Talk:Citizens Commission on Human Rights

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9/11 conspiracy

Freedom magazine is apparently blacklisted by Misplaced Pages, so I could not add this source which describes in detail the vast psychiatric conspiracy, entitled "The Terror Doctors". I can't even put the link here. Speaking of which, does anyone know which event it was that Miscavige revealed this conspiracy, claiming (quite erroneously) that al-Qaeda is a direct descendant of the medieval Assassins who were reputed to use hashish to create suicidal martyrs and all that? I believe it was the New Year's Event, but not sure. If we can find a source for this, it would be great because the claims made by the church regarding the Assassins were disproven a long, long time ago, considering the idea of Muslim soldiers martyred in battle would ascend to heaven with 72 virgins for eternity was a fabrication invented by the Crusaders. Considering that not a single reliable source in Islam mentions any of this, and it's today only parroted by anti-Muslim activists, this would be good to detail in the article, preferably with reliable rebuttals. Laval (talk) 23:59, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

This page is in violation of WP:Due/ Undue policy

This page reads likde a promo piece practically taken straight from the literature of the CCHR itself. The majority view of RS on the CCHR is not to be found fully expressed on this page anywhere. I propose that in order for this page to be restored to compliance with WP:Due and WP:Undue, that this page be reverted back to an earlier edition/ version when it was in compliance with these two policies. Scott P. (talk) 18:22, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Efforts for psychiatric reform section is not balanced

CCHR and Scientology has had both a positive and a negative impact on the way psychiatric treatment has been practiced. It is difficult to separate Scientology from CCHR in a discussion like this, as the CCHR's attitudes to psychiatry are identical to the Scientology Organization and attitudes of Scientologist people to psychiatry are influenced by CCHR material.

For simplicity, and to avoid discussions about whether it is a front group I will use the term Scientology to apply to the Scientology organization and CCHR.

The Chelmsford Hospital success story is one of the examples of the positive. At the same time, the attitude of Scientology to psychiatry has also led to Scientologists not receiving treatment for mental illness.

This has lead to and been implicated in many deaths, most notably Jett Travolta and Lisa McPherson, both of whom were denied treatment on the basis of denial of well accepted psychiatric facts.

I think that a section that says Psychiatry vs. CCHR and Scientology which poses both the positive and negative aspects of the conflict would be appropriate.

This particular section reads like a promotional piece. Although my superficial examination and my knowledge of the Scientology organization lead me to believe that most of the facts here are accurate, it is certainly not balanced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elevenwar (talk • contribs) 02:33, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I haven't reviewed the section closely, but from a quick cursory check of citations used, it appears to be very well sourced for the most part. It doesn't look like any primary sources are being used as most of the sources, if not all of them are sourced to legitimate (non-tabloid) news sources and the wording doesn't come across as promotional to me. The basic Misplaced Pages view on this can be summarized as "verifiability, not truth". That basically means that article content must reflect, as closely as possible, material previously published in a reliable source, rather than the opinions or interpretations of individual editors.

For example, you mention Jett Travolta. Take a look at this paragraph from the John Travolta article: . You'll notice there is no claim or statement blaming anyone or anything for his son's death. Why? Because the theory that Scientology or Scientology policies or his parents were somehow responsible for "denying" or "withholding" medication is not verifiable. It's absolute speculation. You can also look at this discussion: for an example of the complexity surrounding such matters and how they should be handled on Misplaced Pages.

It's a similar situation over at the Lisa McPherson article. Regardless, neither Lisa McPherson nor Jett Travolta appear to have any connection, direct or otherwise, with CCHR and its anti-psychiatry campaigning. If there is a verifiable connection, then a reliable source would be needed to support the assertion.

Regarding balance, there is already a section on controversies, which I've renamed as "Controversies and criticisms" that certainly could use expansion.

My advice would be to open up a "request for comment" and have other editors chime in and see if others agree that the article is promotional or biased in favor of the subject. Laval (talk) 09:04, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Laval, I see no need to open an RFC for this topic. You yourself have not denied that the article is in violation of WP:Due/ Undue. Currently the article is 90% positive, and 10% negative. In order to properly reflect the balance of RS, this ratio needs to be reversed. Merely renaming the "Controversy" section to the "Controversy and criticism" section in no way reverses that balance. Unless you take it upon yourself to start an RFC on this, I will soon do the necessary work needed to reverse this balance as needed. If you do start an RFC on this, while it may buy a day or two for the current article, I still don't see how such an RFC could allow this article to continue in its flagrant violation of WP:Due/ Undue policy. Thanks, Scott P. (talk) 04:46, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

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