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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Volunteer Marek (talk | contribs) at 07:12, 9 August 2016 (→Statement by Volunteer Marek). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Doc9871

62.0.34.134

Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

EtienneDolet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:03, 7 August 2016‎ (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
My very best wishes (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:EE
WP:ARBAPDS

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes have a history of tag-teaming in edit wars. Lately they have been doing this in articles relating to American politics.
Examples: Since July 24, Volunteer Marek was edit-warring at Debbie Wasserman Schultz, especially regarding material on criticism of how DWS handled the NGP VAN data breach and the fact that she was booed off the stage at the DNC .

Then on August 2, My very best wishes, who had hitherto never shown any interest in the article, appears out of nowhere to revert on behalf of Volunteer Marek .

Same thing at Clinton Foundation on 8-9 July: Mvbw steps in to revert on behalf of VM over a POV tag . They're tag teaming over other information as well: .

Same thing at Donald Trump on July 4: VM adds some text , and after it is removed, Mvbw shows up a few hours later to re-add it, even though he has never edited the article before . This appears to be a clear-cut example of WP:GAME so as to circumvent the 1RR restrictions in this particular article.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• I have warned both users about the tag-teaming here and here.
• VM alerted of EE sanctions by Callanecc. VM also alerted of WP:ARBAPDS sanctions by Kelly
• Mvbw alerted of EE sanctions by EdJohnston. Aware of WP:ARBAPDS sanctions here.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I had previously made a case request at WP:ARBCOM regarding tag teaming in eastern Europe related articles, but since that area is already under discretionary sanctions, I was told to file at WP:AE instead. There's a long history of tag-teaming, and it is not limited to WP:EE or WP:ARBAPDS.

Beginning mid-2014 (and possibly earlier), Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes appear to be helping each other out in edit-wars by tag-teaming. VM is the more active of the two, and the tag-teaming typically has the form of VM getting involved in an edit-war in an article that Mvbw has not previously edited. Once the edit-war is under way, Mvbw appears out of nowhere and reverts on VM’s behalf. In a minority of instances, it is VM that steps into an edit-war that Mvbw is involved.

Since mid-2014, the tag teaming has occurred over a large number of articles (at least 40 in 2015 alone, although there are possibly more), some of which are quite obscure (e.g. Philip M. Breedlove, Khan al-Assal chemical attack, The Harvest of Sorrow). Initially the tag-teaming was restricted to Eastern Europe-related articles, particularly the Ukraine crisis, but as of 2015 it has spread to non-EE articles (example), hence I'm inclined to believe that it's not merely mutual interests that guides them. Furthermore, though both these editors have edited for a long time, they edited few articles in common in the period 2012-mid 2014, with the number of articles they edit in common skyrocketing after that. It should be noted that VM edits a far larger variety of articles than Mvbw does; however, most of the articles Mvbw chooses to edit after mid-2014 appear to be articles VM edits, especially of those he is facing contention (i.e. the April contributions of Mvbw and VM are noticeably similar). The disruption this has caused is considerable. One example below:

• WP:GAME - Tag-teaming so as to circumvent 1RR articles, which appears to be the case at WP:ARBAPDS as well. See: followed by Mvbw's reverts . Then an attempt to have their opponents blocked at 3RRN . An example of this occurred recently at Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War, where VM ran out of 1RR reverts, only to have Mvbw revert and ultimately have the user blocked.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

@Lord Roem: I just want to clarify that Mvbw did not state that "Putin doesn't fall under the BLP policy"...he said Putin "does not deserve a decent BLP page." Two very different things. He then pushes the notion that Putin is a fascist and similar to Adolf Hitler using that very same article () from that very same comment. It's not a joke, and it's quite serious. As for the timing of this report, it is largely in response of the recent tag-teaming that spread to other topic areas such as AP of which I find concerning. Étienne Dolet (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Volunteer Marek

ED's "evidence"

Let's look at the two examples ED provides which he claims are "evidence of disruption".

• The first one:

"The disruption this has caused is considerable. One example below: WP:GAME (...) Then an attempt to have their opponents blocked at 3RRN "

This is rich. ED is claiming that I, somehow in collusion with MVBW, was "attempting to have the opponent blocked". Who is is this opponent? A newly created single purpose account which immediately started an edit war on a contentious topic. Most likely a sock puppet of another user who just got banned (this was assessment of other editors. This user was pretty clearly trying to sabotage an ongoing WP:MEDIATION). And it was THE OTHER USER who filed the 3RR, NOT me. So how am I "GAMEing" Misplaced Pages policy here? By having myself reported to 3RRN or something? How in the world would I do that? I must have send psychic waves at that other users and mind-controlled them to get them to file a 3RRN report against me, right? I'm sorry but this is just fucking stupid. And what in the world does MVBW have to do with that 3RRN report? Absolutely nothing. This is not evidence. It's mud slinging by ED. Very very dishonest mudslinging - and here is why:

User:NeilN closed that 3RRN report against me with "No violation BRG~itwiki warned about WP:GAMING" ) . That's right, it was THE OTHER USER that was warned about WP:GAMING but here is ED busy dishonestly pretending that it was me who was guilty of WP:GAMING. You're being gaslighted.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• Here is the second piece of "evidence" that ED claims shows that myself and MVBW are "GAMING" the rules: An example of this occurred recently at Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War, where VM ran out of 1RR reverts, only to have Mvbw revert and ultimately have the user blocked.

It's pretty much like the first example. It's the same article, same issue ... wait a minute... could it be... that this right here is EtienneDolet's actual interest in bringing this issue here? That it really has nothing to do with Debbie Wasserman Schultz or Donald Trump or whatever, but that he's just trying to... WP:GAME discretionary sanctions on American-politics articles to try and get his way on a completely different article? Naaaahhhhhhhhhh, couldn't be.

Like I said, it's the same thing. Brand new single purpose account immediately starts an edit war on a controversial article. Same edit war that the other brand new single purpose account started and got blocked on. It's a freakin' sock puppet folks. Come on. I made one revert. MVBW made one revert. So here comes running EtienneDolet claiming that after I "ran out of reverts" (no shit, you only get one) I "had MVBW revert"

Bullshit. I didn't "have" MVBW do ANYTHING. They did whatever they wanted to. I didn't ask anything of them. If ED has evidence to the contrary then they should present it. Else, stop lying about people.

Anyway, just like with the previous example, ED actually fails to provide a link to what actually happened with the result (because then, you'd see that the admins were very much on my side rather than the SPA sock puppets EtienneDolet is trying to champion here). Here it is . It was closed by User:EdJohnston as "24 hours for WP:1RR violation. This editor seems to be limited in their use of English, and this can make it hard for others to understand them". I.e. The SPA newly created account was indeed edit warring, not listening to discussion, etc. And guess what? MVBW did not comment on that report either.

• ED's "hit list" is here. Aside from the Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Donald Trump articles, this is pretty much exactly the "evidence" they brought to ArbCom when they filed a request for a case. IT WAS REJECTED 9 to 1, because all it is is evidence that two users "have similar watchlists". Which I'm sure we do.

Note also that this is cherry picked data. There have been plenty of times where myself and MVBW have disagreed on things but of course ED fails to include those in his list (since it'd pretty much show that his "evidence" is full of it).

The purpose of WP:AE is not to "try" cases that the ArbCom rejected.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:59, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

It's also worth pointing out, now that Athenean has seen fit to comment here, that EtienneDolet's and Athenean's interests overlap in a way similar to mine and MVBW's. And they do edit war together (the Vladimir Putin article being the prime example), support each other in discussions, and on noticeboards - the same kind of "evidence" list can be constructed with cherry picked data. What this means is that unless ED and Athenea want to fess up to some kind of coordination or tag-teaming right here and now, the "evidence" that ED strung together is not evidence at all.

And yes, as Short Brigade Harvester Boris points out ED has been trying to get me sanctioned for quite some time. It's a personal grudge. He's pretty relentless about it. Indeed, this report right here is just WP:FORUMSHOPPING after all their previous failures. The fact that he's bringing up articles from way outside his usual topic area (Donald Trump and DWS) does evidence however that he obviously keeps track of my edits even when they don't concern him, just to try and find something he could report me for (as weak sauce as it is). I believe that's pretty much the definition of stalking.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:59, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@User:Wordsmith, I'm sorry but what is your basis for placing ANY kind of restriction on me in the AP area? I haven't broken a single policy. If you feel otherwise at the very least please indicate what policy I've broken so that I am at least aware of what I'm being accused of. Because right now, the most you could say here is that one user sometimes checks my edit history - not exactly sure how I'm suppose to change that.21:37, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@User:Lord Roem Re . Thank you, exactly. Why is EtienneDolet trying to get me sanctioned for another user's behavior? Especially when even that behavior (MVBW's) isn't sanctionable/disruptive itself? My edits are not disruptive, they haven't broken any policies, they all aim to improve the encyclopedia. Why am I even here??? And yes, EtienneDolet has now tried to get me sanctioned on every single drama board available, from AN/I to 3RR to ArbCom to, now, here. And ALL of these request so far have ended the same way. They were rejected and on several occasions ED has been told to cut it out.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Replies to new comments

Athenean, why are you here? Do you have any interest in articles related to American politics? No. The only reason you are here is because we had a disagreement on a completely unrelated article several months ago (Vladimir Putin). And because you and EtienneDolet regularly "tag-team" in both your "edit-warring" and discussions. Which is why this request is so unbelievably cynical and bad-faithed. It's like you two are projecting your own failures and bad behavior unto others. So you show up here, to opportunistically pursue an old grudge and to help your buddy do the same. You and EtienneDolet are prime examples of users who poison the editing atmosphere on Misplaced Pages with the explicit purpose of driving off editors who have the presumption to disagree with you. I've tried to avoid interaction with you because I find having to interact with you to be extremely noxious and nauseating. But you just had to come here and try to get your kicks in... you have no dog in this fight except your own WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude.

Response to D.Creish's comments.

First, this editor claims "VM removes the accusation replacing the text with the message "(text removed to shorten)" when really text was removed because it was untrue." Jeez christ. That's what I get for trying to follow instructions and shorten my comments. No, just no. I removed the text to freakin' try and shorten my comments. The text was and is true. I presume that D.Creish is incapable of reading my mind so I find it quite obnoxious of them to try and pretend they know what I was thinking when I removed the text. Sheesh.

With regard to User Activist. Yes, he was canvassing. On their talk page they wrote: "@Zigzig20s:, @D.Creish:, @Notque:, I restored the most recent scrubbing of the DWS article by VolunteerM. I expect he or she may be very unhappy.". These are all three users that have "tag-teamed" with Activist on this article before to push a particular POV (which was also a BLP violation). The "he or she may be very unhappy" combined with "I restored" is a pretty clear indication that s/he is ping-ing these users to let them know to come to this article and help them in edit warring or to brigade the discussion. Again, the irony of this report is striking. I, for one, have never written on my talk page anything like "hey MVBW I reverted this guy on this article, and they probably will revert me back so can you keep an eye on it". Yet for some reason I am the one being accused of "tag teaming". Gimme a break.

As to the issue on the Debbie Wasserman Schultz article. The texts that D.Creish and Activist kept on inserting were/are a BLP violation. The first one concerns a frivolous lawsuit which has not gone anywhere. If this wasn't a BLP maybe that'd be acceptable. But in BLPs our primary concern is not to defame the subject and including such material is in violation of BLP policy (of course if the lawsuit actually results in some kind of legal action we can put it in - but then we have to wait until that happens). There are a couple other issues. I'll omit details for sake of brevity. But in each case the issue is the same - BLP violating material which is being inserted into the article simply to make the subject look bad, but which doesn't actually add much encyclopedic value.

So yes, I have reverted these BLP violations. EVEN IF for some reason this material could be legit in this article BOTH BLP policy AND discretionary sanctions require that this is only done with strong consensus. Which, canvassing aside, currently does not exist. On talk, *I* suggested several times that editors who wish to include this material start an WP:RfC or take it to WP:BLPN. Indeed, I took it to WP:BLPN myself: . There User:Sphilbrick essentially agreed with me that these additions were problematic with regard to BLP policy.

I also want to note, that in addition to brining this to WP:BLPN, I'm also the one who initiated the talk page discussions , . It was THE OTHER USERS involved in the dispute who simply reverted without bothering to discuss it on talk, until forced to do so.

So. It was a BLP violation. I am the one who tried to bring it to WP:BPLN. I am the one who initiated discussion on talk. And I am the one who suggested that the issue be resolved via WP:RfC. I haven't broken any restrictions on the article and I've justified all of my edits.

Let's be honest here. At the moment, Debbie Wasserman Schultz is not exactly a popular person. And because of that some people take pleasure in her recent political troubles. Which is fine, we're all allowed to feel some schadenfreude regarding politicians we don't like. But we are NOT allowed to inject these feelings into Misplaced Pages articles, especially when they concern living persons. The BLP policy is there EXACTLY for these kinds of situations. Living people who are popular don't really need BLP protection. It's the unpopular ones (yes, even Putin, even DWS) whose article need to be closely watched so that their articles don't turn into attack pages.

I still think the issue on DWS needs to be resolved via a WP:RfC or at WP:BLPN but I haven't had time to actually make edits to that article for a while.

As to the other articles related to "American Politics", like Donald Trump or whatever - I'm going to suggest that you ask User:MelanieN, an administrator who has been active in the topic area and has done a great job keeping articles related to the election encyclopedic and neutral, about my conduct. If she says that my editing in the topic area has been problematic in some way, I will happily reconsider my self-evaluation and take whatever steps are necessary to correct my behavior. But I don't see a reason why I, or anyone else for that matter, should take the attacks by a bunch of users here to pursue a grudge (ED, Athenean) seriously.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:10, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by My very best wishes

The complaint suppose to be about my alleged and recent misbehavior in two subject areas, but I do not see it.

1. My most recent significant edit in EE area was two weeks ago, it was discussed and agreed about on article talk page. None of my recent edits in this area caused serious complaints or disputes. It seems that I actually have good collaborative relationships with many contributors in this area.
2. US politics. As a note of order, I did not receive a formal warning about discretionary sanctions in this area. Five days ago I made two reverts on page Debbie Wasserman Schultz. The edit was explained on article talk page . This discussion (five days ago) helped me to realize that US politics is a highly disputed area. Since then I did not make a single revert on these pages and only took part in discussions.

No, I was never involved in any inappropriate activities with VM. I do not have any contacts off-wiki with any WP participants for many years; I never edited on anyone's behalf, and I never asked anyone to edit on my behalf.

Yes, I sometimes checked edits by VM, just as edits by many other contributors. This is not forbidden by policy. But I never followed someone's edits only to blindly revert or support them. I agreed or disagreed about something with others and discussed. Obviously, I had a lot less objections to editing by VM, who is smart, well-intended and a highly experienced contributor, than to editing by POV-pushing SPAs. Agreeing or disagreeing with someone is not a violation of policy. To the contrary, this is a productive collaboration.

Here is long list of alleged misdeeds created by ED. This is a misrepresentation by ED. He simply calls all legitimate edits "edit-war", even such as reverting edits by sockpuppets . Other edits were also legitimate and reflect WP:Consensus and discussions on article talk pages. Actually, this is very common when a number of long-term contributors make similar edits on the same pages (yes, there were many other contributors on these pages, not only VM and myself, who were making the same changes). Why all of them are making more or less similar edits? That's because they are trying to reflect what reliable sources tell, and the sources tell something very definite on the subject. And how do I know about Polandball and other "obscure" subjects? Because they are not obscure to me.

@Coffee and Wordsmith. This my edit was made almost six months ago, and this is not a BLP violation. Neither this is a suggestion to violate policy. This is just a joke on a user talk page. Yes, I believe that BLP rules must be respected.

P.S. This request is unusual. What normally happens? There should be a serious content disagreement about something. Yes, we had a content disagreement with EtienneDolet and Athenean about page Vladimir Putin, but it was almost six months ago! Why they are binging this back citing an essay as a reason for sanctions? I do not edit page about Putin for a long time, precisely because of the previous complaints by the same users. I do not see any real problems with my editing right now. There were only minor content disagreements on a couple of pages related to US politics a week ago, but I did not edit them since then; I was not engaged in prolonged edit warring anywhere, etc. Athenean brings this diff as an evidence against me dated February. What's the problem? I simply quoted an RS and asked: do you know other similar sources? But instead of simply responding to my question when it was asked (no one responded), he brings this here and now. And yes, I am interested in the current US elections (they are highly unusual), just as in all other subjects I edited. My very best wishes (talk) 02:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lord Roem. Yes, this is excellent question: "Is this editor causing disruption and POV-pushing on the page?" - based on recent evidence. OK. Here are all my edits in main space during last five weeks. Only five of them have an overlap with editing by VM. Yes, many of these edits are reverts. However, some of them did not cause anyone's objections; others were discussed on article talk pages, which resulted in successful resolution of the disagreements by keeping either my or someone else version. Was that disruptive? Note that I edited very different subjects, which is hardly compatible with pushing any specific position. I tried to improve WP. My very best wishes (talk) 04:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

Sorry about the rollback. Finger slipped on phone. Corrected my mistake. Again my apologies. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi

Just to point out that surely WP:EE does not offer the sanction (or, indeed, any sanction!) requested...? 21:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by The Wordsmith

I edit in the American Politics area, so I'm recused from commenting as an uninvolved administrator. However as an editor, those diffs are troubling. Particularly the one where MVBW indicates that we should willingly break WP:BLP because he thinks that a world leader is unworthy of having a compliant article, just because he doesn't like Putin. After that one, I don't think MVBW is capable of editing in compliance with policy. My suggestion would be for a 'topic ban for MVBW for Eastern Europe and post-1932 American Politics, and a 0RR restriction for Volunteer Marek for American Politics. The Wordsmith 21:19, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Shock Brigade Harvester Boris

It's no secret that Marek and MVBW have similar views and thus makes edits from a similar perspective -- just as EtienneDolet has similar views as another group of editors and makes edits similar to their perspective. Are both of these groups tag teams? I don't think so.

The whole idea of "tag teams" is problematic enough that a highly respected editor and two-term Arbcom member nominated Misplaced Pages:Tag team for deletion. She is more articulate and concise than a science geek like me, so I'm going to quote her: "Many editors have identified that the 'characteristics' of tag teams can easily be applied to editors who share a common practice of editing in accordance with policy and thus make similar edits." In the real world there are people who have similar views on certain topics and thus tend to make similar edits (and yes, revert similar material). That's true whether the topic is Vladimir Putin or global warming or anything else on Misplaced Pages that parallels a real-world dispute.

I'm a little more concerned about the BLP implications of MVBW's Putin comment. However, it is worth reading that entire thread in context. I'm also somewhat concerned with EtienneDolet's repeated attempts to get VolunteerMarek sanctioned for something (whatever seems to fit at the moment). But that's just par for the course in this topic area, unfortunately. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Athenean

Regarding the so-called "rejected" RFAR EtienneDolet filed earlier this year, the Arbs response, which can be seen here , was not to reject the case on merit, but that since Eastern Europe is covered by discretionary sanctions, there was no point in opening a new case, and ruled to simply refer the case to WP:AE, exactly what EtienneDolet is doing now. Marek's claims that the case was rejected on its lack of merit is incorrect patently false and an attempt to mislead. Furthermore, EtienneDolet's full evidence list was never shown at the RFAR. The Arbs never saw it, so it was never rejected. Yet another totally false claim by Marek.

Regarding MVBW's claim that his intent to sabotage the Putin article was a "joke" (the lamest excuse in the book), the POV disruption he has caused at that article is no "joke" at all (e.g. edit-warring to keep well-sourced material out , many more examples). Here for example Mvbw seems to be taking the "Putler" stuff quite seriously and seems to suggest it should be included in the article (testing the waters). No, no joke. He stated his intent to push POV, and followed through on it.

As to Marek's protestations that he has "done nothing wrong" at American politics articles, he has in fact been engaging in some pretty serious and protracted edit warring in this topic area (Debbie Wasserman Schultz: , 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak: , Clinton Foundation: , and possibly others). I have seen people get 0RR and worse for less.

MVBW and Marek have been double-teaming since 2014. First their collaboration was restricted to Eastern Europe articles, the original area of common interest. Then Marek became involved in Syrian Civil War articles. And sure enough, MVBW followed him there. Now it's American politics articles. When called on it, they dial it down. When they think the coast is clear, they resume. And it works. While the users that get blocked tend to be socks and/or SPAs, experienced users typically give up to avoid getting blocked. Call it what you want, tag-teaming, collusion, meatpuppetry, it's a form of gaming the system and a mockery of the spirit of wikipedia. Athenean (talk) 05:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lizzius: There is of course nothing wrong with editing overlapping articles and checking each others contribs, that's one thing. But performing identical reverts during an edit-war is quite another. That's what we're talking about here. Athenean (talk) 18:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lord Roem (talk · contribs): What's recent is the double-team edit warring at American Politics articles. Let's look at Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the most egregious example: In a 40 hour period between July 30th and August 1st, Marek racks up 4 non-consecutive reverts: One , Two (these 3 are consecutive), Three , and Four . At this point, further reverts by Marek are risky. This is a fraught topic area and he has already edit-warred enough to possibly get blocked, even without breaching 3RR (Marek keeps involving BLP but this is debatable - the material is well-sourced). Then, less than 3 hours since Marek's most recent revert, MVBW appears out of nowhere and reverts to Marek's version twice . MVBW has never edited the article or its talkpage before, in fact his participation in US politics articles is minimal. Very fishy. I find it extremely unlikely that MVBW just happened to have the article watchlisted prior to this or just came to it by chance. And it's the same extraordinary coincidence at Donald Trump and Clinton Foundation. While the rest of the evidence may be somewhat dated, it is necessary because it points to a pattern: This same exact double-teaming has been going on since 2014, repeated across 40 articles. At first EE articles, but then it spread to other articles. Are we to believe that it's just due to common interests and overlapping watchlists? Human rights in Venezuela ? John Maynard Keynes ? Philip M. Breedlove ? Where does it end? After March 2016, when EtienneDolet filed the RFAR, they dialed it down because they knew people were on to them. Now with Marek getting embroiled in some serious edit-wars in US politics, and several months since the RFAR, they're at it again. The mechanism of how they do so, whether off-wiki or just MVBW folliwing Marek's contribs, is entirely irrelevant. Keep in mind these users are not just editing together, they are edit-warring together. Edit-warring is disruptive, double team edit warring doubly so. Often times the material they remove is garbage and their edits justified, but often times it's not (as in the examples I give above), and they are clearly pushing POV. Often times it's against socks and SPAs, but often times it's against users in good standing. That said, I do agree with you that MVBW appears to be the more guilty party here (Marek's edit warring at US politics article is a separate matter, though no less significant). This problem can easily be solved with an interaction ban (even a one-sided one, since it appears it is MVBW who is the more guilty party), or simply a prohibition on MVBW making the same reverts as Marek (and this can even be amended to make exceptions for vandalism, reverting socks, BLP, Copyvio, etc.., basically wherever WP:3RRNO applies). But from experience, I can guarantee you 100% that unless some such measure is enacted, this kind of behavior will continue through the US election season and beyond. Athenean (talk) 05:04, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lord Roem (talk · contribs) As far as I can tell, there is a lot of back and forth between Marek (and after his reverts, MVBW) and several other users over whether the material belongs. No firm consensus, but the majority of users seem to think that some of this material (especially the booing off the stage) belongs in the article. Certainly no consensus to keep the material out. Athenean (talk) 05:57, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Lizzius

Having reviewed the diffs provided in evidence, and the ones provided in the statements of many users here, there is no meat in this case (Athenean, your numerous linked diffs showing a "protracted edit war" cover weeks of edits to multiple articles and to my eyes absolutely no evidence of repeated content removal or what I believe WP policy would define as edit warring).

The "compelling" evidence here shows nothing more than an overlap in editing interests. No more or less severe than many editors (and admins) across this site with similar watchlists/interests/access to the news. Unless there is hard evidence of collusion between these two (apart from the fact that they both inhabit Earth, probably have access to Western media and thus tend to follow a similar sense of Zeitgeist when it comes to their individual interests, and happen to have a political ideology that departs from the sense of the filing editor) this should be chalked up to nothing more than partisan bickering. Throw on top of that the history with the filing party here (and a curious opinion from an "involved" administrator, followed by another administrator who could seemingly be cast into the same collusion bucket if the definition is allowed to be cast so broadly), and you have one curious set of circumstances here that absolutely shouldn't result in any sort of sanction against MVBW or VM.

Further reply to Athenean, the diff you highlighted as further evidence that this is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg is indeed listed in ED's evidence page. It also seems the Arbitrators' opinion on dismissing the case were mixed, with some expressing they felt the case essentially reduced to overlapping interests. It isn't fair to consider VM's characterization of their opinion purposefully malicious, anymore than yours might also be considered so. Also (and this was first linked by another editor in the filing you referenced), if you run an interaction analyzer on you and ED it is comparable () to the analysis performed on MVBW and VM. Surely this could compel you to see how easy it is for editors with similar interests and world views to end up editing very similar articles? Have you found any truly compelling evidence that would demonstrate actual, coordinated collusion? Lizzius (talk) 13:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by Roxy the dog

It's called a Watchlist. -Roxy the dog™ bark 14:15, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by OID

I would like to echo Boris here, ED has been trying to get VM sanctioned for something for quite awhile now. Given this has already been brought up and rejected by Arbcom, and there is no additional considerations here, some form of forum-shopping warning needs to be given. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Statement by D.Creish

I encountered Volunteer Marek and MVBW on Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. My interaction with MVBW was limited to his reverts and some talk page comments (more on that later) - most of my interaction was with VM. I see a pattern of disingenuousness from VM, stretching the truth or outright misstating things to help his argument. I'll give examples:

• In this enforcement request he initially claims EtienneDolet was "told by the ArbCom (!) to drop it" (it being these accusations.) When it's pointed out in fact he was told AE was the appropriate venue (rather than the case request he'd filed), VM removes the accusation replacing the text with the message "(text removed to shorten)" when really text was removed because it was untrue. If it hadn't been caught by another editor it would have remained and helped his case.

• On Debbie Wasserman-Schultz he accuses editor Activist of canvassing:

I just noticed that User:Activist in this message on their talk page pinged several users to alert them about the presence of the disagreement above This is a textbook example of improper WP:CANVASSing, followed by tag-team reverts. This sabotages the process of consensus, leading to false notion of consensus.

I point out that the pinged editors were all active participants in the discussion prior to the ping so while it may be TAGTEAM or some other discouraged practice it doesn't seem like canvassing.

He never follows up on the canvassing accusation (I assume because it's meritless) but continues to use it as a bludgeon to dismiss any consensus involving the pinged editors: "These editors are exactly the ones you canvassed on your talk page to help you in your edit war", "As to consensus, as has already been pointed out several times, several of the participants here were explicitly WP:CANVASSed here to edit war for this stuff" and reverting consensus edits with edit summaries claiming the false canvassing accusation as justification:

My interaction with MVBW was more limited. He was involved in a discussion about whether to include Wasserman-Schultz being booed off stage at the DNC in her article. The incident was covered in all major sources and led to to her not gaveling-in the convention (a first in DNC history.) A well-known political reporter described it as "one of the most painful moments I have ever witnessed." Seems pretty significant right? VM didn't think so and one he reached three reverts neither did MVBW.

MVBW's talk page comments were generic, they could have been cut and pasted (changing the subject) from almost any BLP dispute: . He dismisses the incident as a "minor detail". When I attempt to understand his reasoning, asking if it's the boo-ing or the gaveling he considers minor I get no response.

These incidents were (I believe) my first and only interaction with these editors. D.Creish (talk) 06:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Result concerning Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• The evidence I've looked through so far is damning. I hope Volunteer Marek and My very best wishes can explain why they've clearly tag-teamed articles during edit wars for years, and why they continue to do so to this day. I'd also be very interested to hear why My very best wishes thinks that Vladimir Putin, the leader of the second most powerful nation on the globe, is exempted from the BLP policy. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@Volunteer Marek: and @My very best wishes: Please mind the word limit of 500 words per statement and trim down or hat longer sections as appropriate. Seraphimblade 21:15, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

• I'll go over EtienneDolet's more extensive evidence page, but so far I'm not seeing anything that would merit a sanction. There's no evidence of direct collusion to evade 1RR and--absent that--I'm not seeing a specific disruptive act that would merit a topic ban. Usually we have conduct issues in how an editor interacts with others on a topic (sometimes an outgrowth of POV-pushing) or intensive edit warring. What's happened in the last several months since ArbCom rejected the case? As for this Putin BLP thing, in context it appears to be more of a joke or sarcastic than literally "Putin doesn't fall under the BLP policy," which would clearly be ridiculous. I'd advise Volunteer Marek to calm down and substantially reduce his response per this page's rules; otherwise, I'm not inclined to impose a sanction at this time. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:10, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
  • I think I should elaborate on my concern with the request here. It seems to rely on the assumption that MVBW follows Marek around with the intent to get around revert restrictions. Absent some evidence that Marek is telling MVBW to do this, I don't know why it's Marek's fault that another editor is following them around. I totally understand the basis of concern behind tag-teaming: it's a way for editors to push a position across pages by working together and never breaking the letter of the rules. On the other hand, how does one establish that two editors are working together? I think it's clear MVBW has some bizarre editing behavior that--yes, does--appear to indicate very similar watchlists. How is that, in and of itself, a sanctionable offense? If the AC establishes some standard to evaluate tag-teaming, then I'd be more comfortable enforcing this request. Otherwise, our go to is the simple question "Is this editor causing disruption and POV-pushing on the page?" I may need to look over some of the recent evidence, but my initial analysis is that there's nothing particularly disruptive in the edits being done. Is there anything recent, like in the last month, that would justify a sanction? Frankly, a lot of what's presented seems stale. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:11, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Marek, could you hat some of your material and also respond to the Debbie Wasserman Schultz edits? Apart from the tag-teaming stuff, I'm sure you can see why so many reverts on that page of controversial material could be concerning. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:12, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Also, @Athenean: could you, or another editor, give some context on what the talk page discussion was like regarding these reverts? It seems a lot of the material being removed was critical coverage of Schultz. What was the consensus at the time, if any? Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:15, 9 August 2016 (UTC)