Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Constanz (talk | contribs) at 10:56, 3 February 2007 (→Evidence presented by {your user name}: add section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: .

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

The Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as Arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies, Arbitrators vote at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

Evidence presented by Constanz

The Soviet rule is (most probably always) referred to as occupation in reputable sources

Variety of sources, as was cited on Talk:Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945 (diff):

- '"Ultimatums of June 15, 16, 1940, charged hostile activities; Russia had occupied the Baltics militarily and had arranged for pro-Soviet administrations to request admittance to the Soviet Union."' --Encyclopedia of World History

- '"Nazi-Soviet Pact of Aug., 1939, placed the Baltic countries under Soviet control, and the following month the USSR secured military bases in Estonia. Complete Soviet military occupation came in June, 1940."' Estonia, The Columbia Encyclopedia

- '"Soviet troops occupied Latvia in 1940, and subsequent elections held under Soviet auspices resulted in the absorption of Latvia into the USSR as a constituent republic."' --Latvia, The Columbia Encyclopedia

- Encarta uses it.

- multitude of results on google book search just for for "Soviet occupation" Estonia OR Latvia OR Lithuania

-Also Britannica:

Thus, as I've already claimed with my request, the 3 users - Irpen, Grafikm fr, User:Petri Krohn who dispute the fact of occupation, have engage in promoting MINORITY POV, and rigidly reject the Misplaced Pages:Verifiability principles. Constanz - Talk 10:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Those who dispute the term occupation have not presented any reputable sources

Irpen, Grafikm fr, User:Petri Krohn merely use WP:OR or straw man arguments instead of sources. Just some of their 'thesis':

1. “Baltic states joined USSR in 1940” - this here is one's own invention (doesn't satisfy WP:V)
2. Baltic states “were SSRs on their own rights, their representants sieged in the Supreme Soviet” and “All this hardly qualifies as "occupation"” - we can't base a dispute on one's sentiments
3. Calling the events Soviet occupation is called a modern form of Holocaust denial” - Are Western mainstream sources also holocaust-denying? The argument used by P.Krohn and others is esp. malicious (but is often repeated: )
4. The term 'occupation' is said to be “crafted during the Cold War” - again no sources, but own argumentation
5. To support (!) the thesis that Baltic states were not occupied by the USSR it is claimed that Baltic states collaborated quite willingly with Nazi Germany” (more willingly than the USSR 1939-1941?)
6. Another argument why 'occupation didn't take place': “Well, because Baltic people (in average, again) gladly collaborated with Nazis. Something they quite willingly "forget", I wonder why.”

From statements for Request for arbitration, there are following 'arguments' found, which should prove that 'Latvia was not occupied by the USSR':

1. “Anyone who follows political news from this region closely (or even remotely) knows that there is currently a heavy return to nationalism in these three countries, bordering sometimes on Nazism and Holocaust denial”
2. “The heart of the matter here is the Nuremberg style denaturalization laws and the right of the newly independent Baltic States to deprive citizenship from their ex-soviet citizens. The view expressed in this article is the one promoted by the Museum of the Occupation of Latvia, a propaganda tool of the Latvian government”. (diff) - Most probably, P.Krohn also find Britannica and Encarta “propaganda tools” of Western imperialism.
3. About the present article it is said: ”In its present form it only serves as a tool for ethnic POV-pushing and associated hate speech.”
4. “Until 1991 most of the worlds governments saw the incorporation of the Baltic States into the Soviet Union as legal.” - which is obviously false: compare intro of Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945
5. And there are said to be “also sources that show that Latvia and Latvians voluntarily joined the Soviet Union in 1940.” -- Curiously, none have been cited so far! Constanz - Talk 10:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thus, if User:Grafikm fr says that (diff) “while some sort of consensus is not reached, the tag has to stay as a warning for a casual reader” I'm afraid that the tag will remain forever, since how can we achieve a consensus which would include opinions based on original research, straw man arguments or propaganda ideas of And you are lynching Negroes type? How is it possible to reconcile Flat Earth Society members with a modern viewpoint? Constanz - Talk 10:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Evidence presented by {your user name}

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.

Evidence presented by {your user name}

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.