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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Maunus (talk | contribs) at 16:15, 29 September 2006 (→Toltecs). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

• hi nice article. note you can set up an info box which all different dialects or languages on wiki have. see Swahili language. It can be copied and then adapted. James Janderson 12:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Hello, are you still there, Magnuspharao?

The Nahuatl page could use your help. See my note on the talk page. Thanks! Lavintzin 17:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for your insightful comments on the Talk:Nahuatl page. Madman 23:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Mesoamerican Linguistic Area

Hi magnus, thanks for the notification re this new article you've created, it looks to be a fine start indeed. I've responded to your query re how to go about adding it to the scope of WikiProject Mesoamerica at the article's talk page.

ps. If you are interested, you'd be most welcome to look around WikiProject Mesoamerica's project pages, and/or sign up and help us out in improving articles in this subject area. We could certainly use someone with your linguistic expertise. Happy to answer any questions you may have, either at the Project discussion board or at my talk page.

pps. I noted your recent comment at another talk page that you would like to change your user name. This can be done, if you wish- see WP:CHU for details on how to go about it. Regards, --cjllw | TALK 03:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Etymology of Culhuacan

Hi Maunus (and welcome to WP:MESO, by the way!). In doing some background research into the Valley of Mexico site Culhuacan (or Colhuacan), there seem to be a couple of competing etymologies for its name. One source glosses the meaning as something like "place of those with ancestors", while others (such as the Relación geográfica of Culhuacan) give it to mean "bent hill/mountain" or "twisted ridge". In consulting some online Nahuatl dictionaries I'm struggling to see how either of these apply, although presumably -hua'can is indeed something like "place of where owners of are". Does col- have some associated meaning such as "ancestor", or "bent, twisted", or...? Or (as seems to be implied) are these homophones, since the glyph used to denote Culhuacan in aztec codices is indeed shaped like a 'bent' hill.

Appreciate any insights you may have on the matter.--cjllw | TALK 03:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmations, Maunus- precisely what I was looking for - much appreciated! Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 23:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Otomi language

Hi Maunus- when I look at this page I don't see anything particularly amiss, just needs a bit more copyediting and perhaps a little rewrite in places so that the tone is not so technical. Perhaps it is a problem with your web browser? You could try clearing your browser's cache and reload the page, see if that improves matters. If not, what are the symptoms you are seeing- misaligned text, tables out of whack, or...?--cjllw | TALK 07:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the La Mojarra Stela 1 photos!!!

Being a creature of the American Midwest, I have no direct access to these artifacts and monuments that I write about. Therefore, it was a real treat to see the photos you've added to La Mojarra Stela 1.

Do you have the right side photo in higher resolution or larger??

No problems I am happy to contribute them. And yes I do have better versions. I have another photo taken in a straight angle too, but the signs are a little harder to see on that one because of the light. I'd be happy to supply you with them

It sounds like you've chosen the best photos, if you could upload a higher resolution right side photo it would give better detail.

Since you were in the Museo de Antropologica in Xalapa, do you have any photos of the twins &/or jaguars found at El Azuzul -- also known as Loma del Zapote -- (as seen in the middle of this page), or of Altar 5, or even of more colossal heads?? That would just be wonderful. Madman 14:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. I was only really interested in the stela and I didn't get good photos of other stuff. My wife is in all the pictures of colossal heads (not that she's not pretty but I don't think it suits wikipedian needs). I will probably put up some photos of Chalcatzingo and Xochicalco though.--Maunus 14:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, you have some nice photos there!! I've already added the "jaguarbaby" to the Jaguars in Mesoamerican culture article. If you don't mind, I would also like to take a few excerpts of the frontal shot of La Mojarra Stela 1 and use them in the Epi-Olmec script and possibly the Maya calendar article. The glyphs are so clear in the shot, I think it may be better than the oblique photo on La Mojarra Stela 1. In any case, good work, and thanks. I've been starving for good images. Madman 21:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

>>I will probably put up some photos of Chalcatzingo and Xochicalco though<< I've been doing some work over at Chalcatzingo and was wondering whether you had any photos of the site &/or the monuments? Curiously yours, Madman 18:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I havent had a chance to acces them yet. Ill post you a message when I do.Maunus 18:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I will patiently wait. Thanks! Madman 19:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's discuss orthography changes

Maunus, let's discuss any wholesale changes to spelling (orthography) beforehand. In particular, the name of the Aztec capital is "Tenochtitlan", which is not only the name of the article in English, but Spanish as well. I have never seen "Tenochtitlān" used by anyone - I will occasionally find "Tenochtitlán" but none of the established sources (e.g. Michael Coe) use that.

I did open a discussion on orthography on the Nahuatl talk page some time ago, but without resolution.

Thanks, Madman 17:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Some recent changes made at Otomi language

Hi Maunus, would you be able to review some recent changes made at this article- they seem plausible but I'm not familiar with this area. For some background on the contributor, see also User talk:CJLL_Wright#Olmec and here as well. Regards, --cjllw | TALK 05:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Accented chars

Hi Maunus. Do you know of any Mesoamerican languages which make use of accented characters in their native orthographies (in particular, as a marker for stress, and discounting of course how they might be marked in a written spanish context)? I've presumed there aren't any, but I could easily be mistaken. Cheers,--cjllw | TALK 13:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

A lot of Totonac orthographies use acute accent as a marker fort stress, as do some northern uto-aztecan languages. Others such as otomi and Mazahua orthographies use accents for tone. Some varieties of nahuatl that have phonemic stress also use them for stress, and even in classical nahuatl accent grave is used to mark stess in the vocative form of the verb which is the only form that doesn't have stress on the penultimate syllable. So yes, many languages do.Maunus 16:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

My Bot

It was just going through Category:Ancient Egypt and sub cat's which is where my bot got the list. Category:Ancient Egypt --> Category:Ancient Egyptian language --> Category:Hieroglyphs --> Mesoamerican writing systems is why my bot tagged it. Betacommand 16:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Re : Matthew Stirling

Thank you for the assessment and the corrections. I was wondering if you (or anyone else, actually) has a copyright-free image of Stirling that I could put on the page. Sdsouza 22:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Olmec

Hi, I ask an arbitration about French School. Can you give me your opinion. Thanks again. Olmeque 17:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Maunus, I am having some difficulty with Olmeque over at the Olmec article. He insists on using just his wording and only his wording regarding this so-called "French School". I have tried in several ways to blend his points into the article, but he wants his section in his exact words.

I would appreciate your input there, if you have the time. Thanks, Madman 15:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Check out "Did you know . . . "

On 30 August, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Itza, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Mgm| 10:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Question at Talk:Maquahuitl

Maunus, being one of the resident Nahuatl experts, could you pass judgement on the question of spelling Maquahuitl/Macuahuitl over at Talk:Maquahuitl? Any insight would be appreciated. Madman 01:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Tarascan state

On 1 September, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Tarascan state, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

• Wonderfully well written and referenced. Enjoyed reading it very much. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 08:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

DYK P'urhépecha language

On 1 September, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article P'urhépecha language, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Srikeit 18:21, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, Maunus. You are well on your way to becoming a Did You Know addict!  : )

And I do have to say, with amazement and affection, that only a linguist could write (or understand!) something like this:

Did you know ...that the P'urhépecha language isolate of Mexico is one of only two Mesoamerican languages not to have a phonemic glottal stop and that it has more than 160 affixes, 13 tenses and 6 modes?

Keep up the good work!! Madman 19:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks :) . It may have been a little dense but it was all wikilinked: if you follow the links to all those linguistic terms you may end up becoming a linguist yourself! Maunus 20:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Edit summary

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Starting a Pipil language page

Following our recent discussion, I am thinking about writing the Pipil/Nawat language page we talked about. I don't know if you can give me any (technical) tips about how to get going. I have looked around in the help pages of course, but there are still some doubts in my mind, as this is my first time.

One idea that I am considering is to start by copying another language article (perhaps one of yours), renaming it and using it as a sort of informal template. I could do that and then if I came up with more specific difficulties I could come back to you (or someone else, if you prefer) to see if you can help me out.

Since we have, for now, apparently agreed to disagree on the point of the name of the language, I suggest the following compromise, and I'd like to know whether you agree to it. Initially I will name the page 'Pipil language'. At the beginning of the article I would like to refer, briefly and objectively, to the fact that there is some disagreement about how the language should be referred to, and then state that in the rest of the article the language will often be referred to as Nawat. Within that context there should not be any ambiguity regarding what language we are talking about. It will be undersood that nothing (including the name of the page) is to be considered the 'last word' on this matter; I would just like to get the issue (temporarily at least) out of the way so as to get on with the 'real' work of developing a good article on the language. Does that sound okay to you?

As for the contents of the article, as I said before, my strongest area is the description of the language system itself, i.e. sounds, grammar, etc. Other questions I can also touch on are: present state of the language and its speakers, and official status (or rather non-status!); relationship (i.e. lack of, genetically) to other indigenous languages of El Salvador, with cross-references of course; language recovery initiatives; writing and alternative spelling systems; typological observations; lexicon; sample vocabulary items; existing written and audio corpus; some sample texts and recordings; sources and references.

I have deliberately omitted some aspects here, because I would prefer someone else to help out, both to involve more than one editor but also to lighten my work load if possible. Naturally any or all of the aforementioned areas are open to other contributions, but I particularly think that sections on the language's history, genetic affiliation, language status (is it a dialect of Nahuatl or a language in its own right?) etc. could perhaps be done by someone else.

Then there is another matter of concern to me. One is not allowed to cite one's own work, or refer to an organisation to which one belongs. But there are references to both my work and organisations to which I belong that would help to make the information in the article more complete. From what I have gathered, a possible solution here is for another editor to supply such information. So if this works the way I think it does, perhaps I could first give you the relevant references or materials to look at, and if, as co-editor of the page, you (genuinely) consider that their mention is worthwhile and justified, you could insert such references. I don't want you to interpret this as in any way pressuring you to 'find them worthwhile and justified' or to put them in, I would leave that up to your judgment entirely. I'm just looking for a way to give the reading public the best and fullest information we can. Is this the right way to go about this, or if not what do you suggest? --A R King 09:03, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

It sounds very good indeeed. I think you are more than wellprepared for making the page, and remember that we will all be there to check up on it, conform it to standards and discuss what is to be discussed. I will gladly look at your references and judge how they should be applied in the page, I think what you suggest is indeed the fairest and best way to get around the Original Research claim. I think that with all the deliberation you are putting into this that it will turn out a very good article. Maunus 23:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Lila Downs and Paul Cohen

Hi Maunus, do you have a source regarding their marriage? We need to cite this to put it in the article. -MrFizyx 16:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose I consider that common knowledge snce he is always referred to as her husband. Try conducting a search for "Lila Downs Paul Cohen" on google, in interviews, reviews and descriptions he is always reffered to as such. If you speak spanish the spanish sites are even more consistent in calling him her "esposo". Do we really need to see their marriage certifiact to believe it? Maunus 16:26, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

No need for a marriage certificate. I actually have searched for this before and everything I've read was pretty ambiguous. If you could please, just cite one of the articles you've mentioned next to your statement. The article can be in English or Spanish. -MrFizyx 16:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I took care of it. You were right, it was trivial to find! -MrFizyx 17:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Chochotec

Hey, I noticed that you did some work on the Chochotec article. I appreciate that -- I started it, but I really didn't know much about it. I also started Coatlán Zapotec language, and you may want to look at that as well. It's just a start. I was trying to create basic articles for languages which had interesting linguistic features, but I ran into a wall on finding information on them. CRGreathouse (t | c) 13:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I've expanded the Chocho article a bit. The only info I had was quoted from an article about another interesting language: Amuzgo. Maunus 14:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

It looks great. Nice work! CRGreathouse (t | c) 14:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Mixezoquemap

HI, How did yu make the Mixe-Zoque map? I'd like to make some maps, esp. of Austronesian languages... Thanks!--68.72.44.62 12:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I made it in Photoshop using one of the blank maps that can be found through the Misplaced Pages:Blank maps page as a base and painting the different languages in different colours. Maunus 12:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:50pesos.jpeg)

Thanks for uploading Image:50pesos.jpeg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image is unlicensed for use on Misplaced Pages and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 14:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I was going to use it for an article, but found a better one. Please go ahead and delete it.Maunus 07:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Toltecs

Hi there. I've been following bits of the recent debate about the disputed existence of a distinct Toltec culture. The issue comes as news to me since it goes against I've been told at school. Thus I was wondering whether you had some academic sources at hand so I could go on reading about it, instead of asking random questions in talk pages. I would prefer journal articles, but books could do as well. Thanks! -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 15:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The articles supplied by Dr. Silverstein on the Talk: Toltec pagee are good to begin with. Otherwise read books like David Carrasco's "Quetzalcoatl and the Irony of Empire" or "Mesoamerican Religion". Also Introductions to Mesoamerican studies written after 1990 usually mentions that sources to "Toltec history" are more of religious/mythical origin than historical/archeological. For example the correlation betwee "Tula, Hidalgo" and the mythical Tollan of the Aztecs and Maya etc. is based solely on guesswork, nobody knows what culture built Tula (I think they were probably Huastecs). As for Quetzal coatl as a "Toltec king" it is increedible that nobody seems to wonder how he got time to start so many civilizations and lineages after being expelled from Tula, almost every Mesoamerican people claims descendence from Quetzalcoatl or a similarly named (Kukulkan, Gucumatz etc.) persona. I will look for other journal articles on the subject. Maunus 15:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)