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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Thatcher (talk | contribs) at 03:17, 15 November 2006 (reliable sources, no personal knowledge or original research). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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possible copyvio

A lot of the text seems to be taken directly from the band's history page on their website. I think that the page can be edited so as to be okay, but I checked out the instructions at Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems which say that you should blank the page and put up a copyvio notice...? Not sure what to do here - I'm going to wait a day or so and see if anyone has any ideas. Cantara 19:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

What's your concern? The guy who does the web work for LAM wrote that article which was used with permission. The text was ok'd by the band to be presented here on Misplaced Pages.

Okay then. I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps mention of this should be made somewhere on the page, e.g. some text courtesy of LAM, can also be found . Also, would you mind signing your messages? It's a little annoying to have to look at the history to see who left me a note. Thanks! Cantara 20:32, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

not exactly npov

what are adjectives like "funny" and "touching" doing in what's supposed to be an encyclopedic article? this reads like a fan's praise rather than a fact-based, informative article. -supine 07:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I edited out the biased stuff. - 67.40.171.141 (talk · contribs)

It really reads like a Press Realease. - 200.122.45.7 (talk · contribs)

That is because it was taken from a press release, I've improved the article now, however. - Deathrocker 21:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Deathrocker- I suggest that you actually inform yourself about LAM before continually editing the page. The info you provide isn't accurate. Please leave the page alone. - 24.205.68.235 (talk · contribs)

I suggest you view other band articles on here to see how they are set out, this is not an overblow fan article or a promo slot. It is meant to be an encyclopediac article on a musical band.

"None" is not a viable genre. The discography on the version you keep pushing is a mess, the language is awfully POV reading more like a hagiography and it mentions little to nothing of their history. If you feel something is inacurate, then correct it cite a source. - Deathrocker 21:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Deathrocker, just a few quick notes; LAM was a very political project from the beginning. Your posting of "fan frustration" is speculative and misleading. LAM is a solo project (Brennan). It was formed by Brennan. LAM was not formed with Tamlyn as you stated. The fact that you are unaware of this is evidence that you shouldn't be contributing to this page. Live members come and go and are not involved in the creative process. Hardly relevant except for noting live concerts, but you can list the various live members if you feel the need - but yo need to specify that they were live members only. Also, why focus on one bass player (Areklett) who was kicked out of the live band? Do you know anything about Covet and Areklett? If you did I think you probably would not be pushing him. You read the "Covet" page and took that as fact, but it's not fact. No "Covet" songs were ever meant for LAM. Areklett was removed from the live lineup of LAM for some serious reasons. Why you feel the need to push him here is kind of strange, with a paragraph on his defunct side project (which by the way he took thousands of dollars to produce and never released "frustrating" people who he'd promised the CD to). Its clear you have very superficial knowledge of LAM with the various edits and misinformation you keep posting, so I suggest a little research or just bowing out to work on other pages, as seems to be your passion. The discography was originally posted by someone else. I just cleaned it up and corrected it, you should have seen it before, it was a bigger mess. It could be deleted but you wanted history and that is a history of releases that contain LAM music. Also, LAM doesn't apply genre labels to itself, hence the "none" genre. If you wanted to list all the genres other people apply to LAM the list would be longer than the discography, and irrelevant.

1. where are examples of the band being political from the begining? none of their lyrics (up until 1998), contain examples of "animal rights, pro-environmental and human rights issues, anti-corporate control of media, and progressive, and liberal politics." stances that the band are now said to follow.

2. there are sources which state that the band was formed by Brennan and Tamlyn in 1990, the fact that he has being there from the begining and is still there more than a decade and a half later shows that it isn't just a "solo project" of Brennan's.

3. then provide a source proving otherwise. i'd tend to believe that something stated on an official page of somebody who was actually in the band (for a long time) would be a reliable source. if other members of the band have gone on to feature in different projects, then they can be mentioned too. Areklett's current band is relevent in the context of the article, regardless of anything else.

4. all bands have genres whether they like it or not "non" and then listing four or five after it, is contradictionary. not something for a encyclopedia. - Deathrocker 22:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Deathrocker, 1. One of the first LAM songs released was a song called Revenge. Quite political. Not to mention everything that's been played in concert since 1997-98. Also, LAM has long been known to pass out literature related to animal rights and various progressive issues at the concerts, through mail and now online, has done concerts that benefited animals rights organizations, had voter registration at concerts, etc. This started as far back as the first concert. However it was never asserted that these issues figured into all of LAM's lyrics (some, however). You have taken a hostile approach to the bio and claimed politics have not figured into LAM's music, which is false, and is misleading being that a key aspect of LAM is the politics and progressive social causes - and has been from the very beginning.

2. The only reliable source for info on LAM is the LAM website. AllMusicGuide, etc, are all wrong and refuse to correct the misinformation. Trust me, I know Brennan has tried. Tamlyn was NOT there since the beginning of LAM and contributes nothing to the band musically speaking. How could LAM have formed "with Tamlyn" when LAM was formed prior to Tamlyn and Brennan meeting? See, again, you are not informed enough about LAM to be editing this page.

3. Areklett's current band is nonexistent. He has no band and last I heard no plans to release any music. He lives in his girlfriends mother's house about 4 hours outside of Los Angeles after losing his job years ago and is about to have a child. He is hardly in a position to be doing music. Areklett is well known for being less than honest. He started a big campaign in 2004 after he was replaced saying Covet music was meant for LAM but Brennan didn't want to use it or something (feigning frustration), but this was only to get attention for Covet, which he hoped to release at some point. No Covet songs were ever meant for LAM. In fact Brennan didn't even know of Covet's existence until Areklett tried to hijack Brennan's live band out from under him, which eventually led to Areklett being replaced in the live lineup. Why trust this guy who was kicked out of LAM and is well known for being a bullsh*tter, but not LAM itself? Try reading the LAM Online community or the LAM website where all this was discussed in-depth. Again if you don't do your research then stop pretending to be qualified to edit this page. Seriously. My sources are what has been written by Brennan and live members of LAM on the LAM online community, my own experience with the band (which is vast), and online by Areklette himself (all of which contradict Areklett's myspace page which you are citing as a definitive source). http://p098.ezboard.com/blondonaftermidnight

4. Your opinion. "None" is a viable genre when the artist says his genre is "none".

By the way if you're going to be editing pages please check your spelling as well as your facts. Last I checked "implomenting", among others, wasn't a word.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Blipblip (talk • contribs)

Friendly warning

Caution The editors of this article, particularly Blipblip and Deathrocker, are headed down the wrong road. You have been blocked for violating the 3 revert rule. Reverting each others changes is not and acceptable method of editing. With reference to the article content,

• This is an encyclopedia, not a fan site. We will generally list a band's releases but not every compilation album that has one of their tracks on it.
• Everything must be verifiable through a reliable source. my own experience with the band is not a reliable source and adding information based on personal special knowledge violates the No original research rule. None of the things you have been arguing about have reliable sources--animal rights, the genre, none of it. Blipblip's claim that Allmusic is wrong is a serious problem. You may not make claims based on your own knowledge. You can only report what other reliable sources have written about the band.
• Regarding claims to the band members web sites as sources, let me quote two sections from the reliable source policy:

A self-published source is a published source that has not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking, or where no one stands between the writer and the act of publication. It includes personal websites, and books published by vanity presses. Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

Self-published sources, whether published online or as a book or pamphlet, may be used as sources of information about in articles about the writers/publishers of those sources, so long as there is no reasonable doubt who wrote them, and where the material is:

• relevant to the self-publisher's notability;
• not contentious;
• not unduly self-serving or self-aggrandizing;
• about the subject only and not about third parties or events not directly related to the subject;

Now, I am not even interested in trying to sort out a he said/he said argument over who was in the band, who tried to steal whose band, etc. Web sites owned by the band and band members may be cited as sources if the information is not contentious and not unduly self-serving. So, simple stuff like what genre he calls himself and what his own lyrics mean to him are probably OK; stuff about controversies in the band can not be sourced to personal web sites because they will by definition be self-serving and contentious. If you can not find third-party reliable sources that talk about the band you may not be able to talk about these things at all. These sources do not have to be on line, but they should be readily verifiable to someone with a decent library, and cited properly. (for example, "Album review, Rolling Stone magazine, June 1992, page 36) If you want to make progress here you will look at some other articles, carefully read the reliable soure and verifiability policies, and maybe ask for help at the rock music wikiproject. Good luck. Thatcher131 03:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

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