Talk:Jérôme Lejeune - Misplaced Pages

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Untitled

Bibliographical details of Concentration Can expanded to include publisher and ISBN. Also incorporated Tiniest Humans (1977) into bibliography, and linked to an online edition.

User Calibanu 13:08, 12 April 2006.

I added the fact that the initial discovery of the extra chromosome was a Marthe Gautier's discovery (see the La recherche article).

Role of Marthe Gautier in the discovery of trisomy 21?

There seems to be substantial and very credible evidence that trisomy 21 was actually discovered by Marthe Gautier, and that Jerome Lejeune inappropriately claimed credit for this. See this interview (http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/engel/130306) and this newspaper article (http://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2014/02/03/trisomie-une-pionniere-intimidee_4359331_1650684.html).

If these allegations are correct than this very hagiographic article about Dr. Lejeune needs extensive revision.Rosieredfield (talk) 23:01, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this article needs extensive revision, however it seems to me that the question of his and Marthe's exact role in the discovery remains controversial and, thus, we should aim to reflect the disputed nature of the discovery in the article rather than adopting one view or the other uncritically. JackAidley (talk) 14:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree - I haven't been able to find definitive evidence either way. (I would like to find out whether the French human geneticists (FFGH) did any investigation before deciding to give Gautier the award.) Rosieredfield (talk) 22:50, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

OK, I've toned down some of the adulatory language and reorganized the material a bit. And here are links to two news-type articles in scientific journals about this controversy: one in Nature and one in Science Rosieredfield (talk) 01:25, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. There needs to be more reliable sources. Substantial claims require substantial evidence. From what I can see, RenewAmerica.com is not a reliable source per Misplaced Pages:Verifibility and the other site you linked is behind a pay wall. Per Misplaced Pages:Verifiability#Access_to_sources, could you provide access to that site so we may better attempt to verify this claim? Ging287 (talk) 14:35, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

"Le Monde" is the most respected newspaper in France - it is hard to find a better more reliable source. Of course there are more newspaper sources - to name just a few (from the conservative La Croix to the left wing La Liberation)

There can be no doubt about the fact that Lejeune has a part in discovering the genetic cause of the Down Syndrom. The controversy is about how much of the research has been achieved by Marthe Gautier and whether or not she did get credit for it. --christophe (talk) 15:08, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

The current wording, "Marthe Gautier criticized Jérôme Lejeune publicly for claiming full credit for the discovery without specifying that the laboratory work was essentially hers." appears to be taking a position on the issue, and has somewhat informal language. I suggest it be changed to "Marthe Gautier accused Jérôme Lejeune publicly for claiming full credit for the discovery, and has stated that the laboratory work was hers." or something to that degree. Unless we can prove that the lab work was definitely hers, we shouldn't take a position. Also 3 of the 4 listed sources appear to be just separate coverage of the same story which seems redundant to me. 2001:44B8:3187:E900:9161:5DFC:D9A0:64E (talk) 08:54, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

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