User talk:Cullen328/Archive 17

< User talk:Cullen328

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This is an archive of past discussions with User:Cullen328. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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New contributor introduction

Hello Jim,

My name is Jerry Cohen. I’m a new, aspiring contributor who is finding himself in need of a mentor. From what you have written about yourself, I can see my subject is most likely not part of your expertise however, I believe you still may be the perfect person to help me. You and I are about the same age and therefore have certain life experiences behind us the younger folk do not. Handling this definitely needs someone with a mature viewpoint. I’m totally open to criticism.

I’ve followed and deeply researched the subject of UFO’s for years. (Since 1967) I have a website that has been on-line since 1997. I never thought I’d be thinking of contributing to an encyclopedia.

The notion came about as I was referencing one of my cases to see what Misplaced Pages had to say about it. I was surprised to find that what was on the page was actually biased, poorly researched, and not accurate to the really thorough material I had gathered concerning same. I realized that from what I know as provable fact, I might be the perfect person in a position to possibly improve that particular page. Rjc1 (talk) 15:15, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Rjc1. I can't be a formal mentor to you, as that is a very time-consuming process, and I am already mentoring another editor.

Rjc1. Of course, I understand. I realize I'm not doing this right yet. But I'm only writing this way for expedience at the moment . . .

Cullen328. I took a brief look at your website. What I will agree to do is try to answer any sincere question you have about editing Misplaced Pages.

Rjc1. Thank you, Jim

Cullen328. Although I claim no UFO expertise, I read several books on the topic in the 1970s and have a general understanding of the issues.

First of all, I highly recommend that you read WP:FRINGE. UFOs are considered a fringe topic, and you should be aware that we have many editors committed to ensuring that Misplaced Pages does not include any endorsement or advocacy of fringe views. This is not negotiable.

Rjc1. Nor do I expect it to be. I wouldn't ask this of you or myself.

Cullen328. Then, I recommend that you read WP:NPOV which restricts your ability to advance your specific point of view.

Rjc1. Yes, I've bookmarked this and am in the process of reading it. I am aware of the entire upper part of that page and have tailored my arguments with all of this in mind. I am now reading the parts I have not familiarized myself with as of yet. I have no intention of advancing _my_ specific point of view. This was an assumption on your part. The things I will be talking about are extremely specific . I can guarantee you will be surprised when you become aware of them.

Cullen328. Since you mention documents you have gathered, I recommend that you read WP:OR which explains that Misplaced Pages does not publish original research.

Rjc1. I am totally aware of that. What I am here to discuss is absolutely not my original research. Actually it is about someone else's "original research." I am here to defend status-quo. I will be able to address this when I am totally familiar with this medium. I have taken that completely into consideration before starting this conversation. I would not put any of us in that position.

Cullen328. What you claim to know as a "provable fact" has no place on Misplaced Pages,

Rjc1. First of all, it is not simply my "claim." I would think one must know what the fact is and where it is from before one can make a reasonable decision concerning same. If the dissenting fact(s) is (are) directly from the source the Misplaced Pages has referenced, that should be quite important and make a difference.

Cullen328. . . and will be removed on sight by other editors, including me. We summarize only what reliable sources say about a topic, and a self-published website such as yours is not a reliable source.

Rjc1. I believe I can prove beyond reasonable doubt any documented material at my site is totally reliable.

Cullen328. A good introduction to editing Misplaced Pages can be found at WP:PRIMER. You are welcome to edit in accordance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines,

Rjc1. I had no intention of editing anything before my case is examined by respected administrators and most agree with me. I am hoping the administrators will at least be willing to look at what I have found and not simply exclude it on a technicality, before examining same. Again, it is _not_ MY original research I am asking them to look at.

Cullen328. but this is not a website where advocacy of fringe topics is accepted. As a matter of fact, many editors will be quite aggressive in opposing that.

Rjc1. I can certainly understand this. The only thing I advocate is what the majority agree is accepted fact.

Cullen328. You alluded to a specific article where you see problems. Please mention the name of that article, and describe your concerns in more detail. I will be happy to review that article and give you my opinion about how it can be improved.

Rjc1. I'll be able to get to this as soon as I come to grips with becoming comfortable in this new (for me) medium. Otherwise I am at an incredible disadvantage. My argument is ready but there are a number of questions I still have to ask and a little practice to do first. Thanks for listening Jim. Respectfully, Rjc1 (talk) 05:38, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Take care. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:35, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

- - -

Rjc1, we don't publish original research by anyone, whether it is by you or someone who won the Nobel Prize for physics. We summarize what reliable, independent sources say about a topic.

Rjc1. That is not exactly accurate, and I'm not here to publish "original research." I plan to address that and the issue of reliability and how it is determined. This is obviously necessary for me to eventually be considered as reliable. But I still need some answers to a few more questions regarding the how the text editor works and communication in general. I can't begin without them.

Your self-published website will never be accepted as a reliable source here on Misplaced Pages, other than as a source for your own personal opinions. Period. Full stop. Please understand that administrators have no special powers whatsoever regarding content here on Misplaced Pages.

Rjc1. Jim, I am not asking anyone, anywhere to give a blanket O.K. to my entire website. However, please don't take this the wrong way. With absolutely no disrespect to you, who would I talk to that does has some powers regarding content problems within Wiki?

Administrators deal with technical matters including enforcing behavioral norms, but my opinion as an experienced editor on content matters is equal to that of any administrator. Our core content policies are not "technicalities" but are instead the very things that have enabled us to create the sixth most popular website in the world,

Rjc1. That is excellent. If you'll permit me, I'll come back to this later. I really need to ask those questions. Rjc1 (talk) 18:14, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

far away the first when it comes to original content.

They are not negotiable. Cullen Let's discuss it 05:55, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Rjc1. Jim, here are those questions. (about 12 altogether - a few at a time)

1) Was what I have edited so far readable and in an acceptable form?

2) To properly explain the need for a change on that page and to, down the line, possibly verify myself as an accurate, reliable authority on the subject, it is essential that whatever medium I write in will allow me to use html’s. Do normal talk pages permit this?

3) I noticed the sandbox. Is that a place I can go that will allow me to practice using Wiki’s text editor and then be able to see the finalized text that would appear on that talk page? i.e. I would like to put the code onto the page (htmls, etc.) and then be able to see the finished product appear, as the person on the other end would see it on his page. Can this be done?

3a) Will the reader be able to click on a link and automatically go to it? (yes/no) This is extremely important for my presentation. Rjc1 (talk)

1) You are interspersing or mingling your comments in with mine. That is not good practice, but I understand what you are trying to do. It is best in most cases to add new content below an older comment.

2)We use wikicode, not HTML. You can link to an exterior site on a talk page. Since we rely on summarizing reliable sources, "reliable" is a word that we use to evaluate sources not editors. Editors are evaluated other editors based on their adherence to policies and guidelines, and their behavior, not on their expertise or "reliability". In other words, I know almost nothing about the history of Arkansas. But if I find a book in a used bookstore, published by a university press, with plenty of information about a 19th century Arkansas senator, I can write a biography of that person by summarizing the reliable source, and other such sources I might find. It is the authors of the original sources who are reliable. I am a summarizer.

3) Your sandbox is for any experimentation that is for the purpose of improving the encyclopedia.

3a) If you format a link properly, a reader will be able to click on it. The links you add must comply with policies and guidelines. Cullen Let's discuss it 19:12, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Rjc1

Jim,

Sorry, I didn’t realize the complication of simply talking to you as a new user. I apologize in advance for most-likely boring you with these most basic questions. Just trying to learn the medium here. I have created a Wiki account. I most likely need a specific order of things to do to set myself up here.

1) After I log-in and click “You have new messages” what am I supposed to see?

2) After I read what you have said, what exact steps to I take to talk to you?

3) I accidentally engaged “watch list" which I thought would help me follow our conversation. I seem to have other things on there I did not want. I simply wanted to follow our conversation. What should I do? Rjc1 (talk) 03:44, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

4) In "Editing User talk:Cullen328 (new section): What does clicking "Watch this page" accomplish?

Hello again Rjc1. I do not mind your questions. If you stick around, this will all become second nature very quickly.

Rjc1. Believe it or not, I've worked up to this point my entire life. I'm not going anywhere (except to break for family things like this A.M.) I'll stick around as long as you allow. If you'll permit . . I'll be continuing with my questions, but my son is coming over this morning with my autistic grandson. I'm not sure how much of this day is going to be absorbed by that. Going out to get food.

Cullen328 Let me try to help.

1) When you see "You have new messages", take a look at your own talk page. That is where messages of that type will appear.

2) The most common way to respond to a comment directed at you is to click.the "edit" option for that section, scroll to the bottom of the wikicode, and reply. Convention calls for progressively indenting each comment by starting with one colon ":" for the first reply, two "::" for the second, and so on. Never try to indent with blank spaces. That screws up the display.

3) Your watchlist is a list of pages you are monitoring. I wouldn't worry if the software has added your own pages to the list. That is normal.

4) Clicking "watch this page" simply adds any page that interests you to your watch list. You can click the icon again at any time to remove any page that doesn't interest you. The watch list displays the most recent changes to all those pages, and is a very useful tool for active editors. You can customize this tool in various ways, and edit it manually as well.

Hope this helps. Cullen Let's discuss it 04:01, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Jim. What you are saying is definitely helping.

5) What is the difference between Rjc1 User Talk (my user page) and Talk (my talk page)? How do I set them up? What is the function of each?

6) In using increasing colons, aren't we going to eventually run out of horizontal page space? (Going out with my family for the rest of the day.) Rjc1 (talk) 20:27, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

5) Your user page (now empty) is for describing yourself to other editors as a Misplaced Pages editor. If you write something on that page, your signature will change from red (which hints "newbie"), to blue. You can customize your signature like I do if you want. On your user page, you can mention how long you have been editing, your areas of interest, articles you've worked on, and the like. Some basic biographical information is OK if you want. But promotional material will probably be removed. Your talk page is for conversing with other editors. No "setup" is required for either, though some editors format their pages in a fancy fashion. That's optional.

6)Yes, if a conversation goes on long enough, the column gets narrow on the right side. At that point, you can reply with no colons and begin the numbering of the colons all over. Some editors insert an arrow to indicate that, but I don't even know the code for doing that. It is pretty clear in context.

Have a nice visit with your family. Cullen Let's discuss it 20:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The code for that cute little arrow is {{od}} or {{outdent}}. --MelanieN (talk) 21:00, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Let's try it. MelanieN, you see, is a good talk page stalker, not a bad one. Cullen Let's discuss it 21:05, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

how to create personal biography

I thought to recreate my personal biography. I have an register account in wiki. i didnt find any options to create a biography. so am in need of full process of creating personal biography

Gary Anandasangaree (talk) 05:06, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Gary Anandasangaree. Trying to write a Misplaced Pages biography of yourself is unwise, and will almost always lead to problems. If you truly believe that you are notable, then try the Articles for Creation process. You can write a brief profile of yourself on your own user page, talking about yourself as a Misplaced Pages editor. This should include no promotional material, and nothing that has been cut and pasted from any copyrighted source. Good luck. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:20, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Excuse me for butting in here. I am what we call a "talk page stalker", which means I read Cullen's talk page, and occasionally I chime in with a comment. Gary, I see that you did once create a "personal biography" here, on your userpage User:Gary Anandasangaree, but it got deleted. The reason it was deleted was that 1) it seemed to promote something, maybe a business or some such, and 2) it seemed to be copied from somewhere else. Those are both no-nos. If you want to start over, you can. Just click on the redlink User:Gary Anandasangaree, and start writing. But this time, don't copy from anywhere else, and don't promote anything. You could start slow by just typing "Hi, I'm Gary Anandasangaree" and click "save" just to see how it works. You can add to it as often as you like, just be careful to stay within Misplaced Pages's guidelines. Also, don't post any personal information like your address, phone number or email (but if you've been around the internet for a while, you probably already know that). --MelanieN (talk) 21:10, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Michael Thompson (Aryan Brotherhood)

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Michael Thompson (Aryan Brotherhood). Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Misplaced Pages:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit on Israeli Salad page

As the article states, "Israeli Salad" is "similar" (COPY) of other salads in the region; absent any change in the Dish, why does Israeli rate its own version of the dish? Those countries mentioned have been around for thousands of years. Israel has been around for 60 years. If its "dish" and I use the term loosely here, is in fact a copy of existing dishes - and makes no alterations, then either the page should note in CLEAR TERMINOLOGY in the introductory salad that "Israeli Salad" is a direct copy of regional dishes, or perhaps the entire Israeli Salad page should be deleted. Several people have noted cultural appropriation; each of those edits has been reverted.

It is one thing to pick a neutral tone; it is another to publish misleading information. Israeli couscous for instance, is an Israeli invention (its crap, and a pale imitation) but thats besides the point - to have such a page is appropriate; but Israeli Salad? Come now. Whats next, trademark's and cultural heritage registrations for an ARAB dish?

Be serious. Please clearly indicate in whatever language you like, in the first section, that this dish is a direct copy and import from a staple dish in the region.

Anything short of this is disingenuous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.176.137 (talk) 02:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Please do not editorialize within the body of a Misplaced Pages article. I have reverted your inappropriate addition to the article. Use the article talk page instead.

As to the substance of your argument, this particular salad cannot possibly be thousands of years old, since it is based on tomatoes which originated in America, and were unknown in Eurasian cuisines until well after the time of Columbus. All cuisines are interrelated and borrow from one another. The article already acknowledges the connections between Israeli and Arab versions. Greeks, Turks, Persians and Indians all have similar dishes. None are ancient, since all are based on tomatoes. Chopping raw tomatoes and cucumbers together is common and self evident to cooks worldwide, and while wonderful, is not exactly haute cuisine. Misplaced Pages is not the place to settle culinary scores or right great culinary wrongs. We can and should have several articles about similar dishes within the context of various ethnic cuisines. Please do not continue your argumentative style. Cullen Let's discuss it 02:44, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Our article Tomato makes it clear that tomatoes were not cultivated in the Middle East until the mid-19th century. Coincidentally, though Jews have lived in what is now Israel since ancient times, significant Jewish resettlement of that area began in the mid-19th century. Cullen Let's discuss it 02:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

---

First I said the CULTURES are thousands of years old. Second tomatoes were introduced into Ottoman empire in the **seventeenth century**. So you're comparing a recent state STEALING a dish and claiming as its own, to several hundred years of cultural heritage of the region; this would be akin to the Americans claiming that Parmigiano Reggiano is in AMERICAN cheese. Third, your personal opinion on the simplicity of the dish is no more valid than stating that herbs de provencal is just a mixture - ** it is a signature mixture in the region **. Fourth, YEAH IT IS; your articles are supposed to be accurate - absent any change in the dish, its insulting to have attempts at clearly stating the dishes origin deleted. This country is less than 60 years old, the dish is identical - why not redirect to the Arab or Turkish equivalent? THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE, and further, there is _clearly_ a history of complaints regarding this abusive entry. If this is the level of expertise you contribute in your editing, its no wonder the articles on wikipedia suck so badly. NEVER give up substance for neutrality. Either mark it up properly, delete the article, or redirect it to the proper authentic version that the israeli version copies. This garbage about an Israeli version is _complete_ hokum. Next you'll tell me a BLT in Isreal is an Israeli BLT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.176.137 (talk) 05:17, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Than this will be a lovely time to correct that article as well:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=vDQTAgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=history+of+plant+introduction+for+tomatoes&ots=XUritIdu2s&sig=bNExG1AfBEPOGYiXWpKvj-G9_5s#v=onepage&q&f=false

Tomatoes rank fourth among the leading world vegetables. In 2001, over 100 million metric tons were produced, with the 15 leading countries being (in descending order) China, US, India, **Turkey**, **Egypt**, Italy, Spain, Brazil, **Iran**, Mexico, **Greece**, Russia, Ukraine, Chile and Uzbekistan (FAO 20002, FIG 1.1)

ABSENT from that list of top tomato producing countries is...... Israel. PRESENT in that list is Egypt, Turkey, Iran. HMMM. Might that indicate who Arab/Turkish "salad" is a staple in their country?

http://books.google.com/books?id=1jE5k5qeKbgC&pg=PA32&dq=history+of++tomatoes+in+the+middle+east&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XsHEU-ShMoiRyASeqIKQCw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=history%20of%20%20tomatoes%20in%20the%20middle%20east&f=false

As the tomato, like the potato, comes from the America's, it also has a short history in Near and Middle Eastern and North African cusine. Tomatoes were imported into the Ottoman Empire in the seventeenth centry and spread from Istanbul to many of its provinces. Tomatoes are now one of the main food exports of many Near and Middle Estern and North African Countries.

and I might add, if you are seriously arguing that tomatoes in a shephards salad _shouldn't_ be considered a staple of that region, then you must admit that _they cannot be an Israeli dish_.

Furthermore, your history itself specifically quotes Israeli's themselves indicating its a straight up copy.

Fix the article by redirecting to an Arab salad (which already exists), or explicitly make it clear that Israeli salad is _nothing more_ than a copy in the first paragraph.

Look I ain't telling you not to feature Israeli cuisine. But it should be _Israeli cuisine_ such as Israeli couscous. I'm not the only person thats complained about it. Sticking Israeli in front of Middle Eastern food is nothing more than a straight up theft; and by propogating this disinformation you are _not_ doing wikipedia or its readers a service.

You are tendentious, argumentative, and have a massive chip on your shoulder. Your capitalized shouting about "stealing" is as absurd as if somebody set out to picket American pizza parlors or Thai restaurants, accusing them of stealing. Then, we can picket all the French hamburger joints. Get a life. Someone fried a chicken before Americans did, after all. By the way, I didn't write the article about Israeli salad, so if you think my articles are bad, please critique the ones I've actually written, and list the ones you've written. If you have a better understanding of the dispersal of tomatoes around the world, then improve the article Tomato instead of bitching and moaning. And citing tomato production statistics in countries with populations FAR larger than Israel's is, well, absurd is the word that comes to mind. Or should we rename "Arab salad" to Chinese salad or American salad? Study some logic, please. Aggressive, tendentious editing will not be tolerated here, so rethink your approach, please. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:17, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

The excellent source on the history of the tomato that you cited states that the tomato did not gain economic importance as a food product until the late 19th or early 20th century. The same source mentions that tomatoes are now an economically important crop in many countries, including Israel. You see, you can't get away with cherry-picking sources on my talk page. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:39, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

adding my book to reference/further reading

Hi,

This is Eric Niderost, history teacher and writer at Chabot College, Hayward,, CA in the Bay Area. Don't mean to sound like a 'commercial" but I have a new book out SONNETS AND SUNSPOTS; "Dr Research" Baxter and the Bell Science Films published in may 2014. I would like to simply add my book to the further reading/reference sections of several wiki articles, but don't know how to do it--and I have tried. I need a "quick fix" if possible, because my book is out now--and there are at least a half-dozen articles that I could attach my book to-- Bell Laboratory Films, Dr Frank Baxter, and others. How do I do this? thanksBaxterfan88 (talk) 01:56, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Baxterfan88. This is a really bad idea, and I encourage you not to do it. This type of editing is considered spamming, and could possibly lead to a block on your account. Please familiarize yourself with our guideline on conflict of interest, and read WP:SELFCITE as well. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:11, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
	kindly tell me me how i write article in wikipedia, how i add pic and how i publish it ??????? writer slubna khan (talk) 06:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Writer slubna khan. I recommend that you read the A Primer for beginners, which should answer most of your questions. Please feel free to ask more specific questions at The Teahouse, or right here on my talk page. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:33, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Page Creation

Hello & thank you for your speedy response. Can you please create a page for Jalen Mcmillan? I am unsure how to create this page, and by now he is surely notable.

Once again, I can not thank you enough for your support & quick help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by DerekHoytink (talk • contribs) 07:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello there, DerekHoytink. Why do you think that I am interested in writing an article about this person? This is not an "edit on request" service. I have never heard of this person, but you obviously have. You state "by now he is surely notable" without furnishing a shred of evidence of his notability. What you need to realize is that experienced Misplaced Pages editors respond to evidence of notability, namely, significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. So, go read and study our policies and guidelines. Links have been provided to you. Once you understand all that, modify your draft with all that in mind. Or abandon it. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for responding to my question at the Teahouse. It seems that your reply was deleted (most likely by accident) by an editor named Sionk. So, I am not sure if it is even appropriate to reply to your reply, or if it is then where I should do so. - Marchjuly (talk) 07:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry Cullen328, I've no idea what happened there. When I replied there was no other response to Marchjuly's question. Very bizarre! Sionk (talk) 11:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes things happen. If you have any comments on what I wrote, Marchjuly, please leave them here. Cullen Let's discuss it 15:24, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

OK Cullen328. I'm not sure if you remember this, but awhile back this question was asked at the Teahouse. The editor (Alla Bozarth) was talking about the article Philadelphia Eleven. When I asked Ms. Bozarth if she one of the persons mentioned in the article she freely replied that she was. So in my reply to her question, I informed her that this could be seen as a conflict of interest and possibly led other editors to question her neutrality. I gave her a few Wikilinks where should could find more detailed information on "editing with a conflict of interest", etc. and that was the end of the discussion. I added the article to my watchlist and have been checking on it ever since.

Ms. Bozarth has continued editing the article even though she didn't declare her conflict of interest on the article's talk page, but since most of her edits did not seem disruptive to me I figured it was no big deal. Also, up until recently, she had been pretty much the only person working on the article. Recently, however, others have started working on it as well. One editor in particular, named "Scholarwise", has made 14 edits to the article over the past few days; In fact, the only edits made by this person on Wikpedia have been to the "Philadelphia Eleven" article. This, of course, might be just a coincidence, but the writing style and edit sums seem quite similar to those of Ms. Bozarth. In addition, the edit sums for diffs such as this and this make me concerned that this person may be trying to push a certain point of view and may also be closely connected to some of the people mentioned in the article. Furthermore, it seems like the references added by "Scholarwise" to support the edits they have made are for books/interviews/websites written, given or created by Ms. Bozwarth.

Now, personally, I don't believe any of this is being done in bad faith; it just seems like somebody eagerly wants their story (or the story of somebody they know well) to be told "correctly". However, no matter how good their intentions may be, it does seem like an attempt, at least to me, to lead the article in a particular direction: a direction which seems to be based more on original research (personal experiences) and primary sources than upon verifiable secondary sources. I may be completely wrong on all this (which is why I'm sort of reluctant to post on the article's talk page, etc.), but it does seem a little out of the ordinary to me. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read through the above mess. - Marchjuly (talk) 06:32, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to my talk page, Marchjuly, and I do not even need to look at your links as I remember the Teahouse question, and I read the article, the talk page and the user page at that time. I agree with you that the person(s) in question are acting mostly in good faith, but also with a trace of self-promotionalism. I have not reviewed the recent edits, because it is almost my bedtime. But even more so because the way you have framed your question, and my other observations of your editing, convince me that you are reporting accurately and are committed to this encyclopedia and its policies and guidelines.

So, there is no easy answer in a case like this. You have to ask yourself how much work you are prepared to do to straighten the situation out. Sometimes, I have said to myself, hey, the article in question is low visibility, the problems are relatively minor, I lack topic expertise, there are over 4.5 million articles. Let it slide. But on the other hand, this could be a perfect opportunity for you to assert yourself, explain policy, and if necessary, enforce policy.

You are an editor with "clue", if you know what I mean. If you want to take this on, I guess that I recommend you do so boldly. Go through that article and remove all the assertions that are not properly referenced. Explain why on the talk page, linking to relevant policies and guidelines. Invite article talk page discussion on the editor talk pages. Do not mention sockpuppet concerns until and unless you are prepared to file a formal sockpuppet report. Engage the other person with the goal of improving the encyclopedia, not bickering. And feel free to ask me other questions if you do choose. Take care. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:53, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice and kind words. Rushing in loaded for bear with guns blazing is typically not my style. The article in question is definitely a low visibility one, and I am certainly no expert on the subject matter so letting it slide is definitely an attractive option. You've given me quite a few things to think about. Thanks again for the input

- Marchjuly (talk) 07:19, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

I hope it didn't seem like I was accusing you of doing something improper Sionk. That certainly wasn't my intention. I figured it was really just some kind of glitch. I just wasn't sure if it was proper for me to re-add Cullen's reply to my Teahouse question and then reply there.- Marchjuly (talk) 07:27, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

No problem. The article in question certainly has problems. There's certainly a bit of POV pushing, for example the first two lengthy paragraphs of the "Background" which could be cut to a couple of sentences. I would also be very concerned about the biography of Bozarth, which is very lengthy and completely unreferenced, definitely falling well short of what is required for a BLP.

Overall though, the subject is clearly very notable and there are an abundance of news and book sources about the subject. It just needs steering and cajoling towards being an excellent article. Sionk (talk) 10:21, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Photos for an article

Jim, Thanks for the note, I do not have the understanding to upload the two photos I have, can you help?ChrisMarkDrew (talk) 02:47, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello ChrisMarkDrew. Did you take these photos? If not, who did, and when? Cullen Let's discuss it 03:07, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Jim, yes I did take the photos, from your suggestion above I have managed to go to Commons and have the two photos loaded into Commons. I am not quite sure how I can add the photos to the page that shows the trees I am wishing to enhance Melicope micrococca one of the files I have load to Commons is called Melicope_micrococca_in_flower.jpg ChrisMarkDrew (talk) 03:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

The file page on Commons for each of your photos will have a menu bar that will produce the wikicode for adding the photo to an article. Simply copy that code and paste it into the wikicode for the appropriate Misplaced Pages article. Usually, it is best to add it as the first line of code for the appropriate section of the article. The process is very similar to commenting here on my talk page. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:26, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Jim, thanks so much for your help, I was able to add the photo and you gave me the confidence to go ahead. regards ChrisChrisMarkDrew (talk) 04:15, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello ChrisMarkDrew. I reduced the size of the image. Your photo has some unneeded grey space on the left and above. I suggest you crop that away and upload a cleaner version. Cullen Let's discuss it 04:22, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Jim, will do , good suggestions ChrisMarkDrew (talk) 04:26, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for improving the encyclopedia, ChrisMarkDrew. Be bold, and please keep editing. Feel free to ask questions at any time. Cullen Let's discuss it 05:18, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

You are so amazing, an inspiration to all new users!

Dathus

Thank you, Dathus. I enjoy helping out. Cullen Let's discuss it 17:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Cory Gardner

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Cory Gardner. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Misplaced Pages:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Non-notability of primary schools

Hello Jim,

On 2 July you wrote “our well-established presumption is that primary and middle schools are not notable, but that degree awarding secondary schools and colleges and universities are notable. We redirect search terms about non notable schools to articles about their school districts or locales.” See your diff.

I agree with your position but I have been unable to find anything written in the Notability guidelines to reinforce this. Can you identify something relevant in one of the guidelines?

There appears to be a growing number of articles about primary schools. Often, the only reference is the school’s own website. The content is often very bland – “The school has won many awards in the music department” etc.

See:

Regards, Dolphin (t) 06:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Dolphin51. There is no notability guideline specifically covering schools. However, there is what I would call an effective working consensus, which is described at WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. I do believe that a few elementary or primary schools are notable, those of demonstrated historical or architectural significance. But the vast majority get run-of-the-mill coverage and passing mentions in local news outlets that does not establish true notability. I believe that redirecting to the "education" section of the article about the locale, or the relevant school district, is the best choice in most cases. Lacking a clear guideline, each decision has to be made individually, but I believe that consensus should be heavily influenced by the precedent of similar previous decisions. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:53, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your super-fast response. The information in WP:Outcomes is very useful for my purposes. Dolphin (t) 06:58, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Friendly hint

You like to hand them out, maybe you can take one: consider running for admin one of these days. We could use you with a magic wand in your hand. Drmies (talk) 15:17, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint, Drmies. A true optimist is a fellow who thinks that a dirty mop is a magic wand. I speak as a guy who worked as a janitor while taking a break between high school and college. I guess we are both optimists, huh? Cullen Let's discuss it 20:12, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I'd support you! Thanks, Mat ty.007 20:26, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Did I ever tell you about the two weeks I cleaned in a hospital? I was the only one of the crew who spoke Dutch, and at the end of a night I was asked to explain in various languages that everyone was fired, including me. Drmies (talk) 02:10, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)I'd support you as well! =] Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 13:20, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

I, too, started out as a hospital janitor, but that lasted nearly two years. Then, I got several promotions and was the telecommunications manager when I left after ten years. As a janitor, filling in for guys on vacation or calling in sick, I saw some truly hair-raising things. Needle safety was negligible, pre AIDS, for example. And working the morgue and the incinerator was always "interesting". Cullen Let's discuss it 02:50, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Schools

Hi Cullen. Thanks for posting on my talk page, your opinion is of course most welcome. As it did not address a post by any specific contributor, I've placed it in chrono order, and replied. Cheers, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:32, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Please feel entirely free to rearrange my comments on your talk page as you see fit, Kudpung. I took a while to formulate my comment, ran into an edit conflict, and then copied and reposted. The software seemed to treat it differently than usual. Wikimedia programmers hard at work, perhaps. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks again fore replying there. You and I seem partially of split opinion but the essential thing is that we get, well, opinions. I try hard on WP to get policies and practices strqih\ghtent out and usually I am successful. In rare occasions when I am not, I am quite happy to have been 'out voted' by the community. -But it hasn't got to the stage where it is being offered for discussion by the broader community yet and I'm hoping that it can be resolved locally and won't need to be. -Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Actually, I think we agree, Kudpung, on the core issue. I seek the same outcome as you, keeping the secondary schools and redirecting perhaps 99%.of the primary schools. It is just that I am less bothered by the school AfDs than you seem to be. But that's OK, isn't it? Cullen Let's discuss it

It's fine,and by voting 'rediret' on them you are at least helping to reinforce the consensus we already have. --1.2.255.121 (talk) 05:12, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

My Allison Argo writeup that you looked at through my request for help on Drmies' talk page

Jim, Thank you for your compliment on Drmies' talk page concerning my writeup here . Although I have a very low edit count and few articles to my credit, I try to bring those that I work on to a C or B status before putting them up to go live. I looked at WP:REFNAME, and I'm not quite sure how to edit using the format. I'm not sure how a URL fits into the picture on the original reference from which others are derived. Could I possibly ask you to format one reference on my article so that I could give it a shot with the others before I submit the article for upload into live space? Thank you in advance for any help that you may be able to provide. Doc2234 (talk) 01:00, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Doc2234. I did two of them for you, the Bates reference and the 2013 Speakers reference. Now, they are all combined, and the number of individual references has been reduced from 46 to 33, with no loss of content. You just define the named reference once, and then you invoke the ref name afterwards, with an ending slash such as <ref name=Bates/>. I hope that helps. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:10, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the help! I will work on the rest over the next few days. Thank you, again. Doc2234 (talk) 23:10, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

McKinsey & Company

Hi Cullen. I was wondering if you had time to review the proposed publishing section I put together here. I think it could probably be cut back a bit, because many of the books mentioned in it have their own separate articles, but I wanted to make sure to get all the major criticisms in there to avoid the appearance of spinning things. This also starts hammering away at getting the "Issues" section distributed into the article. It's been 2-3 weeks since anyone participated in the discussion, so I just thought I would see if you still had an interest. No problem if you are busy of course. CorporateM (Talk) 20:53, 26 July 2014 (UTC)