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Eddie891

Voice your opinion on this candidate (talk page) (10/0/0); Scheduled to end 11:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Nomination

Eddie891 (talk · contribs) – Recently, people have been slightly bemoaning the fact that most of our admins started editing Misplaced Pages years, if not decades, ago - so here's one from the class of (late) 2016. Having recently taken Fabian Ware to featured article status, Eddie's now got a bit of time to think about asking for the admin tools. As well as the aforementioned FA, he has a good selection of featured content, including further good articles and Did you know? nominations, which you can see on his user page. He has participated in a good number of Articles for deletion debates, and he puts across his points politely and respectfully, even when others disagree with him. He's also responded well to criticism and feedback over the last few years, and he's grown as an editor as a result. This shows to me he has the right levels of communication and skills to be an administrator, so I'm delighted to put him forward as one. Ritchie333 16:52, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Co-nomination

I'm delighted to nominate Eddie891 for adminship - aside from being a prolific content creator with four featured items, 15 GAs and almost 20 DYKs Eddie is a hard worker at AfD discussions. Throughout the last two years or so I have been impressed by their communication skills, policy knowledge and the ability to take on board information. I think they have the right stuff for adminship, with no concerns over their temperament or civility. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 07:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Co-nomination

If I may, I'll chip in, and recommend prospective !voters read this --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:33, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I gratefully accept. I have never edited for pay and my (seldom used) alternate accounts are User:Eddie892, User:Eddie893, and User:Eddie891's creature. An SPI into my relation with Eddie891isthesmartestpersonever (later blocked for harassment) was opened. I have no connection to that account whatsoever. Eddie891 _Work 23:04, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. Please answer these questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: I intend to be most active in closing Articles for deletion discussions, the administrative area where I have the most experience. I would also be willing to help out where needed, but wouldn't act as an administrator in an area without understanding the various nuances of the process first.

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: Of my content creation, I'm most proud of my four featured content, two featured articles: Fabian Ware and History of the Office of the Inspector General of the United States Army, a featured list, and a featured picture. Each represents a rather extensive project and I learned a lot while undertaking them; for instance before restoring the FP, I had no experience with image restoration, and I'm slightly ashamed to say that I hadn't even heard of Fabian Ware before working on his article. I also owe a lot to the reviewers that have taken their time to patiently work through my mistakes and oversights. Outside of FC, I would consider some of my best content to be article creation. I've really enjoyed throwing together articles like George R. Proctor and Peregrine Pollen that don't get further than DYK but are fascinating topics all the same. Also, some of my contributions that worked towards countering systematic bias stand out to me, including Lady Bathurst and Mary Margaret Francis. Similarly, I am proud of several contributions to existing articles, for instance the de-stub of Black Guard (Brazil) and being able to expand Juneteenth pretty substantially (with other editors) right before it got millions of views.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: I have been in assorted disagreements, but I try to always assume good faith and feel that it is very important to maintain civility and keep a cool head. With that being said, as a new user I was involved in several situations where I wish I had handled myself better. For instance, shortly after an FAC for Presidency of George Washington was closed as unsuccessful in 2018, a user left a message on the article talk, suggesting various changes to the content and structure of the article. I essentially dismissed them, demonstrating ownership over the article that I shouldn't have. Were I in the same situation today, I would assume their suggestions had merit, and work with the user to improve the article. Another time, after a draft of mine was incorrectly speedily deleted for copyright infringement (despite being copied from an existing Misplaced Pages article), I left a rather curt message on the talk of the CSD nominator, which was quickly reverted. Were I in the same situation today, I would remain calm and politely ask the deleting admin to restore the content. As a new user I also got involved in AFC reviewing without having a great understanding of notability. After making two particularly bad declines (of Casting About and Complex random vector), I voluntarily left the AFC project to learn more about notability standards, a move that I think was the right one. Since then, I've gotten a far better understanding of what notability is and why we have it, and would not decline either of those drafts if I came across them today. I've learned that it's important to remember we are all here to improve the encyclopedia. Being polite and respectful facilitates cooperation, and cooperation is a beautiful thing.

You may ask optional questions below. There is a limit of two questions per editor. Multi-part questions disguised as one question, with the intention of evading the limit, are disallowed. Follow-up questions relevant to questions you have already asked are allowed.

Additional question from Andrew D.

4. Please tell us about your account names. I suppose that Eddie is a personal name but are 891, 892 and 893 random numbers or what?

A: Sure, Eddie is my nickname (my real name is Edward) and several years ago I was signing up for an account on a site I've long left (though the name escapes me). Being spectacularly creative, I tried to make my username 'Eddie' which, no surprise, was taken. The site suggested 'Eddie891', and I went with it. When I was creating a Misplaced Pages account, I was looking for a username that was somewhere between my full name and a complete pseudonym, and that came to mind. So yes, 891 is random, though 8 is my favorite number and 9-1 = 8. As for 892 and 893, it was just adding +1 to the end, hopefully showing a connection to the original, for a alternate account(s). Eddie891 _Work 11:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Additional question from Dps04

5. Thanks for your contributions to date. I noticed from Q1 that, as an admin, you intend to be involved in closing AfD disucssions. While you have had quite substantial experience in participating in AfD discussions, you do not seem to have closed a lot of AFD discussions. According to the AfD closes counter, you only closed discussions 7 times in 2020, all of which are either procedural closes or withdrawing your own nomination. What is the reason you did not actively perform non-admin closures, and what experience would you point to which demonstrates your ability to evaluate community consensus?

A: So to answer the first part of your question: per WP:BADNAC point 2, a non-admin closure is not appropriate when "The outcome is a close call or likely to be controversial". So I would have been racing to be the first to close afds that are unambiguously 'keep', 'merge', or 'redirect', which really wouldn't demonstrate that I can assess consensus. Even relisting a discussion could be a poor choice, see WP:RELISTBIAS.In response to the second part: that's a bit more complicated. As is outlined on pages such as WP:NHC and WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS and templates like {{Not a ballot}}, consensus is based upon the strength and merit of arguments rather than the number. So, the best tool to have when closing AFDs is to know what a strong and meritorious argument looks like. While I won't say that my votes are all strong and meritorious, I like to think most of them come pretty close. Further, I've participated in a number of AFDs, and usually watchlist them after voting to see how it plays out. I've seen great arguments advanced, even when I don't agree with them (and I've also seen some pretty poor ones). I see how just about every AFD I vote in, and quite a few that I don't, gets closed. As such, I've learned which arguments to give weight and which to not, what makes a good argument and what makes a poor one. I think that's exactly what matters when it comes to evaluating consensus. Best, Eddie891 _Work 12:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Additional question from Nosebagbear

6. There are a number of AfD common outcomes, some of which aren't strictly bedded into notability written guidelines, but instead summarise the general viewpoints of most AfDs and their participants. One more common instance is that of national/sub-national politicians, who usually have to be elected to show notability, even if there is significant campaign coverage. What's your viewpoint on amending NPOL (either to explicitly allow/disallow) and if it doesn't change, how would you implement closes in this style (that is, lots of coverage, NPOL potentially not met)? Nosebagbear (talk) 12:30, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

A: NPOL is certainly a controversial guideline and an interesting case of the relationship between SNG and GNG. Discussions about candidates come around just about every election cycle. The arguments for deletion/redirect usually advanced generally make two points: 1) The candidate is only receiving coverage about being in an election, it's not them being notable but the election itself, 2) If they lose, they don't pass the ten year test and will only be notable for one event (running). Those keeping generally say that GNG is clearly met, so NPOL doesn't have to be. There are nuances, but that's the gist of it. There are, understandably, strong opinions on both sides of the discussion. You can find a discussion here, here, and the largest recent one here (no consensus).I actually think that the current set-up works decently. While I weakly feel that 'candidates need a lot of coverage to be considered notable', I understand both opinions and valid points can be made on either side. Not having a notability guideline explicitly favor one over the other while having AFDCO provide some guidance is a fine way for things to work out. As manifests at every turn, some users feel very strongly about candidates and their views are not likely to change—nor should they. As a new administrator, I would refrain from closing particularly controversial candidate discussions given that I have my own opinion, and would likely vote in them instead. "No consensus" is valid close, particularly for active political candidates, to a lot of these type discussions, because it's a scenario where there really is not consensus. Best, Eddie891 _Work 13:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

• Links for Eddie891: Eddie891 (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Edit summary usage for Eddie891 can be found here.

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review his contributions before commenting.

Support

1. As co-nom --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:34, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
2. As nominator Ritchie333 11:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
3. Support - do not currently see any issues. Not a nominator.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:39, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
4. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 12:02, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
5. Support I trust the candidate. Honest, listens to feedback, writes good content. Vexations (talk) 12:12, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
6. Sure. Mackensen (talk) 12:15, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
7. Support Has a clue. All the best. —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 12:16, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
8. I'm inclined to support, absent some terrible smoking gun. Clueful, very active, a serious content contributor, and responsibly using "pre-admin" bits like PageMover and Rollbacker. I normally don't weigh in this early, and wait for extensive Q&A to develop, but so far I see nothing that gives me concerns. The editor is clearly a net positive and would continue to be one as an admin. PS: I'm not concerned about lack of a long AfD-closure track record; WP:NAC limits the kinds of closures non-admins can perform).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  12:24, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
9. Oh hai. I've done two GAs with Eddie and he's always been a joy to work with. In fact, he's been poking me about finishing out that good topic for like a year now, and it is entirely my fault that we haven't gotten it done yet. GMG 13:18, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
10. Support: Looks good. - Ret.Prof (talk) 13:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

General comments

• I haven't evaluated the candidate in any substantial way but unlike the premise of question 5 I think it's great Eddie hasn't closed AfDs. It can be easy as a NAC to lean towards viewing discussions from the lens of close options that they can implement rather than all options. WP:Relist bias gets at some of it. I see it all too frequently in my time closing AfDs. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 12:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I find this interesting. I do think it is beneficial for AfD-focused candidates to have more NAC experience. However, given the hostility many of them get, I try not to view its (comparative) absence as a negative. Nosebagbear (talk) 12:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Either you're competent enough to understand how to close based on consensus and our deletion policy or you're not. There are plenty of things an editor can do to demonstrate competency at closing and easy enough to demonstrate compentcy with deletion by participating at AfD. In most realms I try to ride the admin are just editors with more buttons train; it just so happens that in this case the more buttons matters. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

While I would agree a lack of NAC experience is not fatal (or indeed a huge negative) to an adminship candidate (even one who stated they intend to focus on AfD closes as administrator), I certainly think some experience in closing AfDs is beneficial. Precisely because it is all too easy for non-admins to lean towards certain options in closing discussions (as Barkeep rightly pointed), the fact that a candidate has NOT done so or fall into common traps such as the relist bias demonstrates that they have the judgment necessary to evaluate community consensus as an admin. Speaking of the relist bias, while some (or even many) non-admins do have the penchant to relist everything in spite of a clear consensus (or in ignorance of the soft deletion option), there are circumstances where relists are entirely appropriate. If a non-admin is able to relist appropriately, this helps his case that he is competent in the AfD area. Also, I expected the candidate to point to some experience in closing other discussions, such as RM or other talk page discussions, which would be helpful in demonstrating the candidate's competence. Having said all this though, I am overall satisfied by the response I receive, and I do believe this candidate is a net positive to the project. I'll wait for more questions to emerge before casting my support vote. --Dps04 (talk) 12:59, 12 August 2020 (UTC)