Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mfv (talk | contribs) at 11:55, 21 August 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This article was nominated for deletion on 25 February 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Removing details inserted by user concerning naked short-selling, which as stated were skewed entirely to the "anti-shorting" position. Interested users can go to the naked short selling page, where a consensus article is being hammered out. I've also removed a paragraph of hagiography and unduly self-promotional and does not belong in a Misplaced Pages profile. --Tomstoner 02:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I've added some details re recent controversies and widespread press coverage. Also I did a bit of reassembly of the article, which I think was a bit disorganized. Tried my best to be as neutral as possible. Let me know what you think. --Lastexit 14:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Added the following: (1) His semi retraction of the Sith Lord comment (2) Gradient Analytics as the firm being sued with Rocker Partners (3) Worldstock Reference (4) Patrick's presentation on NSS

Removed the following: (1) Links to articles that were one sided as reference. Mfv 02:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted your links and quotes from non-notable websites and reinstated the notable links you removed. Please review WP:RS. Thanks. --Mantanmoreland 03:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Mantanmoreland, I reverted your changes as the reference was given directly by Overstock : http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-13-2006/0004248568&EDATE=. I also felt the reference to Gradient Analytics and WorldStock to be pertinent. Please let me know if you feel otherwise before reverting with a broad brush. Thanks. Mfv 03:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

No, just because a non-notable website is mentioned in a press release does not mean that you can quote from it and link to it in the article. Please study WP:RS, which specifically refers to quotes on non-verifiable bulletin boards and websites. Even if it were quotable, the quote re "Al Qaeda" doesn't retract the "Sith Lord" comment and is used way out of proportion to the significance of the quote. Additionally it is improperly placed in the beginning of the article, where it does not belong.

Additionally, I cautioned you against removing citations to notable publications and substituting a non-notable "BusinessJive" website. Again, I ask that you study WP:RS.

These changes strike me as POV edits. Do not make further reversions without discussing. Thanks.--Mantanmoreland 04:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

These are quotes and presentations made and written by Patrick Byrne, for which the article is about (are you questioning this?). Overstock is his company and that they made reference to the source is pertinent to whether the source is reliable. "Al Qaeda" is supplemental to the phrase "By the way, the "Sith Lord" reference which so excited you fellows is probably imperfect" which eludes to a retraction. --Mfv 04:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, even if this quote appeared on a verifiable website you are inflating that comment out of proportion. It does not belong in the first paragraph, and it is not a "retraction." Your other edits, particularly the removal of critical links, are POV pushing, pure and simple. I've asked you twice already to stop this POV pushing; you have responded by further reverts. Stop the edit warring. --Mantanmoreland 04:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

How am I inflating the comment? He clearly states that the Sith Lord term is "imperfect" <verbatim>. That you are arguing this seem POV to me. The links you published are media links and highly one sided. Feel free to post them in context under the "Media" column where they belong. I've published works and companies directly attributed to Patrick Byrne, again, for which this article is about. --Mfv 04:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The "Al Qaeda" comment does not belong in the very first paragraph. "Worldstock" is a non-notable PR endeavor by the company and does not belong in this article at all. Misplaced Pages is not an adveritising service. Reread my previous comments concerning your other changes. I'm not going to waste my breath further on this, as you are clearly here to edit war and to push an agenda. These are not good faith edits on your part.--Mantanmoreland 04:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You make statements (and accusations) without justification. Why does it not belong? Patrick made a "Sith Lord" statement and later clarifies on it. Why would you desire to publish one and not the other? And that you claim WorldStock is "PR" and "non-notable" is certainly your opinion and quite frankly, speaks volumes to your interest here. People can google worldstock and come to their own conclusions. --Mfv 04:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I have attempted to add some content that is relevant to this article and have properly sourced where necessary. It appears Mantamoreland has disasgreed. I am asking for a third party review before I go to mediation. Here are my justifications:

1) Patrick indeed made reference to a "Sith Lord" during one of his conference calls. Several months later, Tim Mullaney, of Businessweek sent Patrick a list of questions to which Patrick responded openly on the internet. The precise questions can be found here: . The particular response, from Patrick, pertinent to this discussion reads:

"By the way, the "Sith Lord" reference which so excited you fellows is probably imperfect. A better one is Al Qaeda: a loosely organized confederacy united by an ideology but lacking central control."

Which I've tried to include in response to the "Sith Lord" reference in the first paragraph of this article. Mantanmoreland first claims this was reference from a non-notable website, yet when I responded that Overstock itself issued a PR release referencing this site as the source for Patrick's response , I am told that it simply doesn't belong here, though it speaks directly to what the first paragraph of this article is about. I remain confused.

2) I attempted to add a reference to WorldStock, an endeavor that Patrick calls the "Best idea of my life." in his response to a poster on The Motley Fool. He also mentions it again in his cancer speech (currently referenced in this article ). I am met with a statement, again from mantanmoreland, that claims that Worldstock is a "PR" stunt and "non notable". Again, I remain confused.

3) I posted a link in the "External Link" section that points to a presentation on Naked Short Selling authored by Patrick Byrne and was, yet again, told this is hosted from a non-notable site. Again, I point out that the reference was given by Patrick himself .

4) I recommend that we move the media references from the External Links to the "Media" section and provide context as one of the articles is highly biased (The Register). There has been no response to this.

5) I attempts to add the name "Gradient Analytics" to the article to clarify the research firm that Overstock is suing along with Rocker Partners. This was removed wholesale without justification.

Can someone outside of Mantanmoreland and Eskog (who re-editted w/o discussion) comment?

Thanks --Mfv 11:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)