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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by NuclearUmpf (talk | contribs) at 20:28, 30 November 2006 (→Evidence presented by []: opps fixed). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Evidence presented by Aude

Barnstar awarded to indef blocked User:TruthSeeker1234

User:Seabhcan began editing Collapse of the World Trade Center in April , which User:TruthSeeker1234 also edited. TS1234 who has since been indefinitely blocked in June for violations of WP:POINT with sockpuppet User:EngineerEd, and for general incivility, disruption, and "exhausting community patience". When TS1234's sockpuppet was known, Seabhcan rewarded TS1234 with a barnstar and regarding TS1234's block, Seabhcan remarked on TS1234's talk page :

My two cent is that all the editors posting here have achieved new and extraordinary levels of incivility, rudeness and POV pushing. This includes, but is not limited to, Tom Harrison, Morton Devonshire and particularly Mongo, who once proudly stated in ANI that "I intend to insult you and others" in reply to a request to be more civil. That he wasn't then censured, but infact supported by other wikipedians, proved to me that some editors are above the law, and I lost interest in defending the wiki. I haven't edited much since. It would be a happy day to see all these editors blocked - "a plague on both your houses"! Seabhcán 11:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Evidence presented by MONGO

Seabhcan has repeatedly violated our Civility and No personal attacks policies

Examples include: "...theres no point getting cross with Morton. His aims here are so hypocritical as to be laughable. He is a caricature wont unto flesh. His world view is so narrow that a cigarette paper of enlightenment could not be slipped between his prejudice and his bigotry, etc", "I think you need a holiday - or a psychiatrist.", "...or force their employers to hire a few more goons to edit", "...Misplaced Pages seems to be dominated by a bunch of anti-free speach fascists" and the edit summary "monkeys run the zoo", "This article is his personal kitty-litter and he won't stand to see it defiled with fact or information", "Mongo's insults don't bother me. I've come to realise that he's probably just a 15 year old kid using his dad's computer, laughing through his zits at what he can get away with", "Another fine comment there from Professor Mongo. Keep up the fight against Junk Science Prof. Mongo!", "To claim that Gladio is a hoax is laughable. I had assumed you were merely ignorant", "Here's some more anti-semitic bilge from Monty" with edit summary "Monty and TDC, brothers in antisemitism". More examples via comments and edit summaries can easily be found: , , , . Seabhcan repeatedly has referred to established editors that disagree with his edits as "trolls", a "cabal", and with other derogatory comments and was blocked on 11/25/2006 for a no personal attacks policy violation.

Seabhcan makes broad generalizations about "Americans"

Seabhcan seems to have some bias against "Americans" who he also refers to as "nationalistic" in a derogatory manner: "...sick of talking to dumb Americans who prefer to push patriotic propaganda over history" (which he slightly altered after extensive discussion), "Mo-ty needs to learn to put his fanatical nationalism to one side when he edits", "They are here to push their personal nationalistic bias. History, citation, reality, take a back seat to promotion of their personal myths.", "I will point out that Tbeaty, Mongo, TDC, Morton Devonshire and others have been behaving as an unacceptable and trollish cabal who attempt to push their nationalist POV while punishing users who stand up to them" , "The problem is that Americans are uniquely defensive of what they think should be true, rather than what is true", and "Hi 81.165... The answer is no. Your research will not be accepted. If anything you add is in any way objectionable to the American editors, or any one of them, they will gang up on you and bully you out of wikipedia. It doesn't matter how many references or sources you have. Wiki-reality is what the American editors say it is. If Bush says up is down and down is up, then this article will be up for deletion tomorrow (its clearly conspiracy cruft anyway)", "...for many American editors the events of 9/11 have become a kind of religious dogma, and they are unwilling or unable to step back and consider them dispassionately". This kind of commentary is not conducive to an international effort to write an encyclopedia.

Seabhcan has misused his admin tools

Seabhcan violated Misplaced Pages:Protection policy when he edited the article Operation Gladio several times in one 24 hour period, "rm Hoax banner. What idiot put that there?", , and to avoid violating WP:3RR, on his next edit, he protected the page on his preferred version., . Seabhcan also edited the protected article Allegations of state terrorism by United States of America, and there was discussion regarding this issue. Very early after Seabhcan and I were in our first encounters with each other, Seabhcan threatened to block me while he was engaged with me in an editing dispute.

Seabhcan has edit warred

Lately, Seabhcan has been blocked twice for violating the three revert rule, on 11/12 and 11/29/2006.

Harassment

After I gave a bad warning to indefinitely block User:SalvNaut for what I saw as a personal attack, Seabhcan then came to my talkpage and stated "My dearest Mongo, I have started an AN/I on you (sic) idiotic threat to block SalvNaut" He then engaged me in discussions on the matter both on my talkpage and at AN/I, where I admitted after reviewing others sentiments on the issue, I would not be blocking SalvNaut. During the course of these discussions, in which both Seabhcan and I were already online, Seabhcan then sent me two emails challenging me to block other editors who had commented on the situation. The emails weren't threatening or abusive, but they were obviously designed to harass and heighten the level of dispute in a deliberate effort to provoke an ill reaction from me. There was no call for the emails as we were already heavily engaged in discussions in two different locations on Misplaced Pages. Seabhcan admitted to sending the emails. But the harassment isn't limited to me. Seabhcan has repeatedly belittled others, condescendingly talking down to various editors, making pun on their username (User:Morton devonshire) , , and adding conflict where there should be none. As an administrator, Seabhcan should make better attempts to rise above such behavior, especially when dealing with non-admins.

Travb seeking revenge

During my recent arbcom case brought against me rootology (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (the editor that originally brought forth the case) was indefinitely blocked after reading a proposed remedy which specified he would be banned indefinitely and then proceeding to attack a number of editors. Immediately upon seeing that Rootology had been banned, Travb (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) proceeded to my arbcom case and demanded disciplinary action be brought against me, accused Fred Bauder of having a "first-mover advantage" based on an article Travb cited. Travb then requested that Rootology be given a "watered down free pass" as I had supposedly be given, even though Travb knew that Rootology had attacked a number of editors in his final edits before being blocked, and there was conclusive proof that Rootology had engaged in editing the encyclopedia dramatica website after repeatedly lying about it, and posting vicious attacks on a number of Wikipedians who have articles there, Travb still defended Rootology., , . Travb then went on to claim that he felt that Fred Bauder was biased since he thinks Fred and I are both conservatives, , . After making accusations that Fred Bauder may not be an impartial arbitrator and that he had a "first-mover advantage", Travb then solicited help from Seabhcan. and then returned to the arbcom case to be disruptive, was blocked (one of many blocks) and later apologized to Fred and myself after he had calmed down.

My behavior

I admit I am very often blunt in my rhetoric, and as a skeptic, I always question information that is not mainstream. Seabhcan and I seem to have first encountered each other in April 2006, on articles related to the events of 9/11/2001. I think my short, oftentimes dismissive responses to non-mainstream "evidence" can oftentimes be seen as rude by others, perhaps evoking a poor response. I recently stated my belief regarding my encounters with Seabhcan by commenting to him "Between us, I know not exactly who threw the first stone, though your threat to block me while we were in an editing dispute was alarming. I know I haven't been as civil as I can, but feel that while I stopped this towards you some time ago, you have persisted, and as of late, you have only gotten worse. The people who oppose your edits or references aren't a cabal or fascists or dumb Americans"

User:Thomas Basboll started editing the Collapse of the World Trade Center article in July 2006. I believe he felt I had bitten him (a "newbie" editor at the time) and we discussed the situation recently here. My perspective is that Basboll was promotional of expanding the discussion related to alternative theories regarding the collapse of the World trade Center, and since almost nothing has ever been published by a reliable source that is verifiable that contradicts the known facts published by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and by every major media source, I have oftentimes dismissed such information as "nonsense", "junk science" and "rubbish". I also am a strong advocate of ensuring the undue weight clause of our NPOV policy are adhered to...in other words, since there are extremely few reliable sources from which we can reference any contradictory information regarding the collapse of the World Trade Center, in keeping with our undue weight application, the hypothesis which has no basis in fact is relegated to a short mention in the main article and if necessary, expansion in a "daughter" article elsewhere. Basboll was very communicative on his thoughts regarding substantive changes to the Collapse of the World trade Center article as shown here but it should be noted that a number of other editors there were also guarded as to the changes he proposed. An engineer who had worked on that article explained to Basboll why his efforts were being questioned, "Part of the skepticisim directed at you is also because you don't have much of an edit history" and was later told by User:Tom harrison, "Apparently new to Misplaced Pages, you jumped into a contentious article, made some improvements, and largely had your way with an extensive rewrite. Rejoice and be glad. You will be in a better position to judge Mongo's behavior after you have more experience.". I even pointed out to him a comment I made alluding to his efforts in my response to a question number 6 here stating "The article Collapse of the World Trade Center is an article I had worked on, until another editor showed up and made some fundamental changes which I at first opposed, yet now see his efforts to have been generally excellent". Basboll has also been easy to spot on the Steven E. Jones (an advocate that explosives may have been used to reduce the World Trade Center) article. While I completely disagree (as do virtually every civil engineer) with Jones's arguments, I have worked hard there to accomodate Basboll and others ensuring we enforce WP:BLP . As in the collapse of the WTC article, Basboll had proposed fundamental changes, not all of which I agreed with, yet I added what he wanted into the article for him while it was protected, and the discussion regarding this can be found here.

There has also been a request for comment regarding some disputed blocks I had perfomed. Though I had many persons who defended my actions, I signed most of the comments that made it clear that I should have others perform blocks when there is liklihood I am engaged in a content dispute.

User:Stone put to sky mentions a number of edits from a 2005, much of it centered around disagreements I was having with User:JamesMLane, User:Kevin Baas, User:Commodore Sloat, User:Ryan Freisling, User:Tony Sidaway, User:Kizzle, User:Derex, User:Rama regarding the issues of whether George W. Bush used cocaine, and more importantly, whether he was a "dry drunk"...a term that is used by Alcoholics Anonymous to describe a former alcoholic who hasn't been properly treated to deal with the supposed after affects of going sober. There were a number of books written by people, two of which by practicing psychologists, that I saw as having an axe to grind. In terms of the two psychologists, I argued that neither had performed a proper psychological evaluation as their opinions on Bush's behavior were being drawn form observations made for "afar", and that they hadn't in fact done a standard face to face evaulation as one would expect from persons in their positions. One of the psychologists in fact was not a member of the American Psychological Association due partly to his books and commentary...they wouldn't accredit him. Since that heated period, JamesMLane and I tried to find a way to protect harassed and now departed User:Gator1, whose real life identity had been compromised by Amorrow/Brandt. Commodore Sloat has asked me to assist on articles including Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Ryan Freisling and have a friendship these days and she was very supportive of me when I was dealing with the encyclopedia dratmatica (ED) issues. Tony Sidaway supported my adminship in November 2005 and he and I spent many an hour protecting each other from various trolling attempts, Tony also being very supportive of my episodes regarding ED. Derex and I have worked on some things together and he has asked me to chime in on various issues. Rama later supported my adminship as well, stating " I appreciate his handling of the talk page of George W. Bush; clearly one who survives in this environment will be comfortable in easier situations". Kizzle supported my adminship , and we have worked on some issues together since as well. I don't know what more proof one can need to demonstrate that I know how to build friendships and work collaborative with editors I may have had previous disputes with.

Evidence presented by User:Travb

It's with heavy heart that I see this arbitration request come forward. It is not my intent to reignite the tempers which flared on the Administrator's Noticeboard, Bureacrat's Noticeboard, and various talk pages. It's also not my intent to declare any one party "right" or "wrong" in this, because as I see it, all parties have made such decisions for themselves. Instead, I feel this ArbCom came about because of all parties inability to comprimise, negotiate, and apologize. I feel what fueled this fire for so long was a level of personal attacks in the form of unsubstantiated accusations which do nothing to serve the goals of the encyclopedia. Unfortunatly, arbitration is necessary to give the involved parties an opportunity to substantiate their claims, and to give arbcom the opportunity to clarify what level of claims constitute opinion or personal attacks.

As the old saying goes, "Don't throw stones in a glass house". On wikipedia, this saying would be, don't accuse others of gross wikipedia violations and incivility if you are uncivil yourself. Travb (talk) 20:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

MONGO has repeatedly violated our Civility and No personal attacks policies

This represents only half of the most recent 500 edits of MONGO, in the past two days ONLY.

In the time I have spent researching this, the below tone is consistent throughout all of MONGOs edits, from when he became an editor in Jan 2005. I have reseached his Jan 2005 edits, his July 2006 edits, and his most recent edits. The tone, incivility, and wikipedia violations are consistently the same.

Relevance: Almost all of these edits of MONGO here (if not all of these edits), center around all of the same 9/11 pages which MONGO and Seabhcan have debated on "for the past 6 months".

WP:NPA violations

• 09:50, 29 November 2006, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks, Trolling removed
• 09:49, 29 November 2006, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks, trolling remove...will start removing all trolling for no on Also WP:BITE violation.
• 09:34, 29 November 2006, Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, Block review requested I have blocked Cplot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for one week for disruption and trolling....Cplot has been trolling various articles and has been repeatedly trying to add NPOV tags for which there is no consensus and when asked what he feels the issues are that make the article unbalanced, he gives vague referencing that the article is controlled by the feds (US GOvernment) and the like.
• 09:26, 29 November 2006, User talk:Cplot, Cplot...I told you several times to remove a nonexistant category from the September 11, 2001 attacks talk page...you deliberately acted dumb about it. Then you added it here on your own talk page.
• 22:58, 28 November 2006, User talk:Cplot, yopu might as well give up as I think anyone surely sees that your efforts are nothing but disruption. I'm heading out, if you're up to the same antics tomorrow, you're done on wikipedia. Straighten up or get lost.
• 22:52, 28 November 2006, User talk:Cplot, Cplot...remove the vandalism category from that talkpage. The games are done.--
• 20:37, 28 November 2006, User talk:MONGO "remove trolling"

WP:AGF

• 15:36, 29 November 2006, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks, We are not going to go into a long diatribe about the Iraq War in this article.
• 20:25, 28 November 2006, User talk:MONGO, I think that it's clear to anyone that you are only on wikipedia for the purposes of disruption. Now, go report that I have violated WP:BITE.
• 20:05, 28 November 2006, User talk:MONGO, You don';t get your way so you attack others? I repeat...there is no NPOV tag on this article and won't be until you can demonstrate what the problems are with the neutrality of the article.
• 20:02, 28 November 2006, User talk:Cplot, You're just disruptive, nothing more and I have done nothing "wrong" as you indicated
• 14:05, 28 November 2006, User talk:MONGO, Please don't come to my talk page and misrepresent the facts of the case.

General incivility

• 22:16, 28 November 2006, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks, I am more convinced than ever that you are right...surely the illuminati/"feds"/Reptilian master race are in control of what goes on in this article...I wish I had noticed this sooner.
• 18:55, 28 November 2006, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks, Deleting heading of Cplot. Cplot...keep my name out of it...this is not the way to act if you want something done
• 17:28, 28 November 2006, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks, Your attempts to introduce misinformation in this article has been repeatedly overturned by a large number of editors...clear indication that the consensus is not in favor of your alterations. My arbcom case here has nothing to do with this article...zero. Yes, when people come along and try and force feed us a bunch of nonsense like you have been doing for a long time now, we can waste our time rebutting your comments, say nothing at all (probably the best option), or just provide a simple...No thanks.

Ability to accept alternate views

• 09:13, 28 November 2006, David Ray Griffin it is not an alternative theory...that is simply untrue...
• 09:06, 28 November 2006, User talk:MONGO, You give yourself too much credit. When you showed up at the Collapse article, you had every intention of adding in the CT stuff...myself and others made sure that the junk science stayed out, forcing you to stick to the known facts of that case. After reworking that article, you then proceeded to others where the CT jargon was more tolerable.

Please remember, the above only represents the past 2 days, less than 250 edits of MONGO. As time permits, I will continue to add more.

User:TheronJ retorts below, ignore two very important facts: that Cplot was a newbie and MONGO violated WP:BITE, that MONGO consistently treats many wikiusers this way, accusing many wikiusers of harrassment and trolling, which violates WP:AGF and WP:NPA (as I will show in exhastive detail later). How would User:TheronJ respond to MONGO's treatment of User:Lovelight?

Travb (talk) 20:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.

Evidence presented by User:Lovelight

Vigor

MONGO's robust, zealous and vigorous actions, as well as particular way in which he ends or disrupts discussions can easily cause resent, perhaps even outrage. What you'll read below is a letter of mine, it was addressed to 'unblock-en-l@wikipedia.org', you may find it a bit silly, and I had to cut a few sentences but it should serve its purpose and describe how easily encounter with MONGO throws of balance… Why would I present such unorthodox evidence? Please keep in mind that it was written by stunned newcomer, I had very little knowledge about policies or inner-works then… To keep things in perspective, this was around 911 memorial so there were lot's of tensions, there were some really ridiculous government warnings (tags) and very poor language all over 911 talk page… in other, more related words, MONGO was particularly edgy at the time, so he would huff and puff and blow things in his way… as a result every discussion (or editor) which strayed of the "path" was immediately "chocked to death". To some extent this problem persists today…

8/22/06

Subject: 911 & Lemmings (disputed article 911)

"I want that article about 911 attacks changed, you have to understand that there is nothing destructive about discussing it… it's about different points of view… you are not doing anything there but keeping the status quo… I won't take it, I'm no vandal, I know what will happen if I start to edit disputed article… But I won't discussion to be discussion… every single link commander MONGO removed from there was more than closely related to the article… One thing is for sure, you won't (and I won't let you) moderate me… User MONGO better explain his standing point, for at this moment he is nothing but lie, deceit and/or an very old form of anomaly? So say it, if you have anything to say? There is no argument you have, which I won't destroy in a free fall… I will be free to write politely and speak kindly what ever I wish, when ever I wish, and on any level of my conciseness… thank you for that lock out…

PS

As I've seen user MONGO is our administrator? The man who poses behind those towers on his own page, and then obstructs and destructs every chance for discussion? He' is no administrator of mine… this issue has to be resolved. If people don't know what's at stake here, they simply wont know…

With Peace & Love,

USER: LoveLight"

Libelous misconduct of Wiki editor?

Fact is, MONGO's conduct with editors (especially with rookies) is a bit like military drill, or perhaps good old police work. Arguments as: "No." or "Move along, nothing to see here…" are occurring once to often. Such actions or conclusions would probably be understandable if they would come after decent discussion. But it's fairly easy to verify otherwise. I've checked (some of) the policies and I'd say that MONGO is breaking too many too openly, so perhaps he shouldn’t walk around and openly accuse others? Of course from my perspective, having a duel with arbitrators is far more complicated then shaking hands…

Introducer

Then again, after introductions such as this one: "He's been warned. Let's see if he responds appropriately. I suppose we should leave off the boilerplate for now, especially since we already have a troll warning at top.--MONGO 07:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)" and my increased interest in boilerplates, me and MONGO learned to get along. Right MONGO? Here and there we share a few kind words of disagreement, and life goes on…

MONGOquotes

Quite frankly...who gives a crap what you think? The event happened in the U.S. and your anti-American bias is so obvious you can cut it with a knive so shove off. I don't go into articles about events that happened in countries outside the U.S. and tell them they're biased. You're failure to see that the events of 9/11 were textbook level definitions of terrorism betray your obvious anti-American bias. Stop wasting our time with this radical nonsense.--MONGO 15:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Fine. I'll spin it the UN way.--MONGO 04:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, islamofascists it is then.--MONGO 12:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, what a bunch of bullshit.--MONGO 20:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Evidence presented by TheronJ

Response to TravB's accusations that MONGO is incivil

I have been curious about the accusations raised against MONGO, et al., so I checked out the first few links TravB offered. Those edits are so obviously not problematic that I'm not inclined to read more. Specifically:

• An anonymous editor wrote, in full:

From reading through these Fed losers pathetic antics. it looks like each of them believes if they work realy hard, dutifully standing watch over this article they'll get to be the one to blow Prsident Bush. I can see why they work so hard at it. Give those men a cigar.

• MONGO deleted that talk page edit and called it "trolling.", (Accurately, IMHO).
• Incredibly, TrabB concludes that by calling the anonymous editor's contribution "trolling," MONGO has committed a personal attack.(See first two entries above, or here if you want the diff).

As I've said, that kind of judgment doesn't fill me with a desire to read through the rest of TravB's accusations, although I suppose someone should at least take a look at a random sampling. TheronJ 04:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Evidence presented by Stone Put To Sky

MONGO is an out of control POV pusher

MONGO considers many things which are simply objective statements to be "anti-american" and I, as a patriotic U.S. citizen, am deeply offended by his abuse of the term, by his abuse of his power as an administrator when qualifying that statement, and by his insistence that because he is an American he somehow has an exclusive and privileged right to interpret and analyze all statements made about the U.S.A. by people of other nationalities.

Moreover, he also wrongly considers *any* publication of viewpoints contrary to his own to be "anti-american" and "POV-pushing". Witness this, from an exchange of his back in mid-2005:

I fail to see how the slander that constitutes the George Bush article is anything other than the political persuasion of the far left and fail to see how the incorporation of so much inuendo and heresay makes for good reporting. Perhaps it is the likes of your political persuasion that won't allow you to edit the article with a NPOV, not mine. As I mentioned, I consider this an impossible impasse.

Now, please keep in mind that this is all in response to a widely publicized book by a responsible researcher. Despite the fact that this book clearly meets WP:RS, in this thread MONGO utterly ignores all entreaties to simply accept that the book meets basic standards of bibliographic reliability and instead repeatedly assails his opponents with personal attacks. All of these phrases stink of entrenched, obstinate POV-pushing; these are just a few samples of phrases and attitudes on this thread:

• this article reeks of leftist redundancy and I am not going to detail it for you
• This article is a worthless rag and the only place it is acceptable is here. I'm not going to discuss it any further and you can say whatever you wish as my opinion is different which means that since it is in opposition to yours, we are at an impasse.
• I find CBS news to be leftist. I consider all of Hollywood to be leftist....I do not fear these people, but in fact, I think they are extremists.
• PosterA: I'd recommend you visit Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette and Misplaced Pages:Staying cool when the editing gets hot....I hope you can separate yourself from your political persuasion and actually contribute constructively.
• MONGO's response to above: I feel that the warnings and etc. I have gotten such as this from you are rude as I don't remember going into your talk page and handing out advice on courtesy....it is the likes of your political persuasion that won't allow you to edit the article with a NPOV, not mine....I consider this an impossible impasse.
• In my eyes, the article is written with a bias and that bais is left wing.
• You assume that our leaders, in that our current administration is guided by a feeling of revenge, oil and simplistic things as such which are easy to point at, when the rational for invading Iraq are much more complex.
• Why is it liberals are so quick to talk about rights and freedoms and liberties, yet fail to understand that not in all cases can these issues be resolved with diplomacy.
• You have no idea how ignorant you are. Maybe in 10 years you'll be able to formulate an intelligent argument without all the philosophical hype. The real world is a different place and you have no idea how close we are to armafuckengeddon.
• You don't know what I know...what do you think I do for a living?
• So they wouldn't lose credibility, the intelligence community back pedalled on their previous view that WMD's were in Iraq in order to be politically correct. I know this to be a fact....you don't so consider this to be enlightening...not that you'll accept it because it doesn't fit into your narrow definition of reality.

All of this from *one* discussion page!

Check out that last statement: MONGO is asserting that he has privileged, absolutely unsourced information that flies in the face of all available evidence; from here -- and on that basis -- he goes on to assert that the interlocutor is "ignorant" and "unenlightened" and "narrow" because he doesn't accept MONGO's assertion at face value -- and then he has the gall to plead that he "doesn't want to sound rude"!!

I have seen nothing that suggests MONGO has changed his strongly POV-centric idea of what is "valid" and what isn't. Since mid-2005, MONGO has become a very shrewd editor and much less direct in his efforts to sway Misplaced Pages content, but there is nothing to suggest that he has any real understanding of what this place is meant to become. From MONGO's standpoint -- as this one exchange makes perfectly clear -- Misplaced Pages entries should by all rights be brought into accord with his own world view before they can be considered commendable.

Unfortunately, most of the world -- indeed, most of the United States, even -- don't share many of MONGO's unsubstantiated, unfounded, and in many cases unjustifiable opinions.

Now, we see that MONGO himself admits that *even* *now*, in November 2006, he abuses his status as an administrator to force the rhetorical direction of articles more to his liking. Witness:

• ...explain to the admin coming in why you think you should be unblocked. If unblocked and you revert me one more time, I'm going to block you for a week.
• Expect to see me blocking the trolls such as Truthseeker and others on very little provocation...I just blocked User:Pokipsy76 for 48 hours since he routinely reverts me everytime I edit the 9/11 articles.

And there is plenty more evidence of this sort of abuse. Even now, MONGO clearly uses his status as an administrator to target individuals he disagrees with; this is made clear in the user page archive of the contributor DickClarkMises. Witness:

• (from MONGO's own user page) Will Beback: MONGO, I respect your contributions to the project, but I have to disagree with your efforts against user:DickClarkMises's mention of his political campaign. Many other admins have pointed out that this...is quite common and not clearly prohibited. If the policy needs to be changed then let's do so....your conduct appears to be targeted at the individual rather than his behavior, perhaps because of what you perceive to be his political beliefs or interests....-Will Beback

There are several other editors and administrators who came to DCM's defense on this; the link in question simply pointed out that he was running for office, and nothing more. As DCM pointed out, it was simply an indication of who he was and what he did, and in no way intended as a personal advertisement. Rather, it was only an indication of his specialties and potential biases. After several editors come to DCM's defense, MONGO chimed in with this:

• (on DCMise's page) MONGO: ...you, after telling me that I was making personal attacks, then labeled all of them as "crazy". How obtuse can you be.

Besides the fact that this's clearly a personal insult aimed at an editor over activity on another page, the above petulance over the use of the word "crazy" is immediately followed with this:

• I mean really...the gaul of advertising and linking us to your politcal efforts by way of Misplaced Pages. As an established editor, you certainly should know better.

Could the insinuation be any clearer?

There is considerably more on the page, as well; all of these are by MONGO:

Regarding Morgan Reynolds, a political commentator / economist:

• Least I know from you linking Morgan Reynolds where you stand. Thanks! It would be best if you removed (at the least) links to your political efforts from your userpage.

And witness this exchange lower down on the page:

• I don't disagree at all that Striver's little stunt here is WP:POINT, however, I grossly disagree with your assertion that Haney's not notable. Haney's account of life inside Delta Force is required reading for any serious scholar of special operations forces. Please reconsider your vote. I'm going to go chastise Striver for the stunt, but the article should stay. Had I realized Haney didn't already have a WP article I would have created one. Georgewilliamherbert 05:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Then vote your choice, but don't badger me here about whether you agree with my vote or not..do so there, as loud as you want. The article is lousy (as one would expect) from the originator. I also am not sure your policeman tone is the best in my usertalk...you're not a mediator, not an arbitrator, not an admin, and not really all that experienced, so i don't think you have any right to lecture me about a vote I made or to go to Strivers page and admonish him...you should concentrate on you.--MONGO 05:21, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

There are a myriad of these examples out there, no doubt nearly as many that have been self-deleted, and there are certain to be many more with each passing day. Many are veiled threats; some (as in the case of DCM) are veiled and clearly personal in nature, as well; thus, with these few samples -- taken from two years back up to now -- we can see:

MONGO has clearly stated that in the cases where he disagrees with widely accepted news organizations, well-sourced published books, and widely respected authorities or commentators that he believes these sources to be "POV" and unsuitable for Misplaced Pages.

From his recorded behavior on many pages, it is more than obvious that he manipulates Wiki-policy to suit his personal political agenda, even to the point where he must be forced by the community at large to heel himself under the accepted consensus.

And he has openly admitted that, at least in some cases, he utilizes the banning procedure to eliminate the influence of other editors who take issue with his editing choices.

The question i want to ask is simple:

Why on earth does this person have administrative privileges?

Granted, he has contributed a lot of good material, and i respect that he has worked hard to clean up conspiracy indulgences on Misplaced Pages. However, these are editing skills; as an administrator, it is more than evident that MONGO indulges people and opinions with whom he agrees while abuses his privileges in order to exact penalties against those people or opinions he opposes. Obviously, good editing skills don't translate to good admin skills, and it is my considered opinion -- after witnessing MONGO's behavior on various Misplaced Pages pages -- that his administratorship be revoked.

These attacks against Seabhcan are clearly more of the same, and i consider them utterly contrary to the spirit of the Misplaced Pages community. They are indeed beyond the pale, and clearly Seabhcan has been targetted because of his advocacy for page content that MONGO considers "leftist", "liberal", "extremist", or "anti-american" -- which, from what i can tell, apparently means anything that comes from Hollywood, CBS, authors, directors, journalists or musicians with which MONGO disagrees, the UN, the International Court, anyone who served in the Clinton administration, anyone who criticizes George Bush (or thinks that he's a drunk, or thinks that he did cocaine), anyone who doesn't believe that Iraq had any WMD's, any European or Asian who doesn't support the U.S.' invasion of Iraq...or any one of a number of other things that are equally mainstream. Stone put to sky 13:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Evidence presented by NuclearUmpf

I was not gonig to get involved with this because I do not believe Arbcom is effective or necessary. However some of the evidence being presented is highly slanted and taken out of context or does not show the full picture including resolution. For instance:

Stone put to sky

There is much taken from the user page of DickClarkMises presented above. The complete issue is that MONGO felt as though they were violating WP:NOT by putting a link and mention of their election efforts, they were seeking a political office and mentioned this fact on their userpage. Per WP:NOT, MONGO stated this was advertising / campaigning and not how their userpage was suppose to be used. MONGO then took the issue to AN/I when DCM objected to the request. An admin then chimed in KillerChihuahua with his opinion backing MONGO's statement. Eventually the AN/I discussion concluded it seems that the link was fine and MONGO apologized to the user.

Issues from 2005? This is clearly so far off that it cannot be seriously guaged as a meter for how the user is today. MONGO was arguing that a book that alleged that Bush used cocaine should not be used because it was not based on facts but hearsay, Tony Sidaway argued that it didnt matter because it was a book, and hence useable as it passes WP:RS and WP:V, WP:V is in question actually.

Items regarding User:Pokipsy76. If you look at both dif's being given and simply click ahead slightly, you would see that another admin steps in and agree's with MONGO on the issues, that admin being Tom Harrison.

• First issue:

• Second issue:

• Pshemp, another admin even steps in and removes the request further stating the block was appropriate. and further again after Pokipsy76 requests unblocking a second time. Pokipsy's page was then protected to prevent his from using the unblock template after the third time he put it back.

So it seems these issues above are taken slightly out of context as there was an ongoing issue with the user that is not framed in any context and MONGO was supported by another admin in this instance.

Travb

Since noting Theron's statement above about the first issue regarding Travb's evidence I decided to look further and the next 4 incidents with times of 09:34, 29 November 2006, 09:26, 29 November 2006, 22:58, 28 November 2006, 22:52, 28 November 2006, are all related to cplot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who has since been indef blocked from the site. After the block MONGO took it to AN/I for review and recieved 4 replies in support from Ghirla, Sirex98, Alex Bakharev and Guy. For an example of what cplot was doing and continued to do by launching sockpuppets after his standard block you can see below:

• Violating block by continuing to edit the article:
• Violating block by editing the talk page:
• Cplot sockpuppet request list + evidence of association:

One of these is particularly venomous, yet required to see what kind of editor cplot was:

As you can see cplot was in fact a troll, laid out broad accusations of Federal Agents editing Misplaced Pages to hide the truth, and of course of "raping babies" in their spare time. This user was attempted to work with on the talk page by numerous people including myself, which asked him to present some section that needed work, however all he ever did was attack them or insist that they were wrong. The further claim that this was a case of WP:BITE is in fact wrong as cplot had been editing Misplaced Pages since May 2006, with well over 500 edits under this belt.

Lovelight's "Mongo Quotes"

1. Seriously, what a bunch of bullshit.--MONGO 20:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

   This was in direct response to a user stating that the September 11 attacks on the United States were not "terrorist attacks" even though 99.5% of the world agree's, because its a "judgemental term", User Peter Grey then responded by posting the definition of terrorism to counter this arguement, and Mongo in agreement with Peter Grey stated the above. The article still says "terrorist attacks."

2. Fine. I'll spin it the UN way.--MONGO 04:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

   This was in response to Doc Glasgow stating that he was going to unwatch the page, 9/11 attacks, and that: I'll not trouble you with debate any longer. Spin it your way. --Doc 22:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC) Mongo's reaction was clearly sarcastic, being as its not just "his way" but as pointed out in the discussion by Doc himself, the way of 99.5% of the population, and by Mongo as the way the news and other enclyclopedia's portray the event.

3. Okay, islamofascists it is then.--MONGO 12:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

   This was a mistaken situation that Damburger goes on to explain in the very next edit. Mongo seems to have misread and thinks Damburger is arguing for the use of the label Islamofacists over Islamic Militants, Damburger corrects him in the very next edit, all 3 parts of the discussion are present in this dif. Mongo does not even return to the discussion, however it proceeds with numerous other people opposing Damburgers request that the events no longer be cited as "terrorist attacks"

Mongo's "Seabhcan has misused his admin tools"

The first item mentioned regarding placing the page under protection for the purposes or removing the {{hoax}} tag is actually an example of a good edit. The page on Operation Gladio is actually factually supported. The events and concept of Nato "stay behind" networks is highly sourced and while one of the sources is disputed to an extent, even the US government has since admitted they existed. While generally I am against "conspiracy theories" dominating articles on Misplaced Pages, or being given credit to them through their appearance here, Gladio is actually a well documented event and the citations in the article are in abundance. While I would not call it vandalism, it was quite clear to me at least that protecting the page was necessary to keep the falsely placed hoax tag off. This is as much an content dispute as a hoax tag appearing on the articles of major religions, and religious figures.

Evidence presented by Junglecat

Responses to civility "evidence" against MONGO and NPA issues as presented by User:Travb

Travb is quick to point out that MONGO has violated WP:NPA in that he removed text from his talk page here. Looks like MONGO did the right thing. It doesn’t look good defending users who are involved in violating WP:SOCK as per this log, and who are disruptive in my honest opinion. JungleCat Shiny!/Oohhh! 13:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Evidence presented by Morton_devonshire

This is an arbitration about Seabhcan's behavior. While tangental discussion about the other editors is to be expected, the focus of this Request for Arbitration is with respect to Seabhcan's behavior and we shouldn't lose sight of that. If you want to open an Rfc/Arb on MONGO, then "fill your boots" as the Canadians say, but this Arbcom is primarily about Seabhcan.

1. "I don't know but I'm open to suggestions! Really, there are only 5-10 of these problem editors. However, they seem to have an extraordinary amount of time to devote to their trolling. We honest editors have real lives to live. If we had a solid group of about 20-30 editors willing to cover wikipedia in shifts and to shout down this POV-pushing then we could balance them (or force their employers to hire a few more goons to edit)"17:34, 18 November 2006
2. "You can try, and you may win some battles. The problem is that this group of editors will wait like vultures until you or others lose interest and move on. Then they'll go to work again stripping away material that they don't want others to see."16:27, 18 November 2006
3. "I agree. Thanks for your support. Mo-ty needs to learn to put his fanatical nationalism to one side when he edits."21:45, 17 November 2006
4. "Oh, but pushing Mo-ty's buttons is so easy and fun. You should try. Its addictive." 21:57, 17 November 2006
5. "To be honest, I don't think it would make any difference. After months and years of dealing with people like morty, TDS, Mongo, and the rest, it is clear that they have no interest in wikipedia. They are here to push their personal nationalistic bias. History, citation, reality, take a back seat to promotion of their personal myths."23:09, 17 November 2006
6. "On wikibreak - sick of talking to dumb people of certain nations who prefer to push patriotic propaganda over history."20:08, 31 October 2006 - Removed after extensive discussion.
7. 13:15, 8 October 2006 edit summary "Saint Mongo of Factoid has pronounced upon this topic, but not yet blessed us with a holy citation, let us pray this will be improved in future"
8. "I think we've reached the same old impass again. Mongo doesn't want anything changed, Tom is afraid of changing anything and MMX1 (which stands for "Mini-Me of Mongo X1") will chime in any moment now with a WP:NPA warning."14:30, 21 July 2006
9. 08:50, 21 July 2006 "I think you need a holiday - or a psychiatrist."
10. "This article is his personal kitty-litter and he won't stand to see it defiled with fact or information."10:59, 20 July 2006
11. "Ha ha. Mongo - I don't doubt that you 'spread lies', as you put it, in your spare time."11:13, 20 July 2006
12. "Thanks for the pep talk Guinnog, but I'm too fed up with this wanker to work on the 9/11 stuff anymore."18:45, 3 June 2006
13. "(Mongo's insults don't bother me. I've come to realise that he's probably just a 15 year old kid using his dad's computer, laughing through his zits at what he can get away with)"16:07, 4 May 2006
14. "I think its a fair comment given your recent trolling and accusations of 'junk science'. "20:18, 30 April 2006
15. "Another fine comment there from Professor Mongo. Keep up the fight against Junk Science Prof. Mongo!"10:14, 30 April 2006 - "Mongo's contribution to the world of science."
16. 11:46,10 November 2006 edit summary ". . . Please learn something about European history before you edit."
17. "You should perhaps consider using your education when you make edits. To claim that Gladio is a hoax is laughable. I had assumed you were merely ignorant. Obviously that isn't the reason you made such a silly edit. What is the reason?"16:56, 10 November 2006
18. "Here's some more anti-semitic bilge from Monty" 12:18, 11 November 2006 and the edit summary "Monty and TDC, brothers in antisemitism" And 10:47, 11 November 2006, where Morton tells him that it isn't "Monty" prior to the 12:18, 11 November 2006 edit.
19. ". . . Misplaced Pages seems to be dominated by a bunch of anti-free speach fascists, . . ." 11:28, 11 November 2006 and the edit summary "(monkeys run the zoo.)"
20. ". . . Doing that makes you seem dishonest, when perhaps, you are merely lazy." 14:45, 10 November 2006
21. "Thats daft. First . . ." (referring to Tbeatty's reasoning in the previous paragraph) 17:29, 13 November 2006
22. "Yes. Bauder gave a stupid answer so I don't accept it. Really Mongo, for someone from "the land of the free" you are amazingly against free speach and discussion. What are you afraid of?" 13:30, 11 November 2006
23. "'in fact am always respectful'! Ha ha ha ha. You do have a sense of humour! The Forest Gump of Physics 14:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
24. Admin Fred Bauder admonishing Admin Seabhcan: "I think you jump a little quickly to extreme conclusions. Calling those who disagree with you fascists is over the top. . . " 11:21, 19 November 2006
25. "I will point out that Tbeaty, Mongo, TDC, Morton Devonshire and others have been behaving as an unacceptable and trollish cabal who attempt to push their nationalist POV while punishing users who stand up to them. ..." 08:13, 19 November 2006
26. "Interesting how you now use sources to prove your point, yet criticize me above for 'anti-american' sources. Zmag and counterpunch? Mongo, I'm surprised you read such anti-american, McChomsky trash. Really now! you should hand in your passport" 21:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
27. "I have started an AN/I on you idiotic threat to block SalvNaut. ... al Seabhcán bin Baloney (Hows my driving?) 14:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)"07:47, 26 November 2006
28. "OliverH, theres no point getting cross with Morton. His aims here are so hypocritical as to be laughable. He is a caricature wont unto flesh. His world view is so narrow that a cigarette paper of enlightenment could not be slipped between his prejudice and his bigotry, etc... "10:35, 25 November 2006