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User talk:Sandstein

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 02:21, 19 May 2019 (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to User talk:Sandstein/Archives/2019/May) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 02:21, 19 May 2019 by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to User talk:Sandstein/Archives/2019/May) (bot)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

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LumaNatic, again

Just noticed User:LumaNatic/Freedom_colonies. I presume that userspace isn't immune from topic bans... Black Kite (talk) 18:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

What was that ban again? Sandstein 18:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
..."anything to do with race, racism, racial history and politics, slavery, or white supremacy, all very broadly construed". . Black Kite (talk) 19:02, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Right, but why aren't you taking action yourself? Sandstein 19:43, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, missed that you'd replied. Wasn't 100% sure about userspace edits. Since I suspect the user is as well, I'll drop them a final warning. Black Kite (talk) 23:00, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Questions

Two questions:

That depends on whether these topics or edits relate to the Arab-Israeli conflict. I don't know that. Sandstein 20:46, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Well, you can read User:Huldra/Al-'Uthmaniyya; that is an article I was almost finished with (should have some Mamluk and early Ottoman era expansion). As for the Lebanese articles, they would have no information after the Ottoman time, they would be articles like Kafr Dunin, Khirbet Selm, or Kfar Sir, Huldra (talk) 20:59, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't have the time to parse every sentence for whether it might have some modern-day conflict relevance, sorry. You'll have to determine that for yourself. Sandstein 21:55, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Who else can I ask? Huldra (talk) 22:01, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Huldra, you should be fine. El_C 22:05, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
User:El C: thank you, Huldra (talk) 22:12, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Kelly Meighen

This is a clear no consensus. Your delete of the article is puzzling and disappointing. From the afd more editors disagree with your opinion and interpretation. I will likely make a futile appeal. The actions of administrators are basically beyond reproach which is why they should be careful to do the right thing. Ignoring No- WP:CONSENSUS does not seem like the right thing. I certainly wasted time improving the article and participating in an afd that an administrator can ignore. Lubbad85 (☎) 00:31, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Deletion review for Kelly Meighen

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Kelly Meighen. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Lubbad85 (☎) 01:53, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Umm

In cases like this, I believe that it's best to ping all the admins (who have proposed some form of sanction or the other) about whether they want to take any actions and then, pending the lack of any reply within a day or so, close it as stale. ∯WBG 11:55, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

I know that others sometimes do this, especially when a matter seems contentious, but it's not my usual practice. If an admin had wanted to take action, they could long have done so. Sandstein 11:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

GizzyCatBella TBAN

  1. You've previously TBANed User talk:GizzyCatBella#Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction - "Your are topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from the World War II history of Poland. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes any acts of violence by, in or against Poland, or by or against Poles or Polish Jews, during or immediately prior to or after World War II, as well as persons known for their involvement in the World War II history of Poland.". We've previously interacted on this matter - User talk:Sandstein/Archives/2019/February#GizzyCatBella. You've also warned GizzyCatBella - User talk:GizzyCatBella#Marek Jan Chodakiewicz‎ that they should not edit historians who specialize in Polish WWII history.
  2. I was therefore surprised when GizzyCatBella performed the following revert: 04:50, 18 May 2019 - the text starting with "In 2012, Radzilowski published an essay titled The Neo-Stalinist Discourse in Polish Historical Studies in the United States in Golden Harvest or Hearts of Gold? Studies on the Wartime Fate of Poles and Jews (they have also subsequently edited the page extensively and the talk page). Besides the edit itself being related to WWII Polish/Jewish history (the essay is in a book on the topic and advances the argument that US social sciences in general and history on Poland specifically are "neo-Stalinist" and biased against Poland in context of WWII history). As evident from Radzilowski's CV - he has written quite a bit on Polish WWII history - e.g. his latest book - Frantic 7: The American Effort to Aid the Warsaw Uprising and the Origins of the Cold War, 1944 Hardcover, “Remembrance and Recovery: The Museum of the Warsaw Rising and the Memory of World War II in Post-Communist Poland,” The Public Historian 31, no. 4 (2009), 143–58., and “Yaffa Eliach’s Big Book of Holocaust Revisionism,” Journal of Genocide Studies 1, no. 2 (1999): 273–80..
  3. I will note that GizzyCatBella should've been aware of the nature of Golden Harvest or Hearts of Gold? as after they reverted me over here (which I do not think violated their TBAN, despite the reference) - they claimed - diff - they could not discuss this since I mentioned "Holocaust in Poland" in describing the reference this was taken from (as well as providing other references).
  4. After the incident today, I also looked at GizzyCatBella's other recent contribution, and would note the following:
    1. Adolf Warski - diff (and a bunch of others) - Polish communist with Jewish roots - executed in the 1937 great purge.
    2. Karl Radek - diff (and a bunch of others) - Communist with Jewish roots, active in the Polish communist movement. Also caught up in the great purges, and died in March 1939 in a Soviet Gulag.
    3. Thaddeus Radzilowski - diff - Polish-American historian. The article contains - "Piast also takes a lead role in protecting Polish culture from defamation and ensuring healthy dialogue between groups of all cultures. In 2006, it promoted serious discussion of the book FEAR: Anti-Semitism in Poland After Auschwitz by soiologist Jan T. Gross, sponsoring an online international scholarly symposium (www.AnalysisofFEAR.org) on the highly debated charges made by the author. Piast was also a strong voice speaking against the common mischaracterization of Nazi concentration camps built on Polish soil as "Polish Death Camps," aiding in an effort that culminated with the United Nations renaming the "Auschwitz-Birkenau Concentration Camp" to the "Former Nazi German Concentration Camp Auschwitz-Birkenau.".
    4. Friedrich Jeckeln - diff - Jeckeln is notorious for many things, many outside of Poland. However in the Polish context - during Barbarossa he was command of HSSPF Russia-South (which included Western Ukraine - or former (pre-1939) Eastern Poland) - was a perpetrator of the Holocaust by bullets (also in eastern pre-war Poland as well as deeper in Ukraine (e.g. Babi Yar)). Afterwards in command in the Baltics, which included some area that was former Poland - Reichskommissariat Ostland he commanded included NE Poland. Then he was in the Western front, but in early 1945 he was assigned command of V SS Mountain Corps (dewiki better) in the eastern front (In feb 1945 they fell back in Vistula–Oder Offensive - in Western Poland, in April Battle of the Seelow Heights - on the eastern edge of modern Germany - (communist) Poland is listed as a belligerent in the battle in our article - due to First Polish Army (1944–1945) taking part in the battle).
    5. Israel Singer - diff - though this is not obvious from our present article, Singer has been involved in the Holocaust in Poland from a few angles, including property restitution (seized during the Holocaust) - e.g. 1996, or 2007 trip to Warsaw appealing return of property.

For your consideration. Also notifying: @GizzyCatBella:. Icewhiz (talk) 07:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Response and Topic Ban appeal

Sandstein, Please take your time and review every article presented here as a violation of TP, there is nothing about WW2 history of Poland within the articles. As you presumably know, I was extremely cautious not to breach the TP imposed last year with one or two fully accidental slips in the past that has been dealt with and I regretted for. The only edit that has likely merit now and was presented above is the article about Thaddeus Radzilowski. I changed a very small detail BUT soon self reverted after noticing 2 lines about the Holocaust in Poland later. I added also the following note "Self reverting due to the possible TP breach. Please note the particular necessary adjustment (deceased person)" For nearly a year now, while Topic Banned from WW2 articles related to Poland, I have successfully contributed to numerous articles in other topic areas, including DYK articles I created Last year on June 25th, you TP me for what I learned was incompetence and stubbornness with the following summary: "..I invite GizzyCatBella to appeal it in six months showing evidence of substantial, competent, prejudice-free editing in other topic areas. Assuming good faith, i.e. that this is more of a case of stubbornness and incompetence rather than a deliberate attempt to insert anti-semitic propaganda, I am not blocking GizzyCatBella at this time" I wasn't rushing with my appeal due to stress that is affiliated with editing highly controversial areas such as WW2 history of Poland but also because I wanted to prove that I have learned from my mistakes and I'm able to edit utterly conflict-free in other topic areas. However now due to unfair accusations of Topic Ban violations, I would like to have my topic ban lifted. I sincerely believe that I'm ready and have learned enough from the TP imposed to resume my full opportunities to participate in this project, editing Misplaced Pages productively and without conflicts. I consider my edit records to prove and address concerns if any, that disruption is unlikely to happen again. If my topic ban is lifted, I will use the best reliable sources available as that was also one of your concerns. If this appeal is granted it will be very appreciated.GizzyCatBella (talk) 09:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@GizzyCatBella: The complaint has merit. The edits at issue violate your topic ban for the reasons given by Icewhiz. In your response here, you do not substantially address these edits. When you write that "there is nothing about WW2 history of Poland within the articles", you misunderstand the scope of a topic ban, as described at WP:TBAN: it does not only include edits directly addressing the World War II history of Poland, but also everything related to that topic. This includes persons known for being active in the World War II history of Poland, or for writing about it.
In enforcement of the topic ban, you are blocked for a week. Because of this recent violation of the topic ban, I decline to lift it. Sandstein 09:49, 18 May 2019 (UTC)