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Tarc

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Tarc

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Bosstopher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:38, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Tarc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Tarc has been engaged in gross incivility against editors he has been edit warring with. While reverting an edit by User:Starke hathaway, Tarc wrote in the edit summary "Single-purpose-accounts are not welcome in this topic area." This is an innaccurate statement, as most of Starke's edits have been to non-GamerGate related topics. Yet even ignoring this, Tarc's comment is an unacceptable attempt to pressure an editor he disagrees with out of the editing process.

Tarc has also accused User:Shii of being in hysterics. Shii's so called "hysterical" actions were merely to revert Tarc's edit to the Draft claiming it to be against consensus, and noting that Tarc had not participating in discussion. How this could be considered hysterical I am not sure.

Per WP:NPA Tarc should not be accusing other edtors of being hysterical. Tarc should definitely also not be trying to pressure editors he disagrees with, out of contributing. Bosstopher (talk) 22:38, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

@Tarc: Starke's edits both inside and out of GamerGate have almost all been reverts. Classifying his non-GamerGate edits as "minor" when they are pretty much the same as his non-GamerGate edits is unhelpful. Starke also claims to have edited substantially as an IP editor in the past on his talk page. While the majority of his focus is on Gamergate, he is not an SPA. Also bringing up BLP violations as a reason why SPA's should be kicked out is irrelevant in this case, as the edit war in question did not involve BLP issues. Also also, none of this means you're allowed to tell editors they're not welcome. Bosstopher (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

@Ryulong, given that this was in response to the comments I was making about Starke, I have a feeling I'm the person who's not allowed in the Actual Editors club.

@Tarc Starke's non-GG edits are in large part anti-Vandalism, which is usually not considered to fall into the "junk" category. Also it is unfair to compare him to Xander who is a completley different kettle of fish. Also Also regardless of all this, you cannot just tell editors you disagree with they're not welcome to edit a page. It's comes across very OWNy, as well as being uncivil.

@TDA Proposed decision date has been pushed back again, no point waiting an eternity, especially considering this is regarding thigns that occured after the Evidence and Workshop submission deadlines.Bosstopher (talk) 21:33, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

@Tarc I'm slightly confused here by the point you're trying to make with the Thalgor quote? Are you saying that reading it made you angry, and thats why you made rude comments to Shii and told Starke to get out? Or are you saying that I hold the same mindset as you think Thalgor does on this issue? If the latter, I must admit that I while I am waiting for Arbcom to ban a certain editor who cant be banned through any other means due to Wiki policy sucking, that editor most certainly isn't you. I just reported you because I felt telling people you're in dispute with that they're not welcome to edit crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes to civility. Bosstopher (talk) 23:18, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Tarc

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Tarc

Single purpose accounts are a plague upon this topic area, this has been well-noted and well-documented in the Arbcom case. Editors who are only here to advance a narrow point of view must not be allowed to disrupt a topic area rife with BLP violations.

• Look at Special:Contributions/Xander756, a SPA returns to heap more abuse, and had to be re-blocked and banned from the topic area.

• Look at Special:Contributions/Starke_hathaway, a SPA that just shows up to revert an edit. Account created Dec 3rd, has made minor edits outside of GG< the rest is stuff like this.

• Look at Special:Contributions/ToonLucas22, created Dec 8th, minor edits, including some vandalism to a random article. The a moment ago restores a bogus edit-war template that Avono had placed an hour earlier.

These are the kind of games, pov-pushing, and agenda-driven editing we face day in and day out around here. Tarc (talk) 22:47, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Enough with the pings, this page is watch-listed. As for reverts, there were only two; the initial edit does not count. As for Starke whatever, all of the account's edits in other topics are junk, and likely made simply to become auto-confirmed in order to edit semi-protected pages. Actual Misplaced Pages editors are well familiar with this tactic. Tarc (talk) 23:03, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

What is this silly "I need days and days to dig for dirt!" catcalling? For allegations of incivility? In an encyclopedia project where the Arbitration Committee could not sanction an editor for referring to other editors as "cunts", civility enforcement is dead and toothless. I would certainly like it to be enforced, but when the rules-makers come out sand say boldly that some editors being more equal than others, civility becomes academic.

But really, anyone can peruse Special:Contributions/Tarc and see that my wiki-presence in GG has been rather sparse since the close of the Arb case. You don't need days, certainly not til the 12th, I'll help you our right now;

1. Dec 30th Talk:Gamergate controversy/Archive 17#Failure to apply WP:IS, a zombie account pops up citing an obscure essay arguing long-debunked GG talking points. I make 2 comments to this effect, noting the cotinued pattern of 8chan/reddit-fueled disruption. Starship.paint and Loganmac egg on the zombie editor.
2. Jan 2nd Per HJ Mitchell's note when closing the previousa Ksolway Enforcement, that this SPA has returned, along with a reversion of same.
3. Jan 6th Talk:Gamergate controversy#Why are we citing First Things so much?, the current kerfuffle. Shii's edit was awful; I reverted twice and told him to calm down when he started getting all hand-wringing about me not yet taking part in the discussion. The subsequent reverts, on the draft article and at my own talk page, by throwaway SPAs only make the whole affair worse.
4. Jan 9th Talk:Anita Sarkeesian#BoobFreq, single post.

Number 3 is why we're here, and what the real locus is is this post by Thargor Orlando (and a fe of the preceding ones), which let's not beat around the bush; it is a troll post. Not a Tolkien troll, not a pink-hair 70's troll, not even an urbandictionary troll, but an honest-to-goodness Jargon File troll. Was I an idiot to take the bait? Yes, I guess I was, so a well-played tip-of-the-cap to T.O., it was a page form the 8chan and KotakuInAction playbook.

At the end of the day, this is why we keep coming back again and again to Arbitration and Enforcement pages, it is just like the Scientology wars of a few years back. The powers that be will have to decide who is here to further the aims of the encyclopedia in the general sense, and who is here to advance an outside agenda in a narrowly-focused area of interest. I sure as hell know where I stand. Tarc (talk) 02:47, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Avono

I also want to add that this user has been edit warning on the Draft Article while consensus was still developing in the talk page. . I can't remember there being a consensus against SPA's editing in the Draft Article therefore this is also WP:BITE. Avono (talk) 22:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

@Tarc: I count three reverts which justify the template. Avono (talk) 22:55, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

It is self-evident that, having utterly failed to convince any actual reliable source of the veracity of their allegations against living people — to the contrary, their allegations being roundly dismissed and reported to be factually false by those reliable sources — a wide array of Gamergate supporters have taken to attempting to present that POV in the encyclopedia, reliable sources be damned. By insinuation, lie by omission, anonymous gossip or outright fabrication, they've repeatedly attempted to present highly negative claims about Zoe Quinn, Nathan Grayson and others as something other than entirely discredited, rejected or unworthy of even mentioning in the encyclopedia. Observing and noting the onslaught of such single-purpose accounts cannot possibly be considered actionable misbehavior. It is merely stating a fact. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 22:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

So in response to the direction from HJ Mitchell that evidence of *recent* issues should be presented, Starship paint has instead unloaded a laundry list of diffs which primarily date from as far back as September and of which I cannot find a single one more recent than November. I submit that Starship paint's submission is non-responsive. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 10:21, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

OK, but when you completely ignore specific instructions from an admin considering a request, you should probably not be surprised when the request is closed without the action you seek, and you should probably not then run around claiming that admins are "biased" or something. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 12:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by starship.paint

• @HJ Mitchell: - I am willing to search for and present evidence, if any, before 12 January UTC. I welcome others to search as well, but they might need more time. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 04:19, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell:, I'm done... you'll have to read the edit summaries as well...

• different sockpuppet accusations without proof; users not blocked 18 Sept 15 Oct

• false SPA accusations 1, 17 Sept accuses MyMoloboaccount

• false SPA accusations 2, 21 Sept accuses many; according to this list. therefore falsely accusing Ilovetopaint, Tutelary and Hahnchen

• false SPA accusations 3, 6 Oct accuses Skrelk

• false SPA accusations 4, 10 Oct (borderline case though) Muscat Hoe

• false SPA accusations 5, 26 Oct seems to be accusing Halfhat and Pengo

• SPA was civil, but Tarc wasn't, 29 Sept

• incivility / name-calling / baiting (please also check edit summaries) 2 Sept

2 Sept 3 Sept 5 Sept 5 Sept 5 Sept 5 Sept 5 Sept 7 Sept 9 Sept 9 Sept 12 Sept 15 Sept 19 Sept 19 Sept 21 Sept 21 Sept 3 Oct 9 Oct 9 Oct 10 Oct 11 Nov 13 Nov

• reverting reminders to be civil / not edit war 5 Sept

6 Sept 9 Sept 10 Sept 21 Sept 23 Sept 10 Oct 18 Oct 20 Oct 1 Nov

• civility isn't a shield, 10 Sept

• "lucky" that another editor is a "community pariah ... and is pretty much ignored", 21 Sept

• general non-collaborativeness / snarkiness to generally civil editors 3 Sept

3 Sept 18 Sept 18 Sept 18 Sept 26 Sept 27 Sept 28 Sept 29 Sept 4 Oct 5 Oct 14 Oct 16 Oct, current article indeed shows culture war at this point 16 Oct 22 Oct 24 Oct 24 Oct 2 Nov 2 Nov 2 Nov 10 Nov 21 Nov 19 Dec

• rebukes editor bringing up many sources, 27 Sept which causes conflict with other editors

• seems to approve of the doxxing of editors he does not like, 12 Sept

• edit warring 1, 15 Sept 1st 2nd 3rd 4th in 24 hours, acknowledgement that the 4th edit was a revert 5th in 27 hours 6th in 48 hours 7th in 48 hours

• edit warring 2, 19 Sept 1st 2nd 3rd in 1 hour 4th in 11 hours

• edit warring 3, 21 Sept 1st 2nd3rd 4th in 7 hours

• edit warring 4, 23 Sept 1st 2nd 3rd4th in 14 hours, last revert was of this

• edit warring 5, 30 Sept 1st 2nd 3rd 4th in 4 hours

• edit warring 6, 10 Oct 1st 2nd 3rd in 2 hours

• edit warring 7, 1 Nov 1st 2nd, see this 3rd4th 5th in 16 hours

• refused meditation, 14 Oct

As per A Quest For Knowledge, seems like "long-term conduct issues" to me. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 09:45, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• In response to North, I don't think Tarc has been sanctioned for any of this (all are welcome to prove me wrong on this). If you think no action is appropriate ... given the past behaviour, recent or not, regarding GamerGate articles and the current transgression ... then by all means, carrying on thinking that. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 11:51, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
• I started from the back, working my way until the opening of this case page. When I first read the stuff on "dig up some diffs", it was after AQFK had commented "long-term conduct issues", in the process, I missed out on "the last fortnight or so", and I am sorry for that, seems to have produced a lot more work for me, and now for HJ Mitchell or which-ever admin.
• I did not read Tarc's ArbCom case contributions, but since Tarc focused his efforts more on the ArbCom case in December, and less on the GamerGate page or its talk page, that is why there is very little (but not nothing) in December. January is already presented as per this enforcement request. I would hope that September, October and November are not ignored when considering "systemic issue with Tarc's conduct in the topic area". starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 12:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
• @HJ Mitchell: - dates inserted. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 04:18, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by GoldenRing

Here's a sample:

• Tarc disregarding another editor because of a long break from editing
• Tarc making unsubstantiated allegations about another editor's motives
• Tarc claims "all this user does is edit-war to get a decidedly slanted POV into the lead" where the user has a clear history of sparse but consistent contributions covering 10 years+
• Tarc dismissing an IP editor out of hand because he's not an 'actual Misplaced Pages editor' (see the edit summary)
• Tarc trying to drive another editor away (see edit summary - related to the evidence given by others above, I think)
• Tarc appears to call Avono an SPA (edit summary)
• Tarc regards abiding by a ban as a clear sign of bad faith and an SPA, regardless of, you know, actual editing history (edit summary - the signs of a bad-faith editor are clear. Also apparently confused between block and ban.)

These are not all GG-related, but are all since December 30 and I think show quite a disturbing trend. GoldenRing (talk) 04:29, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: I count five of the seven diffs as GamerGate-related; I'm not sure exactly how you conclude that "most of those aren't related to GamerGate." I'd note also that the text of the sanctions doesn't require that the misconduct be on GamerGate-related pages; merely that the editor has edited GamerGate-related pages, has been notified of the sanctions and displays repeated misconduct.

I don't have any axe to grind here and I won't be taking the time to dig further through Tarc's editing history. I just happened to be nosing through WP:GGE, was curious enough to look a couple of weeks back through Tarc's history and was fairly worried by what I saw. The most disturbing aspect, to me, is that Tarc doesn't seem to admit that there could be a problem; anyone who disagrees with him (at least about GG-related topics) is immediately written off as disruptive in some form or another and Tarc is immediately absolved of any requirement to be civil, AGF, debate in good faith, seek consensus etc. To my mind, that is clearly opposed to the goals of Misplaced Pages and should be sanctionable, even in the absence of GS. GoldenRing (talk) 06:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Looking further up, a prime example of this is given above. Thangor Orlando is labelled a troll, something which would be sanctionable in any other arena of Misplaced Pages; why not here? GoldenRing (talk) 07:34, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

If there are indeed long-term conduct issues here, it may take some time to dig up diffs. Twenty-four hours doesn't seem like a reasonable time-frame. If the goal here is determine whether there are long-term patterns of misconduct, I suggest keeping this RfE open longer, by at least several days. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 02:40, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Thargor Orlando

Since I've been invoked here, my comment was not toward Tarc, and I have not seen any major incivility issues with Tarc to run up the flagpole. I regret that my comment was taken incorrectly, and I take responsibility for the lack of clarity in retrospect; having been called a troll for having the gall to hold a contrary opinion about how the article has been edited has resulted in exactly what I said, contrary to the incorrect claims that it was a "troll post" as Tarc asserts. Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:27, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Tarc

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• I'm reluctant to evaluate broad conduct issues because of the arbitration case, and certain parties will attempt to impugn any action I take. So, based purely on what's been presented here, Tarc accused a few people of being SPAs and got into an edit war. Both are mildly disruptive, but without commenting on any individual editor, it's a statement of fact to say that the topic area has suffered from an influx of SPAs, and WP:SPA—though an essay—enjoys broad community consensus. Obviously an accusation that a particular editor is an SPA needs to be made in the proper forum and with evidence, not on an article talk page. Would anyone like to present evidence that either is a systemic issue with Tarc's conduct in the topic area? I'd be willing to consider substantive sanctions if somebody could show that this sort of thing has happened multiple times within, say, the last fortnight or so. If not, I'm tempted to close with a warning to Tarc to comment on content and not contributors. I'll leave this open for 24 hours; if somebody would like to present more diffs (and please note that it's diffs, not more accusations, that are needed) but needs more time, please make yourself known here and/or on my talk page. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:45, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
• @A Quest For Knowledge: if, within 24 hours or so (I'm not going to be fussy down to the minute), somebody expresses an intent to gather the requisite diffs but needs more time, I'd be willing to allow them a few days or maybe even a week. Obviously a balance has to be struck: Tarc shouldn't have this hanging over his head if nobody wants to make a case against him, but if somebody wants to build the case then we need to get to the bottom of it and impose sanctions if the evidence shows they're warranted. Should I take your comment as an indication that you're willing to dig up some diffs? Note that I'm perfectly happy for multiple editors to compile the diffs (it's he diffs I'm interested in, not the editor presenting them). I'll also waive the "edit only in your own section" rule if collecting all the diffs in one section would be helpful. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:01, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
  • @Starship.paint: Very well, I'll give you until the 12th to produce something.
  • @GoldenRing: Most of those aren't related to GamerGate. They'd be useful as background if sanctionable misconduct in the topic area can be proven, or you could take them to ANI, but they're not enough on their own to invoke GamerGate-specific community sanctions. I've promised to wait until the 12th for more evidence, so you have a little bit of time if you want to dig deeper (that is, this thread is not going to suddenly disappear before then). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I haven't read all the diffs yet, but based on what I've seen so far and assuming for now that they say what they're alleged to say, I'm thinking something along the lines of a relatively brief (maybe a moth) topic ban or page ban and an indefinite prohibition on personally directed comments outside of dispute resolution or enforcement mechanisms, which would give everybody (including Tarc) a break and then address the main issue. I'd welcome outside opinions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Starship.paint: Having started to look through your diffs, I see that several of them are not at all recent. Please provide dates for all those diffs if you wish me to review any more of them. I still think there's merit to a prohibition on personally directed comments, but for anything more than that I need recent, dated diffs. Older stuff could be useful as background, but doesn't constitute a basis for sanctions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Bramble window

Hatting / Unhatting

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Hatting / Unhatting

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:39, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

N/A

Per the general Admin consensus Misplaced Pages:General_sanctions/Gamergate/Requests_for_enforcement/Archive2#Result_concerning_TheRedPenOfDoom , is the unhatting of this content likely to result in productive discussion resulting in an improvement to the encyclopedia? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:47, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Hatting / Unhatting

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Hatting / Unhatting

Statement by AndyTheGrump

Suggest closing this as the ridiculous waste of time it clearly is. Suggest RPoD uses the time saved to look up 'metaphor' in a dictionary.AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starke Hathaway

I post here only to acknowledge this request has been brought, and to point this out as yet another example of TRPoD's chronically uncivil and BITEy behavior. In addition to disagreeing that the hatted content was "bickering" or a "diversion," I thought it was obnoxious for Tony Sidaway to hat my question to TRPoD but leave his response unhatted. Starke Hathaway (talk) 01:28, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

@Tony Sidaway I don't mean to throw your "It's my fault" in your face, but this "ugly situation in the making" had no edits made to it in the approximately 36 hours before you hatted it. And if you want to wring hands over BLP issues, I suggest rather than hatting a stale discussion in which someone has had the temerity to ask whether a person actually meant the words they broadcast over the internet with a finger-wagging admonishment about "bickering," you take a look at the characterization of Eron Gjoni (a living person, last I checked) as "spewing allegations about your ex all over the web because she dumped your sorry ass" by none other than TRPoD himself. A final note: an incidental observation that an editor is behaving badly in discussion does not render the substantive discussion (viz. "do you have a source saying that Sam Biddle was saying something other than what he said?") nonexistent. I find TRPoD's attitude toward other editors reprehensible, and since the admins seem disinclined to do anything about the ensuing toxic atmosphere, I will continue to calmly and civilly point out bad behavior when I see it. Starke Hathaway (talk) 02:46, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

It's my fault. I saw what looked like an ugly situation in the making. The incident being discussed is well understood from reliable sources but has often been interpreted otherwise within the Gamergate context. There are also mild though substantive BLP implications in the edit being discussed: whether or not someone seriously advocated bullying. The parties here appeared in my judgement to be bringing the topic to the talk page rather than discussing the article. Sometimes I misjudge; anyone is free to undo such a hatting. --TS 02:28, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Hatting / Unhatting

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Hatting an offtopic or unproductive discussion is an appropriate step to take. As previously discussed on this page, the proper procedure to hat the discussion and if this hatting proves controversial, to unhat and bring the discussion here. If this procedure is a "ridiculous waste of time", then complaining about it is an even more ridiculous waste of time.

@Starke Hathaway: if you have a problem with the behavior of another editor, please open a new request for enforcement here and provide evidence as per the appropriate procedure.

I am reinstating the hatting while leaving the specific comment Starke Hathaway mentioned out of the hat.

Starke Hathaway and User:TheRedPenOfDoom are sternly reminded to be civil in their dealings with and comments towards other editors.

User:AndyTheGrump is mildly trouted.

Good day. Gamaliel (talk) 04:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

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