User talk:Flyer22 Frozen - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Flyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs) at 12:34, 29 January 2015 (→Lede image in Boy). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 12:34, 29 January 2015 by Flyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs) (→Lede image in Boy)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) CAN'T RETIRE Flyer22 Frozen tried to leave Misplaced Pages, but found that she couldn't do so…

This user may sometimes share an IP address with Halo Jerk1.

Welcome to my talk page. I have been editing Misplaced Pages since 2007. If you want to know more about me, see my user page. My work, like a lot of others, has been complimented and criticized. And in March 2012, I was even blocked. See the block cases. And it's during that first block case that I learned a lot about WP:Assume good faith and who you can count on to be there for you; that experience has made me more acrimonious towards Misplaced Pages, and this feeling was intensified with my second block case (again, refer to the block cases link). Still, I believe that it's best that I help this site, seeing as many people come here for information (Misplaced Pages is almost always ranking highest in search engines, and that type of thing is always going to bring in a lot of readers) and a lot of those people trust what they read here. So it's my job to make sure that any topic I am heavily editing is as accurate as possible.

Especially see User:Flyer22#Main type of editing style for why what you consider neutral, or what you consider needed with regard to images, likely differs from my view; don't know about you, but I'm following Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines in that regard. Any questions, compliments or criticism of my Misplaced Pages work, feel free to leave me a message here on my talk page or email me. If you leave me a message here, I will usually reply here.

Re: Just another reason to hate Misplaced Pages

It sounds like you could use a new metaphor to brighten up the new year! Try this:

Misplaced Pages
A damaged bowl, kintsugi
Golden, imperfect

Aloha. Viriditas (talk) 09:40, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Viriditas. Flyer22 (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Re: sexual objectification

Don't you ever lie about a philosophical source again, re: sexual objectification entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.25.112.234 (talk) 17:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

No lies at all, IP, as I've already clarified; seen here and here. Flyer22 (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Flyer22!

Happy New Year!

Flyer22,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:52, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.

Thank you, James. Happy New Year to you as well. Flyer22 (talk) 07:54, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Dear Flyer22 Frozen,
HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:36, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

thank you for participating in my study to see how long it takes for people to respond to changes thank you- Icewolf0421 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icewolf0421 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Impersonation is the sincerest form of flattery...

What's up with the impersonators... User:Flyer322, they had a bunch of SOCKs too! Happy New Year... :) --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 02:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Scalhotrod, I'm not sure that Flyer322 and the socks were trying to impersonate or pick on me. There are always going to be other Misplaced Pages editors with a Flyer username, and Flyer22222 (talk · contribs), who I currently mention at the top of my user page, also clearly has a similar username and it doesn't appear that the editor was aware of me before creating that account. Is it jarring for me to see another editor with a username that is very similar to mine? Yes, it is.

Anyway, Happy New Year to you too. Flyer22 (talk) 02:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

No worries, since it was so close I wanted to make sure you were aware. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 02:48, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I was; see here. I considered that I might get blocked at one point as a sock of that editor, even though I was reverting him or her. I watch the Human skin color article because it can be problematic, and those socks were focused on human skin color; so I noticed them at the Human skin color article first. Flyer22 (talk) 02:53, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year: Hardiness (plants) article

Hi, your description of this edit as good faith is incredibly charitable. I'm a bit astounded xD Hekerui (talk) 10:51, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

LOL, Hekerui. I've noted before that I've learned my lesson; if some people want to state that I'm doing the wrong thing by reverting likely WP:Vandalism as "test/vandalism," and that I should rather WP:Assume good faith in cases where there is even a sliver of a chance of the edits not being WP:Vandalism (for example, regarding the case you cited, maybe that editor read that matter somewhere and believes it), then fine. I understand what you mean, but seeing comments that I'm now being too charitable humor me.

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with "Hardiness (plants) article," so that it is clear as to what the section is about; it will also help identifying the section when it's archived. Flyer22 (talk) 12:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Extra comment: I actually didn't read all of that edit until you pointed it out to me; I reverted it because of the poor formatting and because it was unsourced. Flyer22 (talk) 12:30, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Not about winning

Please stop your personal attacks and your attempts to game the system. Misplaced Pages is not about winning. And if you should have the last word, I have no problem giving it to you. 143.176.62.228 (talk) 20:11, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages is not about winning and Misplaced Pages:The Last Word essays are not the point when it comes to my interaction with you. The point of how I've interacted with you here at the Age disparity in sexual relationships article and here at the Conversion therapy article is that I do not respect you as a Misplaced Pages editor; this is because you are a WP:Disruptive editor who fails to listen to reason. You do not have a good grasp of Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines, and you remind me of the highly problematic editor L'Origine du monde, who recently asked Beeblebrox and JamesBWatson for an unblock. At the Age disparity in sexual relationships article, you have been repeatedly reverted; those who have reverted you include Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ), Chaheel Riens, Binksternet and, most recently, MrX. At the Conversion therapy article, you have been repeatedly reverted by Binksternet and MrX. And here, you were reverted there by Harry the Dirty Dog. I warned you there at that article's talk page that if you continued WP:Edit warring, I would report you at the WP:Edit warring noticeboard or at WP:ANI. And I would have, if Euryalus had not recently blocked you for 24 hours. With the way you were WP:Edit warring, blocking you for 60 hours would have been justified. It seems that by coming to my talk page, Euryalus was brought to the attention of your problematic editing, and therefore tried to reason with you on your talk page, and eventually blocked you. Flyer22 (talk) 21:22, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Analyzing your time stamp above and the time stamp for Euryalus's initial comment on your talk page, and, because of that, thinking that Euryalus must have already become aware of your editing, I see that it's elsewhere that you first caught Euryalus's attention. Flyer22 (talk) 23:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

That's correct, though I have this page watchlisted too. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you! The Henry Knox article.

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Hi thank you for editing Wiki, but Henry Knox was nicknamed "Knox the Ox" Books contain valuable information that kids ignore. I insure you that my edit was necessary. Thank You Benl Loves History (talk) 01:47, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Benl Loves History (talk · contribs). Thank you for the WP:Barnstar, but, regarding the Henry Knox article, your content should not be in the infobox. I reverted you the first time as a WP:Good faith edit. I reverted you the second time as WP:Vandalism. From what you stated, you are still editing in WP:Good faith, but you need to be mindful of WP:Disruptive editing and WP:Edit warring.

On a side note: I added "The Henry Knox article." to the heading above, so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help locating the section once it is archived. Also, you don't have to issue WP:Barnstars or other special tags to communicate with editors on their talk pages. To start a new section on an editor's talk page, simply click on "New section" at the top of the talk page of the editor you want to communicate with. For this discussion that we are currently having, all you need to do is continue replying in this section if you want to communicate with me further. And remember to sign your username when discussing matters on Misplaced Pages talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. Flyer22 (talk) 02:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The Beatles Invite

Hi! I've seen you around on The Beatles' articles... Would you consider becoming a member of WikiProject The Beatles, a WikiProject which aims to expand and improve coverage of The Beatles on Misplaced Pages? Please feel free to join us.

Abbey Road... You're not in this picture... yet!

Todo list:

To-do list for User:Flyer22 Frozen:

A list of articles needing cleanup associated with this project is available. See also the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Articles on each Beatle tour (Category:The Beatles concert tours). See: Missing articles.
Expand : The Lost Lennon Tapes, notable radio series which has spawned many bootlegs. Apple Records See also: Adopt an article
Stubs : See: Category:The Beatles song stubs
Update : Pics/Graphics wanted: Kenwood.
Verify : Beatle wives
Other : Project: Add {{WikiProject The Beatles}} to the talk pages of all Beatles-related articles. Send a newsletter to members, canvas for new members and coordinate tasks. Enter articles assessed as stubs onto this list, also list articles needing cleanup and other work here.

If you complete one of these tasks, please remove it from the list and add your achievement to the project log.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Vitale 5 (talk • contribs)

Joe Vitale 5, I've only been involved with Beetles Misplaced Pages matters regarding the article move discussions concerning that band. Since I'm not a fan of the band, though I may like a song or two (or more than two songs) from them, I decline your offer. Flyer22 (talk) 12:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

That's fine, thank you anyway. Keep up the good work, with kind regards Joe Vitale 5 (talk) 13:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk page FAQs

I don't totally understand what's up with Anthony Bradbury's opinion on the whole FAQ thing. But if his opinion is the prevailing one among admins, this makes the FAQ template useless except for mainspace pages. Yeah I don't get it either. But anyway, I found that the Template:FAQ2 is a good replacement as it makes the text live on the page itself rather than a sub-page. This seems to have some stability benefits as well, at least for me, as sometimes the FAQ would not load or reflect recent changes until a day later. If you watch any other pages with talk FAQs you might want to transition them over before he deletes those as well.Legitimus (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

As you can see here, I just told Anthony Bradbury that Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ can validly exist just like Talk:Homophobia/FAQ validly exists. If it were truly a problem, he would have deleted Talk:Homophobia/FAQ by now. I will either simply restore Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ, or wait and see if you do, or take the matter to WP:Deletion review for wider input. Now, however, I might reconsider, given what you've stated on the matter. Still, the double standard of Talk:Homophobia/FAQ continuing to exist while Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ does not is annoying to me. And I rarely stand for that type of double standard on Misplaced Pages. Flyer22 (talk) 14:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Gentlemen, I have no strong feeling about this, and do not insist either on the deletion of the page or its retention. my point is that a talk page cannot exist on its own, without an article page to refer to; and the article page to which this talk page was related made no sense, and was itself as it stood a candidate qualifying for deletion. I do not deletion review will help you, although I shall not object at all if you try. Simple wheel-warring restoration is, I think, pointless, as another admin (not me) will delete it again. The answer surely is to re-write it so that it is encyclopedic? --Anthony Bradbury 14:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Incidentally I notice that Talk:Homophobia/FAQ is also a talk page with no article page to refer to, and hence qualifies for speedy deletion. Had my attention been drawn to it before I would have given deletion serious consideration, but had not seen it until now. I will not now delete it as that seems to me to be a possibly excessive reaction to your comment; I see that in this case the questions posed also appear on the talk page of Homophobia, which in my view is the correct place and indicates where the FAQs should be placed in the Pedophilia article. --Anthony Bradbury 14:59, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

There seems to be a misunderstanding and it relates to Template:FAQ's very function and design. You just put {{FAQ}} on the talk page and nothing else. The material that appears for this on the talk page when saved does not actually reside on that page, but rather is pulled from a sub-page; in this instance, the text appearing in that part of Talk:Homophobia actually lives on Talk:Homophobia/FAQ. If you delete Talk:Homophobia/FAQ, the FAQ part on Talk:Homophobia becomes blank. This page/sub-page setup is simple how the template was designed, so if what you say is correct, then this template simply isn't valid anymore for this purpose.Legitimus (talk) 15:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Anthony Bradbury, I'm not a male/man, actually. As for rewriting Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ so that it is encyclopedic, it's not an article. It's not supposed to be an article. It's a FAQ, and it was a WP:Subpage of Talk:Pedophilia, and showed up at Talk:Pedophilia like the FAQ that it was, just like Talk:Homophobia/FAQ shows up at Talk:Homophobia like the FAQ that it is. Anyway, as you now know, fellow WP:Administrator Floquenbeam disagrees with you; so I'll see how that plays out. And, Floquenbeam, as for what you stated in that diff-link, I think you've had my user page/talk page on your WP:Watchlist since my March 2012 block case; see here. Flyer22 (talk) 15:52, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

FYI, Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ has been restored, per reasoning on Anthony's talk page. And Flyer22, I think you're right about why this page is on my watchlist, thanks. My memory only lasts about 25 minutes these days... --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

@Flyer22: My apologies for the inexcusable gender mal-assumption. --Anthony Bradbury 16:47, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Npr article

Can you explain the difference between the npr article and the blog post on mangia.tv. thank you Bob.mangia (talk) 17:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Bob.mangia (talk · contribs). You are wondering why I reverted you here, correct? As seen on your talk page, I considered that you were adding WP:SPAM. I had meant to check up on that revert to make sure that it was WP:SPAM. If it's not WP:SPAM, I apologize for reverting you. Feel free to add the link back...properly, by adding it to the External links section of the article; see WP:Layout.

On a side note: I moved your post down and created a section for it because it was highjacking the #Talk page FAQs discussion on my talk page above. Per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout, new topics go at the bottom of a talk page (generally). Flyer22 (talk) 01:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

WP:Talk

Hi. WP:Talk makes it very clear that breaking up an thread in the interest of refactoring and staying on topic is completely appropriate. Please read Misplaced Pages:Talk_page_guidelines#Others.27_comments, paying attention to the sections on Off-topic posts and Sectioning. I will offer you the choice of accepting {{collapse top}} and {{collapse bottom}} boxing around your digression if you prefer, but I insist that you remain on-topic w/r/t the question of improper synthesis/OR. --April Arcus (talk) 05:20, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

You said in an edit summary, "When I state that I do not want my comment tampered with, that is exactly what I mean. Now do leave it alone, per WP:Talk.". You are not reading the contents of the policies you are citing, and you are deliberately steering a discussion off-topic. The rules are not only for you.

Plip!

--April Arcus (talk) 05:34, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

April Arcus, WP:Talk makes it very clear that you generally should not mess with another editor's comment, and, that when the editor objects to you messing with it, then you should leave it alone. There are only a few exceptions for you messing with an editor's comment; what you have cited above is not one of those exceptions in this case. There is nothing about my comments that is off-topic, and I've been very clear with this latest edit that you should leave my comments alone. If you continue to mess with them, then I will take the matter right to WP:ANI. I ceased discussion with you at that talk page for a reason -- a reason that is noted there (multiple reasons, actually). If I wanted to communicate with you further, I would have. I don't. Flyer22 (talk) 05:36, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Furthermore, WP:Talk is not a policy; it is a guideline. I am the one who is constantly having to inform and remind you of certain Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines, and of the WP:Advocacy essay. I've noted the following before: There is not a Misplaced Pages policy or a guideline that I need to become familiar with. I am one of the editors who knows each and every one of them. You already know that I do not tolerate WP:Advocacy; my user page is clear about that. I don't care what your cause is, as long as you do not let that cause inappropriately affect your Misplaced Pages edits. Flyer22 (talk) 05:47, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

So do you want to communicate further or not? --April Arcus (talk) 06:03, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

April Arcus, I'll eventually get back to discussion with you at that article, comparing WP:Reliable sources, including WP:MEDRS-compliant sources, and such. But like I stated, I am waiting for James Cantor to weigh in there on the matters you have addressed. I know that he's had his battles with transgender topics on Misplaced Pages, mainly involving this editor, which is why he made this pledge, but he is an expert on the transgender topics at hand and has access to more sources on them than I do. I find him rational and willing to listen to me even when my knowledge on sexology topics clashes with his knowledge on them, as recently as this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 06:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

LBP3 (LittleBigPlanet 3) article reverting?

Hey, you reverted all my changes made to the LittleBigPlanet 3 article and I was just wondering why? I don't edit wikipedia much but I actually worked on the development team for the game so wanted the page to be a bit more informative than it is now. So was there a reason and if not, is there any way to get back the changes I made? I spent quite a while typing up the plot! haha

Cheers, Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.136.96 (talk • contribs)

I don't play that game or any video games these days; I mainly played them when my brothers and I lived together (we grew up playing video games). Anyway, I came across the LittleBigPlanet 3 article via WP:STiki, and I reverted you because the formatting was partly inappropriate and you added unsourced material, some of which looked trivial to me. Per MOS:HEAD, headings are in lowercase (except for official titles, such as the title of a book or a film). And, per WP:Plot, there is a limit to the plot information we include. For example, WP:TVPlot and WP:FilmPlot are plot guidelines for television and film...respectively. For video game layout matters, see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines. As for retrieving your content, you can click on this link (which is your edit before I reverted you), and then click on the "edit" option for that link. You can go into that version of the article and retrieve your copy with the "copy and paste" feature on your computer. You can also save that version of that article (by clicking "Save page" below the editing window) and subsequently restore the article to your version, but that will erase any edits made since then, such as this edit by Soetermans.

On a side note: I added "(LittleBigPlanet 3)" to the heading above, so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help locating the section once it is archived. I would alert you to my reply on your IP talk page, but, judging by your edits to the LittleBigPlanet 3 article and now to my talk page, you clearly change IP addresses. Flyer22 (talk) 05:24, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I was actually just using the LBP2 wikipedia page as a guide for the LBP3 page, that has a hefty Plot section too. Ive just been editing from my laptop, so sorry if my IP address is changing, not sure how to control that!

Cheers, Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.136.96 (talk • contribs)

Glastonbury Festival is Avalon

Glastonbury Festival is Avalon...Atlantis is Avalon...holy graal????????? this is a shame! without corrections wikipedia is unreliable Avalon belong in the Arthurian myths and not do the tour guide of mendacious Glastonbury...why you deleted my edits?--79.12.99.161 (talk) 10:43, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

LOL. Knowing what I know about Misplaced Pages, I wouldn't fully trust it for reliability either without checking the sources supporting its text. If the sources are wrong, I'd then blame the sources. Thank you for explaining your edit after I reverted you. You should have briefly explained in the edit history, however; I mean, better than the "fantasy" edit summary you gave as an explanation. Flyer22 (talk) 10:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Uh-oh, Noyster reverted you for WP:Block evasion. Flyer22 (talk) 11:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

There's history here, Flyer, in more ways than one. I've put it on the RPP list again: Noyster (talk), 11:12, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

For your amusement

Hey Flyer, I thought you'd get a good, hearty laugh out of this discussion. I think it's funniest if you read the last post aloud in an angry voice. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for trying to get a laugh out of me, Cyphoidbomb, but the way that Jackthomas321 is so disrespectful makes me sad. I hope that he only talks that way because of the anonymity of the Internet (not having to state those things to a person's face); otherwise, I assume that he generally is not a person people should be around in real life. May my sisters or heterosexual or bisexual female friends never have a boyfriend or a husband who is like that. Flyer22 (talk) 06:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

It is shocking, abhorrent and so deeply disrespectful that it can only be self-hatred blended with misogyny. I can't laugh at that. May your wish come true, Flyer22. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:02, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Your point is very well understood, Flyer, and pity is a rational response to him. I found it pitiable, but still hilarious, because I appreciate the absurdities of human behavior. Because I didn't fit his shallow model of masculinity, (I wasn't shouting back at him or getting angry) he assumed I must be a woman instead, as if only women must be polite and level-headed. (Frankly, that sounds a lot like misandry too.) He actually said of his own free will: "When something is wrong, a Real Man gets angry whereas a coward behaves polite." If there's one thing a bigot is, it's ignorant. And believe me, it was my instinct to deliver an equivalent tirade about misogyny and to tell him that Western society shuns that absurd mindset, but based on how quickly he is prone to irrational responses and rage, and assuming that his comments are in earnest, I think he's far beyond broken, and polite society will kick his ass accordingly, or banish him to his miserable comfort zone, a byproduct of a backward mindset, rather than as a catalyst for change and improvement. Also there were Do Not Feed the Trolls considerations, which precluded me from poking the bear. Sorry you didn't at least get a chuckle, but on the other hand, I got a real taste of misogyny directed at me, which was educational. :/ Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both. Yes, Cyphoidbomb, what you experienced with Jackthomas321 is undoubtedly what a lot of girls and women face. I've thankfully mostly experienced misogyny on the Internet, as opposed to in real life, but I've experienced sexism often enough, including occasionally from my brothers. As a child, the sexism was the typical "girls are weaker/you can't play this game" type of thing. As an adult, my typical experience with sexism is when a teenage boy or a man states something insulting to me because he apparently finds me attractive; that was also the case when I was a mid-to-late teenager. It's interesting to get your take on misogyny and sexism, since you are a man. Of course, you and Cullen328 are upstanding men from what I can tell, so I appreciate your opinions either way. Flyer22 (talk) 07:27, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I was really shocked reading the comments. I get deeply affected when I see so many Indian men being so misogynistic. One particular comment on Indian women and dogs was especially disturbing. What a terrible, terrible thing to say. :( -- KRIMUK90 ✉ 07:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, that was pretty effed up to say. The guy was simultaneously trying to claim he is enlightened, by expressing awareness that harming women isn't acceptable, and that in his culture, women are less than dogs, which he acknowledges as wrong, but somehow, because I didn't agree that the week-by-week gross values at PK (film) were noteworthy, I'm a special case who needs to be made an example of by being called a prostitute, by suggesting I'm fellating admins, etc. As a man, I want his testicles revoked. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 08:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm reminded of what the great Sofia Vergara had to say to something similar: "What's wrong with having a dick in my mouth"? Classic! -- KRIMUK90 ✉ 09:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Operations vs 'surgeries'

Hi Flyer, I've left this message at the WP:Medmos talk page too.

If you are talking about the discipline, it is surgery. If you are talking about an operating room in the UK, it is called a surgery, so multiple operating rooms might be surgeries. But the procedure is an operation. Multiple surgical procedures are called operations, not 'surgeries'.

BakerStMD T|C 16:01, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

BakerStMD, thanks for taking this matter to the WP:MEDMOS talk page; I'll comment there. Flyer22 (talk) 16:06, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of info in Mary Kay Letourneau article and comment about "fun"

Hello there Flyer 22. There was no reason for you to delete Fualaau's date of birth from the article. That was legitimate information. Also, I don't inject my personal opinion into articles. The comment about the boy having "fun" was placed in the revision history, NOT the article itself.

For your information, Letourneau was an absolute idiot.

Anthony22 (talk) 14:47, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Anthony22 (talk · contribs), as you know, I'd already explained why I deleted your content. As for your "fun" comment, you were editing from a POV (your personal opinion) mindset; that mindset affected your editing, and I commented on it. As for Letourneau being an idiot, let me guess: You think she's an idiot because she didn't hide her sexual crime well enough and instead got caught for it...twice? Flyer22 (talk) 15:12, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Cock tease: It wasn't tagged by the Women's History project

And cock tease has nothing to do with women's history as described by the project. That's why I removed it. Ongepotchket (talk) 13:58, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Ongepotchket, as you likely saw, that Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women's History tag was added by Dimadick in 2011. You are certain that Dimadick was not a member Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women's History? Either way, one does not have to be a member of a WikiProject to tag an article talk page with one of its tags, and a person can easily become a member by simply deciding that they are a member. I reverted you here for the reasons stated in that edit summary. Cock tease, which is about, "derisive sexual slang used to describe a woman who acts in a sexual manner to seduce men without actually fulfilling the sexual actions," and is a "term has been in use in Great Britain and the United States since the 19th century," "has nothing to do with women's history as described by the project"? What part of that project's page, as it currently is, makes it clear that the cock tease topic is not within its scope? I anticipated you reverting me and/or bringing this topic to my talk page; if you had reverted me, I would have taken the matter to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women's History so that they can discuss it. Perhaps the matter should be taken there for discussion regardless.

By the way, I altered the heading of this section with "Cock tease:" so that it is clearer as to what this section is about. Flyer22 (talk) 16:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I trust your edits and input, and the tagging for this article is not a hill I wish to die on today. Probably not tomorrow either. Consider the matter dropped on my end. Ongepotchket (talk) 17:03, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding "beautiful" on Campione!

Hi, as a suggestion on keeping the word "beautiful", you can rewrite the statement as "the (source) anime profile describes her as beautiful" or "X calls her a beautiful". If the premise of the story notes that she is a beauty then that can be cited. That should keep it NPOV. -AngusWOOF (talk) 16:29, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

AngusWOOF, I went to the Campione! article because I had just finished watching the Campione! English dubbed anime in between finishing up some computer-related work. When I finish a series or a film (for example, Nightcrawler starring Jake Gyllenhaal), I am likely to visit the Misplaced Pages article to see what shape the article is in and to see what critics and/or fans thought of the series or film (trusting the WP:Reliable sources more so than the unsourced content). That is, if I haven't already visited the Misplaced Pages article and learned of that stuff. I was annoyed by this edit an IP made to the Campione! article (not sure if that IP is you), which is why I made this WP:Dummy edit, but I'm not interested in pressing the matter. I know that beauty is subjective (well, it often isn't when it's a person that people will generally view as beautiful), but when the character is consistently described or otherwise viewed as beautiful in the series or in the film, I find it odd that someone would mark the plot information as some type of non-neutral POV. If the character was consistently described or otherwise viewed as ugly, a jock, or a nerd, for example, I doubt that the "non-neutral POV" claim would pop up. Or rather I think it would not have a good chance of popping up. Flyer22 (talk) 16:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm fine with retaining such descriptions. I haven't combed through that article like I did with the List of High School DxD characters which has characters that were considered "beautiful" and were called "yamato nadeshiko" by the author and the characters (Akeno in particular). I recently redid List of Totally Spies! characters where on the main three characters, I had removed a bunch of those adjectives, only to put some of them back once I had read the profiles coming from their television websites. As for the Campione! article, I think the character descriptions are way too long but I agree with you that I don't really feel like reading the light novel to find out; perhaps there are description profiles from the light novels and the afterwords that would be sufficient as sources. -AngusWOOF (talk) 18:14, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the character descriptions in the Campione! article are far too long, and that article clearly needs fixing up in general. Speaking of High School DxD, though, I've enjoyed that series a lot. While it does have much unnecessary sexual fan service, I was hooked on that show from the first episode, an episode that is both funny and scary. The show has a nice blend of humor, action and horror, and I made sure to watch the uncensored version. Watching some Season 1 episodes of the non-dubbed version, I see that some of the words that were changed in the English-dubbed version come across significantly better in the non-dubbed version where they are unchanged. My youngest sister loves the series as well, mainly for the love story between Issei and Rias, but hates the sexual fan service that's in it. For example, the first episode of the English dub has all sorts of sexual talk and slang (including dated slang) that is not in the non-dubbed version. And, to be clear, the love story between Issei and Rias is the main reason that I also watch that anime. To that, my sister perhaps would say, "Hey, we're women. Can you blame us?" And then smack herself for the stereotype. Flyer22 (talk) 18:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

The character list articles for that show plus Campione could use a reception section to discuss that. If the portrayals are significantly different across media, that can be listed as well, provided they are supported by the critics reviews or interviews with the animation developers or authors. List of Rosario + Vampire characters#Reception has a good paragraph about the fanservice portrayal for both the anime and manga. When that many critics complain about the fanservice, it isn't just an isolated incident. -AngusWOOF (talk) 18:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

As an additional note: AngusWOOF, I'm not sure what I think of the Campione! anime. It held my attention, per some of the things seen in this trailer for it, but it has a cheesy voice-over introduction (which seems intentionally cheesy) and the romance between Godou and Erica is not well-executed (though I believed that Erica was in love with him for whatever reason). At least the fan service was not overboard. I'm not sure if I should read the Campione! light novel or what. I skimmed a bit of the Campione! manga after watching the anime, but Godou looks too different and significantly younger in the manga, so that made me not too interested in reading it. I prefer that the characters have physical consistency when it comes to manga-to-anime adaptations or vice versa. Flyer22 (talk) 17:39, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm hoping the reviews include some thoughts on the light novel presentation, but they're probably just focusing on the anime, which is fine. -AngusWOOF (talk) 18:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

deleting only completely dead links

Hey dude, I'm only deleting those links which are completely dead i.e. Only those who's link was not recoverable even after a long research and its not my fault that all links that I found belonged to that category. And sorry for any inconvenience. Regards Monarchrob1 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:49, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Monarchrob1, did you read the WP:Dead links page that I pointed you to on your talk page? If not, go ahead and read it and see how it notes that leaving in a dead link might be the best option even after one fails to find a replacement. On your talk page, I was also noting that you should attempt to replace a dead link with a different WP:Reliable source. Removing the source and leaving the text uncited as though it never had a source is not an improvement unless the source is not WP:Reliable or is used in a WP:Synthesis way. Since my post on your talk page about WP:Dead links, you have received another complaint there about removing dead links. Do heed what we are stating on this matter.

On a different note: New discussion sections usually go at the bottom of talk pages, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout. That is why I moved your post down. And to correctly sign your posts, all you have to do is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. A bot had to correct your signature above. Also, consider replying on your talk page when a person starts a discussion there; this keeps the discussion centralized. Flyer22 (talk) 18:07, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Monarchrob1, with all due respect to your intentions, but how come you did a long research to recover a broken link when it took me just one minute to find a alternative URL? Please stop immediately with your removals. Either your skills are not sufficiently developed yet, or you're just making up excuses for not having even tried, because that's the feeling I'm getting here, since your careless removal also deleted a neighboring citation that was AOK. The article I'm talking about is Alpha particle X-ray spectrometer. Nevertheless, best regards, -- Rfassbind -talk 22:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

HIV and or AIDS information

Ok I get it. It is supposed to be about people not the information. That page is a disgrace, doesn't meet the very basics of sexual health that everyone should know, has had in their hand or that are taught to year 10 students and it is not ethical because you mess with peoples lives - controversial is not an explanation for 30 year old basics. The fact that HIV/AIDS is not sorted because of / suggest this model is fundamentally flawed. This lack of progress is not helped (caused?) when the discussion is long winded, piffling, largely ignorant and detached from the point and isn't point-by-point but person-by-person, eg my complaint of conflation with illness is detached and useless. It creates a rambling mess which I find extremely difficult to navigate when it comes to the edit page - it is purposely designed not to be easy. It is demeaning to have to learn this to correct such obvious errors that should not have been allowed in the first place. Does anyone take some responsibility to do a complete re-edit taking everything available into account or will this page continue to carry this silliness? I will make some suggestions about another section which is worse and I would like to know what you think about the content and the complete re-write required. At the moment I am not convinced I can help or should when the page is so obviously poor more than 30 years into the pandemic. Eric Ericglare (talk) 06:42, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello again, Ericglare (talk · contribs). When I moved your comments at the talk page of the HIV/AIDS article, as noted here on your talk page, it wasn't meant to frustrate you or dissuade you from commenting. It was because, as I've stated in the edit summary, the placement of your comments made it seem like your comments were a part of another editor's posts. I know that talk page formatting can be confusing for new and relatively new Misplaced Pages editors; so I suggest that the quickest way for you to learn the formatting is to observe how others add their posts, and then to follow their lead. If you start a new section at the HIV/AIDS article talk page, which is easy to do by clicking on the "New section" option at the top, and explain your issues with the article in that section, others (such as Doc James and Bluerasberry) will listen to what you have to state. They will be more willing to listen, however, if you provide high-quality or otherwise decent medical sources to support your assertions; see Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) (WP:MEDRS). As for messing with people's lives, I don't think that I do in the negative way that you seem to be implying. Flyer22 (talk) 07:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Would you mind re-reading what I wrote and then giving me a reply about its content not an abstract picture of its content. Tip: I did not refer to you. Tip 2: things I did not complain about I mostly agree with. Also why should crappy sources trump common sense such as the meaning of /? Is there something about authoritative sources or is a URL enough? I am annoyed that poor quality with Misplaced Pages has remained all these decades.Ericglare (talk) 08:44, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Ericglare (talk · contribs), it would be better if you make your case in a new section at the article talk page so that all of the WP:Watchers of that talk page can see it and choose to weigh in on it if they want to. Flyer22 (talk) 05:56, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 (talk · contribs), but the newbie page you sent me to said specifically that was a newbie mistake and we should try and integrate. In terms of observing, I'm finding that obscure for determining how and then very difficult to find the information on very basic things (your links were helpful, thanks). Can I assume that most what is in the edit page is typed and not from some function like the the 4 tildes which is pushed ad nauseam instead of being automatic when logged in? Ericglare (talk) 06:42, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

It says what is a newbie mistake? Your formatting? And by "integrate," you mean your posts? You can validly post in an existing section if what you are posting is related to it, but posting in a section that is months or years old, especially if that section is not still active, can cause your comments to be overlooked. Like, Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout states, "If you put a post at the top of the page, it is confusing and can easily be overlooked." Similar is often true of new comments without a new section to go along with them. And if you post in an existing section, make sure that you don't post at the start of the section; doing that makes it look like you started the section (or, in the case that you did start the section, that it began with your new comment). That's part of why I reverted you on a heading matter last year; you probably never checked back to read what I stated there, or you forgot about that section. As for getting better at talk page formatting: Well, besides the WP:Talk guideline I pointed you to before, and my suggestion that you observe the way other Misplaced Pages editors post, Misplaced Pages:Tutorial/Talk pages and Misplaced Pages:Indentation can help you.

By "edit page," you mean the article or talk page? Or both? Whatever the case, yes, that stuff is typed. Additionally, when you are replying on someone's talk page, you don't need to ping that person via WP:Echo; this is because they will already receive the message. I've clearly pinged you twice above since this is my talk page, not yours, and I wanted to make sure you were aware of my replies. I won't ping you to this discussion anymore since I assume that if you want to read my replies, you will check back here; I will go ahead and let you know of this on your talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 07:22, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and you're welcome for the WP:Wikilinks and/or WP:Diff links. Flyer22 (talk) 07:33, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Message from 189.8.107.196

The following comment was moved from your user page

Hi, Flyer22. I'm sorry I am writing it here, but I just started editing Wikis today, and only because I saw what was a blatant biased article on Misplaced Pages - the article on Pope Joan. I have then made some completely unbiased editions there (really neutral, just so it would look less like Catholic propaganda) and all my edits keep getting reversed by the 3 only users who apparently mod that page, which have clear personal biases regarding the Church. I saw that you edited the Feminism page in Wiki and look like a very reasonable and experient Wiki user, which is what I think is needed in that page. Would you bother taking a look at that? Thank you very much and sorry if I posted this in the wrong place :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.8.107.196 (talk • contribs) 3:16, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

IP, looking at that edit history, which shows the disputes going on there, I'd rather not get involved. I've stated the following before on Misplaced Pages: I have enough contentious topics to deal with on this site.

For some contentious topics, I feel a bit unprepared for what is to come because it feels like, or perhaps is the case that, I am the only editor there to meet whatever possible dispute. I have the possible disputes worked out in my head, however, and have a pre-existing reply typed up for one of them. Typing up a pre-existing reply can be especially helpful in the case of a dispute that has been repeatedly addressed. The Feminism article is one contentious article that I have not yet edited and do not have on my WP:Watchlist. So it must instead be a feminism-related page you saw me at. Perhaps the Sexism article? Either way, you should either seek some form of WP:Dispute resolution or the help of an editor who is not as burnt out from WP:Wikistress as I am. Flyer22 (talk) 08:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

please sgay out of it when you don't know history

turkey was established in 1923, prior to that there were no turks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.70.251.91 (talk) 21:25, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

As the reverts at that article show, reverting you there is not a matter of not knowing history. Flyer22 (talk) 21:32, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Commons vote

Hi Flyer. I just voted you for my once a month dumb question. In this vote, do I click the "Vote" below or above the picture of my choice. Also where I could look up answers like this on my own? It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of votes were the wrong choices. Remember 2000 - how many people voted Dubya by mistake? Slight Smile 18:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

You chose the wrong person; I am just as dumb on that matter. Flyer22 (talk) 18:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh well. Maybe I can find a genius at the Commons. Slight Smile 19:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

The top most and bottom most images gives the clue. So it's the Vote button underneath the image of choice. I knew I had a brain somewhere. Slight Smile 19:49, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Your treatment of me

I find you high-handed, bossy, glorying in your greater knowledge of Misplaced Pages policies (which I certainly admit), and seemingly taking pleasure in rubbing my nose in my mistakes. While I have certainly received corrections from other editors, yours consistently have the "I know more than you, you're ignorant" tone to them.

I have already begun avoiding making edits on pages you watch, so as to avoid you.

According to WP:Newbies, "New members are propsective contributors". I'm not a prospective contributor, I'm a contributor. You know more policies than me. Others no doubt know more than you.

From WP:Newbies

"Nothing scares potentially valuable contributors away faster than hostility"
"Our motto and our invitation to the newcomer is be bold"
"If you feel that you must say something to a newcomer about a mistake, please do so in a constructive AND RESPECTFUL manner.
"If possible, point out things they've done correctly or well"
"Make the newcomer feel genuinely welcome"

At all the above, in my judgment, you have failed, at least in your interactions with me. Even were I a newbie, this is not the way Misplaced Pages policies say newbies should be treated.

I think you owe me an apology. deisenbe (talk) 14:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Deisenbe, I stand by all of what I stated to you on your inexperience with editing Misplaced Pages. And what I stated at that talk page was the first time I have specifically addressed you on your inexperience with editing Misplaced Pages. All the other times, I simply reverted you and politely answered your questions, including the ones that, due to my experience with the site and/or awareness of what constitutes a valid reference, I find to be common sense...such as the aforementioned one about porn videos. But enough is enough. If you were a WP:Newbie who was willing to learn from your mistakes and improve, I likely would not have a problem with you. But you barely seem to be improving; you make what are essentially the same types of mistakes without seemingly attempting to improve by learning Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Instead of truly trying to understand why I or another person has reverted you, you act as though you are a victim and are likely to go and mark the revert down as a revert you are disappointed with. For example, with this edit summary, you probably took it as me being bossy and talking down to you; it was instead me reminding you of what are inappropriate references (in this case, porn videos) and cleaning up an article. In our aforementioned discussion about porn videos, you didn't seem willing to understand why those references are inappropriate; you seemed to take it as my or Misplaced Pages's failure to understand why you are in the right on that matter.

Like you stated, you have been registered with Misplaced Pages since 2005. But like I stated, you are essentially a WP:Newbie. And WP:Newbies that don't seem to want to improve in their Misplaced Pages editing will have that wake-up call sooner or later if they decide to keep editing Misplaced Pages. I will not apologize for urging you toward your wake-up call in that regard. If I owe you an apology, you owe me an apology for consistently leaving messes for me and others to clean up. And as for my experience with editing Misplaced Pages, there are few (if any) who know more about Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines than I do. When I was a WP:Newbie, I quickly snapped into shape so that others would not have to clean up my Misplaced Pages messes; anything less is not fair. But you know what they say: Life is not fair. Flyer22 (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

And on a side note: WP:Newbie is a guideline, not a policy. Flyer22 (talk) 15:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing your expertise. I was not aware that WP:Newbie is guideline, not policy. Now I understand why you are free to ignore it. deisenbe (talk) 17:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Deisenbe, I don't ignore it. Misplaced Pages guidelines are obviously meant to be followed; the exception is a WP:Ignore all rules case. I hope that by pointing you to the WP:Ignore all rules policy, you don't start waving it around to excuse any inappropriate editing on your part. And while we're on the topic of thanks, thank you for your "17:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)" comment; it shows me that informing you of appropriate Misplaced Pages editing and that you should strive to be better at editing Misplaced Pages if you are going to be editing it as much as you do is futile. Flyer22 (talk) 17:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Asking for input on the campus rape article

Hi Flyer22. I saw you edited the campus rape page recently. I am wondering if you could offer your input there on a potential NPOV issue. Opinion pieces by Christina Hoff Sommers, who is not an expert, are used several times as citations for prevalence of campus rape, while other authors and studies (of far more reliability, in my opinion) have been removed (again) in recent days. The page is suffering from what I believe is POV-pushing. I am asking a third party to take a look as the first step to resolving this conflict, rather than start what could become another edit war. Thanks. Ongepotchket (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Ongepotchket, I am aware of all of the WP:Edit warring and POV-pushing going on at the Campus rape article. I'm staying out it because it's too much for me; see, for example, what I stated in the #Message from 189.8.107.196 section above. Topics concerning women and rape or other sexual assault always attract the attention of editors who shouldn't be editing those articles or who edit them poorly. At the Campus rape article talk page, I recently got out of trying to get editors to understand when and when not an article should be moved, and there were editors who still didn't see why moving the article would be wrong. So I can only imagine how frustrating debating editors there on other matters would be. I know that it's not what you want to read, but I decline to get involved. Flyer22 (talk) 22:07, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Lede image in Boy

Hi Flyer22.

Of course it's a matter of opinion about the quality of the new born infant image. It was submitted by the administrator Dennis Brown and it is fact an image of his fellow administrator Drmies' new born boy. I don't think it's a particularly good image. Moreover the fact that it's a boy is somewhat superfluous here as the infant could either be a boy or a girl for all we know. Also we already have an image of a white Caucasian in the Spain image below.

It's curious that there is a dearth of high quality images of boys on Commons. I simply thought this the best of the bunch. C1cada (talk) 11:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

C1cada, you are pretty familiar with Misplaced Pages for a relatively new account; you apparently even WP:Watchlisted the Boy article to see my response to your removing the image. Either that, or you check backed into the edit history manually. And, yes, I'm always suspicious editors who clearly are not new to editing Misplaced Pages but have a brand new Misplaced Pages account and will be thought of as new by others. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with the image. And I highly doubt that the newborn is a girl (unless the baby comes to identify as that way later on); it doesn't strike me as something that Drmies would lie about. But it did cross my mind that you or someone else might argue that a person cannot tell from looking at the image that the child is a boy. Well, I thought that a person might argue that until I clicked on the image soon after you removed it and saw that Drmies is the uploader. You should have taken this matter to the article's talk page, so that everyone watching that article can know where to weigh in on this matter. But I'll go ahead and point to this section via a WP:Dummy edit in that article's edit history. I'm not too interested in debating this matter, but your reason for removing the image was, in my opinion, not valid. I also see that Gerda Arendt added the image back, but in a way that is supposed to be a compromise.

By the way, yes, that was an awful typo you made to the heading of this section. I saw you at my talk page from my WP:Watchlist before deciding to read what you wrote. And before I did, I was like, "Oh, goodness, don't tell me I've come across some bizarre editor who thinks that the image is lewd." Flyer22 (talk) 12:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

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