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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Darknipples (talk | contribs) at 19:41, 18 February 2015 (→Advice about that image: options?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Say Hello

Welcome to Misplaced Pages!

I responded to your question at the Teahouse. Most editors use automated templates to welcome new editors. When I see someone new who shows signs of sincerity and a genuine interest, I prefer a personalized greeting. So, I am a real person, not a template or a robot program. I am welcoming you here. If you ever have a sincere question about editing Misplaced Pages, please ask. If you need a quick response, please ask at the Teahouse. If you want a thoughtful, in depth response but aren't in a rush, please feel free to ask on my talk page. We need new editors to this wonderful encyclopedia. Because it is so vast, it is also quite complicated. Feel free to ask questions at any time, and thank you for your willingness to.get involved . Cullen Let's discuss it 06:55, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks!

I appreciate the welcome and the personalized greeting. I've been reading the "referencing for beginners" page, but I haven't quite figured it out yet. I hate to leave the page in it's current state while I'm learning, so, if your offer to help me with the correction still stands, I'll gladly take take you up on it - https://en.wikipedia.org/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States#Notes_and_references - I also looked at the talk page and noticed that it's been a few years since anyone has done any edits or used the talk page. I did notice some contentious debates between some of the editors, which wasn't surprising at all. There is so much to learn, I'm glad people like yourself are friendly enough to help out. I realize there may have been some hesitancy due to my silly user name. What can I say? I have a relatively sophomoric sense of humor... Thanks again for all your help, and I look forward to chatting with you again, soon. Darknipples (talk) 22:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello Darknipples. It looks like you were able to correct the reference problem on your own. As for your user name, yes, it is a trifle risque, but I don't think it violates our policy on account names. The only concern I would have is whether it might bring unwanted attention your way, but the decision is yours. I wish you well. Cullen Let's discuss it 23:47, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

FWIW, I don't like your user name, but that's not what brought me here. Coincidentally, I worked on the Gun show article Controversies section today and I agree that "Gun show loophole" would be a better section title. However, I think you should move your comments/question to a new talk page section. The one you used is long and hasn't been active in over a year. Lightbreather (talk) 03:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

About My User Name

"FWIW, I don't like your user name" - I'm afraid it isn't worth much, as I think it's too late to change it, but I appreciate your honesty.

You've only been editing about a week. Ask Cullen328 if there's a way to change it - if you want to. He's got a lot more experience than I, and he probably knows how you could do it. But only if you want to. It is your username, not mine, and you should keep it if you want to.

But whatever name you use, remember to sign all your posts with the four tildes. Lightbreather (talk) 15:49, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I've decided your nickname (DN) suits me well. Thanks LB!! DN 18:10, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it screws up my signature Darknipples (talk) 02:35, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I've been re-reading your user talk page, and I want to say that I no longer have a problem with your username. It's no more "offensive" than say "Palemoustache" or "Hairyknuckles." Lightbreather (talk) 18:32, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

About Me

I am apprehensive about sharing any of my personal information in any kind of social media format. Too many weirdos.Darknipples (talk) 00:49, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I hear you on that. I used to have my gender and marital status on my user page. Now it's more neutral. Editors who have worked with me regularly know I'm a woman - the cat's out of the bag, so to speak - but I don advertise it anymore. Here's a story I read just this morning re misogyny on user-based sites: "http://www.zdnet.com/quoras-misogyny-problem-a-cautionary-tale-7000030762/". Most of the editor's I've worked with here have been respectful, but there are some who have absolutely no respect for women.

Again, remember to sign your posts with four tildes. Lightbreather (talk) 15:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions

I am new to wiki, so I appreciate and welcome most suggestions and constructive criticisms.

Hi DN, welcome to the fray... :) The fewest and best pieces of advice I can give you are these. Even when its intended that way, don't ever take anything personally. Taking things personally is the mother of all problems on this site. On a similar note, nothing said/written is insulting if you are not insulted by it. In other words, Misplaced Pages is a place where a "thick skin" is useful especially until you get to know the landscape and understand the community a bit better. That said, please do make every effort to enjoy your editing. Writing or improving articles for the betterment of the site is nice, but if you're not having any fun, what's the point. By the way, the easiest way to sign your posts is to hit the signature icon in the menu bar above the edit box, it looks like a pencil making a signature. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 15:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I look forward to learning all I can and improving the "Gun Show" page with you. Darknipples (talk) 17:58, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

You're quite welcome! I see that you're learning fast and that's a good sign. I noticed that you're already using the {{U|Scalhotrod}} notification template. One other piece of advice I'd like to offer is that "patience wins". Too often Editors force an issue (about content, a source, an image, etc.) and demand an almost immediate resolution. As much as I prefer to check things off and move on, the world is just not always that simple. Events often develop further, new evidence comes to light through investigations, or in some extreme cases the situation as its known via a prevalence of sources completely changes. Example I can think of are the people wrongly convicted and put into prison who were released when DNA evidence proved them innocent. Obviously we can't afford to wait years to properly write an article, but waiting days or weeks is sometimes far more prudent as often high quality and reliable sources emerge. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 14:35, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Here's one tip. Thick skin is useful, but it's even more useful to always, always follow the WP:CIVILITY policy (scroll down to "Avoiding incivility"). Many, many users here do not follow them - especially on controversial topics. Do not let them bait you into being uncivil. Always, always keep article talk page posts on content, not character. Lightbreather (talk) 15:07, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

FOPA

I haven't seen much in the way of activity on the talk page there. I noticed some inconsistencies and lack of references. I feel confident I could add some useful information and citations, as I have an interest in gun laws. http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/46hard.pdf Darknipples (talk) 21:54, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

User name, senior editor, loophole

Hello Darknipples,

If you are interested in changing your name, please see WP:RENAME.

The senior editor badge on my user page means only that I have been active more than four years, and have more than 24,000 edits. That gives me no special powers, and my recommendations are no better than any other editor's, except to the extent that I may know the policies a bit better.

I probably won't have much more to say on the gun show issue. I rarely enjoy editing in divisive topic areas, and find this particular area polarizing. As I take a middle ground personally, I find both sides of the dispute to be inflexible.

Please be aware that gun control articles are subject to ArbCom sanctions, and I recommend that you proceed with great caution until you better understand the internal Misplaced Pages issues involved with editing in this area. I wish you well. Cullen Let's discuss it 17:13, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I am not ignoring you. I read everything that you wrote. It is just that I am very busy off Misplaced Pages and didn't have time to write a lengthy response. Cullen Let's discuss it 22:32, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Cullen, if I misread your actions, or was acting impatiently, I apologize. DN 23:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

No apology needed, I was just clarifying. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Hint

Hi DN,

I see you accumulating a long list of sources about the gun show loophole here on your talk page. That is a perfectly legitimate thing to do, but I don't think your talk page is the best place to do it. Instead, I suggest that you use your sandbox page or a user subpage. You can have an unlimited number of sandbox pages and user subpages, for use in developing articles, research or experimenting with wikicode.

But the primary purpose of your talk page is to engage in conversation with other editors. So, please consider my suggestion, although the choice is yours in the end. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:20, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not. I figured if someone wanted to spitball with me about the "gun show" page, they could just comment on what I've researched so far. I can't thank you enough for your advice Cullen, it really has made me feel welcome. I did have one question. I like the nickname DN, but when I add it in on the preference page, my "signature" seems to disappear, and then my comments come up as unsigned. Any thoughts? Darknipples (talk) 10:30, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Did you check the box that says "Treat the above as wiki markup"? Cullen Let's discuss it 17:53, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I did. I will keep trying. In the mean time, would you mind looking in at the "gun show (loophole)" talk page and give me some pointers? Some editors are telling me that "the page is fine as it is", but are the ratings on it good for an article it's age? One said it should be deleted because of all the negative references to gun shows, but they refuse to separate it from the "loophole" aspect that is causing their contention. There are other political/legal articles with the word loophole in the title, but they say it's WP:OTHER? They also say I have a WP:POV Bias, or something to that effect. Should a 3rd party resolution be considered? Sorry for the rant, but I do appreciate you advice quite a bit. Is there someone else I should talk to? Thanks CULLEN Darknipples (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

(apparently that has been a separation and the terms are now free from each other) - Darknipples (talk) 19:52, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Gun Shows in the United States

Editors of this page are encouraged to respond here. Darknipples (talk) 14:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Gun show loophole

I WP:SPLIT the section of the Gun shows in the United States article that had to do with the gun show loophole into it's own article: Gun show loophole. Go and make it the best article you can. I will be watching, as will Scalhotrod and Anastrophe, too, I am sure. Lightbreather (talk) 19:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm surprised and delighted. I will start working on it tonight. Need to get some (real world) work done for now. - Respectfully Darknipples (talk) 19:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Great. I look forward to seeing your work. Also, I just removed one indent from your reply. Modifying another editor's talk-page posts is generally frowned upon, but you need to work on those indents. (It seems you're remembering your signature most of the time now. Good!) Lightbreather (talk) 19:48, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Two tips on your edits today. Certain, standard WP sections, when they're used, are expected to go in a certain order, per - WP:ORDER. Also, although you can link (wikilink) to other Wiki articles - see WP:WIKILINKS - you can't use a Wiki article as a source. Lightbreather (talk) 02:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the direction - I am more comfortable discussing changes on the talk page before making changes. Anastrophe seems to have corrected many of my mistakes. I am starting to get the hang of this. Darknipples (talk) 02:49, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Indents and outdents

Hi, DN. Couple of things. First, you're doing OK. Feel like you're learning a bit about how to use WP?

Second, I think you might want to work on your indents and outdents on the talk pages. Please review Good practices for all talk pages used for collaboration, WP:INDENT, and any links in those discussions to do with indenting and outdenting.

Also, remember to sign with four tildes (or place your cursor where you want your signature - at the end of your posts - and use the signature icon at the top of the text box). Lightbreather (talk) 16:04, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Invitation

We invite you to join Gender Gap task force. There you can coordinate with users who are trying to identify gender bias on Misplaced Pages (including gender bias in articles, in editor interactions, policies and implementation of policies) and take steps to counter it. If you would like to get involved, just visit the Gender Gap task force. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me or other members of the task force. Happy editing, Lightbreather (talk) 16:48, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Another invitation

Thank you for inviting me to edit the article Gun show loophole. I am flattered that you appreciate my edits on other articles. I had a quick look at the article and its talk page, and I can see why you are looking for additional experienced editors. However, I don't think I'm the editor you're seeking, for several reasons. First, I think I agree with the editors who view the title itself as POV. Although the basic controversy is a legitimate one, I don't think a title for an article should be POV. The same material could be covered in a section of the Gun shows article or a separate article on controversies arising from gun shows. Second, my efforts in editing controversial articles are to try to bring balance to those I think are unbalanced. Articles can be unbalanced in several ways, but I think the most serious is by pulling the punches of one side of the argument, so that that side is represented by an easily-discounted straw man. When that happens, the article has a superficial appearance of balance, but it actually is POV. It takes a lot of work to get balance under these circumstances. I would urge you to focus your efforts, not on one side of the argument, but to try to get true balance. Finally, this article would be a real challenge because it is lengthy and the talk page is already voluminous. Because I have other unfinished projects, I need to decline. Best wishes, --Zeamays (talk) 02:59, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Technical comments on external wikilinks

I noticed that you seem to have added a number of external links to Misplaced Pages which could be stated as internal links. As an example,

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFF#What_about_article_x.3F

should be replaced by:

WP:OTHERSTUFF#What about article x?

(even though it appears irrelevant in the context you added it). This is a technical comment only, although I do not agree with what you have written in Talk:Gun show loophole, I do think you are writing in good faith, and your arguments could be more convincing and easier to read if you applied standard Wikimarkup conventions. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 05:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Please join us!

We would love you to join the Gender Gap task force. There you can coordinate with editors who are addressing the effect of the gender gap on women on Misplaced Pages – whether as article subjects, editors or readers. If you would like to help, please sign up or visit the talk page. Happy editing, Lightbreather (talk) 00:48, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Where have you been? Come back, woman... and bring a lady friend! ;-) LB

Times are tough. I am working 2 jobs and trying to get back in school. When you were banned from "gun politics" I felt alone, so I just kept an eye on it. Luckily, the "loophole" article has managed to survive and even improve a little. Did you see the anonymous message someone left me on the talk page? Darknipples (talk) 03:09, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Notice

Apparently, IP editor 172.56.9.123 (talk) thinks you are my puppet. He started a sockpuppet investigation (SPI in WP jargon) about me and named you as a suspected sockpuppet. I don't think it will go anywhere, but you ought to know.

If you want to respond (I can't say whether it's better to respond or not to respond), read SPI Guidance, especially the section Defending yourself against claims. Lightbreather (talk) 18:04, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Booyah - The accusers are full of shit - https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Lightbreather#Clerk.2C_CheckUser.2C_and.2For_patrolling_admin_comments

Test Kaffeeklatsch area for women-only

Since WikiProject Women as proposed at the IdeaLab may take some time to realize, and based on a discussion on the proposal's talk page, I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch area for women only (cisgender or trans-woman, regardless of sexual orientation).

It is a place where women can go and be sure they'll be able to participate in discussions without being dominated by men's advice, criticism, and explanations. If interested, your participation would be most welcome. Lightbreather (talk) 19:14, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

I do appreciate the invite, and I'm flattered, but I do not wish for people to identify me as a woman or a man. As it stands, no one has any reason or evidence to label me. I need that in order to continue my work here. Darknipples (talk) 19:23, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

H. Sterling Burnett

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I didn't understand your question.

Could you restate it here? Capitalismojo (talk) 06:11, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@Capitalismojo:: With regard to your point that it is "ref'd to a non-RS". Removal of the citation that is from the New England Journal of Medicine while leaving the NRA material seems like WP:UNDUE WEIGHT. The NEJoF citation seems solid by WP standards. If you have an issue with the RS of this material why not create a section to discuss it on the GSL talk page before deleting it? The page is under heavy scrutiny as it is. This is a very controversial article and it has been very difficult to improve it from both sides of the issue. With all due respect, you may not have noticed that I have been (personally) harassed on this article's TP by an IP editor for trying to maintain WP:WEIGHT, and I am still having to deal with WP:HA as we speak. See - https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AGun_show_loophole&diff=644652445&oldid=644652185 - What I have learned from this, is that it is important not to make changes to the article without discussing them with other editors on the article, and making sure my changes are backed up by WP policies and quality citations. If this helps you, please post your reply to my question on the GSL talk page. If you need further clarification I'm willing to keep discussing this with you, but please understand that I am seemingly being targeted by random editors for trying to improve this article. Put yourself in my shoes, if you will. Darknipples (talk) 06:47, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement discussion

I am requesting action at WP:AE regarding a section at Talk:Gun show loophole which you edited. Johnuniq (talk) 06:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

• Please remove your recent edits at WP:AE. The admins there hate bickering, and the request is now closed so adding stuff is not helpful. There are lots of IPs interested in guns and it is no surprise that there are still IPs posting on the article talk page. The admin blocked the IP who restored the section because that IP is an open proxy, but other IPs are free to comment. If someone restores the talk page section, I will notify the admin who will attend to the matter. It's best if you ignore the issue. If I don't notice a problem, please bring it to my attention although I might be slow responding (but I will respond). Johnuniq (talk) 09:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

• Consider it done @Johnuniq:. Thank you for your guidance. Darknipples (talk) 09:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Previous comments at WP:ARBCOM -- https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#67.163.88.57 -- is moved here...

I'm not sure what the "block" was supposed to do but this editor is still participating on the talk page which does not make sense if he is "blocked"

Oppose this article is currently not about "background checks" in general, it is about the specific instance of background checks in relation to gunshows. The proposed much broader scope is something for a new article to cover. I see no reason for it expanding the scope of the current article, as it is a tightly defined topic that is notable and in the news in and of itself. If this article needs renaming, then Background checks at gun shows for firearm sales in the United States would solve that problem. -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 08:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry if I misunderstood what this means... - respectfully - Darknipples (talk) 09:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

And a new one on the article now... https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Gun_show_loophole&diff=644671564&oldid=644670329 -- Darknipples (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions notification - Gun control

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)Template:Z33

Indents and outdents

I know it gets confusing because people use different templates and some use bullets and some don't, but the basic indenting (and outdenting) is used mostly the same by everyone. And some people take it personally if you fail to do it right most of the time. Here's a review: WP:INDENT. Lightbreather (talk) 21:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Resilient Barnstar
	You've learned so much, and it shows. Nice balancing added yesterday. And your technical skills are improving, too. Lightbreather (talk) 16:33, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Question

Hey. I saw your question at The Teahouse concerning "WP:CRUSH". What is that? I tried searching for it but found nothing. I know this is wired. I don't think it was worth asking at the Teahouse so I asked you. DangerousJXD (talk) 06:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Talk pages

About article talk pages: Unless they're articles with no or few disputes, older talk-page discussions are meant to eventually be archived. Also, you need to be careful about renaming sections and subsections, because sometimes they're linked to from other pages, and if you rename them a person trying to find them later via such a link will come up empty handed and have to do a manual search.

I do sometimes add "Sources" sections to article talk pages, but I try to limit them to a bulleted list of sources, and not a lot of text pulled from the sources, cause it causes the page to get awfully big really fast.

That's not to say that I don't sometimes give bits of text and a source or two to support an argument.

--Lightbreather (talk) 18:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

"Intrastate"

Gotta love that one of the longest discussion threads on the GSL page revolves around a single word, involves vehement disagreement, and is entirely in good faith. Misplaced Pages is a bit strange. Faceless Enemy (talk) 05:02, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Faceless Enemy Ha. Yes, it's too easy to get wrapped up in it sometimes, and it can be difficult to figure out communication issues. I assure you it's not the first time there has been such a debate over a single word, and chances are it won't be the last. But we will get through this together. Cheers! Darknipples (talk) 05:50, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

A pie for you!

Thank you for coming to my Talk page to discuss your concerns. I did not see your comments on the GSL Talk page until after we had our discussion on my Talk page. I did just post a reply to you on the GSL page as well. Regards, Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 01:24, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Advice about that image

Do not restore that image again. They are trying to bait you into edit warring. (Someone obviously alerted Y.) Let's let the WP:NPOVN discussion collect some feedback. Lightbreather (talk) 19:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

@Lightbreather: I'm aware of 3RRR. Baiting is very unethical. What options do I have? Darknipples (talk) 19:40, 18 February 2015 (UTC)