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Talk to me, Andy Mabbett
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WikiVIP
Hey Andy. I'm quite excited about this WikiVIP thing you've started and interested in participating. However, it seems sort of like it is just sort of floating out there in the Misplaced Pages namespace. I'm wondering if it would be useful to either convert it to a proper WikiProject or to merge the project into WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages as a task force, similar to the Pronunciation task force. There's a lot of overlap there in terms of audio recording advice and setups, etc. Consider it, let me know what you think. 0x0077BE 22:26, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- While there may be parallels, this is distinct from those projects, and should not be merged. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
- Well right now it doesn't seem to be much of anything. It's not a WikiProject as far as I can tell, and the bulk of the instructions are on your external blog. There's not a huge amount of interest in producing audio content, as far as I can tell, and most of it seems centered around Spoken Misplaced Pages. Either way, are you also suggesting that WikiVIP remain a distinct entity, sui generis, and not become a proper WikiProject? Is it to remain your sole domain? 0x0077BE 01:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
- FYI, these aren't rhetorical questions, I'm actually looking for an answer. If you're ready to abandon this project, I'll propose merging it as a subset of WikiProject: Spoken Misplaced Pages, or the creation of a new WikiProject covering this. Otherwise I'm happy for your input as to how to proceed. 0x0077BE 00:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
- You've making many assumptions which are false; not least that the project is abandoned or about to be: it is not. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:10, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
- I am making no assumptions, I asked specific questions, which you continue to evade. I asked if you were planning on abandoning the project, obviously you are not, but what is the way forward? What is the nature of this project? Are you planning on making it a proper WikiProject? Are you planning on maintaining ongoing direct control of it? These are all simple questions and determine what my course of action will be, since I was planning on doing something similar anyway. 0x0077BE 00:44, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
- You've making many assumptions which are false; not least that the project is abandoned or about to be: it is not. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:10, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
- FYI, these aren't rhetorical questions, I'm actually looking for an answer. If you're ready to abandon this project, I'll propose merging it as a subset of WikiProject: Spoken Misplaced Pages, or the creation of a new WikiProject covering this. Otherwise I'm happy for your input as to how to proceed. 0x0077BE 00:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
- Well right now it doesn't seem to be much of anything. It's not a WikiProject as far as I can tell, and the bulk of the instructions are on your external blog. There's not a huge amount of interest in producing audio content, as far as I can tell, and most of it seems centered around Spoken Misplaced Pages. Either way, are you also suggesting that WikiVIP remain a distinct entity, sui generis, and not become a proper WikiProject? Is it to remain your sole domain? 0x0077BE 01:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea why you feel the need to be vague about my specific questions about this project. It's causing much frustration. I only moved on forking WikiVIP (barely a fork - I would have done it this way anyway if I had not come across WikiVIP, and almost no work has been done on this so far anyway) because you are being weirdly evasive about my questions. I'm moving to this venue because my proposal over at WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages is independent of WikiVIP or your participation. I've made numerous substantive complaints about the organization of WikiVIP and I have been met with immense resistance. I'm not trying to muscle in on your territory, but I'm also not interested in going off half-cocked and making things harder for everyone involved. So one last time:
- Do you want WikiVIP to be a proper WikiProject? If not, why?
- What is your objection to WikiVIP being merged into a taskforce of WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages?
- What do you see as your role in WikiVIP? WP:WikiVIP is written by you, in the first person. You appear to have hidden knowledge about the nature of the project. The instructions for participation are hosted off-wiki, on your blog. Are these temporary measures, or do you consider yourself the primary WikiVIP coordinator?
These are not rhetorical questions and I am perfectly amenable to being convinced to go another way, but at this point I am not at all convinced that there's much usable organizing infrastructure and we seem to disagree (I say seem, because you are being very cagey about your precise position on these matters). 0x0077BE 16:37, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not "being vague", I'm declining to answer loaded questions, which are based on false assumptions; or questions which I have already answered. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- Can you explain what the false assumptions are? I've tried to minimally load these, but it's incredibly frustrating to get zero response from you. 0x0077BE 17:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- While you have yet to respond to where I have already explained some of them (indeed, you claim above to be "making no assumptions"; and have attempted to censor another by including it in a collapsed section), I see little point expending further energy doing so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:09, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- I was very explicit about why I hatted the discussion, it was not an attempt to censor but an attempt to prevent the discussion from being derailed by pointless squabbling. What is it exactly that you have said that bears response that I have not addressed in my voluminuous comments to you? In fact, the reason I hatted the discussion was because I composed several lengthy responses to you alone that were not relevant to the topic at hand, but I felt that you should be addressed. Evidently you do not care to engage on this matter, which is fine by me. I have no problem with multiple projects with similar or entirely overlapping scope. 0x0077BE 18:19, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- So your false allegations are fine, but rebuttal of them is "pointless squabbling"? Nice try. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- What allegations? You are being frustratingly vague. I can't read your mind. I have no idea what false assumptions I'm presumed to be harboring under. I came here and asked you how to best proceed. You refuse to tell me what exactly is wrong with my questions. The non-collapsed portion of my remarks contains no false accusations - I made two statements about you: that you are not amenable to a merge (you said so yourself in your initial quip here), and that you do not seem willing to engage (you've explicitly stated now several times that you are refusing to answer my questions and that there's no point in expending further energy on it). You don't need to be involved in the creation of that task force. I would love it if you were, or if you would assume good faith on my part, because I honestly have no idea what you are talking about when you go on about false assumptions. I legitimately don't understand why the question of whether WikiVIP is a WikiProject or not touches such a nerve with you. 0x0077BE 18:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- So your false allegations are fine, but rebuttal of them is "pointless squabbling"? Nice try. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- I was very explicit about why I hatted the discussion, it was not an attempt to censor but an attempt to prevent the discussion from being derailed by pointless squabbling. What is it exactly that you have said that bears response that I have not addressed in my voluminuous comments to you? In fact, the reason I hatted the discussion was because I composed several lengthy responses to you alone that were not relevant to the topic at hand, but I felt that you should be addressed. Evidently you do not care to engage on this matter, which is fine by me. I have no problem with multiple projects with similar or entirely overlapping scope. 0x0077BE 18:19, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- While you have yet to respond to where I have already explained some of them (indeed, you claim above to be "making no assumptions"; and have attempted to censor another by including it in a collapsed section), I see little point expending further energy doing so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:09, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- Can you explain what the false assumptions are? I've tried to minimally load these, but it's incredibly frustrating to get zero response from you. 0x0077BE 17:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Tech News: 2014-48
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19:31, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
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Radio 3 composer pages
Have you by any chance kept a list of the composers you've added the External Link to? I've just added it to Francis Poulenc, and will be glad to add it to other composers' pages in which I have an interest, which will be an easier task if I know in advance where it has and hasn't already been added. (If you have a moment, you might look in chez Poulenc and check that I've followed the preferred link style.) Tim riley talk 19:58, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
- @Tim riley: Yes; on the template talk page. But note that the Poulenc page is part of a different series, with the URL in a different format. I'll see if we can get the BBC to create similar "composer series" URLs. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:34, 30 November 2014
(UTC)
- Good (and thank you). I'll await instructions. Please pass on to anyone at the BBC who would care to know how superb I think these pages are. Tim riley talk 21:09, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks
Thanks so much for your work on the JFK memorial! I was planning to spend all evening on it, and yet there it was... Gareth E Kegg (talk) 11:27, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- My pleasure. I've cycled past there several times, and never noticed it, Next time... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:31, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata weekly summary #135
- Events/Blogs/Press
- Past: Internetdagaarna in Stockholm
- Past: Hacks/Hackers in Berlin
- Picture this!
- Wikidata identifiers and the ODNB - where next?
- Wikidata and identifiers - part 2, the matching process
- IRC office hour on Wednesday
- Other Noteworthy Stuff
- Commons will get access to the data on Wikidata on Tuesday
- Statements on properties and language fallbacks are coming
- VisualEditor is now available as a beta feature to make editing of project and help pages easier
- Did you know?
- Development
- Moved the sitelink section into a sidebar (if the page is too narrow it will float below the statement section like it is now)
- Wrapping up work on injecting LabelLookups into EntityView (should boost performance)
- Implemented new notification bar to replace the notification bubble we had before
- Fixed more issues with geocoordinates
- Wrapping up work on client side usage tracking (important for arbitrary access)
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- Transformations for pass XML dumps got merged, should fix phabricator:T74348
- Enabled Statements on Properties on http://test.wikidata.org for testing
- JSON dumps will no longer contain redirects from the week after next week on
- Improved performance of client’s other projects sidebar
- Worked on bug triage (looking at the testme bugs)
- Replaced the custom Wikidata Jenkins continuous integration slaves with regular ones
- Fixed error in DataModel that was noticed by DataModelSerializer tests
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Stop deleting my comments
1.) Don't revert my comments on Spoken Misplaced Pages because it's easier for you to revert than to remove the collapsed sections. 2.) Montanabw responded in the collapsed section, which you would know if you were paying attention. I collapsed that section after my second response. It's not unreasonable to assume that he's fine with his comments being hidden. 0x0077BE 18:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- I would appreciate if you would revert you latest edit, as I'm not interested in any accusations of edit warring on a talk page of all places. 0x0077BE 18:48, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- No, because if I did so, I would be hiding another editor's comments. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:53, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- Did you notice you deleted my comments as well? So it's OK to delete comments but not hide them? 0x0077BE 18:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- When you post them at the same time as hiding others' comments, yes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- Usually you remove the relevant section, not a full revert in situations like that. You should probably know this by now. Particularly when it was a good faith restoration of the collapse - I left your substantive comment intact, and other than your one small response (which I assumed you wouldn't mind being collapsed if I was going to collapse all my own responses), all the other comments were added after the section was collapsed. I fail to see how Montanabw's own choice to put his responses in the collapsed section is me "hiding" his edits. 0x0077BE 19:16, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- When you post them at the same time as hiding others' comments, yes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- Did you notice you deleted my comments as well? So it's OK to delete comments but not hide them? 0x0077BE 18:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- No, because if I did so, I would be hiding another editor's comments. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:53, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- Don't hide other people's comments; doubly so in a discussion in which they challenge your behaviour. If you do so, you can expect me, and others, to revert you. You did so here; and here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:53, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- You evidently never read what I write, so I'll try to be as clear as possible: HE PLACED THEM IN THE COLLAPSED SECTION, NOT ME. 0x0077BE 18:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
FWIW, I did insert my comments inside the collapsed section, but 0x0077BE, you should NEVER revert other people's talk page comments! (There are exceptions to the rule, but to best be done by third parties, that's what administrators are for). Montanabw 19:25, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- WTF? Pigsonthewing is the one who reverted my comments! I only reverted to restore the page before he deleted one of my comments in an effort to move your comments out of the collapsed section. I never removed any of his content. 0x0077BE 19:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- By the way, Montanabw, if you're fine with me putting your comments back in the collapsed section, I'd love to do that. The whole discussion is very distracting from the main point, which has nothing to do with my apparent feud with Andy. 0x0077BE 19:31, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- WTF? Pigsonthewing is the one who reverted my comments! I only reverted to restore the page before he deleted one of my comments in an effort to move your comments out of the collapsed section. I never removed any of his content. 0x0077BE 19:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I wasn't paying a lot of attention to where I put them. They can stay outside the hatted section or not, I DGAF on that topic. Just do not change what I or anyone else said. Montanabw 20:10, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
- OK, I'm going to drop them in there, though I'm not crazy about the implication that I would ever change or remove anyone's comments - something I've never done before. 0x0077BE 20:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
You will remember the article on author Harry Mark Petrakis was in need of additional . You put this banner at the top of the article: "This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. (August 2014)." Now, however, with the Oct. 2014 publication of his autobiography, "Song of My Life," I have added numerous additional citations. So can you remove the banner at the top now? Thank you. Lambrini Papangelis (talk) 00:10, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Please read notice from Lambrini, just above
When I wrote you just a moment ago, I neglected to put a Subject/Headline, sorry. Please read above. Thank you. Lambrini Papangelis (talk) 00:13, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Alex Chinneck has been nominated for Did You Know
 | Hello, Pigsonthewing. Alex Chinneck, an article you either created or significantly contributed to, has been nominated for Did you know consideration to appear on Misplaced Pages's Main Page. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 05:56, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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2014-12-03 RSC
Hi
Thanks for the training! Lovelljspanelli (talk) 15:43, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello
Thanks for the training - hopefully I'll remember everything! VM.15.3 (talk) 15:43, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello!
This course was brilliant. Where's my beer? AnnKBarcelona (talk) 15:43, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello
Thank for all your help! Marrisobel (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi!
Thanks Andy, you're a star! Vdavison (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello
Thanks for your help and advice! GKitley (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello!
Thank you for the training today!DebbieHoughton (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
TFA-related discussions
Hi Andy, just to let you know about what I've said at Misplaced Pages talk:Today's featured article#Wrapping this up, in case there was anything you wanted to say there. Best wishes, Bencherlite 12:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
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Disinfoboxes
Hey Andy. I was a bit annoyed by some of the statements at WP:Disinfoboxes and enjoyed your refutation. Anyway, just stopping by to let you know why I removed one of the the images. We can't display fair use images outside the mainspace. I would elaborate but I suspect you are well aware of that issue and didn't realize the image was FU. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk)
- Fuhghettaboutit, thank you. The brilliant piece of refutation was written by RexxS, quoted here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Hey Gerda. thanks for noticing this. I think I didn't get enough sleep last night. Sorry Andy: obviously you did not write the refutation or add the FU image. I looked at the history and somehow thought you were the creator. I will now post to the actual creator's page.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Well, for some reason Andy and get connected to infoboxes even if don't we even mention them ;) - I wrote this, and promptly had a comment on my talk discussing infobox yes or no. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:51, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- This year's question to the arb candidates (as last year) was not really about infoboxes, but how diligently (or as you said: intelligently) a history in diffs is analysed, and what's good for the project, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Hey Gerda. thanks for noticing this. I think I didn't get enough sleep last night. Sorry Andy: obviously you did not write the refutation or add the FU image. I looked at the history and somehow thought you were the creator. I will now post to the actual creator's page.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
The Signpost: 03 December 2014
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Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!
The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
About funding wikipedia (ideas)
Thought, i had a few ideas about funding wikipedia which goes as this... wikipedia will always be ad-free, yet, wikipedia could be advertised for donation on other websites, could accept virtual currency such as facebook credits, people donating credits would fund wikipedia, but also, wikipedia could create products such as wikipedia DVDs containing archives, people who would like to own a fixed copy of wikipedia and even, update it many times a year, could buy a set of DVD that would contain Kiwix's integrated browser as a standalone... Every new versions would contain both updates, talks and change-history for a certain period... Otherwise, wikipedia shirts, even shirts featuring wikipedia articles, maybe, printing a daily shirt with the featured article of the day, lol :P well that wouldn't do for "just-in-time" delivery x) bad idea x) Maybe, yet, shirts with printed wikipedia articles could become really fashioned, i imagine people reading people's shirt for like, 15 minutes to say "wow, that was a nice read"... About facebook credits, there could be ways to make a facebook game like a trivia or something involving studying history and stuff, that could make people buy ehmm... energy packs, special items, custom props for their characters... you know the way FB games goes ^^ This way, people could donate credits but also get in-game items, to help them in their trivias, or treasure-hunt ^^ Maybe, daily trivia concerning the featured articles could make people want to perform in a leaderboard, to gain the title of encyclopedian of the day :P With monthly ranks and a third section for best scores of all time... :P I guess it could be developed as an android app too, but i don't know if android uses any credit systems... Unless using facebook directly... A last way wikipedia could raise funds could be by selling monthly magazines in many languages, selling them at a price that includes taxes, printing fees, and a certain donation going right to fundraising ^^ The trivia game could help raise funds to develop wikipedia furthermore and develop an app for the real encyclopedia for mobile devices. A windows software resembling Kiwix could be done for users to have the encyclopedia right on their desktop but to download articles only on demand (or entierely and keep updated, depending on the user's choice and well, hard drive capacity... (i created an account just for this topic in case an admin would want to contact me for any reasons pertaining to ideas for fundraising ^^ ) Mattthhieu (talk) 00:13, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Beatrix Campbell
Thanks Andy for your post. I am drawing B Campbell's attention to your message and asking her to consider adding a voice message, a photo, and a ORCID ID (whatever that is) if she has one — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sturdytree (talk • contribs) 10:02, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Edit made to University infobox
Can you please self-revert this edit and discuss it in Talk? You characterized it as a "copy edit" but it's actually a significant change that (a) changes the meaning of the parameter and (b) makes the parameter appear nearly identical to the "affiliations" parameter. I'd revert your edit myself but the template is protected. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 13:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Template talk:Infobox university#Affiliation label. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:34, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you for opening the discussion but you need to revert your edit, too. ElKevbo (talk) 13:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ElKevbo (talk) 15:58, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Wikidata weekly summary #136
- Events/Blogs/Press
- IRC office hour (log)
- Wikidata for research - a grant proposal anyone can edit
- Other Noteworthy Stuff
- Wikimedia Commons now has access to the data on Wikidata
- Statements on properties are now live
- Sneak peek at a prototype for checking Wikidata's data against 3rd party databases
- The Game has a new mode: alma mater
- Work is ongoing for a bot job to tag thousands of objects in OpenStreetMap with the equivalent Wikidata ID
- Resolver finds Wikidata items for a given identifier (VIAF, GND, IMDB, ...)
- English-Misplaced Pages now has a template, RedQ, which puts a Wikidata link next to red links for subjects which have no Misplaced Pages article in any language, This should prevent duplicate Wikidata items from being created when an article is written, and assist Misplaced Pages editors to find relevant facts and sources. Please copy it to other-language Wikipedias.
- Did you know?
- Newest properties: working title, undercarriage
- Newest WikiProjects: WikiProject Wikidata for research aims to integrate Wikidata more closely with research, and to this end, a grant proposal is being drafted.
- Development
- Started work on units
- More work on evaluating options for querying
- Implemented Property DataType (for relationships between properties)
- Improvements to get by with fewer memcache request on clients
- Work on file-based cache of the SiteStore
- Work on improved label lookup performance
- Wrapping up work on usage tracking
- Monthly Tasks
- Hack on one of these.
- Help fix these items which have been flagged using Wikidata - The Game.
- Help develop the next summary here!
- Contribute to a Showcase item
Missing subheader
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- In view of this I seriously considered substantially increasing the length of the block. I already regarded the block as a minimal one, in the light of your history of disruption over a long period. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Tech News: 2014-50
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
Recent software changes
- All users are now getting pages from servers that run the HHVM tool. HHVM should make pages load faster.
- You can join a video chat about Phabricator on December 11 at 18:00 (UTC). Phabricator is the new tool to report issues.
Problems
Software changes this week
- The new version of MediaWiki (1.25wmf11) has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since December 3. It will be on non-Misplaced Pages wikis from December 9. It will be on all Wikipedias from December 10 (calendar).
- You can now exit VisualEditor by pressing the "Esc" key.
- It is now easier to use VisualEditor with IMEs. Typing in Malayalam now works better.
- The new version of OOjs UI fixed many issues with the size and layout of buttons in dialogs.
- (Lua) You can no longer use
mw.text.unstripto get the HTML from special page transclusion. You can see a list of scripts to fix.
Future changes
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17:11, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Template:Infobox academic division
Why did you bother starting a Tfd if you were planning to unilaterally change all use of Template:Infobox academic division to Template:Infobox university without waiting for the outcome of the discussion?--obi2canibe 21:31, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Because two people blocked its deletion on the grounds that a some parameters needed to be merged onto another template. On further examination, only one is used; on six articles. All the parameters that are used are in the more generic, better, template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:36, 8 December 2014 (UTC)