti, whom as I have observed is an experienced edit-warrior himself. He has been blocked three times, once for abusing multiple accounts and unblocked three days later, once (by Beeblebrox) for edit warring, and once for personal attacks or harassment. I recall that there was a fair amount of edit warring on his part at Psylocke for example, and note quite a bit of undos there earlier this year, including edit-warring over an image while a discussion was taking place , and edit-warring over categories , and another edit war with User:Lucia Black and TriiipleThreat over images several weeks ago . I'm not excusing anything on Nightscream's part, but if he had to deal with anything like this again from Niemti anywhere else, I can fully understand his frustration. BOZ (talk) 23:53, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved Sjones23

I was unaware of the case until I saw it on my watch list, but I remain uninvolved in this matter and have had no direct confrontation with Nightscream. Nightscream helped edited on Veronica Taylor article by removing unsourced material per WP:BLP/WP:V and protected it for BLP violations. Though the recent edit war on the Jessica Nigri article led to Nightscream (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) being blocked for his actions, my only concern here is that the user has a history of ignoring long-term WP:INVOLVED for five years per Beeblebrox's comments and I think he is being disruptive by abusing administrative tools to further his viewpoint in a content dispute. Abusing administrative tools as an involved administrator can lead to their desysopping for good reason; for example Alkivar (talk · contribs · former admin: blocks · protections · deletions · rights · meta · local rights) was desysopped for abusing his tools back in 2007 per this case. Nightscream, unfortunately, has refused to acknowledge his errors when he makes them. That's what concerns me the most.

So in the end, I think that Nightscream does not have the competence to be an administrator, and I think his attitude is far from being the cool-headed/objective stance that administrators should have when they are in situations of conflict. I urge the committee to ensure that Nightscream does not become a liability to the community. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:46, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Comment by Nightscream

Hi. I hope I'm placing this in the right spot. If I'm not, please let me know. Although I received Beeblebrox's yesterday, I did not see the case here that had been started begun with respect to me; I must've screwed up the search for it somehow. I'll need some time to compose a proper response, which must be juggled with other things going on in the non-virtual world, so please be patient. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 19:10, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Nightscream: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/0/0/4>-Nightscream-2013-12-09T23:37:00.000Z">

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

• Awaiting statement from User:Nightscream, who has edited at least since the notification was placed so is presumably aware of the arbitration request. Carcharoth (talk) 23:37, 9 December 2013 (UTC)"> ">
• Also awaiting a statement from Nightscream. By way of disclosure, I have met him at New York area meet-ups three or four times. We haven't collaborated on anything either on or off wiki, and I don't believe mere acquaintanceship warrants recusal, but I thought I'd mention the fact. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:45, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
• My position on misuse of tools is that once may be a mistake / temporary rush of blood to the head, twice is cause for concern and worth looking into, thrice is a bright line for desysopping. We appear to have two incidents here, so worth looking into - though I'd be interested to see what explanation Nightscream has before formally accepting the case. That there are previous concerns is disturbing, even though these date from four years ago, as they appear to relate to the same concerns being raised now. I suspect that as there were two posts on Nightscream's talkpage that occurred when he was offline, and he removed the second one when he logged back on, so clearing the alert, that he may not be aware of this case request. I'll ping him. SilkTork 09:54, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
• Waiting for Nightscream's comment, but I'm certainly minded to accept this case given the history and the recent situation. Worm(talk) 10:35, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian infobox dispute

Initiated by Kiril Simeonovski (talk) at 00:18, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Kiril Simeonovski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), filing party
• Taivo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Kwamikagami (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• JorisvS (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• Diff User talk:Taivo
• Diff User talk:Kwamikagami
• Diff User talk:JorisvS

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• A request for mediation was rejected after the other parties did not agree to use mediation to solve the dispute.
• The case was reported on the administrators' noticeboard but there was no response from any of the admins and mostly comments by one of the other involved parties who requested to start a new section for discussion. I accepted his/her request and that was the beginning to reach this case.

Statement by Kiril Simeonovski

After accepting the request from user Taivo on the administrators' noticeboard to start a new section for discussion in order to present my points, I started a new thread and described there all the things relating the infobox with my opinion on why these changes are really necessary (diff 1). The first response by Taivo was an overall comment on my most recent proposal and a new section in which he rephrased my proposal in a different (diff 2). I wasn't content with the response, especially not with the overall comment, but decided not to war about it and thereby left a thankful comment and subsequently one with a mild criticism on the tone (diff 3). A discussion commenced over the change in the infobox and user Kwamikagami proposed a modified solution which appeared to be a good compromise in my opinion (diff 4). Another user edited the article and then joined the discussion with mild support for that change (diff 5 and diff 6). I was carefully following the discussion all the time and left a comment discussing some possible scenarios (diff 7), which was briefly asnwered by Kwamikagami as a cogent argument (diff 8). Since there was agreement on that comment and given the direction of the previous discussion, I decided to be bold and make the change on my own (diff 9). In the meantime, user JorisvS joined the discussion to question the change and we started our brief conversation over the change (diff 10, diff 11, diff 12, diff 13, diff 14, diff 15, diff 16), while he/she also made some reverts on my changes in the main article as well (diff 17, diff 18, diff 19, diff 20). But his/her comments were not supported by any sources and my next comment requested to see some and was followed with a list of sources supporting my point (diff 21, diff 22). JorisvS did not revert my edit again after this comment, but Taivo was the one who did it by waving a non-existing consensus apparently reached before (diff 23, please pay attention on these comments from the previous discussion: diff 24, diff 25, diff 26). His/Her comment on the discussion page did not list any reliable sources to counterbalance the views and contained a disregard on my list, although it included works by prominent linguists and experts on the topic such like Friedman, Brozović and Kordić (diff 27). My next two comments replied to his/her disregard, asked for link to the "non-existing" consensus once again and invited the user to check the latest discussion and the compromise over the change (diff 28, diff 29). Kwamikagami joined the discussion to support disregarding my sources attributing them as "travel guides" and "other idiocies" (diff 30, diff 31). Taivo reported me for violating the 3RR after which I was blocked for two days; he/she also posted a comment detailing his/her views with no explanation why it is better than my points that he/she ignored at the very beginning of the discussion (diff 32). Finally, JorisvS agreed with this comment, albeit not paying attention on my points (diff 33). I have nothing else to conclude than just saying that they will always find a way to turn me down, even if they already lack of sources and arguments, use words of mouth about non-existing consensus, have very low regard to reliable sources by prominent authors and use insinuations to get rid of me at any price.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 01:48, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Statement by {Party 2}

Statement by {Party 3}

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Serbo-Croatian infobox dispute: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/5/0/1>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

• I'm wondering if we need to look further into Kiril Simeonovski's overall conduct. I followed the links provided by User:No such user during this discussion, and I'm concerned that Kiril brings up trivial issues, and then refuses to let the matter drop in a WP:Tendentious editing manner. In the Serbo-Croatian incident mentioned above, I'm not impressed by Taivo's incivility - though I wonder how much of that has been caused by exasperation at Kiril Simeonovski's behaviour. Waiting further comments. SilkTork 18:00, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

If nobody, Committee or community, is concerned about Kiril Simeonovski's tendentious editing, then there is nothing really for ArbCom to be looking at. Taivo's incivility is not at the level of an ArbCom case, and the rest of the matter is simply disagreement between Kiril Simeonovski and just about everyone else. I think it appropriate at this point to remind Kiril Simeonovski that Misplaced Pages works by consensus, and that does mean at times accepting that the decision will sometimes go against you, and you need to walk away from it even if you believe strongly that you are right. More harm is caused on Misplaced Pages by editors going on destructive campaigns to correct perceived wrongs than those wrongs remaining on Misplaced Pages. All wrongs get righted eventually - as part of what we are doing we need to accept that Misplaced Pages is not perfect, and not burn down a city in order to get rid of one flea. Decline. SilkTork 14:58, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

• We often remind editors that the Arbitration Committee primarily resolves issues of user conduct, as opposed to making decisions in content disputes. In one way, the filing party here has been unusually circumspect about that rule, in that I read through the request for arbitration several times and it gave me no insight at all into what the underlying content dispute is actually about. On checking the diffs, of course, the issue becomes clearer. As I read it (and I am sure I am eliding the details), the original dispute concerns whether the Torlakian dialect is properly considered a dialect of the Serbo-Croatian language. It appears from the extensive talkpage discussions, among editors who enjoy significant subject-matter knowledge (that most if not all of the arbitrators will lack), that linguists disagree on this issue. It also appears to me that editors have been able to fairly reflect the differences of scholarly opinion in the article itself, and that the locus of dispute centers on the infobox. As was noted by several editors in our recent Infoboxes case, infoboxes (like categories) can require summarizing information in a word or a phrase, even where disputes over that information could fill the entirety of an article. It is necessary for knowledgeable editors to work these things out; it is also important that editors not focus on the exact phrasing of an infobox entry at the expense of developing the substantive knowledge base of the encyclopedia. Beyond these observations, awaiting further statements to see how, if at all, arbitration might help here. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:15, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Leaning toward declining per the other arbs who have commented, but waiting another day to review any additional statements that might come in in the meantime. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:20, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
• Decline. This is primarily a content dispute, perhaps some evidence of tendentious editing. As a suggestion: just because there is the opportunity to include a parameter in the infobox doesn't mean that parameter has to be included. If the parameter relates to something in the article where there are notable divergent opinions, it's probably just best to not include it in the infobox. Risker (talk) 17:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
• Decline per the responses given by Newyorkbrad and Risker. Carcharoth (talk) 15:07, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
• Decline as content dispute and per above comments. Worm(talk) 10:31, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
• Decline Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 18:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)