Misplaced Pages talk:Revert only when necessary

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Misplaced Pages essays Low‑impact

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Needs better wikification, and generalization

Virtually nothing in this is linked, not to policies, guidelines, or other essays.

I have yet to see a single thing in this page that only pertains to "articles", so that would should be replaced with "pages". The essay fails in its purpose if any system WP:GAMEr feels entitled to ignore every word of it because they're editing a template or a guideline or a portal or ....

After some improvement, it may be worth trying to merge other reversion-related essays into this one, though doing so now would be premature because the above problems make this page look like a draft instead of a stable essay that's been around 3 years already.

— SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼ 01:36, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Acceptable, unacceptable

I don't like the headings "Acceptable reversions" and "Unacceptable reversions" in this Misplaced Pages essay. It looks too much like a guideline or a policy, and these sections are not without controversy. The headings would be better as "Good reasons to revert" and "undesirable reversions" or something like that. I will make the change at some point if there are no objections here. 18:39, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree, but I hope you will use parallel construction (e.g. Good reasons to revert / Bad reasons to revert) or "Desirable Reversions / Undesirable reversions". We're trying to make a point by contrasts. Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 16:27, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

You got it. Thanks. -Jordgette 23:19, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposal: Nominate essay as a guideline

I want to nominate this essay as a guideline. Who's with me? —Wei4Green | 唯绿远大 (talk) 05:36, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

I am. The basic message of this essay is more deserving of being a guideline than any I've seen in a long time. Some material might need to be excluded because is written more like persuasion and explanation than guidance. Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 00:12, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Not me. And that's for the same reasons that I and others rejected the proposal to elevate WP:BRD to a guideline. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:47, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

I support this. I find the undo function necesssary but very problematic as it diminishes tools like and most of all the most basic and most accessable Misplaced Pages tool the talk page. It destroys discussion outside of the established users. It makes possible content often invisible. Reasons for undoing are too often problems with language or form, and not because of unresolveable issues. Nsae Comp (talk) 07:59, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

I would support it too. Too often, the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater from a good faith edit. Inevitably there would have be some changes to fit it into the guideline format. Anywikiuser (talk) 12:09, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Nah. Honestly much of this essay strikes me as naive. Edits that may be good faith, yet misguided and unsalvageable, are very common. We don't do such people a favor by keeping poor additions, and certainly not our readers. And what's also common is people coming on here to promote personal or fringe ideas. We should not try to keep some of such content and create a WP:FALSEBALANCE. Also, changes are scrutinized the most when they've just been done. Better to uproot poor content while it's new and we're examining it than let it sit around misleading people for possibly many years. -Crossroads- (talk) 05:26, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Sure, though it'll need some rewriting to be in guideline language not essay language. The place for such a proposal is probably WP:VPPOL, with notice at WP:VPPRO, WP:CENT, and some other good places, like WT:POLICY, WT:EDITING. In response to Crossroads's objection: misguided and unsalvageable content, including WP:FRINGE and WP:PROMO material, would surely qualify as "necessary" to revert. Lots of stuff is not, including material that passes WP:V (verifiable but doesn't have a citation yet), and my personal peeve: mass-revert of 20 cleanup changes to get at one thing you disagree with (e.g. undoing 19 citation repairs because someone also inserted a serial comma in that editing pass and you hate serial commas). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:03, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree that the essay allows reverts in the scenarios Crossroads describes. Particularly where it says reverting is appropriate if "the edit makes the article clearly worse and there is no element of the edit that is an improvement." Anywikiuser (talk) 22:09, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

I know that the essay does allow for reverting in such scenarios, but it still pushes too hard for trying to save it. It states: It is usually preferable to make an edit that retains at least some elements of a prior edit than to revert the prior edit. Furthermore, your bias should be toward keeping the entire edit. On average, this will result in more bad content being preserved. Especially because if editors are discouraged from reverting poor additions, rather than going through the effort to comb through them, they will be tempted to just save it all. As for mass reverting good edits to get at a bad one, I haven't seen much of that, which I agree is bad. What I have seen often is bad content that ends up deleted, and when its origin is investigated, it was added by a user with an obvious agenda, and it stuck around for years because people decided at the time to leave it be. As for me, I myself do save the good parts of mixed quality edits, as do most editors I've interacted with. So, this essay is unnecessary as a guideline, as it would take us in the wrong direction. -Crossroads- (talk) 03:50, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Don't single out bias and undue weight as revert-worthy

I removed

 Edits that introduce bias or undue weight  should be reverted until consensus is built.

because it followed,

 ... a reversion is appropriate when the reverter believes that the edit makes the article clearly worse and there is no element of the edit that is an improvement.

and I don't see any reason that bias and undue weight need to be called out specially. They are just two of many, many problems in an article that need to be corrected, and editors should use the same standards in deciding with a reversion is appropriate as with any of the others: incorrect facts, non-notable material, unreadable language, bad grammar, etc. Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 00:29, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

I disagree with that deletion. Introducing bias into an article doesn't necessarily make it clearly worse. Another editor might agree with the tendentious edit or believe that it clarifies something. I think the wording should be restored. -Jordgette 17:56, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

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