Talk:Battle of Tannenberg - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Thestor (talk | contribs) at 10:41, 23 January 2007. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 10:41, 23 January 2007 by Thestor (talk | contribs)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Military history: European / German / Russian & Soviet / World War I Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	World War I task force

Numbers

Can someone check into the Russion numbers? My reading indicates that Samsonov had 150,000 troops and Rennenkampf had 200,000, but the box shows 150,000 for both Samsonov and Rennenkampf. I don't think this is correct, but I don't have any resources handy at the moment. Perhaps the box is referring to those troops that were actually present at Tannenberg, but in this case, then Rennenkampf should not be listed as a commander. CrackWilding 17:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I corrected the numbers. cheers 141.13.8.14 16:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Revenge

The Germans may have "redeemed" themselves by winning in the same location as the loss in 1410, but how exactly did they get revenge if they were fighting the Russians and not the Poles? Did Hindenburg really view this as "revenge", or is it just a poor choice of words? Appleseed 15:13, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the following line from the end of the article:

Hindenburg saw this battle as a fitting revenge for the defeat of the Teutonic Knights.

Feel free to put it back in with an explanation or reference. Appleseed 16:59, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

There were Russians at Grunwald (from Smolensk and other cities within the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) and there were Poles at Tannenberg (as Poland was part of the Russian Empire). Moreover, Hindenburg saw the battle as revenge against Slavs, not Russians specifically. In Russia, the PLC is often called "Litovskaja Rus'", or "Lithuanian Russia", since it contained huge tracts of Kievan Rus' lands and one of its official languages was "Russian" (Ruthenian). Kazak 05:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Nevertheless, would you mind providing a reference? Appleseed (Talk) 02:21, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK, there are no proofs of the presence of Smolensk units at Grunwald. Nevertheless, the Hindenburg's words seems logical. Teutons were defeted by the united forces of Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Lithuanians, Belorussians and Ukrainians) and the Kingdom of Poland (Poles). Possibly, there were also Russians from Smolensk in the army. In the 1914 none of those states existed any more, all of them were now provinces of the Russian Empire. The Empire stated itself as a rightful successor of those countries, so it was logical for Hindenburg to treat the defeat of Russia as a "revenge". User:AMartyn 11:10, 30 August 2006.

Encrypted

Kahn's Codebreakers indicates the Russian signals were encrypted, & broken by the Germans, not sent en clair. Can someone settle the dispute? Trekphiler 05:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The latter explanation is the one I have seen up to now. However it might be worth looking into this. PatGallacher 11:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

In the book August 1914 Solzhenitsyn cites the interception of "unencrypted signals" as of vital importance. As the battle progressed and lines of communication were breached- these interceptions became more frequent and disasterous for the trapped centre Corps.

Although, as encircling neared completion, a breakdown in communications occurred which rendered these intercepts as strategically less important.

See Solzhenitsyn's description (using research from the Ukraine) of dispatches proving far more effective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.80.138 (talk • contribs) 00:22, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

War Memorial

I cannot find the article on the Tannenberg war memorial, perhaps something could be added at the end of this article, or if I am missing it, a link to the war memorial article. thanks --Jadger 03:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

nevermind, I found it. --Jadger 03:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The Conclusion

Excuse me... but the conclusion "this battle lost the war" lacks anything even remotely close to logic. Could you please explain? The diversion of the troops was not an effect of the battle itself but of that of the German High Command DECIDING TO TRANSFER THEM. They didn't even take part in the battle so their transfer to the Eastern front is irelevant for the battle, as is the battle irelevant for their transfer. The troops were transfered to stop the huge Russian advance into Eastern Poland which (NOT to win this battle specifically), without this great and surprising victory, might have ended the war in 1914 in favour of the Entente. The decision was logical anyway... what proffesional soldier could have thought 1 army could defeat 2 armies on such wide front without any geographical advantages? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Makidonu (talk • contribs) 11:01, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Britain: A factor in the Schlieffen Plan?

Paragraph 3 contains the sentence, "The entire Schlieffen Plan was based on the idea of defeating France and England as quickly as possible, and then transporting their armies by train to the eastern front." I'm not sure that the entry of Britain was taken into consideration in the original Schlieffen Plan. Britain and France were not allies at the start of the German invasion and Britain only entered the war in response to Germany's violation of Belgian neutrality. Did von Schlieffen take British entry in consideration? --Beetfarm Louie 20:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

personally, I don't think so, everything I have heard on the matter is that Germany was reliant on UK remaining neutral, but you must remember the Schlieffen Plan was devised before Wilhelm II started the Naval Arms Race with Britain, which severely worsened the Anglo-German relations (and the Brits were itchin for a good fight just like everyone else in 1914). also I would like to point out in that sentence it says "The entire Schlieffen Plan was based on the idea of defeating France and England as quickly as possible, and then transporting their armies by train to the eastern front." this makes it seem as if the Germans were going to transport the Anglo-French forces to the eastern Front, a little misplaced subject in the sentence. should probably be "all German Forces" instead of "their armies"

--Jadger 20:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Who was in command?

Were Hindenburg and Ludendorff really in command of the German army during the battle of tannenberg? In a history forum (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282318) someone claimed that a certain Colonel Hoffman was actually in charge and reponsible for the victory, a wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/Max_Hoffmann) actually supports this. Has anyone more knowledge about this matter? thestor 10:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Categories: