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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by D.Creish (talk | contribs) at 04:12, 23 August 2016 (→Murder of Seth Rich). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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This noticeboard is for discussing the application of the biographies of living people (BLP) policy to article content. Please seek to resolve issues on the article talk page first, and only post here if that discussion requires additional input.

Do not copy and paste defamatory material here; instead, link to a diff showing the problem.

Additional notes:

• Edits by the subject of an article may be welcome in some cases.
• For general content disputes regarding biographical articles, try Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies instead.
• Editors are encouraged to assist editors regarding the reports below. Administrators may impose contentious topic restrictions to enforce policies.

• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Allowing page movers to enable two-factor authentication
• Rewriting the guideline Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

Gian_kumar

Gian Kumar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hi, the friend of mine works for them, and He asked me to create these pages, am not being paid for these. He has written 3 books also and now even they have notification for speedy deletion, let me know the valid, trusted sources, I can provide them. Thanks.

Thanks for your contributions but for the page to keep, additional reliable sources need to be added to verify the page's content. Meatsgains (talk) 03:01, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Looks like the page has been deleted. Meatsgains (talk) 04:56, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Danny Jacob

Danny's name is wrong on a part of the page that doesn't appear to be editable by the mortal man (I'm his friend - he asked for my help)

https://en.wikipedia.org/Danny_Jacob - he is called Daniel David "Danny" Jacob (born October 8, 1956). We are not sure where the "David" came from - it's not even his middle name.

Can that be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:628C:E300:D019:8C7A:4011:C724 (talk) 16:45, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Unless you can provide a reliable source supporting this claim, it will not be added. Meatsgains (talk) 02:53, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I removed it (not because I read this - I was responding to an OTRS email.)--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:41, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

shakeel

The picture in this article is not his picture. Someone placed Bushra Ansari picture instead. Please allow this to be changed. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mddr4321 (talk • contribs) 05:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Good find. Thanks for brining this to our attention. I've removed the image but couldn't find an image to replace it. I'll leave that to another editor. Meatsgains (talk) 05:07, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Olga Korbut

The material on Olga Korbut is taken directly from her website without attribution. - viz the section about her legacy: On her website (olgakorbut.com): Olga is a highly decorated athlete with four Olympic gold medals to her credit, but it is not this feat for which she is most remembered. The media whirl which surrounded her 1972 Olympic debut caused a surge of young girls to join their local gymnastic clubs, and a sport which had seldom been noticed previously now made headlines.

On wikipedia: Korbut is a highly decorated athlete with four Olympic gold medals to her credit, but it is not this feat for which she is most remembered. The media whirl which surrounded her 1972 Olympic debut caused a surge of young girls to join their local gymnastic clubs, and a sport which had seldom been noticed previously now made headlines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.65.161 (talk) 11:24, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I reworded that part. I didn't look to see what else might be a copyright violation. Does anyone else know how to use one of those tools that scans the whole article for copyvio? —PermStrump(talk) 21:49, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

It is common for websites to copy from Misplaced Pages. Did someone prove the copying was BY Misplaced Pages and not just FROM Misplaced Pages? The Internet Archive might shed some light. Edison (talk) 20:21, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

The text quoted above shows up first on her website, apparently, 20 July 2012 as shown by the Internet Archive. The Misplaced Pages version of 14 Jan 2006 contained "Korbut was of course a highly decorated athlete, with four Olympic golds to her credit. But it is not her results for which she is most remembered. The media whirl that surrounded her after her Olympic debut in 1972 caused a surge of young girls to join their local gymnastic clubs. A sport which had previously seldom been noticed now made headlines. " If there are other seeming copyvios, please also check them to see who copied whom. This text was created and added to Misplaced Pages by User:Miss zara, who edited numerous gymnastics articles from 2006 through 2007. Other sits can copy from Misplaced Pages, but they should credit us for what they copied. Edison (talk) 20:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Murder of Seth Rich

Editors views are solicited on the talk page thread captioned Deletion of Rewards. SPECIFICO talk 20:08, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

The main issue is whether it's a BLP violation for this article to mention that WikiLeaks has offered a $25,000 reward for information about this murder.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:42, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

I have looked at the talk page in question and even made a few comments. I see absolutely no BLP issues with mentioning that WikiLeaks has offered a $25,000 reward for information about the murder. Some sources have speculated as to why WikiLeaks would do such a thing, and any such speculation should be handled with care because some of the speculation is a clear BLP violation, but there is zero justification for keeping the well-sourced and notable fact that WikiLeaks has offered a $25,000 reward for information about this murder out of the article. Clearly, it is not a BLP violation. "BLP" is not a magic word that allows one to censor material that someone (in this case the family) may object to. Then again, it is far from clear that the family objects to any mention that WikiLeaks has offered a $25,000 reward for information about the murder. Rather, they appear to have a problem with the associated speculation (as do I). --Guy Macon (talk) 19:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I wish some more editors would get involved here. It appears that the article is being pared back to nothing. The AfD was unsuccessful, but we seem to be headed to the same end result. Does this article even fall under BLP, given that there was no suicide nor gruesomeness?Anythingyouwant (talk) 07:43, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I definitely see BLP issues and have clearly pointed them out with my talk page addition . ---Steve Quinn (talk) 08:04, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

What you "pointed out" (I really hate that phrase; it pretends opinions are facts) was an argument that any speculation about whether Seth Rich was or was not a WikiLeaks source is a BLP violation. Not a single person on the page disagrees with that. What you completely failed to "point out" was why you think that stating that WikiLeaks offered reward money without any speculation about whether Seth Rich was or was not a WikiLeaks source is a BLP violation. This is the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard, where most if not all participants are quite familiar with what is and is not a BLP violation. Would you be so kind as to attempt to make your case here? Please explain why you think that simply stating that WikiLeaks offered reward money is a BLP violation. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:18, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to copy a question I posted on the talk page. It's a thought experiment which I believe clarifies the issue by removing the political flavor and other associations. Guy and others, I'd be interested in your take on this:

Here’s a thought experiment: Recall that Sony Pictures’ computers were hacked by the Guardians of Peace “GOP” around the time that the film “The Interview” was released. The film mocked and vilified the leadership of North Korea.

Suppose that your son was the executive chef of the Sony Pictures commissary. Shortly after the Sony hack, your son is brutally murdered in the middle of the night walking on the streets of Los Angeles. The GOP announces a reward for information leading to the conviction of the killer.

As his parent you decry this phony insinuation and you state that to the press. The reward story gets temporary blip in media coverage and then fades to nothing. Do you think WP should report it in an article about your son’s murder? Do you think there’s any reason for an article about your son’s murder in the first place?

SPECIFICO talk 00:28, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

In the Murder of Seth Rich article, we have the following sources in the references section...

• "WikiLeaks offers $20,000 reward for help finding Omaha native Seth Rich's killer" --Omaha World-Herald
• "WikiLeaks offers $20,000 reward over murder of Democrat staffer Seth Rich" --The Daily Telegraph
• "WikiLeaks offers reward for help finding DNC staffer's killer" -- Washington Post

...but no mention of WikiLeaks offering a reward in the article. If WikiLeaks offering a $20,000 reward is a BLP violation in the body of the article, why isn't it a BLP violation in the references section? --Guy Macon (talk) 00:28, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Guy, those refs appear to be left over from article text that was removed. Could you comment on the North Korea/Sony Pictures scenario above? SPECIFICO talk 02:23, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Several editors have asked in what way could simply mentioning "WikiLeaks offered a $20,000 reward for information leading to a conviction" violate BLP. No one has offered a succinct, rational explanation. Specifico, would you care to? D.Creish (talk) 04:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Can an AfD result be overturned by contested assertions of triviality?

Quite aside from WikiLeaks, editors at this article talk page are now claiming (1) the idea that Rich was sober when he left the place he was last seen is a BLP violation, (2) anything allegedly trivial about Rich is a BLP violation, and (3) WP:BLP applies to this article even though this was not a suicide and there's nothing gruesome in the article. Please note that an AfD resulted in no consensus, and so the article was kept; what's happening now is that the article is being gradually deleted on the mistaken premise that everything in it can be deleted if there is no consensus to keep it.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:30, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

A "Keep" close at AfD isn't an endorsement of specific content within that article. See WP:ONUS. This slippery slope argument is unfounded. Geogene (talk) 00:47, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Supporters of deletion during the AfD said that the article is trivial. No consensus during the AfD resulted in keep. Now people who supported deleting the article are saying that anything they regard as trivial can be removed unless there's consensus to keep it, which will seemingly result in deletion of the article by attrition. It is a slippery slope indeed.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:59, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

anything they regard as trivial can be removed unless there's consensus to keep it. Yes. Exactly. Geogene (talk) 01:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Geogene, wouldn't that mean that any AfD that closes with "keep because no consensus to delete", can be followed by de facto deletion because no consensus supports keeping anything in the article?Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:11, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I routinely remove sourced content that isn't backed by consensus, if I feel I have a valid reason for doing so. I'm not concerned about any larger philosophical implications of that. Geogene (talk) 01:29, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Do you agree that editors should not remove content merely because of no consensus? There has to be some plausible policy-based rationale beyond "no consensus", right? WP:Preserve disfavors complete removal of undisputedly well-sourced material.Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:44, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

The question is irrelevant because it misrepresents the motivations of the other editors, who have voiced policy based concerns about that content. Geogene (talk) 02:01, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I really don't like it when people casually throw around the word "misrepresents" given that the word is synonymous with lying. I was asking you a general question without reference to specific editors. If you would agree with the general principle, then we could have a civil discussion about whether the general principle is being respected at the article in question. I'm not going to continue this with my honesty being questioned.Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Anjem Choudary

Can we please have some administrator oversight on Anjem Choudary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) please.

User Govindaharihari in particular has made a couple of edit summaries regarding Anjem which are violations of BLP, even if the edits themselves introduced no specific claims, which need clearing up (Diff 1 and Diff 2). Actual conviction relates to "inviting support" which is intrinsically different to actually supporting another individual. Thanks Koncorde (talk) 21:12, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Shaunae Miller

Since this athlete won the Olympic 400 meters race - falling across the finish line - there's been a huge amount of unreliable/twitterati speculation that she dived deliberately, and she's received massive amounts of abuse that she "stole the medal" from US golden-girl Allyson Felix.

Although it's true that many news articles used the word 'dive', they make it perfectly clear that they don't claim it was a deliberate act.

The Misplaced Pages article has been repeatedly changed to say that it was - including six times by SirBartleMerryworth - including lying in the edit summary, calling it a "typo" - despite others asking him to stop during those edits . 86.20.193.222 (talk) 18:06, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

The article has been fully protected since yesterday. —C.Fred (talk) 18:40, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I know. And I am aware of the idea of "wrong version" being protected, and that it can be fixed at a later date. However, in this case, the wrong version makes an unfair accusation about a living person, without appropriate references. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 02:25, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Roy Moore, Kim Davis (county clerk), Troy Newman (activist)

Persistent vandalism of same-sex marriage related articles including Roy Moore, Kim Davis (county clerk) and Troy Newman (activist) all originating from User_talk:2602:301:771A:DDAF:5055:3F2E:DCC9:84E7. Request block of vandalism only account User_talk:2602:301:771A:DDAF:5055:3F2E:DCC9:84E7. 166.70.217.188 (talk) 19:41, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Blocked. --S Philbrick(Talk) 00:37, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

User_talk:107.77.192.10 is also being used as a vandalism only account, same targets -- same sex marriage related Bios. 166.70.217.188 (talk) 19:31, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Jeremiah Godby - AfD

Jeremiah Godby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Please weigh in on the AfD: "Subject appears to be a non-notable runner who promotes "natural medicine" by running across the country. There are a few mentions in small, local newspapers from 2011. The current article has a very promotional tone that is derived mostly from self-published sources close to the subject. At best, notability is due to one event." Delta13C (talk) 09:44, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

CRAIG TARO GOLD

The Craig Taro Gold entry is simply a self-promotional commercial violating Misplaced Pages's three core content policies: 1) NPOV 2) NPOV)V and 3) NOR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.7.87.194 (talk) 15:53, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Niraj Antani

Hey all, this article needs some help, esp. from those who edit politicians' articles frequently. I think there's too much "administrative" fluff in there, but that's just me. What I know is that there has been serious vandalism, a BLP problem or two, and likely POV editing possibly from both sides. I may have to semi-protect it if it continues; I handed out two indefinite blocks already, I think. Anyway, your help is appreciated, both in turning it into a better article and in keeping an eye on out. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:46, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I've watchlisted the page and will keep my eyes open for an vandalism. Meatsgains (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Paul Fix (racing driver)

ZoeyHolley keeps deleting updates made to this page that are accurate about Mr. Fix from a recent Trans Am race. In order to show the full history of Mr. Fix's career, such updates are important.

. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.129.204.110 (talk) 18:05, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

The reason your edit is being reverted is because you have not provided a reliable source for support. Meatsgains (talk) 18:13, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

References

1. https://vimeo.com/178902235

David Schmidley

The Misplaced Pages article says "The Oklahoma State University Faculty Senate called for Schmidly's resignation" 1. OSU has a Faculty Council, not Senate 2. The Source (USA Today)says something to the effect faculty leaders called for resignation, not that the Council (or Senate)so voted. The Faculty Council never voted to ask for Schmidly's resignation, nor did it censure or vote lack of confidence. 3. During that period I was Vice Chair and then Chair of the Faculty Council. For various reasons I made sure there were no such votes. Basically, I wanted to avoid the trap the New Mexico faculty got into. In NM it turned into faculty v. The People. That is what would have happened in Oklahoma. At OSU our strategy was the high road. CHEERS! Bob Darcy Regents Professor Emeritus, Political Science and Statistics, OSU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:B8B7:F9C0:1CB7:C82:4ABF:5BAA (talk) 22:07, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Chimezie Ndubuisi

My Chimezie Ndubuisi Uduma from Ebonyi State Nigeria, I am the son of Ndubuisi, the son of Uduma Udu of Ebunwanna Edda, in ebonyi state Nigeria... I was born on the 14th of April 1993. I obtained my first school leaving certificate at Orinta Primary School,in Afikpo South in Ebonyi State, Nigeria, I also schooled at Etiti Edda Technical Secondary School, also in Afikpo South in Ebonyi State, Nigeria.... I was single handedly raise by Mr. & Mrs. Agwu Eseni From Ndi-ba Edda, in Etiti Edda Autonomous Community in Afikpo South, also in Ebonyi State Nigeria. The first son of Mr. & Mrs. Ndubuisi Uduma — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meziend (talk • contribs) 23:04, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

@Meziend: What were you hoping to accomplish by posting on WP:BLPN? Thanks Meatsgains (talk) 01:20, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

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