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Food and drink: Beverages B‑class Top‑importance

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The contents of the Rimming sugar page were merged into Cocktail. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

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This article was selected as the article for improvement on 15 October 2018 for a period of one week.

old fashion

Do you know if the original reciepe of the Old Fashion? Is it with soda? Seltzer was introduced nationally in 1883 so probably not considering the old fashion predates this. But what do I know, i'm not even valuable enough to contribute without being reverted.

The Old-Fashioned was a name which arose in the second half of the 19th century when the variety of cocktails began to expand and it became useful to distinguish the most traditional presentation of a cocktail (spirit, a small amount of sugar or simple syrup, and a dash of bitters, perhaps garnished with a twist of citrus peel) from its newer relations, many of which incorporated additional ingredients. The addition of seltzer may have come about through bartenders making this classically small (~2 ounce) drink in too large a glass, and wishing to "lengthen" it so as not to appear to be cheating the customer on quantity.MetaGrrrl (talk) 07:16, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

cocktail - old fashion: the true origin of the cocktail and old fashion, explains in great detail about these drinks, including ingredients. If I remember correctly, it's Laird's apple brandy, curacao, maraschino liqueur, brown sugar, water, angostura bitters. You are correct in calling it an old fashion and not old fashioned, fashion was the name of the horse the Laird family rode in the 1850s when the drink was created. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:7704:2D30:B8ED:78CB:2A4D:D4FF (talk) 15:39, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

I call shenanigans. - Doctorx0079 (talk) 00:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

You obviously didn't read the book. He's right. This entire page needs to be edited.199.80.74.66 (talk) 13:50, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

So be bold and go ahead and do it. And then I will correct you. But I'm pretty sure David Wondrich knows his stuff. Definitive resources on this topic include Imbibe! and The Old Fashioned. Or just look at what Wondrich posts on The Daily Beast. -- Doctorx0079 (talk) 18:54, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

The same wondrich that suggested that the cocktail comes from sticking ginger in the asses if horses? Seriously.... Really?

You are him! He doesnt know shit and is the laughing stock among the industry. How old are you now wondrich? 70? Youll be dead soon and who will protect your fake references then? Ill be here long long after your gone and ill be out of law school by then too. I assure you if i dont do anything else in life I will male sure all your false information is removed.

Im also reporting you as ypuve already told me your going to revert my edit, even before youve seen it, showing obvious bias. You may be a mod, but you wont be moderating any cocktail pages seeing as your obviously biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:c6e1:bdc1:a87f:c0e0:e4d:cac (talk) 11:49, 30 September 2018

Definition of cocktail

The current definition in the article—"any beverage that contains three or more ingredients if at least two of them contain alcohol"—is highly problematic as it excludes many drinks widely understood to be cocktails, for example the Piña Colada to name one off the top of my head. I recommend this be changed to that from Oxford Dictionaries—"An alcoholic drink consisting of a spirit or several spirits mixed with other ingredients, such as fruit juice, lemonade, or cream"—or something similar.

It'd be good to add"bitters" into that list of other common ingredients to honor the earliest definitions—spirit, sugar, bitters—distinguishing 'cocktails' from other drink types (e.g. fizzes, smashes, etc.) in the days before the term expanded as an umbrella encompassing all mixed drinks with alcoholic ingredients.

This is hardly the only problem in this page, but it'd be a good start to fix it. (And perhaps here I am making a note to my future, less-busy self.) MetaGrrrl (talk) 03:10, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

The article already mentions this as one possible etymology. How would you change this? SQGibbon (talk) 21:44, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't doubt the use of the word "cocktail" when referring to horse races (the OED makes this clear). That there is a connection between cocktailed horses and the drink seems entirely reasonable to me and that theory is already present in the article. Why you think "Laird's Applejack Cookbook" from 2002 is the only reliable source on the topic is a bit puzzling. What do you base that on? Plenty of other reliable sources have not reached the same conclusion.

We are not here to determine the truth. We are only here to report what reliable sources state. There is no consensus from experts on the etymology of the word with respect to drinks. If you believe your source is reliable (and I don't see why you do) and that its etymology is sufficiently different from the others then by all means go ahead and add it to the article.

And for what it's worth, I don't think Wondrich's theory is likely to be correct at all but he is a reliable source and that's why we include it.

And please, calm down. I did not ask my question looking for a fight. I personally don't care one whit what the outcome to this is. All I care about is making sure we follow Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines and that one person doesn't push their opinions all over Misplaced Pages. SQGibbon (talk) 20:57, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

For those of you who are confused by the above discussion, as I was, there were more comments but they have been removed by their author. They are in the page history if you are curious. Kendall-K1 (talk) 16:34, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Someone else made this change, and I have fixed it to be a complete sentence with a proper ref. Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:30, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

True History

You might be wondering what exactly a cocktail is. To get a good understanding of where the cocktail originated, you'll have to forget everything you think you know about these drinks. The origin of the word cocktail was even a mystery 150 years ago as seen in these early 19th century documents. (Early 19th century etymology of the word cocktail) (Another early 19th century etymology of “cocktail”) Popular Theories  One very popular theory involves a cock's feather and a tincture which was applied to the back of the throat to cure throat ailments.  Others accredited it to the American mispronunciation of the French doubled sided egg cup, which has been bastardized into "cocktail".  Jared Brown's Telegraph article states 'This sudden abundance of hard alcohol found its way into the pharmacies. The second medical patent, issued in 1712, was for Stoughton's Elixir, an alcohol-based medicinal bitters. And that it has its roots in England."  After "cocktail" horses, docked tailed racing thoroughbreds.  April 17, 2012 3:55 PM MST in an Examiner article titled ”cocktail” I state Verbatim “It is very likely this drink was named after the half bred racing horses named "cocktails". Not only were horses the primary mode of travel at the time, but several drinks are named after horses as well. Such as we see with the “Horse's neck” and “Old-fashioned” which was named after the famous racing mare “Fashion””

Composition Containing no less than Apple brandy, orange bitters, (water, sugar, or similar syrup). Swizzles were made with molasses, which was still a very popular syrup. Although the creators the Cocktail almost certainly would have had white sugar. Many today, would associate a cocktail with any spirit, bitters, sugar, water. Given punches, cups, and many other primary & secondary generations of drinks had long been in place, it would make bitters a defining difference from the others. Thus, bitters is what makes a cocktail a cocktail. Is this true? Not exactly. If you look into late 18th century literature surrounding drinks, you'll find an awful lot of medical journals. Many of which specifically mention bitters in many of their elixirs. Prior to the mid-18th century bartenders, were more pharmacist than bartender. The julep, toddy, crusta (to cure crusta) and many others were prescribed rather than served to you to cure various illnesses. We know for certain bitters had long been in place and not any old bitters either, specifically orange bitters. It dates to at least 1747. This is important because these early tinctures, containing bitters, sugar, and alcohol were the composition of a modern defined cocktail. Technically, though. Even very early 16th century German medical books like Doctor keiserspergs pater noster: Des hochgelerte würdige by johannes Geiler von Kaysersberg, Johannes Adelphus in 1515 "Tinktur von Brandywine bitter, Rinde des Holzes , Anissamen , Saft von Grog ." Which literally translates to: Doctor keiserspergs pater noster : Des hochgelerte worthy by Johannes Geiler von Kaysersberg , Johannes Adelphus in 1515 tincture of brandywine bitter, bark of the wood, anise seed, sap of toddy. This is a very early example composition of the modern definition of a cocktail, but certainly is not a cocktail. Cocktails are of an explicitly united states location of origin. What would have most bars had in stock? We know from early literature that in between 1771 - 1786 most well stocked bar rooms would have had at least Brandy, Rum, Gin, maraschino, Curacao, Absinthe, Bitters (orange) (angostura by 1824) and maybe a few French cordials, vermouths, those sorts of things. All early recipes, including the inaccurate dating of the cocktail recipe insist it contained, spirit (which was brandy), sugar, bitters, water. Well, the only bitters in circulation within the timeframe is orange bitters and sugar could have been white, brown, or even molasses, depending upon where you were. We now have a very accurate composition "brandy, orange bitters, water, refined white sugar (white gold) would have only been in the most affluent taverns. Most thought it was created in 1806, but we now know it dates far earlier and we are able to accurately determine the age of the cocktail within the year, (Cocktail horses) So what are cocktails? Cocktail horses can be found in racing magazines as early as 1771 in English literature. There is even cocktail mentioned in The Hibernian Magazine, Or, Compendium of Entertaining Knowledge in 1786 page 124. A cocktail is a thoroughbred horse breed best known for its use in horse racing. Thoroughbred are known for their agility, speed, and spirit. According to Racing Expert and Author William Robertson, "The Thoroughbred developed in late 17th century England. All modern Thoroughbreds can trace their pedigrees to three stallions originally imported into England in the 17th century; they were imported into North America in the 18th century” The timeframe for the cocktail is at least 1786 and on. Cocktail horses appear as early as 1771. With alcoholic bitters appearing in medical journals as early as 1500s, we can determine that bitters is not what makes a cocktail a cocktail. Using this information you can accurately determine the cocktail being created and named in and or around the year 1771 – 1786 and that trims it down to 15 years, now given the Diomed & Medley weren’t even imported here until 1784 and Applejack production had just began, we can accurately date the cocktail to 2 years. Not bad for a 230 year old drink that has been a mystery for at least 150 of those years. . Many drinks of that era got their names from horses I. Like the Stinger, Which is an improvement on the plow. II. The Horse's Neck, Which was a term used for a photo finish. III. Old Fashioned which is a clear derivative of Fashion the racing mare. IV. Cocktail named after cocktail racing horses Which we will discuss later. Now what differentiates the cocktail from some of the older drinks is that the cocktail belongs to a generation of drinks that were named entirely differently and circulated completely differently. Many of the 17th and even 16th century drinks are very worldwide and recipes are dubious at best, but they are still recipes. The cocktail was named, when the old style of naming drinks was slowly fading. Like the Grog being age old and being responsible for the term "groggy” Ancient drinks like brandy milk punch dating to atleast 1522, it is almost impossible to accurately date, given the amount of literature that surrounds this drink from its creation until today and the amount of literature not surrounding it prior to the 16th century. It would seem that somewhere in between 1771 and 1786 cocktails were being served in apothecaries, taverns, and pubs, which would give much credit to cock's feather story. However, the popularity of cocktail racing horses and two in particular horses (Diomed and Medley) at this time far outweighed any tincture that could have been created. According to Allan Carter, Historian at the National Museum of Racing “Cocktails were the premier and most popular horses on the turf and horseracing was America’s favorite pastime” You might be thinking, cocktails are thoroughbred racing horses, but that doesn't mean they are associated with the beverage. Even Encyclopedia Britannica: Cicero-Diameter - Volume 5 - Page 170 in 1797 list a cocktail as a racing horse, not a beverage. So what connects the dots? We are certain there were apothercaries, bitters, sugar, and alcohol in at least 1515. We should all know though, these compositions may likely date far earlier. This doesn't mean much in the grand scale of the origin of the cocktail, however, it gives us a glimpse of how early the composition of the modern definition of a cocktail really dates to. It's really old. Now if were talking about a cocktail, it's an American 1784 - 1786 thing. As shown in previous pages the cocktail name and composition fall together within this 2 year gap. In 1780 Robert Laird began distilling and selling apple brandy holding license #1 on the grounds of the Colt's Neck Inn and Tavern. What could have happened so big to spawn the cocktail? Cocktails were popular in England, but were they popular enough to spawn an entire category of drinks here in the U.S.? Colt’s Neck Distillery – Laird & Co. The Colt's Neck Inn and Tavern served as a stud farm for cocktail horses in the late 18th and early 19th century, (hence why Joe Laird is a trainer and jockey), Pictured above, the railing on the side of the building is for securing your horse, some of America’s most famous cocktails were studs here. According to Historian Bob Lemen Hitching rails were rare, reata’s didn't have a loop and were a rope (sometimes 35 feet long) which was tied to a horse's head. When a rider while he entered a building, he held the end of the reata, which extended out the door to the horse. Two of the most famous cocktail studs here were, Diomed and Medley (Great-grand sire to Fashion). (Diomed pictured above) Diomed, foaled in 1777, won the Epsom Derby in 1780. He was subsequently a successful sire in the United States. Medley and his companion stallions arrived in 1784 in Virginia on Captain McNabb's good ship "Theodorick." Medley's came with half a dozen other stallions purchased as an investment to be resold upon their arrival in America, Medley's best patron was John Tayloe III, frequent customer of the Colt's Neck Inn. A highly successful plantation and famed Mount Airy stud owner, and many others. Considered the "Wealthiest man of his day". His father passed in 1779 leaving him extremely wealthy. (Another portrait of Diomed) They were part of the steady flow of English stallions that had begun immediately following the 1783 repeal of the Non-Importation Act of 1771, which had forbade stallions from being imported into Virginia during that time of political strife. Shortly thereafter in 1784 the Colt's Neck Tavern was mixing up cocktails in celebration of their newly arrived champion thoroughbred cocktails and the cocktail was born. John F. Wall, a racing historian, said that "In those days, stallions did not stand in one place, but moved from stud farm to stud farm" Marmaduke Johnson, owner of the famous Medley mare, and raced by his son, Col. William Johnson, Reality (Fashion’s Grand Dam). Robert Laird Owner of the Laird’s Applejack Brandy studded Medley (Cocktail) at The Colt's Neck Inn and Tavern, which he was also the proprietor of. Colonel John Hoomes bought him for $250, and then shipped him to Virginia where he was returned to stud. Hoomes also maintained his own racing stable and sizeable stud service in with his good friend, another influential horseman of the time, John Tayloe III. Into the second generation, Sir Archy’s influence became even more pronounced. This was partly because inbreeding to Sir Archy and to his sire, Diomed, became quite fashionable among American breeders. In Sir Archy's case, he was bred back to his daughters and his sire’s daughters. After the American Revolution, the center of Thoroughbred breeding and racing in the United States moved west and was America’s leading national sport, William R. Johnson, known as the “Napoleon of the Turf,” he won 61 of the 63 races his Thoroughbreds entered during the racing seasons of 1807-1808. He built and presided over the largest and most prominent racing stable in the country during the first half of the 19th century. Bonnets O blue (Fashion’s Dam) Now in the hands of Johnson’s trainer, Arthur Taylor, Sir Archy became one of the greatest runners of his day, excelling in four-mile heats and a standing bet of $10,000 that Sir Archy could beat any horse in America and there were no takers. His most notable offspring were Reality foaled in 1813 and Sir Charles foaled in 1816 Brand Promotion Now it's a little more than coincidence this happens to fall in between those dates and just like the drinks of today the "cocktail" possibly was printed on the bottle or at the very least served at the tavern. Is it so hard to believe? As you find in my earlier literature that pre-modern and modern cocktails are created by spirit companies themselves, this has been going on a while, apparently. I. Bacardi Cocktail - Bacardi in 1898 II. Bay breeze - Smirnoff in 1983 III. Buttery Nipple - DeKuyper in 1992 IV. Cape Codder - Smirnoff in 1945 V. Cheesecake Shooter - Stoli in 2000 VI. Corpse Reviver - Chartreuse in 1859 VII. Dirty Mother - Kahlua in 1965 VIII. Godfather - Disarono in 1971 IX. Grasshopper - Hiram Walker 1951 X. Harvey Wallbanger - Galliano in 1964 XI. Hot Buttered Rum _ Myer's in 1940 XII. Incredible Hulk - Hpnotic in 1991 XIII. Jack Rose - Applejack in 1909 XIV. Jamaican Ten Speed - Midori in 1980 XV. Japanese Slipper - Midori in 1985 XVI. Kioki Coffee - Kahlua in 1971 XVII. Kir Royale - Chambord in 1979 XVIII. Lemon Drop Martini - Absolute Vodka in 1989 XIX. Martini - Martini and Sola, and Co. in 1853 XX. Mary Pickford - Bacardi in 1917 XXI. Mudslide - Kahlua in 1979 XXII. Naked Pretzel - Midori in 1997 XXIII. Nuts & Berries - Frangelico in 1993 XXIV. Oatmeal Raisin Cookie - DeKuyper in 1992 XXV. Rusty Nail - Drambuie in 1958 XXVI. Screwdriver - Smirnoff in 1936 XXVII. Seabreeze - Seagram's in 1963 XXVIII. Separator - Kahlua in 1979 XXIX. Sex with an alligator - Dekuyper in 2001 XXX. Sicilian Kiss - Southern Comfort in 1982 XXXI. Silk Panties - National Distillers in 1986 XXXII. Slippery Nipple - Sambuca in 1983 XXXIII. Slow comfortable screw -southern comfort in 1982 XXXIV. Tennessee Tea - Jack Daniels in 1987 XXXV. Tokyo Iced Tea - Midori in 1981 XXXVI. Tootsie Roll - Kahlua in 1976 XXXVII. Velvet Hammer - Cointreau in 1963 XXXVIII. Vodka Martini - Smirnoff in 1938 XXXIX. White Russian - Kahlua in 1954 XL. Windjammer - Crown Royal in 1989

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