Talk:Population exchange between Greek and Turkish Cypriots

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Objection

You reverted "the war in 1974" to "the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974". This clearly violates the Misplaced Pages's neutrality and objectivity principles.

When "the war in 1974" is used, only Turkish Cypriots who uses the phrase "peace operation" may object.
When "the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974" is used, there are many who can object. Notice, there are following PACE and Greece's Athens Court of Appeals decisions. Do you know PACE?

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE): (29.07.1974, Res. 573) "Turkish military intervention was the exercise of a right emanating from an international Treaty and the fulfilment of a legal and moral obligation."

Greece's Athens Court of Appeals (21.03.1979): "The Turkish military intervention in Cyprus, which was carried out in accordance with the Zurich and London Accords, was legal".

Do you want sources? So, when there is a dispute somewhere somehow, Misplaced Pages must approach very cautiously.

I will also declare this situation in related Misplaced Pages board. I will suggest the change of the article name "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" since there is serious pre-conditioning of Wikipedians there!.Alexyflemming (talk) 20:40, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Nonsense. It is the WP:COMMONNAME of the invasion. That's what's called by the majority of the reliable sources. As far as the invasion being legal that's what multiple socks of Justice Forever kept saying: , . Strange coincidence, isn't it? Δρ.Κ. 21:15, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

To justify yourself in your difficult edits about Cyprus/Northern Cyprus issue, you are almost always referring to the opposers of your edits by accusing all of them to be a sockpuppettry of justice forever. Strange coincidence, isn't it? Here are the proofs:

These are your edits in User talk:Lfdder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=594339462&oldid=594339422
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=prev&oldid=594339249
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=prev&oldid=594335726
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=prev&oldid=594280016

These are your edits in Talk:Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots:
Notice, you added the thing "As far as the invasion being legal that's what multiple socks of Justice Forever kept saying" as an extra edit ( https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots&diff=594443187&oldid=594422649 ). Posssibly, you do not trust enough your arguement of WP:COMMONNAME. Here are what Misplaced Pages says:

Non-neutral but common names https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME#Non-neutral_but_common_names
Notable circumstances under which Misplaced Pages often avoids a common name for lacking neutrality include the following:
1. Trendy slogans and monikers that seem unlikely to be remembered or connected with a particular issue years later
2. Colloquialisms where far more encyclopedic alternatives are obvious

It is better to change the article name "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" to something else:
"Cyprus war in 1974"
"1974 Cyprus war" as in "2013-14 Euroleague"
or other better alternatives.

Alexyflemming (talk) 08:11, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Somehow you forgot to mention the main clause: In such cases, the prevalence of the name ... generally overrides concern that Misplaced Pages might appear as endorsing one side of an issue. The prevalence of the name "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" for what happened in 1974 is so obvious in English language literature that it is the only possible choice for the title. --T*U (talk) 09:26, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

As you state: "...generally overries...", not "...always overrides..."!. Also, English language literature well metions the events of that period as "the war in 1974" as well. Hence, "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" is not the only possible choice for the title. Think the above PACE and Greece's Athens Court of Appeals as well. For the word "invasion" to be used, the followings must not be existed:

1. Turkey's Army has no right to have been in Cyprus, even to the minimal extent. Fact: The 1960 Cyprus Constitution itself allows the occurance of Turkey's Army in Cyprus!
2. Turkey's Army has no right to attack to Cyprus. Fact: Treaty of Guarantee in 1960 Cyprus Constitution gives Turkey's right to attack. Even, PACE (Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe) accepted and declared that right.
3. The opponents of the dispute must stick to the phrases and arguements they defend. Notice, even the Greece's court call it legal and intervention!
There are numerous other logical arguements against the usage of the word "invasion" for the war in Misplaced Pages.
Alexyflemming (talk) 11:26, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Comparing the use of "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" with "Cyprus war" in books might give a clue to what is the Common name of the events: link. --T*U (talk) 13:25, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Your Google Books Ngram Viewer (link) shows sharp and constant decline in 1979 when Greece's highest court qualified the 1974 event as "legal" and "intervention". By the way, please be aware (and do not confuse) that I am not defending the usage of "intervention", I am defending the not to qualify the war in any way (intervention includes!)! You seem to miss this point, I think!Alexyflemming (talk) 16:02, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

He is not missing any point. You are missing the point that this is the WP:COMMONNAME for the article and has been so historically and your interpretation shows sharp and constant decline in 1979 when Greece's highest court qualified the 1974 event as "legal" and "intervention". is original unproven research, which does not matter in any case because the invasion is by far the most common name used in the reliable sources. Δρ.Κ. 16:23, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thank you TU-nor. This is the usual MO of this user. Constant arguments which defy various Misplaced Pages policies including WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, and in this case WP:COMMONNAME. Remarkably, the arguments used, reflect faithfully the historical arguments of Justice Forever and his many socks. It is getting disruptive. Δρ.Κ. 16:23, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Alexyflemming: To justify yourself in your difficult edits about Cyprus/Northern Cyprus issue, you are almost always referring to the opposers of your edits by accusing all of them to be a sockpuppettry of justice forever. Strange coincidence, isn't it?

No, my edits are not difficult at all. Nobody agrees with you. You keep adding walls of text with information nobody agrees with. That should give you the message to stop your disruption. But it does not. Again, Justice Forever and his socks behaved in exactly the same way. Strange coincidence, isn't it? Δρ.Κ. 16:23, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

You continuously and insistingly accuse me to be sockpuppettry of some other man.

Dr. K., you say "Nobody agrees with you". To become modest and humble in this world is not a bad thing, is it?. Are you everybody? You seem to see yourself as everybody.
Proof: See this page above: I am talking with T*U, and saying him "...You seem to miss this point...". You (Dr. K.) reply "...He is not missing any point...". You put yourself to the T*U's place. Are you T*U? Don't T*U have any mind and thought to reply me? Perhaps, T*U may disprove my thoughts and arguments better than you. If you put yourself to the place of everybody in Wiki world, then definitely your "Nobody agrees with you" makes sense!

Then, against your non-stopping and countless accusations, I even feared that someone else may block me without my disproving your claims. Fortunately, some Wikipedians acting with common sense and prudence, allowed me enough time to reply your millions of accusations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592735526

I replied to your countless accusations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592766108
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592771272
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592772379
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592773832

After my above defence, you continued to attack me with your new claims:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592780998

Against your new further accusations, I defended myself (look the edit summary: Further accusations and further proofs):
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592796962

Misplaced Pages authorities analyzed both your accusations and my defence. And, your claims found to be inconvincing. The case was closed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever&diff=next&oldid=592803341

I hoped you would stop your sockpuppetrry accusations towards me; I hoped you stop insults to me. You continued to your accusations whereever you find: here are the places you accused me: User talk:Lfdder, Talk:Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots

These are your edits in User talk:Lfdder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=594339462&oldid=594339422
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=prev&oldid=594339249
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=prev&oldid=594335726
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Lfdder&diff=prev&oldid=594280016

These are your edits in Talk:Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots:
"As far as the invasion being legal that's what multiple socks of Justice Forever kept saying" :
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots&diff=594443187&oldid=594422649 ).

"This is the usual MO of this user. Constant arguments which defy various Misplaced Pages policies including WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, and in this case WP:COMMONNAME. Remarkably, the arguments used, reflect faithfully the historical arguments of Justice Forever and his many socks. It is getting disruptive":
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots&diff=594533973&oldid=594531437

I kindly alerted you that the place of sockpuppetrry accusations are not the Talk pages of articles or Talk pages of other Wikipedians. I alerted you to make such accusations in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Alexyflemming
https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Justice_Forever

Furthermore, I think most importantly of all, you are building and collecting "proofs" (in quotation!) from various places and various arguements to use against me in directing me a new sockpuppettry accusation. You even highlight them with different color and text style like (I collected your embellished text from various places):
shows sharp and constant decline in 1979 when Greece's highest court qualified the 1974 event as "legal" and "intervention".
To justify yourself in your difficult edits about Cyprus/Northern Cyprus issue, you are almost always referring to the opposers of your edits by accusing all of them to be a sockpuppettry of justice forever. Strange coincidence, isn't it?
By counter thinking, Lfdder, Chipmunkdavis, you (Dr.K.) seem to defend the similar arguments. Though I did not check your IPs, I do not think you are all the same people.

What does all of these efforts, countless accusations, insults show? OBSESSION! OBSESSION!

(By the way, since my academic career, I had a break in my Misplaced Pages during 2011-2013; defending towards your numerous accusations and insults, I remembered and learnt Misplaced Pages syntax a little further. Though there are myriad things I have to learn: you are accusing me WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, WP:COMMONNAME-violations. You enlighten me what I should deeply learn next!)Alexyflemming (talk) 19:12, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Ah, text-bombing the talkpage. Looks familiar. Where have I seen this before? Old habits die hard, I guess. Δρ.Κ. 05:52, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Redirect Attempt

The article was tried to be redirected to Cyprus dispute#Division of the island:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Population_exchange_between_Greek_and_Turkish_Cypriots&diff=595850384&oldid=595850115
without any consensus.

The article includes an agreement between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots; the directed page lacks it. Redirect many things here to there removes valuable infos. There is no consensus for redirecting.Alexyflemming (talk) 09:42, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't need to seek consensus before attempting to redirect. WP:BRD The agreement's referenced in Cyprus dispute. We're not about to have the original text of every agreement that's ever been made in a separate article. — Lfdder (talk) 09:47, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Redirect

I suggest this page is redirected to Cyprus dispute#Division of the island where the matter's addressed in context. There's hardly any content here, and the little there isn't unique to this page. — Lfdder (talk) 09:44, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Strong Oppose:

The article here includes the "Population Exchange Agreement between Greek and Turkish Cypriots" (which is under auspieces of United Nations).
The article here includes "aftermath" of the "Population Exchange Agreement between Greek and Turkish Cypriots".
There is no need to inflate the section Cyprus dispute#Division of the island with bulk of knowledge.

These are the first things for rejecting the redirect. There are many others as well.Alexyflemming (talk) 09:52, 17 February 2014 (UTC)